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Paul And Women Silence In Church by Hiswordxray(m): 11:02am On May 30, 2021
We are going to be looking at 1Cor 14:34-36 and 1Tim 2:11-12.

"Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church." (1Cor 14:34-36 NKJV).

"Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence." (1Tim 2:11-12 NKJV).

Notice that each time Paul says women should not speak, he emphasizes "in church". To understand what this means we would have to look at the meaning of "church". The Greek word translated as church there is "ekklesia". The Greek word "ekklesia" first appeared in New Testament when Jesus said, "I shall build my church" (Matt 16:18). In the Greek Bible it is ekklesia not church, however Jesus didn't speak Greek, he spoke Aramaic and Hebrew, but the New Testament was written in Koine Greek.

The word that Jesus actually used, if it was Aramaic it would be, "Kehala", and if it was Hebrew it would be, "Qahal". Although ekklesia is the Greek translation of Qahal, however what Qahal means to the Hebrew is slightly different from what ekklesia is to the Greek. These are common things we experience when it comes to translating languages. You can use a word to translate another word, but those two words may not mean exactly the same thing. To the Greek, ekklesia means an assembly, a physical meeting. But to the Hebrew people "Qahal" is not just a meeting, it also refers to the whole community.

To the Hebrews, the community, the people are the Qahal (ekklesia). For example, the community of Israelites walking in the wilderness is a Qahal (ekklesia); the Nigerian people can be called a Qahal (ekklesia). Qahal (ekklesia) refers to a community, a nation, a people. But to the Greek, the people are not the ekklesia, it is the governmental meeting that is the ekklesia. A people walking together in a wilderness, that's not ekklesia according to the Greek. You cannot call them ekklesia, unless they are actually meeting together to make a decision concerning the community (you can study on the practice of ekklesia in Athens).

In Greek the ekklesia is a democratic system were the adult male citizens of a community come together to make decisions concerning that community. It is a governmental (decision making) meeting, and women were not involved in such decision making. Men are the head of the family, and the role of the head is to make the decisions. This is why women do not participate in the Greek ekklesia. To the Greek the ekklesia is all about making decisions, and decision making is the role of the man, as such only the men participate.

Women can attend the ekklesia meetings, but they were not allowed to speak. In Athens, the men climb up a platform called Pnyx. While the woman stay down, at the back of the meeting. It is also important to note that Corinth (the place where Paul's letter was addressed to) is very close to Athens where the idea and practice of ekklesia originated from in Greece. However, Christianity started from the Jews, it started from the idea of the Jews Qahal.

But the closest Greek word to Qahal is ekklesia, so when Jews want to speak or write Qahal in Greek, they would use the word "ekklesia". This means to the Jews ekklesia is much more than making decisions, ekklesia is the whole community. Wherever the community are gathered, it is called ekklesia, whether it's in the desert, or the mountain, or they are just gathered playing together, or worshipping, it is called ekklesia (Qahal). Now, put in mind that the Corinthians were Greek, they were mostly Gentiles not Jews. And Paul's letter was written in Greek. He was writing Greek to a Greek people.

So each time somebody says "ekklesia" the first thing that pops up in the mind of a Greek person is, "a decision making meeting". Now put that definition in your head and read Paul's words again with the attempt to understand what was in the mind of the Corinthians when they saw the word "ekklesia". I will quote that scripture again, but I will substitute "church" for "decision making meeting" so that you can be able to read from the mind of the Corinthians and understand what Paul was trying to communicate to them.

"Let your women keep silent in the decision making meetings, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in a decision making meeting." (1Cor 14:34-36 NKJV).


Paul made his appeal to two things; the Jewish law ("as the law also says"wink and the Greek tradition ("for it is shameful for women to speak in ekklesia"wink. According to the Jewish law the woman must be submissive to the head which is the husband, and the role of the head is to make decisions. According to the Greek tradition women are expected to keep silent in an ekklesia. This is why Paul said to the church in Corinth, "women should keep silent in the ekklesia... for it is shameful for women to speak in ekklesia." (1Cor 14:34,36). Why did he say it is shameful for women to speak in ekklesia? Because it is a known fact in the Greek world. Women do not speak in the secular ekklesia, women are not allowed to participate. They can come to the meeting, but they cannot participate.

