Why Christians Shouldn't Settle For Anything Less Than Spiritual Perfection

It's because being perfect as God is brings God the greatest glory, therefore to settle for anything short of that would amount to depriving God of some glory which was due Him.

Jesus said:

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matthew 5:48 (KJV)

Therefore it is the Will of God that all those who walk with Him be perfect as He is, as this was also the instruction God gave to Abraham His servant, prior to the coming of Christ:

Genesis 17:1 (KJV)

And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Job God's servant was also said to be perfect in His ways, hence God using Him to get much glory in the sight of Satan, as this was one the attributes of Job God proudly showcased before him.

Job 1:8 (KJV)

And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Hence being perfect as God is, is what brings God the greatest glory in the sight of the enemy, that's why it's God greatest desire that those of His are perfect as He is, for this is why God made man in the beginning.

The instances of men as Job in the Bible who were said to be perfect, also the Instruction God gave those of His to be perfect as He is, proves that It's possible and very realistic to be perfect in the sight of God, if it weren't, God wouldn't have required such of those who walked with him.

Unfortunately though, men, including those those claim to be of God have shown themselves overtime not to be willing to be perfect as God is and desires for man to be.

It is for this reason that they begin to throw up one flimsy excuse after another just to justify or excuse their unwillingness to be so, such as, "no one is perfect" or can be perfect.

They'd rather settle for spiritual mediocrity or even continue in their ways of iniquity often using the excuse of the grace of God to justify themselves.

Even those who proudly boast of being perfectionist in other areas of their lives, begin to look for flimsy excuses when it comes to God and spirituality, as they're not willing to be perfect as God is and had instructed His own to be.

What makes it really disheartening, is the lives are cannot be used to bring God much glory even the kind of glory He deserves.

That's why Jesus did everything He could to ensure that His disciples did not settle for anything less than spiritual perfection, to ensure their lives brought God the kind of glory God deserved. That was the whole essence of His teachings, even to make them perfect as God is. Hence their lives were able to bring God as much glory as it did in those days.

That's shows why the lives of today Christians has not been able to bring God as much glory as it did in those days. It's because most Christians have decided settled for spiritual mediocrity or even worse as many have continued to work iniquity, hence God is not able to use their lives to bring Him the kind of glory which was due Him as He did with the Apostles.

If we really want God to use us as He did with the apostles in those days to His own glory, we must stop settling for anything less than spiritual perfection, because that's the only way our lives would be able to bring God the kind of glory their lives brought Him.

God bless.

A Nairaland recently asked via a thread why today's Christians were not able to do greater works as Jesus said believers would do.

My response was that greater works were coming...

The reason I said that was because I was one of those God was going to use to glorify Himself to that extent. And the reason that's going to happen was because i decided not to settle for spiritual mediocrity, but i'm proudly a spiritual perfectionist to the core! That is, I desire to be every single thing God deserves for me to be and nothing less because I can't afford to deprive Him of any glory which was due Him.

This has got me seeking more, striving more, desiring more, sacrificing more, etc., than most do these days for the sake of the Kingdom of God, and consequently this has made to me to be given more, which has distinguished me significantly.

When I first came to NL in late 2018, God used me to convert a well-known NL atheist in the first few months of my being here. And many NL Christians were jealous thinking it was a fluke or just a coincidence, unknown to them, It didn't just fall from the sky, but I had already paid the price and given God everything, even as much as the apostles gave to Him, so it was only inevitable that I would be distinguished from those who hadn't given God as much. That's why my life was able to bring God glory to that extent.

That illustrates the extent to which God could be glorified in our lives, when we do not settle for less, but to be all that He desires and deserves for us to be. Because at the time, such a development was unheard of in this forum. Even the NL atheists who were hitherto very confident of themselves, started feeling jittery because it was something they weren't used to.

I had overheard them bragging when it used to be the other way around, about how NL atheists were the ones converting NL Christians, so it seemed their beliefs and confidence had been hit hard as never before, that they didn't even know how to react. They just couldn't believe their eyes. Some even doubted and debunked it as false and a fabricated conversion, that they out of desperation went in search of the person, and told her that someone else trying to use her moniker to spread lies, until she confirmed it herself, then they knew that this wasn't just make belief but the reality.

