Awesome01:


Now I don't agree with this summation. Messi has been all for this team for so many seasons consequtively. Performing at the top level back to back even in his worst season.

Being an introvert does not have anything to do with his performance, afterall he had been a quiet fellow even in the Guardiola/Enrique era and then we were winning all winnables.

My point is that - most of the goals that crushed us this season are counters and defensive blunders, you don't expect a striker captain to be on the ball and controlling the defense same time. The coach should in those situations be signalling or controlling his defenders on their positioning. For example, If Alba overlaps as usual who moves backward to cover for him (tactics), not error prone lenglet of course.

Messi gives away a couple of goals himself. Case in point - one of the goals that sank us against Levante. He rarely chases down opposition. We would be under attack from oppositions and Messi would be seen strolling away, head bent down. No player will be motivated to see his captain that way in a match of importance.

ddippset:
So because he is kelleting 80 million so all the responsibilities should be on him?

Then those kelleting 10 million should just quit na, let us know that only him is playing.

Since 10 million, 15 million is not money!

Lmaooo if I collect like just 1m euros, I will accept all responsibilities of the team.

jpmoriarti:
Messi gives away a couple of goals himself. Case in point - one of the goals that sank us against Levante. He rarely chases down opposition. We would be under attack from oppositions and Messi would be seen strolling away, head bent down. No player will be motivated to see his captain that way in a match of importance.

And if your best player and captain does that, whose job is it to chastise and correct him? Have u seen coaches like Zidane, Guardiola, Simeone, Tuchel etc react to goal or/and chance-missed before? You see it on their faces and actions. They stand on the touchline giving instructions especially in big games. Koeman needs to do more in this aspect, not sitting down and writing names of noise makers in his jotter.

Awesome01:

not sitting down and writing names of noise makers in his jotter.

Dutch coaches are fund of this thing in particular

You'll see them sitting down, crossing legs and be scribbling something on a piece of jotter and one will think they're some kind of master tacticians lol

jpmoriarti:
Lmaooo if I collect like just 1m euros, I will accept all responsibilities of the team.

If I hear

You come across like that kind of guy that will be working in an organization and one of your mates who's better on the job than you and is collecting more than you.

You will just be vexing 2-4-7 in the office, sabotaging him amd expecting him to do all the work.




By the way let's face it; as you are now am quite sure even if you're collecting only 5,000 Euros a week you will accept all responsibilities.

And there is hardly any of our regulars in less than 70,000.

So why can't they accept responsibilities?

ddippset:
If I hear

You come across like that kind of guy that will be working in an organization and one of your mates who's better on the job than you and is collecting more than you.

You will just be vexing 2-4-7 in the office, sabotaging him amd expecting him to do all the work.




By the way let's face it; as you are now am quite sure even if you're collecting only 5,000 Euros a week you will accept all responsibilities.

And there is hardly any of our regulars in less than 70,000.

So why can't they accept responsibilities?

Lmaooo where I am, everyone earns a fair share of what they deserve. Nothing more, nothing less.

But at Barca, Messi almost earns Nigeria military yearly budget. Jezzzzzzzzzzzz!

jpmoriarti:
Messi gives away a couple of goals himself. Case in point - one of the goals that sank us against Levante. He rarely chases down opposition. We would be under attack from oppositions and Messi would be seen strolling away, head bent down. No player will be motivated to see his captain that way in a match of importance.

What a bunkum! so instead of players focusing on the game, they would instead be watching their captain and gauging his demeanor and using that to quantify their own output. Jesus sucking sweet Mary's balls!

Messi is our best attacking outlet, so it's only logical for him to be up field for when we win back the ball so as to have an attacking option, I frankly believe that if our best attacker has to chase down balls to our own half of the field then their is no point having a midfield or defense in the first place.

jpmoriarti:

Perhaps they are not yet ready for new management. Remember they only both left management just last season. The foundations Valverde and Setien laid in Athletic Bilbao and Betis respectively, is still very much bearing fruit today. Bilbao has reached back to back copa del Rey. It didn't happen by mere chance. Betis are in the Europa league this season.

So I'm sure these coaches will find suitable clubs once they're ready to return to management.

JP, stop this. What sort of lazy excuse is this? What crazy foundation did Valverde or Setien create in their clubs?