So when Paul said women should not speak in the ekklesia, he was saying women should not participate in the decision making of the Christian community. The Christian church consists of different families coming together to form a community. And since men are the head of the family, it is only natural that the men should be the ones making the decisions. Paul was speaking to a Greek people who's understanding of ekklesia is that an ekklesia is a system of making decisions, where all the adult male participate, while the women and children (including teens) are to keep silent. It is a direct democratic system.

In our churches today, we are not practicing this direct democratic system. It is the pastors and the leaders that makes all the decisions for us, the congregation do not participate. In fact they are not even present when the decisions are being made. The congregation only come for church service (worship) not ekklesia (decision making meetings). Hence, it is wrong to use this scripture to say women should not speak in church service. Our church service is a worship meeting, while an ekklesia is a decision making meeting. Concerning worship, let's look closely at Paul gospel.

"There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus." (Gal 3:28).

We are to worship God in spirit and in truth (John 4:23-24). In Christ (in the spirit) there is no male or female. Hence, when we are moving in the spirit (or by the Spirit) we do not segregate whether the vessel is a male or a female, because as far as the Spirit is concern there is no male or female. In 1Cor 11, it is clear that women participated in the Christian worship, they were allowed to prophesy, provided that they cover their head. Women were also allowed to minister. Paul ministered with several women, and it seems one of these women was even an apostle.

"Make sure that my relatives Andronicus and Junia are honored, for they’re my fellow captives who bear the distinctive mark of being outstanding and well-known apostles, and who were joined into the Anointed One before me." (Rom 16:7).

Junia is a female name, it was probably referring to a lady who was an apostle. Another thing we must understand about the first century Christianity is that ministry is different and separated from the local assembly. Unlike today that we've joined the two together. Ministry is a service, a work that a believer carry out by the Spirit among the body of Christ. While the local assembly is a community of believers. Jesus did ministry, he didn't plant churches. Apollo also did ministry, he wasn't doing church. His was a teaching ministry, he was going about from one local assembly to another, teaching and equipping believers.

Timothy and others that worked with Paul had an apostolic ministry. They were going about from one local assembly to another equiping them. Theirs is like the work of a doctor, treating the defects of local assemblies and equipping them through teaching and structuring in order to make them a healthy assembly. This structuring involves appointing spiritually healthy and mature elders/bishops/pastors (in the first century the elders were the bishops and pastors) in each assembly in order to make them strong. Paul taught in the synagogue which is basically a hall, but the ekklesia is held at the homes of the believers.

In Ephesus Paul rented a hall to do ministry, but the ekklesia were still meeting at home. Each time Paul is ministering in the synagogue or in the hall that he rented, the believers would go to Paul in order to be equipped by his ministry. After the ministry, they returned back home and hold ekklesia meetings. I emphasize again; In the hall they sit under a ministry, but at home they hold community meetings. They go to the hall or synagogue on Saturday, then on Sunday they met at home and held the ekklesia.

In this ekklesia they discussed and made decisions concerning issues such as welfare and community stuff. And they also worship. The purpose of the meeting in the hall/synagogue is not for fellowship, neither do they worship in the hall, it's mainly for teaching purpose. Worshipping in ekklesia is unique to Christians, the secular Greeks don't worship in their ekklesia, they only come to make decisions. But along with the decision making, the Christians also worship and fellowship together as they meet at home. So one can say their meeting at home can be divided into worship session, fellowship session, and then the decision making session which is the real ekklesia according to the Greeks.

Note: The whole meeting is informal, so it is not outrightly divided into these sessions, I just asserted them for the sake of explanation.

In the first century women were ministers. They were very active in the world of ministry, they were teachers, prophets, evangelists, apostles, and assisted other ministers in various ways. In worship, women were also very active, they prophesied, sang and discussed the word of God. But when it comes to patriarchal things like making decisions concerning the community, women must be silent. The men make the decisions as the head. The decision making session is the real ekklesia according to the secular Greek tradition. Now let's go to 1Tim 2.

"Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence." (1Tim 2:11-12 NKJV).

Let's look at other translations of that scripture.

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet." (ESV 1Tim 2:12).
"I don’t let women take over and tell the men what to do." (1Tim 2:11-12).

The word "teach" as used here is not referring to teaching the Bible. It was actually referring to teaching instructions, or giving orders and commands. That's why that scripture connected "teach" with exercising authority. The teaching here is about giving orders, which is a function of exercising authority. Only those in authority give orders, and women are not the ones in authority. They are not the head, men are the head. As such men should be the ones giving orders, not women.

Paul didn't say women should not be teachers. Pricilia, the wife of Aquila, helped to teach Apollo and update him on the gospel of Christ. There were women teachers in the first century. Women can be anointed by God for ministry, and as long as they are moving under the anointing of that ministry they are free to do as the Spirit leads. In ministry women can even instruct men and give orders to men. Deborah was used by God to instruct men. Under the move of God, women can do anything as led by God, for God is not a respecter of any person. He could use either man or woman. There is neither male or female in Christ.

But in an ekklesia meeting where decisions concerning the community are being made, then the woman must keep quiet. Making decisions for the family (community) is not a ministry, no woman is anointed to do that. The moment a woman is chosen by God and called into a ministry in Christ, then she has all the authority to function in that ministry. Women that were called into ministry go out of their communities (church/ecclesia) and begin to move from one locality to another location, from one Christian community to another Christians community, ministering. In the first century ministries do not hijack Christian assemblies like we do today.

In the first century nobody owns the assembly, it is an independent body ruled by the people themselves under a system of direct democracy not the autocratic system we practice in our churches together. So in the first century ministers were "set apart" and send forth from their local assembly to go and do the work God had called them to do.

"As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away." (Acts 13:2-3).

A minister does not stay in his local assembly and take over it in the name of ministry. Rather he is sent away to go outside and do ministry. This means once a woman is called into ministry, she goes out to do that ministry. She does not remain in her local assembly and begin to order her husband and other men around. The ministry is taken outside and is separate. Only within that ministry does she has authority. Outside the ministry — whenever she comes to fellowship (not minister) in her local assembly — she and the other women must keep quiet during decision making in the local assembly.

They can participate in worship and even prophesy when moved by the Spirit, but they cannot participate in the decision making session of the Christian meeting. The local assembly is all about mutuality, everyone is allowed to share, whether men, women, or even children. They all sit together and discuss like a family, they learn Christ together. Real teaching only takes place when there is a teacher in town holding a program (a teaching ministry). Then different local assembly in that town would go and sit under the ministry of that teacher. And when the program has been concluded, the teacher will move on to the next town and minister to believers there.

That was how it was in the first century. Women participated in worship, they were used by God in ministry, and they were very active during fellowship. But during the decision making of the community they were to keep silent and let their husbands make decisions for the community. There are so many things about the first century Christianity that we don't understand today because we are practicing a different version of Christianity, and we live thousands of years away from them. The way we practice Christianity today is different from how it was done in the first century, and most times we try to project our practice of Christianity into what we see in the Bible. As such we come out with wrong interpretations of what the Bible is saying.

Here is a course to help you understand how the first century Christians practice church. The course is titled What Is The Ecclesia. It is a free course available in soncommunity.com

Sign up and enroll for the course.

Re: Paul And Women Silence In Church by Techguy96(m): 11:24am On May 30, 2021
The New Testament was written in Greek when the writers spoke either Hebrew or Aramaic.
Shouldn’t that worry bible believers, like Jesus disciples were fishermen, tax collectors and all, it’s shows there were mainly illiterate there was no way they could read n write those days especially not an elite language like Greek. Only the rich n upper class people could read n write Greek not people like Mathew mark etc.
Re: Paul And Women Silence In Church by Hiswordxray(m): 11:50am On May 30, 2021
Techguy96:
The New Testament was written in Greek when the writers spoke either Hebrew or Aramaic.
Shouldn’t that worry bible believers, like Jesus disciples were fishermen, tax collectors and all, it’s shows there were mainly illiterate there was no way they could read n write those days especially not an elite language like Greek. Only the rich n upper class people could read n write Greek not people like Mathew mark etc.
Matthew, Mark and the other understood that the Greek language was the most widely used in writing during the Greco-Roman period. And they were writing to the people in the Greco-Roman world. So they figured the best language to write it is Greek. And moreover, they don't need to write it themselves. They could get a scholar and dictate so that he could write it in Greek.