The foundation of atheism in Nairaland was seriously rattled at the time, and only God knows how much effect that had here in Truth, and how many atheists and souls were also converted as a result, as the impression God gives me is that much more lives had been impacted positively and blessed by my efforts here in Nairaland than I was aware of. Yet at the time, my appointed time hadn't even come yet, so that was just a foretaste of things to come when that happened.

Last year, after God told me my time had come, things that proved impossible even then, have now become the norm, as souls were being saved more than it's ever been since I came, demons were being cast out, the oppressed and depressed were being delivered, lives were being transformed, even the faith of true believers were being strengthened, and this is not speaking of somewhere else but right here in NL.

And with God has revealed to me, this was only the beginning, because the extent to which God intends to use me is far above and beyond anything that already happening now.

If this was about me, I wouldn't be sharing this secret but would keep it to myself, but I'm sharing it because it's my greatest desire that God gets the kind of glory He deserves from as many men as possible, not just with me and the other few who've given Him as much.

So if you want to your life to bring God as much glory as my life, or the lives of the apostles, or better still, the life of Master Jesus had done, do not settle for anything less than spiritual perfection, and I assure you that it would only be a matter of time, as you'd eventually be able to achieve likewise.

But if you settle for any less, the Truth is that your life wouldn't be any more different from the lives of most Christians of today, which are not able to bring God much glory as the lives of those of us who do not settle for any less than spiritual perfection.

God bless.

Jay jay O.

Lalasticlala

too many to swallow.




ARE YOU A GOSPEL ARTIST? CHECK MY SIGNATURE

CodeTemplar:
Jay jay O.

Meaning?

bmdmix3:
too many to swallow.




ARE YOU A GOSPEL ARTIST? CHECK MY SIGNATURE

A times you need such for your own good.

jesusjnr2020:
A Nairaland recently asked via a thread why today's Christians were not able to do greater works as Jesus said believers would do.

My response was that greater works were coming...

The reason I said that was because I was one of those God was going to use to glorify Himself to that extent. And the reason that's going to happen was because i didn't settle for spiritual mediocrity, but i'm proudly a spiritual perfectionist to the core! That is, I desire to be every single thing God deserves for me to be and nothing less because I can't afford to deprive Him of any glory which was due Him.

This has got me seeking more, striving more, desiring more, sacrificing more, etc., than most do these days for the sake of the Kingdom of God, and consequently this has made to me to be given more, which has distinguished me significantly.

When I first came to NL, God used me to convert a well-known NL atheist in the first few months of my being here. And many NL Christians were jealous thinking it was a fluke or just a coincidence, unknown to them, It didn't just fall from the sky, but I had already paid the price and given God everything, even as much as the apostles gave to Him, so it was only inevitable that I would be distinguished from those who haven't given God as much. That's why my life was able to bring God glory to that extent.

That illustrates the extent to which God could be glorified in our lives, when we do not settle for less, but to be all that He desires and deserves for us to be. Because at the time, such a development was unheard of in this forum. Even the NL atheists who were hitherto very confident of themselves, started feeling jittery because it was something they weren't used to.

I had overheard them bragging when it used to be the other way around, about how NL atheists were the ones converting NL Christians, so it seemed their beliefs and confidence had been hit as never before, that they didn't even know how to react. They just couldn't believe their eyes. Some even doubted and debunked it as false and a fabricated conversion, that they out of desperation went in search of the person, and told her that someone else trying to use her moniker to spread lies, until she confirmed it herself, then they knew that this wasn't just make belief but the reality.

The foundation of atheism in Nairaland was seriously rattled at the time, and only God knows how much effect that had here in Truth, and how many atheists and souls were also converted as a result, as the impression God gives me is that much more lives had been impacted positively and blessed by my efforts here in Nairaland than what I was aware of. Yet at the time, my appointed time hadn't even come yet, so that was just a foretaste of things to come when that happened.

Last year, after God told me my time had come, things that proved impossible even then, have now become the norm, as souls were being saved more than it's ever been since I came, demons were being cast out, the oppressed and depressed were being delivered, lives were being transformed, even the faith of true believers were being strengthened, and this is not speaking of somewhere else but right here in NL.

And with God has revealed to me, this was only the beginning, because the extent to which God intends to use me is far above and beyond anything that already happening now.

If this was about me, I wouldn't be sharing this secret but would keep it to myself, but I'm sharing it because it's my greatest desire that God gets the kind of glory He deserves from as many men as possible, not just with me and the other few who've given Him as much.