Why didn't they build on the foundation Enrique and Pep built over the years to achieve something rather than be stupid sideline figure heads.


No right-thinking club will ever hire these two. They are serial failures.

Taguchi:


guy rest, your argument lacks merit

Completely baseless.


Gosh.

FergieRaww:


Dutch coaches are fund of this thing in particular

You'll see them sitting down, crossing legs and be scribbling something on a piece of jotter and one will think they're some kind of master tacticians lol

Van Gaal comes to mind!!!!



Those guys need to release those notes after retirement. Might as well be a best-selling book

Some Cules have decided to remain in their self delusion ! While some of finally learn to speak up.

Messi is one of the 2 greatest players the world has ever seen.

But he's a very bad Leader on and off the pitch.

We saw a video of him during halftime when Bayern Munich was gauging you guys 4-0 down...he just sat there in the dressing room. Looking lost and dejected. His head was facing down. He gave up long before the match was over.

Same thing he did against Chelsea when Torres scored that goal to make it 2-2. Even with about 1:30 left, he squats with his face buried in his palms.

And the worst of all the day he was fighting with someone young enough to be his son Joao Felix (hyperbole)
I was embarrassed that day. My respect for him dwindled.

FirstbornWds:



JP, stop this. What sort of lazy excuse is this? What crazy foundation did Valverde or Setien create in their clubs?



Why didn't they build on the foundation Enrique and Pep built over the years to achieve something rather than be stupid sideline figure heads.


No right-thinking club will ever hire these two. They are serial failures.

Lmaoo I love Enrique, don't get me wrong but the foundation he built was already crumbling before his own very eyes. Reason he quickly rounded up his bags and hurriedly left the club. We wouldn't have needed the remondata against PSG if we hadn't lost 4-0 away. Then we were roundly beaten by Juventus in the quater finals. We weren't even able to scratch them. It has been from one monumental failure in UCL to another ever since.

jpmoriarti:
Messi gives away a couple of goals himself. Case in point - one of the goals that sank us against Levante. He rarely chases down opposition. We would be under attack from oppositions and Messi would be seen strolling away, head bent down. No player will be motivated to see his captain that way in a match of importance.

You know what you're saying bro. And it takes only a true fans to say it without bias the way you're saying it....

FirstbornWds:



Completely baseless.


Gosh.

Because I am not saying what you wanna hear.

How dare I speak about Barcelona's almighty legend like that? You would say.

I love Messi as much as any cules but we can't keep doing same thing expecting different result. We need to start addressing some of these issues if we hope to move forward.

Virus99:


You know what you're saying bro. And it takes only a true fans to say it without bias the way you're saying it....

You there!! Stay away. This is not for Madridiots to get hornnyy over and have a field day.

This is Cules matter.

Virus99:
Some Cules have decided to remain in their self delusion ! While some of finally learn to speak up.

Messi is one of the 2 greatest players the world has ever seen.

But he's a very bad Leader on and off the pitch.

We saw a video of him during halftime when Bayern Munich was gauging you guys 4-0 down...he just sat there in the dressing room. Looking lost and dejected. His head was facing down. He gave up long before the match was over.

Same thing he did against Chelsea when Torres scored that goal to make it 2-2. Even with about 1:30 left, he squats with his face buried in his palms.

And the worst of all the day he was fighting with someone young enough to be his son Joao Felix (hyperbole)
I was embarrassed that day. My respect for him dwindled.

Each time he gets confronted by Ramos, he ends up panicking like a fvckin pleb

2- 0 down against Barca we saw Ronaldo in 2009 still charging his fellow Man U players to common and play...even tho ball possession was 70/30 in favor of Barca

2-0 down against Wolfsbourg, he charged his Madrid team to a 3-0 scoring 3 different types of goals (tap in, header, free kick). That night he was even busy doing throwing when Cavalja did get there on time.
He did same thing against Athletico in Juve !

And in 2016, we saw him become a "second coach" of sort infinal against France.
The odd was so stacked against them. No one thought they would do it. Worst yet, he got injured. He didn't give up. He stood at the sidelines and yelled his heart out to his team mates.

Now that's what you call leadership...on and off the pitch. The kind of one Messi is great lacking.