Paul and Luke were the only ones that could write in Greek. That is why Paul wrote most of the books of the New Testament.
Re: Paul And Women Silence In Church by Techguy96(m): 11:57am On May 30, 2021
Hiswordxray:

Matthew, Mark and the other understood that the Greek language was the most widely used in writing during the Greco-Roman period. And they were writing to the people in the Greco-Roman world. So they figured the best language to write it is Greek. And moreover, they don't need to write it themselves. They could get a scholar and dictate so that he could write it in Greek.

Paul and Luke were the only ones that could write in Greek. That is why Paul wrote most of the books of the New Testament.
U said they understood that Greek was the most widely use language, were u in their thought process, how did u know what they figured out or did not figure out, u first paragraph was mere assumptions.
I could also assume a Greek scholar wrote the New Testament n it was just mere literature n story taken to far by the Roman Catholic.

I agree with ur second paragraph but common, read Paul’s teaching very well, just look at the examples above on his opinions about women.
To be honest Paul’s teacher were mainly his opinion n laws of Israel has nothing to do with Jesus.
Re: Paul And Women Silence In Church by livingchrist: 2:15pm On May 30, 2021
Hiswordxray:
We are going to be looking at 1Cor 14:34-36 and 1Tim 2:11-12.

"Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church." (1Cor 14:34-36 NKJV).

"Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence." (1Tim 2:11-12 NKJV).

Notice that each time Paul says women should not speak, he emphasizes "in church". To understand what this means we would have to look at the meaning of "church". The Greek word translated as church there is "ekklesia". The Greek word "ekklesia" first appeared in New Testament when Jesus said, "I shall build my church" (Matt 16:18). In the Greek Bible it is ekklesia not church, however Jesus didn't speak Greek, he spoke Aramaic and Hebrew, but the New Testament was written in Koine Greek.

The word that Jesus actually used, if it was Aramaic it would be, "Kehala", and if it was Hebrew it would be, "Qahal". Although ekklesia is the Greek translation of Qahal, however what Qahal means to the Hebrew is slightly different from what ekklesia is to the Greek. These are common things we experience when it comes to translating languages. You can use a word to translate another word, but those two words may not mean exactly the same thing. To the Greek, ekklesia means an assembly, a physical meeting. But to the Hebrew people "Qahal" is not just a meeting, it also refers to the whole community.

To the Hebrews, the community, the people are the Qahal (ekklesia). For example, the community of Israelites walking in the wilderness is a Qahal (ekklesia); the Nigerian people can be called a Qahal (ekklesia). Qahal (ekklesia) refers to a community, a nation, a people. But to the Greek, the people are not the ekklesia, it is the governmental meeting that is the ekklesia. A people walking together in a wilderness, that's not ekklesia according to the Greek. You cannot call them ekklesia, unless they are actually meeting together to make a decision concerning the community (you can study on the practice of ekklesia in Athens).

In Greek the ekklesia is a democratic system were the adult male citizens of a community come together to make decisions concerning that community. It is a governmental (decision making) meeting, and women were not involved in such decision making. Men are the head of the family, and the role of the head is to make the decisions. This is why women do not participate in the Greek ekklesia. To the Greek the ekklesia is all about making decisions, and decision making is the role of the man, as such only the men participate.

Women can attend the ekklesia meetings, but they were not allowed to speak. In Athens, the men climb up a platform called Pnyx. While the woman stay down, at the back of the meeting. It is also important to note that Corinth (the place where Paul's letter was addressed to) is very close to Athens where the idea and practice of ekklesia originated from in Greece. However, Christianity started from the Jews, it started from the idea of the Jews Qahal.

