A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed.  As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation.  They talked about so many things and various subjects.  When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said:  'I don't believe that God exists.'  'Why do you say that?' asked the customer. 'Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn't exist.  Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people?  Would there be abandoned children?  If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain.  I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of these things.'  The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument.  The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop.  Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard.  He looked dirty and unkempt. The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to the barber:  'You know what? Barbers do not exist.'  'How can you say that?' asked the surprised barber.  'I am here, and I am a barber. And I just worked on you!'  'No!' the customer exclaimed. 'Barbers don't exist because  if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside.'  'Ah, but barbers DO exist! That's what happens when people do not come to me.'  'Exactly!' affirmed the customer. 'That's the point! God, too, DOES exist!  That's what happens when people do not go to Him and don't look to Him for help.  That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world.

hehe beautiful.

@ OP ,
Thanks for the illustration cos many just stay and wait forgetting that He trully exists.GOD BLESS U

Hebrews 11:6b, for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

@simply:tanks for ur comment,infact people don't know wat they are missing without God in their life.

even nature attest to the fact that God exist and only a fool would suggest otherwise

nice



bright007:

A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed.  As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation.  They talked about so many things and various subjects.  When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said:  'I don't believe that God exists.'  'Why do you say that?' asked the customer. 'Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn't exist.  Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people?  Would there be abandoned children?  If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain.  I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of these things.'  The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument.  The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop.  Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard.  He looked dirty and unkempt. The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to the barber:  'You know what? Barbers do not exist.'  'How can you say that?' asked the surprised barber.  'I am here, and I am a barber. And I just worked on you!'  'No!' the customer exclaimed. 'Barbers don't exist because  if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside.'  'Ah, but barbers DO exist! That's what happens when people do not come to me.'  'Exactly!' affirmed the customer. 'That's the point! God, too, DOES exist!  That's what happens when people do not go to Him and don't look to Him for help.  That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world.

Ah ah aha ah, that’s awesome brother, must people think God exist for them; (i.e. if God exist at all). Little do They know we exist for him not him for we.
1 Corinthians 7:23 (King James Version)Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.

bright007:

A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed.  As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation.  They talked about so many things and various subjects.  When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said:  'I don't believe that God exists.'  'Why do you say that?' asked the customer. 'Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn't exist.  Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people?  Would there be abandoned children?  If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain.  I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of these things.'  The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument.  The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop.  Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard.  He looked dirty and unkempt. The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to the barber:  'You know what? Barbers do not exist.'  'How can you say that?' asked the surprised barber.  'I am here, and I am a barber. And I just worked on you!'  'No!' the customer exclaimed. 'Barbers don't exist because  if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside.'  'Ah, but barbers DO exist! That's what happens when people do not come to me.'  'Exactly!' affirmed the customer. 'That's the point! God, too, DOES exist!  That's what happens when people do not go to Him and don't look to Him for help.  That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world.

Sorry O but this is a logical fallacy, also known as a strawman argument. You're right that the presence of suffering in the world does not disprove the existence of God anymore than beards disprove barbers. It could be that God simply can't be bothered to help people. Perhaps he's cruel and unfeeling. Maybe he's busy playing Ludo with Jesus. Maybe he's not really omnipotent and he can't do anything about it. There are plenty of possible explanations as to why God allows suffering in the world.

Why this is a logical fallacy is that you shouldn't have to disprove the existence of God any more than you should have to prove that you don't have an invisible pink octopus on your head. The principle of parsimony (aka Occam's razor) states that you shouldn't make up an imaginary factor unless there is no simpler way to explain your observations. Modern physics and evolutionary biology have given us simple, natural explanations for practically all the phenomena that used to be attributed to God so as far as I'm concerned, he does not exist.

If I were to witness something that could not be explained in any other way (e.g. If fire and brimstone were to rain down on the National Assembly Complex, killing all the thieves inside), then I'll gladly change my mind.

