Beancounter93:


From this thread.

Should govern ment stop paying subsides on power, power prices will go up

And as the tenor of this thread indicates most people don't want that

You’re not answering my question on the use of prepaid meter. People are paying more to acquire it, even though this government said it is being subsidized, except you are saying publicly that prepaid electricity token is also being subsidized, then it is this government that has a problem to fix.

When you buy prepaid electricity token, do you know there’s a portion that also goes to maintenance? Nigerians are also responsible for Electric poles, and cables to access electricity yet, they pay maintenance to a private company getting subsidy from the government.

Beancounter93:


The subsidies in power and petroleum cover the difference between the cost of production and the actual sale price.

Assuming YOU are a baker and it costs you N300 to bake a loaf of bread, which you want to sell at N600...so that you have a profit of N300.(FOR ILLUSTRATIVE PURPOSES ONLY, please!)

Government steps in, tells you to sell that bread at N150, and pays you a subsidy of N150 per loaf sold.

But your production costs keep going up...four years later...that loaf of bread costs you N400 to make, and you are earning N300 per loaf sold. You complain...so government raises the subsidy payment to N200 PER loaf sold.

Two years later...the cost of making the loaf goes up to N500 ....but you are selling it at N150, and getting N200 from government per loaf sold....and you complain again....and government allows you to raise your sale price to N300, while paying you N200 per loaf sold...


If you are still with me, you are not making enough profit. So, you get creative. YOu lie about your production numbers, you loe about transport costs by inflating both...so that you can get more money from government...or you flog SOME of your bread on the black market for N1000 PER LOAF.

And your produiction falls because not enough proft...means you cannot improve your machinery, and your production capacity....

That is the story of why power and petrol, despite rising prices and rising subsidy, are not improving., The subsidy regimen does not let them make a profit that would help them actually grow their businesses.

Did you see how much they spent in subsidizing power in four years? 1.3trillion naira. That's hundreds of billions annually yet Electricity bill is competing with house rent. They are stealing the money #fullstop#

No

To steal

Zenithpeak:

Forget all those "they are not covering their monthly running cost and statements of facts" which are contrary to reality.

That you insist on ignoring the established fact that these companies have published financial reports, which are independently audited, suggests that the problem with reality is yours. Just because it makes you feel good to see yourself as a victim doesn't falsify objective, easily confirmed facts, and it certainly does nothing for your credibility.

You are engaging in the very kind of fallacious motivated "reasoning" all too many Nigerians are prey to. Instead of looking at the hard evidence and reasoning forward from there, you've decided that you don't like your current circumstances, that the DISCOs are entirely to blame, and that therefore they must be 100% evil and any mitigating factors mentioned about their failings must also be a lie. This allows you to indulge your feelings of self-righteousness but does nothing to help you see what course of action you should be agitating for to make things better.

If all you care about is that short term emotional catharsis, have at it, but nothing will change for the better in Nigeria until you and the many others like you get over your subjectivity and try to understand things beyond their perceived direct impact on you. Your personal experiences are merely anecdotal, not a basis for grasping what ails a country of 200 million people.

Trentee4eva:

Did you see how much they spent in subsidizing power in four years? 1.3trillion naira. That's hundreds of billions annually yet Electricity bill is competing with house rent. They are stealing the money #fullstop#

Yes and the reason why it is that high is simple.

The cost of power is rising, and thus the cost of keeping that power cheap rises.

The best way to stop such waste is to remove the subsidy, and allow DISCOS and GENCOS directly control the price they set for customers so that they do not operate at a loss, and government does not waste money on the subsidy.

KaluwisxPRO:


You’re not answering my question on the use of prepaid meter. People are paying more to acquire it, even though this government said it is being subsidized, except you are saying publicly that prepaid electricity token is also being subsidized, then it is this government that has a problem to fix.

When you buy prepaid electricity token, do you know there’s a portion that also goes to maintenance? Nigerians are also responsible for Electric poles, and cables to access electricity yet, they pay maintenance to a private company getting subsidy from the government.

The problem is not the prepaid meter...the problem is that the cost of power is still below its prodcution cost...prepaid meter or no

(And I support metering...however if you meter everyone, and we are still paying N67 for something that costs N70....the power companies will still be operating at a loss.).

Beancounter93:


From this thread.