So if you want to your life to bring God as much glory as my life, or the lives of the apostles, or better still, the life of Master Jesus had done, do not settle for anything less than spiritual perfection, and I assure you that it would only be a matter of time, as you'd eventually be able to achieve likewise.

But if you settle for any less, the Truth is that your life wouldn't be any more different from the lives of most Christians of today, which are not able to bring God much glory as the lives of those of us who do not settle for any less than spiritual perfection.

God bless.

Spiritual perfection. Do you mean sanctification? Are the two the same thing?

jesusjnr2020:
Meaning?

You're being trolled by a caring brother.

BRATISLAVA:


You're being trolled by a caring brother.

Lol!

No be small caring brother.

He only cares about one thing in this world and it's not me.

BTW, please give me some time to respond to your other comment.

Thanks and God bless.

jesusjnr2020:
Lol!

No be small caring brother.

He only cares about one thing in this world and it's not me.

BTW, please give me some time to respond to your other comment.

Thanks and God bless.

Sure thing!

I am very much open to learning on that your comment on perfection, because I've had issues with people who refuse perfection and embrace imperfection because they "can't be more holy than God".

BRATISLAVA:


Spiritual perfection. Do you mean sanctification? Are the two the same thing w?

Not really. I mean spiritual perfection by the obedience of God's Word.

After Jesus gave us some commandments He said, "therefore be ye perfect as your Heavenly who is perfect."

That's the reason He gave us those commandments, because the Word of God actually depicts the Ways of God, so by keeping it, it makes us to become like God.

This is the purpose God made man in the beginning, to have a creature that would be like Him both in appearance and also in deeds.

So whenever man obeys the Word of God, he fulfills the purpose why God made man in the beginning. That's why the devil would do anything or go to any length to prevent that from happening, because the last thing he wants is for God's purpose to be fulfilled in any man's life, he knows that's the only way God can get glory before him as He did in the instance of Job.

Sanctification on the other hand, I believe is God's part. What God does after man has done his own part which is to obey God's Word.

Hence Jesus said, while He was praying to God for His disciples, "sanctify them with Thy Truth" after saying, "they have kept thy Word". John 17:17

The Word God gave to Jesus to teach men was to make them perfect as He is, so whenever man keeps them, they accomplish that purpose.

And "Thy Word" implied in this case is not the law of Moses but the Word God to Jesus to give to men, for the law of Moses cannot make man perfect but only righteous. Hence the Word God gave to Jesus was an upgrade to the law of Moses, therefore it requires much more to keep it, hence by keeping it, man attains a higher level of righteousness which is perfection.

That's why the rich young man who came to Jesus could keep the law of Moses to be saved, but when it came to that of Jesus which would make him perfect, he fell short. Matthew 19:16-24

This is the same Word that Jesus said His disciples had kept, so that meant they had accomplished the purpose for which God gave men that Word which was to make them perfect as He is.

So that's what I mean by spiritual perfection, because those Words, "they are Spirit and they are Life", so by keeping them one attains spiritual perfection. John 6:63

Although it's not easy to be honest, but with God it is possible.

And when someone is truly willing to keep them, with God's help, they'd become obedient.

When they become obedient, they've achieved the purpose for which God sent that Word, which means that God would definitely confirm that achievement in their lives with works (signs and wonders) to serve as an example to other men.

Apologies for the delay, i knew it would be a lengthy one, as I wanted to be as clear as possible, so I had to take my time.

God bless.

jesusjnr2020:
Not really. I mean spiritual perfection by the obedience of God's Word.

After Jesus gave us some commandments He said, "therefore be ye perfect as your Heavenly who is perfect."

That's the reason He gave us those commandments, because the Word of God actually depicts the Ways of God, so by keeping it, it makes us to become like God.

This is the purpose God made man in the beginning, to have a creature that would be like Him both in appearance and also in deeds.

So whenever man obeys the Word of God, he fulfills the purpose why God made man in the beginning. That's why the devil would do anything or go to any length to prevent that from happening, because the last thing he wants is for God's purpose to be fulfilled in any man's life, he knows that's the only way God can get glory before him as He did in the instance of Job.

Sanctification on the other hand, I believe is God's part. What God does after man has done his own part which is to obey God's Word.

Hence Jesus said, while He was praying to God for His disciples, "sanctify them with Thy Truth" after saying, "they have kept thy Word". John 17:17

The Word God gave to Jesus to teach men was to make them perfect as He is, so whenever man keeps them, they accomplish that purpose.