But the closest Greek word to Qahal is ekklesia, so when Jews want to speak or write Qahal in Greek, they would use the word "ekklesia". This means to the Jews ekklesia is much more than making decisions, ekklesia is the whole community. Wherever the community are gathered, it is called ekklesia, whether it's in the desert, or the mountain, or they are just gathered playing together, or worshipping, it is called ekklesia (Qahal). Now, put in mind that the Corinthians were Greek, they were mostly Gentiles not Jews. And Paul's letter was written in Greek. He was writing Greek to a Greek people.

So each time somebody says "ekklesia" the first thing that pops up in the mind of a Greek person is, "a decision making meeting". Now put that definition in your head and read Paul's words again with the attempt to understand what was in the mind of the Corinthians when they saw the word "ekklesia". I will quote that scripture again, but I will substitute "church" for "decision making meeting" so that you can be able to read from the mind of the Corinthians and understand what Paul was trying to communicate to them.

"Let your women keep silent in the decision making meetings, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in a decision making meeting." (1Cor 14:34-36 NKJV).


Paul made his appeal to two things; the Jewish law ("as the law also says"wink and the Greek tradition ("for it is shameful for women to speak in ekklesia"wink. According to the Jewish law the woman must be submissive to the head which is the husband, and the role of the head is to make decisions. According to the Greek tradition women are expected to keep silent in an ekklesia. This is why Paul said to the church in Corinth, "women should keep silent in the ekklesia... for it is shameful for women to speak in ekklesia." (1Cor 14:34,36). Why did he say it is shameful for women to speak in ekklesia? Because it is a known fact in the Greek world. Women do not speak in the secular ekklesia, women are not allowed to participate. They can come to the meeting, but they cannot participate.

So when Paul said women should not speak in the ekklesia, he was saying women should not participate in the decision making of the Christian community. The Christian church consists of different families coming together to form a community. And since men are the head of the family, it is only natural that the men should be the ones making the decisions. Paul was speaking to a Greek people who's understanding of ekklesia is that an ekklesia is a system of making decisions, where all the adult male participate, while the women and children (including teens) are to keep silent. It is a direct democratic system.

In our churches today, we are not practicing this direct democratic system. It is the pastors and the leaders that makes all the decisions for us, the congregation do not participate. In fact they are not even present when the decisions are being made. The congregation only come for church service (worship) not ekklesia (decision making meetings). Hence, it is wrong to use this scripture to say women should not speak in church service. Our church service is a worship meeting, while an ekklesia is a decision making meeting. Concerning worship, let's look closely at Paul gospel.

"There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus." (Gal 3:28).

We are to worship God in spirit and in truth (John 4:23-24). In Christ (in the spirit) there is no male or female. Hence, when we are moving in the spirit (or by the Spirit) we do not segregate whether the vessel is a male or a female, because as far as the Spirit is concern there is no male or female. In 1Cor 11, it is clear that women participated in the Christian worship, they were allowed to prophesy, provided that they cover their head. Women were also allowed to minister. Paul ministered with several women, and it seems one of these women was even an apostle.

"Make sure that my relatives Andronicus and Junia are honored, for they’re my fellow captives who bear the distinctive mark of being outstanding and well-known apostles, and who were joined into the Anointed One before me." (Rom 16:7).

Junia is a female name, it was probably referring to a lady who was an apostle. Another thing we must understand about the first century Christianity is that ministry is different and separated from the local assembly. Unlike today that we've joined the two together. Ministry is a service, a work that a believer carry out by the Spirit among the body of Christ. While the local assembly is a community of believers. Jesus did ministry, he didn't plant churches. Apollo also did ministry, he wasn't doing church. His was a teaching ministry, he was going about from one local assembly to another, teaching and equipping believers.

