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Java Has Failed! - Programming (4) - Nairaland

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Re: Java Has Failed! by sbucareer(f): 5:28pm On Mar 28, 2006

I would like people with heavy PHP skills and experience to disseminate some of their skills here by providing a comprehensive tutorial on PHP, covering web application development and Standalone application. The tutorial should not have a pointer to a website of PHP tutorial any pointers would be on how to download all the necessary tools needed to write, compile and run PHP.

If you were wondering on a Java tutorial, go to this thread where gbengaijot start a thread on Java.

Come back here and tell us if Java Has Failed and which programming language Rocks

Re: Java Has Failed! by alexis(m): 9:04pm On Mar 28, 2006
I could start one for php but honestly - I don't have the time, php is so wide. Can you assist, I can treat certain topics and you can treat others. Any suggestions?
Re: Java Has Failed! by sbucareer(f): 12:45am On Mar 29, 2006

You see I am a Java advocate, would contradict myself if I begin to teach PHP. If I do that I will not be able to defend Java properly. I can teach PHP like the way I teach Java but I have some irritating feeling about PHP as it is a very un-typed language with little or no usage in Enterprise Application development and cause maintenance issues.

PHP is not modular and lack API support like C/C++. I love C and code every day in C, but for a new beginner C would be virtually impossible because no support for API like java that is why I advocate for Java and Java is going places.

Some PHP gurus in the house help alexis, or have you lot denied PHP now?

Re: Java Has Failed! by alexis(m): 9:17am On Mar 29, 2006
If you code in C, PHP is just like C, it's a loosely typed language but when you get into the gig you will like it. Modular - yes and no, check out PHP 5 and see what it can do.

Still waiting for help
Re: Java Has Failed! by sbucareer(f): 9:58am On Mar 29, 2006

Ok, start the thread and do all the necessary introduction and tools to use, I will help you with the tutorial focusing on developing application using PHP. I will also help with web application.

Re: Java Has Failed! by africanboy(m): 10:31am On Mar 29, 2006
ok some things r happening
Re: Java Has Failed! by alexis(m): 2:27pm On Mar 29, 2006
ok I will. I will start tonight, thanks for supporting.
Re: Java Has Failed! by pojutime(m): 3:59pm On Mar 29, 2006
guys, keep it up.

but is the "battle" between php and java?
Re: Java Has Failed! by alexis(m): 4:38pm On Mar 29, 2006
There is no battle - we want to set a tutorial section where people can learn php that's all.
Re: Java Has Failed! by africanboy(m): 10:58am On Mar 31, 2006
funny that it mostly php and java guys that want tutorials for everyone, it almost like they are on a crusade on something - like the english crusades to win back the holy land.

am more interested in technology that can easily help develop weblications - i think i might follow up the php tutorial.
Re: Java Has Failed! by pojutime(m): 12:47pm On Mar 31, 2006
africanboy:

funny that it mostly php and java guys that want tutorials for everyone, it almost like they are on a crusade on something - like the english crusades to win back the holy land.

am more interested in technology that can easily help develop weblications - i think i might follow up the php tutorial.

don't php and java allow one to develop "weblications"?
Re: Java Has Failed! by alexis(m): 3:18pm On Mar 31, 2006
Guys,

I haven't started because I haven't had the time during the week. good thing tomorrow is saturday - I will introduce php and put out tutorials on how to install a php, mysql environment on Microsh*t, Apple MAC and Unix (basically Linux).

Tomorrow then
Re: Java Has Failed! by africanboy(m): 3:33pm On Mar 31, 2006
sometimes i wonder whats up with the beef between java/php guys and microsoft?

alexis:

Men,

I haven't started because I haven't had the time during the week. good thing tomorrow is saturday - I will introduce php and put out tutorials on how to install a php, mysql environment on Microsh*t, Apple MAC and Unix (basically Linux).

Tomorrow then
Re: Java Has Failed! by alexis(m): 5:33pm On Mar 31, 2006
No beef african boy - no beef at all.
Re: Java Has Failed! by IG: 8:32pm On Apr 04, 2006
I believe there is a lot of truth in the failure of java. Despite being a fan of Java I must state the following
The dotNET platform also called the CLI (common language infrastructure) offers you much more than java offers.

-Java is not the only platform independent programming language. C# on mono can run on almost all known OS'es
-Calling native code in java is extremely horrible, C# allows you to call native code without generating any dirty header files
-Java is not open source , C# has up to two open source implementations (mono & pnet)
-The Java platform restricts you to a single programming language while dotNET gives you a choice of serveral programming languages.
-C#/CIL gives you serveral features like delegates and multiple inheritence that are not available in Java.
-Everybody knows that java is extremely slow and will never run as fast enough for many computing needs

The power of the CIL can be seen in the mono platform where a whole platform is implemented in C#. The mono C# compiler and all other related tools were written in C#.
checkout www.mono-project.com

The whole thing shouldn't be about Microsoft vs SUN but about good technology and dirty technology.