Virus99:
2- 0 down against Barca we saw Ronaldo in 2009 still charging his fellow Man U players to common and play...even tho ball possession was 70/30 in favor of Barca

2-0 down against Wolfsbourg, he charged his Madrid team to a 3-0 scoring 3 different types of goals (tap in, header, free kick). That night he was even busy doing throwing when Cavalja did get there on time.
He did same thing against Athletico in Juve !

And in 2016, we saw him become a "second coach" of sort infinal against France.
The odd was so stacked against them. No one thought they would do it. Worst yet, he got injured. He didn't give up. He stood at the sidelines and yelled his heart out to his team mates.

Now that's what you call leadership...on and off the pitch. The kind of one Messi is great lacking.

You forgot 2019 when he scored a hatrick against Atm after juve lost 2-0 in Spain


Goatnaldo Mr UCl

You're not presenting any formidable logic here. Not because you're saying what I don't want to hear. You are entitled to your opinion..

jpmoriarti:
Because I am not saying what you wanna hear.

How dare I speak about Barcelona's almighty legend like that? You would say.

I love Messi as much as any cules but we can't keep doing same thing expecting different result. We need to start addressing some of these issues if we hope to move forward.

Virus99:
Some Cules have decided to remain in their self delusion ! While some of finally learn to speak up.

Messi is one of the 2 greatest players the world has ever seen.

But he's a very bad Leader on and off the pitch.

We saw a video of him during halftime when Bayern Munich was gauging you guys 4-0 down...he just sat there in the dressing room. Looking lost and dejected. His head was facing down. He gave up long before the match was over.

Same thing he did against Chelsea when Torres scored that goal to make it 2-2. Even with about 1:30 left, he squats with his face buried in his palms.

And the worst of all the day he was fighting with someone young enough to be his son Joao Felix (hyperbole)
I was embarrassed that day. My respect for him dwindled.

Lol. I can show you a thousand and one clips of Ronaldo engaging in fights, useless ones at that.

FirstbornWds:
You're not presenting any formidable logic here. Not because you're saying what I don't want to hear. You are entitled to your opinion..

I am.

jpmoriarti:
Well, obviously his goals, assists etc are no longer enough for us otherwise we should be winning important matches and celebrating more titles. He must do more in leadership.

Ofcourse.....he should kill himself because he's a barcelona player. See, there comes a time when the other 10 have to step up too my brother. The Liverpool game, Dude put us in a postion to be 3, 4 and 5 nil up but alas his teammates missed lots of chances he created for them. Even when they went to Anfield the same thing happened.

jpmoriarti:
Lmaooo if I collect like just 1m euros, I will accept all responsibilities of the team.

..

Lol....and we'd see how much you'd be able to do.

Wijnaldum - 30 years...

Aguero - 32 years...

-------------- - 34 years

Messi is not a good leader compared to Ronaldo, but he makes up for it..

The fact that Messi is not a good leader is not the reason we are losing shamelessly.. the team mentality is just poor, Messi inclusive!

Virus99:
2- 0 down against Barca we saw Ronaldo in 2009 still charging his fellow Man U players to common and play...even tho ball possession was 70/30 in favor of Barca

2-0 down against Wolfsbourg, he charged his Madrid team to a 3-0 scoring 3 different types of goals (tap in, header, free kick). That night he was even busy doing throwing when Cavalja did get there on time.
He did same thing against Athletico in Juve !

And in 2016, we saw him become a "second coach" of sort infinal against France.
The odd was so stacked against them. No one thought they would do it. Worst yet, he got injured. He didn't give up. He stood at the sidelines and yelled his heart out to his team mates.

Now that's what you call leadership...on and off the pitch. The kind of one Messi is great lacking.

This write up would undoubtedly win the UNICEF award for best National essay 2021.

But you forgot to tell us what he did when they were losing 2-1 to tiny Ajax, losing 1-0 to small Lyon, losing 2-1 to Porto and his team gettting dumoed out of UCL. MR superman was supposed to shout and show leadership and save his team na.

What about losing 2-1 to Uruguay at the World Cup?. Mr leadeleadership was supposed to motivate has team to beat Uruguay na.

Since it is no longer football but motivball.

Senseless post!

Virus99:
Some Cules have decided to remain in their self delusion ! While some of finally learn to speak up.