And "Thy Word" implied in this case is not the law of Moses but the Word God to Jesus to give to men, for the law of Moses cannot make man perfect but only righteous. Hence the Word God gave to Jesus was an upgrade to the law of Moses, therefore it requires much more to keep it, hence by keeping it, man attains a higher level of righteousness which is perfection.

That's why the rich young man who came to Jesus could keep the law of Moses to be saved, but when it came to that of Jesus which would make him perfect, he fell short. Matthew 19:16-24

This is the same Word that Jesus said His disciples had kept, so that meant they had accomplished the purpose for which God gave men that Word which was to make them perfect as He is.

So that's what I mean by spiritual perfection, because those Words, "they are Spirit and they are Life", so by keeping them one attains spiritual perfection. John 6:63

Although it's not easy to be honest, but with God it is possible.

And when someone is truly willing to keep them, with God's help, they'd become obedient.

When they become obedient, they've achieved the purpose for which God sent that Word, which means that God would definitely confirm that achievement in their lives with works (signs and wonders) to serve as an example to other men.

Apologies for the delay, i knew it would be a lengthy one, as I wanted to be as clear as possible, so I had to take my time.

God bless.

I am learning from your response.

When I mentioned this keeping to the commandments and being "holy", a pastor attacked me that I'm being self-righteous and directed me to the book of Job.

Job was perfect in his reverence for God, to the point where he was atoning for the sins of his children in their absence. He thought he was too perfect and righteous and that was his sin, I was told.

The pastor made me understand that my acts of being perfect were filthy rags that didn't count for anything. And told me to look at the latter chapters of Job in which he realized that despite his self-righteousness he suffered more than others, and that it was still not good enough until he acknowledged that God was always going to be God.

It shocked me then. I even believed it. In retrospect, it angered me that nothing we do will ever be good enough or perfect enough for God. For some months afterwards, I did not even bother with trying to be a Christian because it didn't make sense, if God was calling me to Holiness, why couldn't I do things that He would find holy from my faith based on the Word? What was the basis of godly living, then?

I'm telling my experience because it may be what someone else has gone through and they may need some answers.

I still believe that God wants us to be perfect, no matter what. Otherwise there's no basis for living as a Christian. That is why I asked if it is sanctification or perfection.

I feel the perfection would come as a result of sanctification, to be in resonance with the Spirit of God to the point where you are counted as one with Him.

Open to further lessons on this.

God bless.

BRATISLAVA:


I am learning from your response.

When I mentioned this keeping to the commandments and being "holy", a pastor attacked me that I'm being self-righteous and directed me to the book of Job.

Job was perfect in his reverence for God, to the point where he was atoning for the sins of his children in their absence. He thought he was too perfect and righteous and that was his sin, I was told.

The pastor made me understand that my acts of being perfect were filthy rags that didn't count for anything. And told me to look at the latter chapters of Job in which he realized that despite his self-righteousness he suffered more than others, and that it was still not good enough until he acknowledged that God was always going to be God.

It shocked me then. I even believed it. In retrospect, it angered me that nothing we do will ever be good enough or perfect enough for God. For some months afterwards, I did not even bother with trying to be a Christian because it didn't make sense, if God was calling me to Holiness, why couldn't I do things that He would find holy from my faith based on the Word? What was the basis of godly living, then?

I'm telling my experience because it may be what someone else has gone through and they may need some answers.

I still believe that God wants us to be perfect, no matter what. Otherwise there's no basis for living as a Christian. That is why I asked if it is sanctification or perfection.

I feel the perfection would come as a result of sanctification, to be in resonance with the Spirit of God to the point where you are counted as one with Him.

Open to further lessons on this.

God bless.

Wow! Very similar experience to what @Nuttella shared on the other thread, only that hers hadn't gotten to that point because she was able to see in time that it was false and not of God before it could do any real damage.

Only God knows how many who hunger and thirst after righteousness in obedience to God's Word, have been discouraged and misled by such false and misleading doctrines being taught by such blind leaders.

I'm really grateful to God because I just do things a times, and I don't even know that I was being led of the Spirit until things like this begins to unfold.

Thanks a lot for sharing as well, I believe it would be a blessing to someone else.

The reason I don't like to focus on sanctification much is because I consider it to be God's part, and I think it's very dangerous to focus on just that as many do, because that alone has not and will never save anyone, as everyone has that available to them, but God would only reward those who do their own part which is the obedience of His Word.