Should govern ment stop paying subsides on power, power prices will go up

And as the tenor of this thread indicates most people don't want that

That's the Nigerian way: subsidized darkness is better than market-rate reliable power, subsidized Dollars available only to Dangote and crew is better than market-based FX rates that attract major FDI, subsidized petrol with constant bouts of shortages is better than market-price petrol that attracts the domestic investment in refining that Nigerians claim to want ... on and on it goes, with Nigerians demanding subsidies and then acting astonished when the subsidy regimes they agitated for lead to the all too forseeable shortages.

I'm too jaded by years of fruitless advocacy on here to expect anything I or anyone else has to say to change the prevailing opinion, as the "awuf" mentality from the petrodollar boom of the 1970s seems unkillable. All I can hope for at this point is that someone with a reasonable grasp of economics gets into Aso Rock after Buhari, shows some strength of character, and starts to rid the country of all the state controls over the economy no matter how loudly the unions and ignorant journalists wail about the measures being taken. If Nigerian public opinion were taken into account, NITEL would still have a monopoly over telephony, and it would cost 20 times as much as it currently does to use one of the few semi-working landlines to make even a short phone call - and any attempts to change things would be met by the same fact-free ranting and raving about "greed" and "theft" that we see for electricity and petroleum.

Beancounter93:


Yes and the reason why it is that high is simple.

The cost of power is rising, and thus the cost of keeping that power cheap rises.

The best way to stop such waste is to remove the subsidy, and allow DISCOS and GENCOS directly control the price they set for customers so that they do not operate at a loss, and government does not waste money on the subsidy.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Please can you explain why the cost of power is rising. Is the rise in cost occurring only in Nigeria or is it a global phenomenon. If indeed it is only occurring in a few countries, what could be the root cause or commonality.
Finally, do you have any suggestion to bring the cost down.

cc omohayek

They borrow for every thing then loot all our internally generated funds. Thieves in government

does that make sense at all?ur guess is as good as mine!

Tianamen1:


I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Please can you explain why the cost of power is rising. Is the rise in cost occurring only in Nigeria or is it a global phenomenon. If indeed it is only occurring in a few countries, what could be the root cause or commonality.
Finally, do you have any suggestion to bring the cost down.

cc omohayek

Most of our power is generated from gas, and the cost of gas rises yearly...which impacts on the cost of power. (Then there are things like worker salaries, etc, etc...which all have to rise too)

Hence the real cost of power rises...but since government has been subsiding power, the amount of money it pays to discos and gencos to keep the cost of power below its cost of production rises too.

That's why subsides aren't any good. In my opinion, costs of producing x aren't static...they rise. And so does the subsidy...to the point that we have to take loans eventually to pay for it....since oil is not high enough, and since IGR hasn't grown much. (thanks to government not being able to raise it).

affable4:
I dont understand this world bank.

They seem to be in partnership with the FG to extort the masses for their gain. They have really studied the Nigerian government and the people.

So you are indirectly telling the FG to increase power tariff.

Pathetic.

Get wisdom, get prepaid meter.
I no dey buy pass 2k units for my prepaid meter, and it must last me one month.
Prepare yourself for the hike.

omohayek:

That you insist on ignoring the established fact that these companies have published financial reports, which are independently audited, suggests that the problem with reality is yours. Just because it makes you feel good to see yourself as a victim doesn't falsify objective, easily confirmed facts, and it certainly does nothing for your credibility.

You are engaging in the very kind of fallacious motivated "reasoning" all too many Nigerians are prey to. Instead of looking at the hard evidence and reasoning forward from there, you've decided that you don't like your current circumstances, that the DISCOs are entirely to blame, and that therefore they must be 100% evil and any mitigating factors mentioned about their failings must also be a lie. This allows you to indulge your feelings of self-righteousness but does nothing to help you see what course of action you should be agitating for to make things better.

If all you care about is that short term emotional catharsis, have at it, but nothing will change for the better in Nigeria until you and the many others like you get over your subjectivity and try to understand things beyond their perceived direct impact on you. Your personal experiences are merely anecdotal, not a basis for grasping what ails a country of 200 million people.

In as much as I understand and appreciate your patriotic stance on the subject matter, but, quite hypocritical to mutilate my post by mentioning the only part that will make you feel comfortable and look good in the eyes of people that monitors your nationalistic activism online....