Messi is one of the 2 greatest players the world has ever seen.

But he's a very bad Leader on and off the pitch.

We saw a video of him during halftime when Bayern Munich was gauging you guys 4-0 down...he just sat there in the dressing room. Looking lost and dejected. His head was facing down. He gave up long before the match was over.

Same thing he did against Chelsea when Torres scored that goal to make it 2-2. Even with about 1:30 left, he squats with his face buried in his palms.

And the worst of all the day he was fighting with someone young enough to be his son Joao Felix (hyperbole)
I was embarrassed that day. My respect for him dwindled.

We saw a video of Ronaldo during the half time when Barca was gauging them 5-0.
He was so dejected but still made out time looking at the dressing room mirror, parting his hair and doing something that looked like his make up.

We saw a video of Ronaldo during the 2015, 5- 0 demolition by Athletico Madrid.
He was speechless ad his face had turned red like some tomato ketchup.

We again saw the 2011 Copa Del Rey final defeat by Athletico Madrid when he was losing and turned it into a fight by giving Miranda or so, a karate kick and was red carded, causing a melee amongst the 2 squads with Mourinho and Simeone involved.

Above are only a few of the times Ronaldo saved his team by putting up top notch leadership attributes as opposed to that midget Messi who lacks any aorta of leadership skills.

ddippset:
This write would undoubtedly win the UNICEF award for best National essay 2021.

But you forgot to tell us what he did when they were losing 2-1 to tiny Ajax, losing 1-0 to small Lyon, losing 2-1 to Porto and losing 2-1 to Uruguay.

No.... His leadership quality went to oblivion cloud then.



All of this charging and shouting are obvious rubbish when your teammates are not willing to win.


Ronaldo was out of the team that won the Euros 2016 final, but people forget that was the time Renato Sanchez appeared to be the next best thing.

The team knew they needed to win to shame the world of football that wrote them off. This team held on favorite France and had them till extra time until when Eder struck. Not forgetting that this same team qualified as Best losers and had gone to win some wonderful games with penalty shoot-outs.


Portugal has a team that was clearly hungry and Ronaldo was just an additional monk to the equation.


Enough of this trashy talk of shouting your lungs out. Like someone rightly said, Puyol was a screamer, charger and whatever but then Barcelona was still not winning anything. But Ronny came and helped us achieved something. Was he shouting, or screaming his lungs out? Obviously No...


Rather his game and mentality of play was what made the difference. Now, Messi has consistently been up to that and always proving to the team that he's worth every leader. With Roma, he had scored excellent goals to seal off everything for us..


With Liverpool, he scored the competitions' most amazing goals that should have cemented everything for us to the final but when his teammates should step up and back his efforts up, they chickened out and failed, but some peeps still want to pin it on his inability to always scream.
.
If after proving to these guys that he's the best by scoring decisive goals to put us upfront is not enough motivation, then the team is not worth anything. Something else should be done.

FirstbornWds:



No.... His leadership quality went to oblivion cloud then.



All of this charging and shouting are obvious rubbish when your teammates are not willing to win.


Ronaldo was out of the team that won the Euros 2016 final, but people forget that was the time Renato Sanchez appeared to be the next best thing.

The team knew they needed to win to shame the world of football that wrote them off. This team held on favorite France and had them till extra time until when Eder struck. Not forgetting that this same team qualified as Best losers and had gone to win some wonderful games with penalty shoot-outs.


Portugal has a team that was clearly hungry and Ronaldo was just an additional monk to the equation.


Enough of this trashy talk of shouting your lungs out. Like someone rightly said, Puyol was a screamer, charger and whatever but then Barcelona was still not winning anything. But Ronny came and helped us achieved something. Was he shouting, or screaming his lungs out? Obviously No...


Rather his game and mentality of play was what made the difference. Now, Messi has consistently been up to that and always proving to the team that he's worth every leader. With Roma, he had scored excellent goals to seal off everything for us..


With Liverpool, he scored the competitions' most amazing goals that should have cemented everything for us to the final but when his teammates should step up and back his efforts up, they chickened out and failed, but some peeps still want to pin it on his inability to always scream.
.
If after proving to these guys that he's the best by scoring decisive goals to put us upfront is not enough motivation, then the team is not worth anything. Something else should be done.