It's only after doing their own part of obedience, which is what it actually means to bear fruits, that God would now come and purge (sanctify) them so they could bear more fruits. But those who bear no fruits of obedience, He would cut off them off... John 15:2, 6; Luke 13:7

Hence I'd rather focus on the obedience of God's Word than sanctification.

God bless.

jesusjnr2020:
Wow! Very similar experience to what @Nuttella shared on the other thread, only that hers hadn't gotten to that point because she was able to see that it was false before it could do any damage.

Only God knows how many who hunger and thirst after righteousness in obedience to God's Word, have been discouraged and misled by such false and misleading doctrines being taught by such blind leaders.

I'm really grateful to God because I just do things a times, and I don't even know that I was being led of the Spirit until things like this begins to unfold.

Thanks a lot for sharing as well, I believe it would be a blessing to someone else.

The reason I don't like to focus on sanctification much is because I consider it to be God's part, and I think it's very dangerous to focus on just that as many do, because that alone has not and will never save anyone, as everyone has that available to them, but God would only reward those who do their own part which is the obedience of His Word.

It's only after doing their own part of obedience, which is what it actually means to bear fruits, that God would now come and purge (sanctify) them so they could bear more fruits. But those who bear no fruits of obedience, He would cut off them off... John 15:2, 6; Luke 13:7

Hence I'd rather focus on the obedience of God's Word than sanctification.

God bless.

This is a good perspective and has scriptural back up.

On sanctification, it should be important because it is the only way that people stop trying to justify their sins in the name of grace and trying to "trick" God each time they sin by claiming they are always going to be filthy sinners and then committing the exact sin and believing they must be forgiven.

I think it comes from within the Christian first. It is first a decision to live above the expectations of the world, as God wants us to.

I don't know much about it, but I feel it's important and something we should all consciously strive towards. God will perfect it when we put in the effort.

The perfect Christian Life is possible. Grace message has made us think it isn't.

Thanks.

BRATISLAVA:

He thought he was too perfect and righteous and that was his sin, I was told.

Here is where I contest with everyone, he did not think that he was too perfect and righteous, for we know when we have done the good and the evil!

Thus, when we have done no evil, we must cry out that we have done no evil, (if it is True, I add)

Which is why you see Abimelech in Genesis 20:4 cry out in innocence, same for Lawyer Saul/Paul when God visited him.

Thus, that was not Job's sin, his sin was that he forgot his place and broke his bounds in raising himself (pride) too high before God, though God understood that it was because of his pain that he made this error!

BRATISLAVA:

The pastor made me understand that my acts of being perfect were filthy rags that didn't count for anything.

Anything that is Truly Right and Good is Right and Good which is why Rahab obtained the Grace of God, even though she was a prostitute and an Outsider as we stupidly say today. Joshua 2;9-14

However, there is a "Righteousness" which people say is "righteousness" that is filthy eg "Slap me, I slap you God no go vex"! "If you cheat on me, I will do my own back etc,

Are any of these "Righteousness" before The Lord? Are these not filthy?

But did The Lord not Applaud David for thinking to build a House for Him? Or was he not pleased with the guy who killed the Adulterous couple in Israel?

Consider and think which of these is righteousness?

And which is acceptable before The Lord!

Dtruthspeaker:


Here is where I contest with everyone, he did not think that he was too perfect and righteous, for we know when we have done the good and the evil!

Thus, when we have done no evil, we must cry out that we have done no evil, (if it is True, I add)

Which is why you see Abimelech in Genesis 20:4 cry out in innocence, same for Lawyer Saul/Paul when God visited him.

Thus, that was not Job's sin, his sin was that he forgot his place and broke his bounds in raising himself (pride) too high before God, though God understood that it was because of his pain that he made this error!



Anything that is Truly Right and Good is Right and Good which is why Rahab obtained the Grace of God, even though she was a prostitute and an Outsider as we stupidly say today. Joshua 2;9-14

However, there is a "Righteousness" which people say is "righteousness" that is filthy eg "Slap me, I slap you God no go vex"! "If you cheat on me, I will do my own back etc,

Are any of these "Righteousness" before The Lord? Are these not filthy?

But did The Lord not Applaud David for thinking to build a House for Him? Or was he not pleased with the guy who killed the Adulterous couple in Israel?

Consider and think which of these is righteousness?

And which is acceptable before The Lord!