When figures and statistics negates realities on ground then, such report is subject to suspicion. The most honest parameter to measure governance is by firstly, check your micro (personal/ immidiate) environment basic needs and justify your accessibilities to the availability of provision of such basic amenities before looking into your macro environment.
To me, those "your" verified and audited report by standard accounting and auditing firm remains inapplicable to our current realities in Nigeria in as much as we are still paying for services not enjoyed.

The truth is those reports were falsified and premised on mere assumptions. Let them metrize all consumers and all payments are electronically motivated, then, I will agree with you that they are undercharging the consumers and there is need for upward review in their billing rates/mgwt.

Isn't it awkward that the DISCOS are undercharging for power that is not being supplied to the consumers? Funny enough they have verified report to justify such mammoth fraud!. I really don't understand how subsidy is even applicable in this kind of situation.

Still,light no dey..

JBArokonkwo1:
. Poor comprehension is a problem.... They stated that revenue from tarrif was insuffient compared to what is spent on generating power. They also said this was largely due to the fact that govt supplies electricity more to the rich than the poor and this means power gets to those who need it less than those who needs it most.

No where in the world is electricity subsidized by govt! Nothing good comes cheaply. I pay nearly 50 pounds monthly as my electric bills here! But of course the average Nigerian wants 24 hours power and still pay 7k a month as bill!

You guys are the pathetic ones!

Obviously, you are the one having the problem of comprehension and you ended up contradicting yourself.

Summary of tariff lesser than input is it not increased tariff? Especially when subsidy is removed.

You sha want to talk.

affable4:


Obviously, you are the one having the problem of comprehension and you ended up contradicting yourself.

Summary of tariff lesser than input is it not increased tariff? Especially when subsidy is removed.

You sha want to talk.

The subsidy has not yet been removed, plus the subsidy only covers the diffrerence between what they charge us to power and what it costs to produce it.

To break it down, it costs about N70 to produce one kwh of power.

Below are the prices for power in Nigeria per region. Subtract the cost per kwh from N70 and the balance is what is covered for by the subsidy government borrows to pay for.

And at the end of the day, the power companies are not allowed to make a profit...at all

It is like you selling pens for N50 that you bought for N30 per pen. Government steps in and tells you to sell those pens for N10, and pays you a subsidy of N20 per pen ...which means at the end of the day you make zero profit...meanwhile the cost of making the pen is rising.

Beancounter93:


The problem is not the prepaid meter...the problem is that the cost of power is still below its prodcution cost...prepaid meter or no

(And I support metering...however if you meter everyone, and we are still paying N67 for something that costs N70....the power companies will still be operating at a loss.).

And who told you Nigerians are not ready to pay the actual cost if they get the said electricity? People are paying for what they don’t see and that’s why they are reluctant to pay at all, how is that difficult for you to understand? Is the unsubsidized electricity costlier than running a generator?

KaluwisxPRO:


And who told you Nigerians are not ready to pay the actual cost if they get the said electricity? People are paying for what they don’t see and that’s why they are reluctant to pay at all, how is that difficult for you to understand? Is the unsubsidized electricity costlier than running a generator?

And who told you that the DISCOS and GENCOS are not willing to give them the electricity..so long as they can make a profit selling the electricitya profit that they can use to make the much needed improvements to give us power 24/7.

Instead you guys want them to keep on selling power at a loss, and government to keep on paying an increasing amount of money in subsides that does not cover the loss adequately because of rising costs of production, and does not let them make a profit enough to achieve the goal of 24/7 light.?

Thus, we don't have light.

Meanwhile we have a working GSM sector because GSM companies can charge what they want...thus earning money to build and fix things.

Below is a page from the PWC report on the liquidity problems in the power sector. I suggest you google for the report and read it.

Beancounter93:


And who told you that the DISCOS and GENCOS are not willing to give them the electricity..so long as they can make a profit selling the electricitya profit that they can use to make the much needed improvements to give us power 24/7.

Instead you guys want them to keep on selling power at a loss, and government to keep on paying an increasing amount of money in subsides that does not cover the loss adequately because of rising costs of production, and does not let them make a profit enough to achieve the goal of 24/7 light.?

Thus, we don't have light.

Meanwhile we have a working GSM sector because GSM companies can charge what they want...thus earning money to build and fix things.