Timothy and others that worked with Paul had an apostolic ministry. They were going about from one local assembly to another equiping them. Theirs is like the work of a doctor, treating the defects of local assemblies and equipping them through teaching and structuring in order to make them a healthy assembly. This structuring involves appointing spiritually healthy and mature elders/bishops/pastors (in the first century the elders were the bishops and pastors) in each assembly in order to make them strong. Paul taught in the synagogue which is basically a hall, but the ekklesia is held at the homes of the believers.

In Ephesus Paul rented a hall to do ministry, but the ekklesia were still meeting at home. Each time Paul is ministering in the synagogue or in the hall that he rented, the believers would go to Paul in order to be equipped by his ministry. After the ministry, they returned back home and hold ekklesia meetings. I emphasize again; In the hall they sit under a ministry, but at home they hold community meetings. They go to the hall or synagogue on Saturday, then on Sunday they met at home and held the ekklesia.

In this ekklesia they discussed and made decisions concerning issues such as welfare and community stuff. And they also worship. The purpose of the meeting in the hall/synagogue is not for fellowship, neither do they worship in the hall, it's mainly for teaching purpose. Worshipping in ekklesia is unique to Christians, the secular Greeks don't worship in their ekklesia, they only come to make decisions. But along with the decision making, the Christians also worship and fellowship together as they meet at home. So one can say their meeting at home can be divided into worship session, fellowship session, and then the decision making session which is the real ekklesia according to the Greeks.

Note: The whole meeting is informal, so it is not outrightly divided into these sessions, I just asserted them for the sake of explanation.

In the first century women were ministers. They were very active in the world of ministry, they were teachers, prophets, evangelists, apostles, and assisted other ministers in various ways. In worship, women were also very active, they prophesied, sang and discussed the word of God. But when it comes to patriarchal things like making decisions concerning the community, women must be silent. The men make the decisions as the head. The decision making session is the real ekklesia according to the secular Greek tradition. Now let's go to 1Tim 2.

"Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence." (1Tim 2:11-12 NKJV).

Let's look at other translations of that scripture.

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet." (ESV 1Tim 2:12).
"I don’t let women take over and tell the men what to do." (1Tim 2:11-12).

The word "teach" as used here is not referring to teaching the Bible. It was actually referring to teaching instructions, or giving orders and commands. That's why that scripture connected "teach" with exercising authority. The teaching here is about giving orders, which is a function of exercising authority. Only those in authority give orders, and women are not the ones in authority. They are not the head, men are the head. As such men should be the ones giving orders, not women.

Paul didn't say women should not be teachers. Pricilia, the wife of Aquila, helped to teach Apollo and update him on the gospel of Christ. There were women teachers in the first century. Women can be anointed by God for ministry, and as long as they are moving under the anointing of that ministry they are free to do as the Spirit leads. In ministry women can even instruct men and give orders to men. Deborah was used by God to instruct men. Under the move of God, women can do anything as led by God, for God is not a respecter of any person. He could use either man or woman. There is neither male or female in Christ.

But in an ekklesia meeting where decisions concerning the community are being made, then the woman must keep quiet. Making decisions for the family (community) is not a ministry, no woman is anointed to do that. The moment a woman is chosen by God and called into a ministry in Christ, then she has all the authority to function in that ministry. Women that were called into ministry go out of their communities (church/ecclesia) and begin to move from one locality to another location, from one Christian community to another Christians community, ministering. In the first century ministries do not hijack Christian assemblies like we do today.

In the first century nobody owns the assembly, it is an independent body ruled by the people themselves under a system of direct democracy not the autocratic system we practice in our churches together. So in the first century ministers were "set apart" and send forth from their local assembly to go and do the work God had called them to do.

"As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away." (Acts 13:2-3).

A minister does not stay in his local assembly and take over it in the name of ministry. Rather he is sent away to go outside and do ministry. This means once a woman is called into ministry, she goes out to do that ministry. She does not remain in her local assembly and begin to order her husband and other men around. The ministry is taken outside and is separate. Only within that ministry does she has authority. Outside the ministry — whenever she comes to fellowship (not minister) in her local assembly — she and the other women must keep quiet during decision making in the local assembly.