By righteousness, I mean acting in accordance with God's words from the Bible, not man's interpretation of things like slap me I slap you back. That is not righteousness. That is sense wisdom.

For instance, don't steal the Bible commands, so by all means you do not steal. And if you say that you've been righteous and not stolen, how is that filthiness? That is what transpired when the pastor said I was being self-righteous.

I don't see any sin Job committed. Which pride did you see him commit? He was just going to be punished either way. To what end, when there were many imperfect men like his friends to punish? I don't know. Maybe so that today we will have discussions on it.

BRATISLAVA:

By righteousness, I mean acting in accordance with God's words from the Bible, not man's interpretation of things like slap me I slap you back. That is not righteousness. That is sense wisdom.

That is the Only Place where True and Genuine Righteousness is Found and there is no second.

God of One!

All others are Fake, Horrible, Filthy and Wicked!

BRATISLAVA:

For instance, don't steal the Bible commands, so by all means you do not steal. And if you say that you've been righteous and not stolen, how is that filthiness? That is what transpired when the pastor said I was being self-righteous.

Respectfully, when a Person Obeys The Commands of God, Righteousness is clearly not in dispute nor in issue but when you hear "Self-righteous" ha, now that is a "righteousness as determined by Self, and not One in Accordance with God's Word.

Therefore it is not a "True and Genuine Righteousness, but wickedness and evil being mouthed to be as though it was Right and Good!

BRATISLAVA:

I don't see any sin Job committed. Which pride did you see him commit? He was just going to be punished either way. To what end, when there were many imperfect men like his friends to punish? I don't know. Maybe so that today we will have discussions on it.

After this opened Job his mouth, and cursed his day.

2 And Job spake, and said,

3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.

4 Let that day be darkness; Let Not God Regard It from above, neither let the light shine upon it....

Eliphaz beautiful answer, though he failed to Counter Job after giving this beautiful answer,

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?"

This is the offence of wrongful elevation (Pride) and he left his border for as The Lord answered, IS HE TO CONTEND WITH THE ALMIGHTY THAT HE SHALL INSTRUCT HIM? IS IT HIS PLACE TO REPROVE GOD, (His Creator)? JOB 40:1

Did Job not Admit his Guilt in answering "I am vile" and Stupid "I will lay mine hand upon my mouth" (Job 40:4) and "wherefore I abhor (hate) myself and repent in dust and ashes." Job 42:6.

Dtruthspeaker:


That is the Only Place where True and Genuine Righteousness is Found and there is no second.

God of One!

All others are Fake, Horrible, Filthy and Wicked!



Respectfully, when a Person Obeys The Commands of God, Righteousness is clearly not in dispute nor in issue but when you hear "Self-righteous" ha, now that is a "righteousness as determined by Self, and not One in Accordance with God's Word.

Therefore it is not a "True and Genuine Righteousness, but wickedness and evil being mouthed to be as though it was Right and Good!



After this opened Job his mouth, and cursed his day.

2 And Job spake, and said,

3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.

4 Let that day be darkness; Let Not God Regard It from above, neither let the light shine upon it....

Eliphaz beautiful answer, though he failed to Counter Job after giving this beautiful answer,

"Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?"

This is the offence of wrongful elevation (Pride) and he left his border for as The Lord answered, IS HE TO CONTEND WITH THE ALMIGHTY THAT HE SHALL INSTRUCT HIM? IS IT HIS PLACE TO REPROVE GOD, (His Creator)? JOB 40:1

Did Job not Admit his Guilt in answering "I am vile" and Stupid "I will lay mine hand upon my mouth" (Job 40:4) and "wherefore I abhor (hate) myself and repent in dust and ashes." Job 42:6.

How can you and him tell what is self-righteousness from my example? Aren't you both judgemental then, when you also cannot be righteous enough to judge another?

Self-righteousness is when you did not obey any commandment to do something you feel is good and you feel good about, basically your moral compass. When you are obedient to a commandment, then you are righteous in it.

And there is nothing wrong in saying you were obedient and thus righteous. What else will you bring into rememberance before God? Is it the filthy rags ? Or mock humility?

As for Job, his suffering did not come as a result of pride. It was in his suffering he was pushed to say what he did. Was he not walking before God perfectly, as God testified Himself of him, until his afflictions began? Was it all not a test?

BRATISLAVA:

How can you and him tell what is self-righteousness from my example?