You have good points. I'm just tired mehn. Our team today do not inspire any confidence. I might accuse Messi all I want but the squad is not just up to scratch. Little quality. Little hunger. Messi keeps dragging the team but it is like dragging a dead horse. I am charging Messi to do more in leadership but I know it is more complicated than that.

FirstbornWds:



No.... His leadership quality went to oblivion cloud then.



All of this charging and shouting are obvious rubbish when your teammates are not willing to win.


Ronaldo was out of the team that won the Euros 2016 final, but people forget that was the time Renato Sanchez appeared to be the next best thing.

The team knew they needed to win to shame the world of football that wrote them off. This team held on favorite France and had them till extra time until when Eder struck. Not forgetting that this same team qualified as Best losers and had gone to win some wonderful games with penalty shoot-outs.


Portugal has a team that was clearly hungry and Ronaldo was just an additional monk to the equation.


Enough of this trashy talk of shouting your lungs out. Like someone rightly said, Puyol was a screamer, charger and whatever but then Barcelona was still not winning anything. But Ronny came and helped us achieved something. Was he shouting, or screaming his lungs out? Obviously No...


Rather his game and mentality of play was what made the difference. Now, Messi has consistently been up to that and always proving to the team that he's worth every leader. With Roma, he had scored excellent goals to seal off everything for us..


With Liverpool, he scored the competitions' most amazing goals that should have cemented everything for us to the final but when his teammates should step up and back his efforts up, they chickened out and failed, but some peeps still want to pin it on his inability to always scream.
.
If after proving to these guys that he's the best by scoring decisive goals to put us upfront is not enough motivation, then the team is not worth anything. Something else should be done.

Very well said.

Fact is; we have witnessed countless teams which had very vocal and strong leadership but failed woefully on the pitch and won nothing.

Also we have seen many teams which had no vocal and reserved captains but won a lot.


This talk about leadership.being the major problem is just a very invalid excuse for failure.

If anything leadership accounts for not more than 1 percent of the success.

We have to talk about good players.
Then a good team.
Then a good coach.
Then a good club management.
Before we even begin to talk about leadership or no leadership.
It is exaggerated.

Even when we talk about leadership and being vocal and screaming instructions,

What is the role of the coach standing on the touchline?
What?

For me it is not the role of the captain to even shout and motivate the players. It is the coach.

What is the reason for the coach standing on the sidelines? It's not like he's far away from his players on the pitch.

Watch Guordioala, watch Mourinho, watch Someone, watch Conte, watch SAF.

With such coaches I don't think jp and co will still be looking for who to goan motivate a bunch a adult footballers.

jpmoriarti:
You have good points. I'm just tired mehn. Our team today do not inspire any confidence. I might accuse Messi all I want but the squad is not just up to scratch. Little quality. Little hunger. Messi keeps dragging the team but it is like dragging a dead horse. I am charging Messi to do more in leadership but I know it is more complicated than that.

Then why all this epistles? You watched in 2019 when Messi castigated Vidal for cutting back a throughball he was meant to shoot against Liverpool in the first leg, or when he was appealing to lahoz (can't remember the liga match) that dembele didn't understand Spanish when he was shown a straight red card for something he said, You just look at the times his head was bowed down cause the cameras show you that But they'll not show you when he was pointing to players to position themselves in specific positions when he was off the ball or discussing with players on the touchline. Messi should play his football and do the same for others as if they are babies or are not getting paid. It's because he hasn't left yet na

jpmoriarti:
Lmaoo I love Enrique, don't get me wrong but the foundation he built was already crumbling before his own very eyes. Reason he quickly rounded up his bags and hurriedly left the club. We wouldn't have needed the remondata against PSG if we hadn't lost 4-0 away. Then we were roundly beaten by Juventus in the quater finals. We weren't even able to scratch them. It has been from one monumental failure in UCL to another ever since.

He won 8 trophies out of 10 in 3yrs, delivered the second club treble and you are saying he left because his foundation was crumbling, Guardiola and Zidane left after trophy laden campaigns, were you told their foundations were crumbling, Was it not Neymar's departure from the MSN the following season he left, pathetic failures to replace him and valverde's sojourns in Europe that did all that. Wonderful