Augustine was perhaps the most significant Christian thinker after St. Paul. Augustine assumed that Genesis 1 was chapter 1 in a book that contained the literal words of God, and that Genesis 2 was the second chapter in the same book, put the two chapters together and read the latter as a sequel. Genesis 2, he assumed, described the fall from the perfection and original goodness of creation depicted in chapter 1. So almost inevitably the Christian scriptures from the fourth century on were interpreted against the background of this (mis) understanding.

The primary trouble with this theory was that by the fourth century of the Common Era there were no Jews to speak of left in the Christian movement, and therefore the only readers and interpreters of the ancient Hebrew myths were Gentiles, who had no idea what these stories originally meant. Consequently, they interpreted them as perfection established by God in chapter 1, followed by perfection ruined by human beings in chapter 2. Why was that a problem? Well I, for one, have never known a Jewish scripture scholar to treat the Garden of Eden story in the same way that Gentiles treat it. Jews tend to see this story not as a narrative about sin entering the world, but as a parable about the birth of self-consciousness. It is, for the Jews, not a fall into sin, but a step into humanity. It is the birth of a new relationship with God, changing from master-servant to interdependent cooperation. The forbidden fruit was not from an apple tree, as so many who don’t bother to read the text seem to think. It was rather from “the tree of knowledge,” and the primary thing that one gained from eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge was the ability to discern good from evil. Gaining that ability did not, in the minds of the Jewish readers of the book of Genesis, corrupt human nature. It simply made people take responsibility for their freely made decisions. A slave has no such freedom. The job of the slave is simply to obey, not to think. The job of the slave-master is to command. Thus the relationship of the master to the slave is a relationship of the strong to the weak, the parent to the child, the king to the serf, the boss to the worker. If human beings were meant to live in that kind of relationship with God, then humanity would have been kept in a perpetual state of irresponsible, childlike immaturity. Adam and Eve had to leave the Garden of Eden, not because they had disobeyed God’s rules, but because, when self-consciousness was born, they could no longer live in childlike dependency. Adam and Eve discovered, as every child ultimately must discover, that maturity requires that the child leave his or her parents’ home, just as every bird sooner or later must leave its nest and learn to fly on its own. To be forced out of the Garden of Eden was, therefore, not a punishment for sin, so much as it was a step into maturity. Christ didn't come to die for any human, or to save anyone, he came to teach people to step into humanity, and leave behind the nature of depraved beasts. He taught this in the sermon on the mountain. Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God. If your hearts not pure, if you like call Jesus, cry a million times that you believe in Jesus and therefore you're saved , you will never see God. Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. You think you pay your tithe, you sing and dance in the choir all day, you slam your head on the floor in prayer a million times thru your life, you burn incense and venerate a pantheon of gods, etc, if you don't know what it means to have a poor spirit, you will never see heaven.

These are the sort of satanic doctrines that emerge by making the simple complex. And in the words of Apostle Paul :" But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."(Gal1 :8.)

A slave has no such freedom. The job of the slave is simply to obey, not to think. The job of the slave-master is to command. Thus the relationship of the master to the slave is a relationship of the strong to the weak, the parent to the child, the king to the serf, the boss to the worker. If human beings were meant to live in that kind of relationship with God, then humanity would have been kept in a perpetual state of irresponsible, childlike immaturity.

This part of the write up spoke to me. God really does mean it when He declares that those who love Him as those who submit to and obey His commandments.

Skoonheid:
Augustine was perhaps the most significant Christian thinker after St. Paul.

No he is not! He is just being promoted as such! There were Christian philosophers both before him and after him, who said either the same things or more but why him?

Skoonheid:
. So almost inevitably the Christian scriptures from the fourth century on were interpreted against the background of this (mis) understanding.

Why and how is this a misunderstanding?

Skoonheid:

The primary trouble with this theory was that by the fourth century of the Common Era there were no Jews to speak of left in the Christian movement, and therefore the only readers and interpreters of the ancient Hebrew myths were Gentiles, who had no idea what these stories originally meant.

This does not show the how and why it is a misunderstanding

Skoonheid:

Consequently, they interpreted them as perfection established by God in chapter 1, followed by perfection ruined by human beings in chapter 2.

So is this Augustine's Misunderstanding or the Interpreter's application of their own understanding?

Skoonheid:

Why was that a problem? Well I, for one, have never known a Jewish scripture scholar to treat the Garden of Eden story in the same way that Gentiles treat it. Jews tend to see this story not as a narrative about sin entering the world, but as a parable about the birth of self-consciousness. It is, for the Jews, not a fall into sin, but a step into humanity's. It is the birth of a new relationship with God, changing from master-servant to interdependent cooperation.

So are we and shall we be ruled by the views of the Jews or should we not read for ourselves what is written, as we do, today and apply understanding?

Skoonheid:

The forbidden fruit was not from an apple tree, as so many who don’t bother to read the text seem to think. It was rather from “the tree of knowledge,” and the primary thing that one gained from eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge was the ability to discern good from evil. Gaining that ability did not, in the minds of the Jewish readers of the book of Genesis, corrupt human nature.

So they have, as you say given us their own mind, are we not allowed to assess the same information and make our own minds?

And, because that is their mind it is Right and True? (And you can see that the Bible shows that the bulk of them are Liars and wicked people, so the mind of the wicked is Right?)

Skoonheid:

It simply made people take responsibility for their freely made decisions. A slave has no such freedom...

Now all these that you say is you for it is incompatible with what your beloved Jews said, to which all they said was to the effect that knowledge of good and evil does not corrupt a soul, and I Agree with them.

But it is something else that corrupts a soul, and the Bible also told us, but that's not your way,

You just wanted to hide behind the Jews and make your flawed and scattered presentation of your Lies that "A slave has no such freedom" as if God created slavery, whereas it is evil men who did!

God created man and gave him much "Permissions" called Rights and Freedoms and evil people came to remove those freedoms through death, woundings and slavery!

And that is The Truth!