We ought not to be embarrased about appreciating the truth
and obtaining it from wherever it comes from, even if it
comes from races distant and nations different from us.
Nothing should be dearer to the seeker of truth than the
truth itself and their is no deterioration of the truth,
nor belittling either of one who speaks it or conveys it.

Abu Yusuf Al-Kindi (9th century cryptanalyst and philosopher).
Re: Java Has Failed! by IG: 8:34pm On Apr 04, 2006
I believe there is a lot of truth in the failure of java. Despite being a fan of Java I must state the following
The dotNET platform also called the CLI (common language infrastructure) offers you much more than java offers.

-Java is not the only platform independent programming language. C# on mono can run on almost all known OS'es
-Calling native code in java is extremely horrible, C# allows you to call native code without generating any dirty header files
-Java is not open source , C# has up to two open source implementations (mono & pnet)
-The Java platform restricts you to a single programming language while dotNET gives you a choice of serveral programming languages.
-C#/CIL gives you serveral features like delegates and multiple inheritence that are not available in Java.
-Everybody knows that java is extremely slow and will never run as fast enough for many computing needs

The power of the CIL can be seen in the mono platform where a whole platform is implemented in C#. The mono C# compiler and all other related tools were written in C#.
checkout www.mono-project.com

The whole thing shouldn't be about Microsoft vs SUN but about good technology and dirty technology.

We ought not to be embarrased about appreciating the truth
and obtaining it from wherever it comes from, even if it
comes from races distant and nations different from us.
Nothing should be dearer to the seeker of truth than the
truth itself and their is no deterioration of the truth,
nor belittling either of one who speaks it or conveys it.

Abu Yusuf Al-Kindi (9th century cryptanalyst and philosopher).
Re: Java Has Failed! by sbucareer(f): 5:56pm On Apr 07, 2006

Alexis, I'm still waiting for you to start the comprehensive PHP tutorial introduction so we can co-author the lessons.
Re: Java Has Failed! by alexis(m): 9:33pm On Apr 07, 2006
sbu,

I am busy man - just checking in all week. I promise to start something tomorrow.
Re: Java Has Failed! by skima(m): 10:49pm On Apr 08, 2006
I will offer support PHP tutorial!

Lets make it 12-04-2006 on wednesday. I want to clean up projects at hand.
Re: Java Has Failed! by Paps: 11:57pm On Apr 10, 2006
my dear frien java represents a new revolutoion of programming. U c u luk at it form a view point of a builder and wat u dont seem to get is that any language must be able to trransform easily into user understandable form. Users are not interested in wat goes on behing a language they want something that works and easily understood!, JAVA has lived to expectation. Try build a web page wit wateva language that has not failed you and see wat hapns, angry
Re: Java Has Failed! by Bossman(m): 6:19pm On Apr 11, 2006
I am a consultant in this field, and have been for a while. I would just like to add that, every programming language has its advantages and disadvantages. I have also developed in several languages, but have been doing so with Java over the past 7 years. As far as developing enterprise level J2EE (Servlets, JSP, EJB, etc.)web applications, Java has been very successful, and will continue to be. The proliferation of frameworks (struts, hibernate, and so on, ) and usage of design patterns will only add to the advantages of using Java for web development. Yes, Java has definitely not done well in the area of GUI development at all. Also, it will make no sense to use Java for data processing while COBOL is there. Java is also not suitable for the rapid development of standalone apps., when the microsoft tools are out there. The bottom line, every programming language and tool has it's uses and advantages.
Re: Java Has Failed! by africanboy(m): 6:30pm On Apr 11, 2006
i was interested in java once i first heard of it, but with the ruckus caused by "java developers" i met about "java or die" and their inability to practically prove to me to switch, i lost faith.

@bossman, u have a very strong point.

@paps, you were saying?

@IG, would love to meet you man.

Many Java/PHP guys usually bash the company and not the technology, stating that we MS based developers are placing our future in the hands of a company that could turn around at anyime. Hey, the company is made up of humans too.

@sbu, how are you?
Re: Java Has Failed! by IG: 8:09pm On Apr 11, 2006
africanboy you can talk to me on this address; aig@linuxmail.org
I've seen your blog and liked It's realistic nature.
Re: Java Has Failed! by Paps: 10:19pm On Apr 11, 2006
I shall say no more on the failure you obviously have had a bad experience with the language
Re: Java Has Failed! by africanboy(m): 1:32pm On Apr 12, 2006
IG, thanks. Havnt been able to update the blog in a long while. ok, will mail you
Re: Java Has Failed! by lordNebu(m): 1:30pm On Apr 24, 2006
africanboy
sorry but java is actually a write once and run anyway language, its just that to run on different platforms u need to get the JRE(java runtime environment ) for that platform, java uses the virtual machine concept, so that is that, u sound like a web programmer or at most a c++ person, welll try writing a c++ prog in windows and run on a linux sys, my dear u will have to rewrite the whole code for it to tun on linux, ok am a new java convert and with java most concepts i tried to learn in c++ with no success are as easy as abc , java hasn't faileD.