You have said it, Righteousness is All that is in Accordance with God's word" No More, though there can not be any that can be More Righteous than God, but surely Less than God's word Will be Unrighteousness!

BRATISLAVA:

Self-righteousness is when you did not obey any commandment to do something you feel is good and you feel good about, basically your moral compass

Therefore, you, and not God is being the determinant of "righteousness" as I said earlier!

Dtruthspeaker:


You have said it, Righteousness is All that is in Accordance with God's word" No More, though there can not be any that can be More Righteous than God, but surely Less than God's word Will be Unrighteousness!

That you believe he is right, and there's no other way is interesting.

From my example, what was unrighteous and self righteous there?

BRATISLAVA:


That you believe he is right, and there's no other way is interesting.

From my example, what was unrighteous and self righteous there?

Here, The Highest and The Greatest has Already Set and Determined for his creation, the man, that Stealing is Unright!

Therefore, it is not in consideration when a man still repeats, again, What God has Already Set, that stealing is unright! As if he said he is the first and Originator of it

And therefore, by his authority and power, he is setting it that stealing is unright!

No! Man did not and cannot determine nor set that which is Right.

Rather it is because God has Set All Righteousness, therefore man can warn each other that they must do Righteousness Already Pre-Set by God.

Neither can man make any Righteousness which is beyond and more and greater than the Righteousness which God has Already Pre-Set!

Therefore All Righteousness that fall within the the Commands of God, Belong to God and any that is claimed to be "righteous" but is outside the Commands of God, will be "Unrighteous"!

Dtruthspeaker:


Here, The Highest and The Greatest has Already Set and Determined for his creation, the man, that Stealing is Unright!

Therefore, it is not in consideration when a man still repeats, again, What God has Already Set, that stealing is unright! As if he said he is the first and Originator of it

And therefore, by his authority and power, he is setting it that stealing is unright!

No! Man did not and cannot determine nor set that which is Right.

Rather it is because God has Set All Righteousness, therefore man can warn each other that they must do Righteousness Already Pre-Set by God.

Neither can man make any Righteousness which is beyond and more and greater than the Righteousness which God has Already Pre-Set!

Then how is righteousness by the Bibles instruction/command self righteousness?

And if we cannot set what is right, why bother living as a Christian as that would be setting what is right?

Christians shouldn't have inferiority complexes about who they should be in Christ. The devil is the father of lies, one of which is doubt — the belief that we can never be righteous. Nobody is talking about being more righteous than God.

BRATISLAVA:


This is a good perspective and has scriptural back up.

On sanctification, it should be important because it is the only way that people stop trying to justify their sins in the name of grace and trying to "trick" God each time they sin by claiming they are always going to be filthy sinners and then committing the exact sin and believing they must be forgiven.

I think it comes from within the Christian first. It is first a decision to live above the expectations of the world, as God wants us to.

I don't know much about it, but I feel it's important and something we should all consciously strive towards. God will perfect it when we put in the effort.

The perfect Christian Life is possible. Grace message has made us think it isn't.

Thanks.

I think I now get what you meant by sanctification. It's what I consider to be man's part, so we're pretty much saying the same thing.

Btw, the idea that Job was punished is so erroneous and ignorant, because that would also mean Jesus was punished when He was driven into the wilderness and made suffer during His temptations. But it wasn't a punishment but a necessary process of the temptation of the devil which He overcame at the end, which was the same thing that happened as Job.

Moreover the opinion of God in this matter concerning Job is conclusive, so that of any man which contradicts it would be nothing but a lie, and this was God opinion concerning Job and why he suffered:

Job 2:3 (KJV)

And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

Job 42:7 (KJV) And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends.for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.

I think God's Word concerning Job should suffice speak for itself, so nothing else to add.

God bless.

Thhdd

BRATISLAVA:

And if we cannot set what is right, why bother living as a Christian as that would be setting what is right?

You do not set what is Right, God has Done that,

You Choose Out of the Available Options of Rightness As Set by God, which Rightness you would Do, if you want to do Genuine Rightness!

jesusjnr2020:
I think I now get what you meant by sanctification. It's what I consider to be man's part, so we're pretty much saying the same thing.

Btw, the idea that Job was punished is so erroneous and ignorant, because that would also mean Jesus was punished when He was driven into the wilderness and made suffer during His temptations. But it wasn't a punishment but a necessary process of the temptation of the devil which He overcame at the end, which was the same thing that happened as Job.