Below is a page from the PWC report on the liquidity problems in the power sector. I suggest you google for the report and read it.

CHARGE NIGERIANS THE ACTUAL RATE OF ELECTRICITY AND PROVIDE it with its infrastructure and they will pay. Nobody is complaining about Electricity bill they got for what was provided. Those who cannot afford Expensive electricity can opt for other source of power. I have no idea where you get the statistics from that people are not willing to pay.

KaluwisxPRO:



CHARGE NIGERIANS THE ACTUAL RATE OF ELECTRICITY AND PROVIDE it with its infrastructure and they will pay. Nobody is complaining about Electricity bill they got for what was provided. Those who cannot afford Expensive electricity can opt for other source of power. I have no idea where you get the statistics from that people are not willing to pay.

I hope you are right.

Because Nigerians in my opinion would rather prefer subsided power to paying the actual cost for power.

The Fulanis are just storing up the money for whatever it is they are planning, and the south is assisting them.

DR. NGOZI ON DBEAT

Beancounter93:


1.You did not tell us the type of houses in Gombe and Enugu that pay that kind of bill...for all we know the N200 is for a one bedroom house in Gombe getting less than 4 hours of power supply, while the N40000 in Enugu is for a four bedroom getting 18 hours of supply.(per day)

2.Tarrifs as updated are below. Gombe falls under Yobe DISCO. As you can see the difference is not much.

3.The problem with Nigeria's power supply is simple. We pay for power below its cost of production....plus 40% of us don't pay at all. Don't make this a North-South thing.

Which 18hrs of light?
A room in Enugu pays an average of 7000 in a month.
In a public yard,2-3 rooms have one prepaid and are servicing it with at least 10000
every week..
It is still a north and south thing no matter how we want to dodge it.

Gaddafih001:

Which 18hrs of light?
A room in Enugu pays an average of 7000 in a month.
In a public yard,2-3 rooms have one prepaid and are servicing it with at least 10000
every week..
It is still a north and south thing no matter how we want to dodge it.

How many hours, is it on a meter or is it 'estimated' (I guess it is) plus, you haven't told us how much the people of Gombe pay for a room a month in power...plus how many hours of power does a Gomebite get compared to a Enugu resident.

Especially as according to the Tarrif regimen...gombe people pay N5 less than enugu people.

Plus, how about comparing Enugu to other cities like Kano and Kaduna.? In Abuja, estimated for a room may reach N6000 now.(Meter depends on usage)

Beancounter93:


How many hours, is it on a meter or is it 'estimated' (I guess it is) plus, you haven't told us how much the people of Gombe pay for a room a month in power...plus how many hours of power does a Gomebite get compared to a Enugu resident.

Especially as according to the Tarrif regimen...gombe people pay N5 less than enugu people.

Plus, how about comparing Enugu to other cities like Kano and Kaduna.? In Abuja, estimated for a room may reach N6000 now.(Meter depends on usage)

It’s not an estimated bill and why should I leave Gombe and compare Enugu with Kaduna or Abuja?
Is Gombe not part of Nigeria?
So some states deserves a subsidized electricity while others pays the subsidy or what?
I am not saying this to argue it.
It is what it is and it’s not fair.

Gaddafih001:

It’s not an estimated bill and why should I leave Gombe and compare Enugu with Kaduna or Abuja?
Is Gombe not part of Nigeria?
So some states deserves a subsidized electricity while others pays the subsidy or what?
I am not saying this to argue it.
It is what it is and it’s not fair.

1.Every one is on subsidized electricity

2.I think that we have proven that Gombe people pay far less for power than Enugu people...at least since the 2020 revision of the bills (and please don't argue...I think I have shown you the proof.)

3.There are also people up North who are on estimated billing as every bit expensive as Southerners.

Let's not make this a North SOuth thing. Everyone is on a subsidy for power.

Beancounter93:


1.Every one is on subsidized electricity

2.I think that we have proven that Gombe people pay far less for power than Enugu people...at least since the 2020 revision of the bills (and please don't argue...I think I have shown you the proof.)

3.There are also people up North who are on estimated billing as every bit expensive as Southerners.

Let's not make this a North SOuth thing. Everyone is on a subsidy for power.

That’s what it looks like to me..
North/South......
I am shouting because I pay through my nose and it’s painful...