GOD BLESS THE NAIRA,LONG LIVE THE JAVA COMMUNITY AND PEACE TO THE MIDDLE EAST, grin
Re: Java Has Failed! by banks36200(m): 2:19pm On Jun 08, 2006
My friend Even God said my People perish 4 lack of knowlege, It's very obvious u r just an ignorant dude, I'm a heavy j2ee programmer and architect, also a professional .NET programmer, wat u shld av said is Java is not a gud option for developing urgently needed applications because of its complexity



a word is enuf for d wise
Re: Java Has Failed! by clocky(m): 5:18pm On Jun 08, 2006
All you people beefing java are just plain lazy in your brains. for crying out loud how can someone calling himself a programmer say java is difficult to learn and yet the same person would recommend c/c++. Microsoft stole Java syntax for c# in other to encourage Java programers to migrate to .net but it failed.

Contrary to what majority of u folks here have said. Java is the Defacto langugue for Enterprise Software Developemnt. I am not talkiing about some lame ass web development project .

And guess what , Java programmers are the highest paid and the most sort after developers in the industry today. just check out www.monster.com or www.jobserve.com type in java or php or c# or vb in the search box and see the number of jobs returned and the average salary and compare
Keys reasons for java's success.

Open source community-
Javas open source community is the most vibrant and this community have contributed in no small way in the advancement of software engineering and development. It is the java community that for example introduced Test driven development, Object Relational Mapping, Invesion of control, Model view Controlller programming, Aspect oreinted programming etc.

Software development is not just about seating on a damn computer and coding away without the application of serious thought as to how the software would be used ,maintained easily or tested. This are the fundamental issues in software engineering and Java as a langugue has contributed in no small way in addressing these issues.

Now other langugues have copying these best practices and yet you people say Java has failed.

Agreed learning the various technologies on offer in Java can be really daunting and frustrating a times and i am talking from personal expreince but i do not agree that the languague itself is difficult.

Agreed you might not want to use java if you are just developing some toy project and all . However if you are into enterprise solutions and are looking for something Non Micro$oft then Java it is. And this is exactly what makes java so attractrive

My Advice,
If you are starting out programming and you want to have a career as a sofware engineer . start by learning Java, then C# and probably VB. If at any point in time you want to hack up some quick and dirty web app you can use a variety of reasources online and learn PHP this wouldnt take you more than a week its that easy to learn and use.

If you are already a PHP programmer and are open minded, it would do u good if u learnt Java and c# to be a more complete programmer and to have access to more jobs or solve more complex problems

If you are a PHP programmer and not open minded well good luck to u.

If you just want to play around with programming learn PHP and have fun while it lasts.


I rest my case,
Re: Java Has Failed! by Bossman(m): 6:59pm On Jun 08, 2006
I would also like to add that the #1 language used in colleges to teach Software Engineering is Java. I don't see how we can consider the most popular programming language over the last 10 years a failure.

Every language has it's uses, and most companies will use a blend if that's what it takes. But for enterprise level web applications, Java has proven to be the most suitable and the most successful.
Re: Java Has Failed! by alexis(m): 10:44pm On Jun 10, 2006
Clocky - point well noted.

I am sure no body is comparing PHP and JAVA, in my view, it is faster and simplier to write code that will connect to a database in php than in Java.

And you know that there will be more bugs in a 100 line code than in a 10 line code. Java rocks but PHP is pretty good.
Re: Java Has Failed! by sbucareer(f): 11:48pm On Jun 23, 2006


Is Java still alive? Well I will leave it to you professionals to decide. If you asked me Java is becoming complex and difficult to those trying to break into Java with the advent of Tiger, Mustang and now Dolphin.

Some say once you can program one language you can program all. I believe it and still think that Java is easy to learn and is still very much alive

Re: Java Has Failed! by darth: 5:40pm On Jul 18, 2006
Hey are there any educated people on this forum.

If you are not informed about a topic please do some research before u post rather than make a fool of yourself online.

If a program does not run both linux and windows it's due to bad programming practises and not the java language itself, I use java on a fairly regular basis and i know someone who has actually done a test for code portability that ran without hitches.

P.S: The only reason Microsoft came out with .NET was because they were TERRIFIED of java's potential to displace plain VB

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