Moreover the opinion of God in this matter concerning Job is conclusive, so that of any man which contradicts it would be nothing but a lie, and this was God opinion concerning Job and why he suffered:

Job 2:3 (KJV)

And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

Job 42:7 (KJV) And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends.for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.

I think God's Word concerning Job should suffice speak for itself, so nothing else to add.

God bless.

From spiritual perfection, we are now on Job

Thanks for the last part.

I can't describe it, but it seems to make some sense today.

I've never really seen a reason to Job's suffering. It looks like just a punishment to prove the devil wrong about him.

It's always been the place people will direct you to any time you have difficulties of any kind, so you can beat yourself up and feel worthless and humble and know your place because you haven't suffered like Job.

What really is the essence of Job? And what does it have to do with spiritual perfection? If it doesn't have anything to do with it, I wouldn't like to derail further.

Dtruthspeaker:


You do not set what is Right, God has Done that,

You Choose Out of the Available Options of Rightness As Set by God, which Rightness you would Do, if you want to do Genuine Rightness!

Then why do you call it self-righteousness with the pastor? The idea that one cannot say that they've been righteous.

BRATISLAVA:

Then why do you call it self-righteousness with the pastor? The idea that one cannot say that they've been righteous.

As Self-righteousness Always means a "righteousness" which is Dictated by Self and Not by God, which means it is Actually "Unrighteousness".

For All True and Genuine Righteousness EXCLUSIVELY BELONGS TO GOD, and No Other!

BRATISLAVA:


From spiritual perfection, we are now on Job

Thanks for the last part.

I can't describe it, but it seems to make some sense today.

I've never really seen a reason to Job's suffering. It looks like just a punishment to prove the devil wrong about him.

It's always been the place people will direct you to any time you have difficulties of any kind, so you can beat yourself up and feel worthless and humble and know your place because you haven't suffered like Job.

What really is the essence of Job? And what does it have to do with spiritual perfection? If it doesn't have anything to do with it, I wouldn't like to derail further.

Sorry that was "BTW' as I said, not on the same subject.

I just had to chip that in with respect to your other conversations, because I believed punishment is what one is made to suffer because of a wrong they had done, but one can still suffer for other reasons like during temptations like I tried to point out.

Thanks.

Have a blessed day.

quote author=BRATISLAVA post=100940225]

I am learning from your response.

When I mentioned this keeping to the commandments and being "holy", a pastor attacked me that I'm being self-righteous and directed me to the book of Job.

Job was perfect in his reverence for God, to the point where he was atoning for the sins of his children in their absence. He thought he was too perfect and righteous and that was his sin, I was told.

The pastor made me understand that my acts of being perfect were filthy rags that didn't count for anything. And told me to look at the latter chapters of Job in which he realized that despite his self-righteousness he suffered more than others, and that it was still not good enough until he acknowledged that God was always going to be God.

It shocked me then. I even believed it. In retrospect, it angered me that nothing we do will ever be good enough or perfect enough for God. For some months afterwards, I did not even bother with trying to be a Christian because it didn't make sense, if God was calling me to Holiness, why couldn't I do things that He would find holy from my faith based on the Word? What was the basis of godly living, then?

I'm telling my experience because it may be what someone else has gone through and they may need some answers.

I still believe that God wants us to be perfect, no matter what. Otherwise there's no basis for living as a Christian. That is why I asked if it is sanctification or perfection.

I feel the perfection would come as a result of sanctification, to be in resonance with the Spirit of God to the point where you are counted as one with Him.

Open to further lessons on this.

God bless.[/quote]



It's better you hold on to your believe.
There are certain reasons the account of Job can be used for certain preaching. But to us who have been baptised into Christ Jesus then we ought to have that image of Him both inside and outside. We are birthed in the image of Christ Jesus and Him in God the Father.

It's better one takes time to study and meditate on the Epistles of Apostle Paul.

Dtruthspeaker:


As Self-righteousness Always means a "righteousness" which is Dictated by Self and Not by God, which means it is Actually "Unrighteousness".

For All True and Genuine Righteousness EXCLUSIVELY BELONGS TO GOD, and No Other!

What if it is righteousness from obedience to what is in the Bible?

This is like saying you aren't born again, because you cannot save yourself and didn't create the standards of being saved, though it is written in the Bible and you obeyed it to repentance. Yet you cannot say you are born again, because you would be usurping the power to give forgiveness.