They can participate in worship and even prophesy when moved by the Spirit, but they cannot participate in the decision making session of the Christian meeting. The local assembly is all about mutuality, everyone is allowed to share, whether men, women, or even children. They all sit together and discuss like a family, they learn Christ together. Real teaching only takes place when there is a teacher in town holding a program (a teaching ministry). Then different local assembly in that town would go and sit under the ministry of that teacher. And when the program has been concluded, the teacher will move on to the next town and minister to believers there.

That was how it was in the first century. Women participated in worship, they were used by God in ministry, and they were very active during fellowship. But during the decision making of the community they were to keep silent and let their husbands make decisions for the community. There are so many things about the first century Christianity that we don't understand today because we are practicing a different version of Christianity, and we live thousands of years away from them. The way we practice Christianity today is different from how it was done in the first century, and most times we try to project our practice of Christianity into what we see in the Bible. As such we come out with wrong interpretations of what the Bible is saying.

Here is a course to help you understand how the first century Christians practice church. The course is titled What Is The Ecclesia. It is a free course available in soncommunity.com

Sign up and enroll for the course.


Eklesia is not a political gathering, it means the church, the body of belivers gathered together.

1 Timothy 2:12-14 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.



The bible is clear barring women from being pastors over men.


the church is the body of christ, and also the christian gathering when the fellowship.


The only exception I think maybe in the absence of qualified men.
Re: Paul And Women Silence In Church by Hiswordxray(m): 7:22pm On May 30, 2021
livingchrist:
the church is the body of christ, and also the christian gathering when the fellowship.
You are correct
Re: Paul And Women Silence In Church by Hiswordxray(m): 7:59am On Jun 06, 2021
livingchrist:


Eklesia is not a political gathering, it means the church, the body of belivers gathered together.

1 Timothy 2:12-14 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.



The bible is clear barring women from being pastors over men.


the church is the body of christ, and also the christian gathering when the fellowship.


The only exception I think maybe in the absence of qualified men.
The things you state here is filled with ignorant. But I can see you have your own prejudice and worldview, and you are ready to trade the truth for your worldview.

Well, if that is the path you've taken well done. I wish you good luck.
Re: Paul And Women Silence In Church by livingchrist: 1:53pm On Jun 06, 2021
You are confused

Hiswordxray:

The things you state here is filled with ignorant. But I can see you have your own prejudice and worldview, and you are ready to trade the truth for your worldview.

Well, if that is the path you've taken well done. I wish you good luck.
Re: Paul And Women Silence In Church by Hiswordxray(m): 2:14pm On Jun 06, 2021
livingchrist:
You are confused

Did you even take time to research the meaning "Ecclesia", and the origin of the word?

Or you just love your ignorance?
Re: Paul And Women Silence In Church by Hiswordxray(m): 3:41pm On Jun 06, 2021
Techguy96:

U said they understood that Greek was the most widely use language, were u in their thought process, how did u know what they figured out or did not figure out, u first paragraph was mere assumptions.
I could also assume a Greek scholar wrote the New Testament n it was just mere literature n story taken to far by the Roman Catholic.

I agree with ur second paragraph but common, read Paul’s teaching very well, just look at the examples above on his opinions about women.
To be honest Paul’s teacher were mainly his opinion n laws of Israel has nothing to do with Jesus.
Well, you can believe whatever you want to believe, but that doesn't mean it's true.
Re: Paul And Women Silence In Church by Techguy96(m): 4:02pm On Jun 06, 2021
Hiswordxray:

Well, you can believe whatever you want to believe, but that doesn't mean it's true.
Same applies to you
Re: Paul And Women Silence In Church by livingchrist: 8:09pm On Jun 06, 2021
Hiswordxray:

Did you even take time to research the meaning "Ecclesia", and the origin of the word?

Or you just love your ignorance?
You love mentioning ignorance as if you just found out the word.

The bible is clear enoung only heretics start contending with the bible because the want to bring in satanic doctrines.

If these verses do not tell you what the church is, then sorry for you!

Retrace your steps,

Ephesians 5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Colossians 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:


You dont need any greek dictionary to interpret it to you.

The church is not a mere discussion group but the body of Jesus himself.

Re: Paul And Women Silence In Church by Hiswordxray(m): 8:48pm On Jun 06, 2021
livingchrist:

You love mentioning ignorance as if you just found out the word.

The bible is clear enoung only heretics start contending with the bible because the want to bring in satanic doctrines.

If these verses do not tell you what the church is, then sorry for you!

Retrace your steps,

Ephesians 5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Colossians 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:


You dont need any greek dictionary to interpret it to you.

The church is not a mere discussion group but the body of Jesus himself.

And where in my article did I say the Church is not the body of Christ?

Can you see how ignorance can blind a person?
Re: Paul And Women Silence In Church by Felicox(m): 9:11pm On Jun 06, 2021
Trying to twist the scriptures to suit your own message or argument is not a new thing, it's the hallmark of Pentecostalism. The Bible was not written today, and those in the bible times understood whatever language was used in writing it and the practice of preventing women from pastoring churches in line with the scriptures has been practiced for many centuries. So all that you and the supposed modernisation, and feminism movement are doing are simply end time trait's, deceiving people against the teachings of the Bible thinking you know more than the Apostle Paul. But the word of God can never change to suit you. My advice to you and everyone else like you is to repent. 2 Tim 3: 16 say's that all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

1 Like

Re: Paul And Women Silence In Church by livingchrist: 4:38am On Jun 07, 2021
Hiswordxray:

And where in my article did I say the Church is not the body of Christ?

Can you see how ignorance can blind a person?
According to you confused article eklesia has two different meaning one for Jews and one for gentiles, see how satan has confused you.

Paul wrote that eklesia is the body of Christ in Colosians who were majorly greeks, so where is the origin of your theory?
Re: Paul And Women Silence In Church by Hiswordxray(m): 11:03am On Jun 13, 2021
livingchrist:

According to you confused article eklesia has two different meaning one for Jews and one for gentiles, see how satan has confused you.

Paul wrote that eklesia is the body of Christ in Colosians who were majorly greeks, so where is the origin of your theory?
So are you saying the people of Colossian never used the word "ekklesia" before Paul wrote that letter to them?

Are you saying the Greek have not been using this word before Jesus came?

And if they've used the word before, in what context do they used it?

This is a simple thing. It is people who are willfully blind that will refuse to see.
Re: Paul And Women Silence In Church by Hiswordxray(m): 2:54pm On Jun 13, 2021
Felicox:
Trying to twist the scriptures to suit your own message or argument is not a new thing, it's the hallmark of Pentecostalism. The Bible was not written today, and those in the bible times understood whatever language was used in writing it and the practice of preventing women from pastoring churches in line with the scriptures has been practiced for many centuries. So all that you and the supposed modernisation, and feminism movement are doing are simply end time trait's, deceiving people against the teachings of the Bible thinking you know more than the Apostle Paul. But the word of God can never change to suit you. My advice to you and everyone else like you is to repent. 2 Tim 3: 16 say's that all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

Deborah in the Old Testament was used by God as a judge. During that time the judge was like the king of Israel. Priscilla and Aquila instructed Apollo. Priscilla was a female and she ministered with Paul.

What about the daughters of Phillip who prophesied to Paul. There are even evidence that there was a female apostles.

Go and study the 2nd and 3rd century Christianity you will realize women were greatly used by God.

You can't come here and be making statements about things you know nothing about. Have you studied the history of Christianity? How are you so sure women were sidelined since the beginning of the church?

Please don't open your mouth and be saying things you don't know.
Re: Paul And Women Silence In Church by livingchrist: 5:51pm On Jun 13, 2021
[b]In this ekklesia they discussed and made decisions concerning issues such as welfare and community stuff

The above were your words, you were wrong in the church there was teachings.

1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Note the words teach
Again in In 1 Tim 2 paul was addressing the way the church must worship.
In that gathering prayers are made, men lift up their holy hands in worship
Women should dress moderately
Women must not teach or usurp authority over a man.

This was not a mere discussion meeting like you were trying to portray.
Stop being contentious and accept the truth.

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