Cheers.

bright007:

A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed.  As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation.  They talked about so many things and various subjects.  When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said:  'I don't believe that God exists.'  'Why do you say that?' asked the customer. 'Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn't exist.  Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people?  Would there be abandoned children?  If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain.  I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of these things.'  The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument.  The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop.  Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard.  He looked dirty and unkempt. The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to the barber:  'You know what? Barbers do not exist.'  'How can you say that?' asked the surprised barber.  'I am here, and I am a barber. And I just worked on you!'  'No!' the customer exclaimed. 'Barbers don't exist because  if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside.'  'Ah, but barbers DO exist! That's what happens when people do not come to me.'  'Exactly!' affirmed the customer. 'That's the point! God, too, DOES exist!  That's what happens when people do not go to Him and don't look to Him for help.  That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world.

The first question I would ask is which God is being referred to?
If it is the Christian God, then it is a bad analogy because that God is supposed to at least be good, just, omnipotent and merciful. These qualities would preclude evil if that God existed. But, a barber being a human does not necessarily have the ability to shave all humans.

thehomer:

The first question I would ask is which God is being referred to?
If it is the Christian God, then it is a bad analogy because that God is supposed to at least be good, just, omnipotent and merciful. These qualities would preclude evil if that God existed. But, a barber being a human does not necessarily have the ability to shave all humans.

@ thehomer,
Your premises do not lead to your conclusion and hence your argument is not sound. Granted that God has the power to barb or shave all humans. But justice demands that He shaves only those willing to be shaved, or those asking for Him to shave them. If HE forcibly shaves everybody, even those not willing to be shaved, then He would have infringed their free-will; such will make Him an unjust dictator. But you agreed in your premise that He is supposed to be just, and merciful. A just and merciful ruler will not interfere with the free-will of His subjects; such interference would contradict justice, the very fabric that the ruler is made of. For God is justice as much as He is love.

You see why your argument is not sound? The analogy at the OP is not only brilliant and thought-provoking, it is also very sound.


As always, thanks.

justcool:

@ thehomer,
Your premises do not lead to your conclusion and hence your argument is not sound. Granted that God has the power to barb or shave all humans. But justice demands that He shaves only those willing to be shaved, or those asking for Him to shave them. If HE forcibly shaves everybody, even those not willing to be shaved, then He would have infringed their free-will; such will make Him an unjust dictator. But you agreed in your premise that He is supposed to be just, and merciful. A just and merciful ruler will not interfere with the free-will of His subjects; such interference would contradict justice, the very fabric that the ruler is made of. For God is justice as much as He is love.

You see why your argument is not sound? The analogy at the OP is not only brilliant and thought-provoking, it is also very sound.


As always, thanks.

Sorry but you have mixed the analogies up. The stuff about the shaving is the analogy drawn up about the relationship between God and humans. According to the analogy, God would be the barber while people will be the unshaved. Comparing God to the barber fails quickly based on what I said above. And of course there is more than one barber but how many Gods do [b]you [/b]think are available?
You need to realize that a single entity claiming to be both just and merciful is directly contradictory. Consider the meaning of justice which is getting ones due recompense while mercy is allowing one to escape their due punishment.
Before I respond to the issue of free will, I'd like to ask will there be free will in heaven?

@poster:thanks for your brilliant $ simple analysis.
@thehomer:u have simply failed to understand simple logic.
Even if there are more than one barber,do we have Å separate group who go about begging for people to barb?they all wait in their separate locations and $ wait for those willing to be barbed.So also it is with God,it is only those that come to him dat are his children.
@evil brain:from your conclusion,u said God does not exist.But here is Å simple question for u.CAN SOMETHING COME FROM NOTHING?
All the things in d world incluuding urself could not have happened by accident.Someone who existed b4 all these things must have created them $ u.don't u think the world would be unsafe without God.If we are to accept the opinion that there is no God,it means life is meaningless as there would be nobody that knows the mystery of man and the world.But because there is Å being called God who knows everything,we are rest assured that he created us for Å purpose best known to him $ he is d only one dat determine our existence.

saddler:

. . . .
@thehomer:u have simply failed to understand simple logic.
Even if there are more than one barber,do we have Å separate group who go about begging for peiple to barb?they all wait in their separate locations and $ wait for those willing to be barbed.So also it is with God,it is only those that come to him dat are his children.

I failed to understand simple logic? Please explain. I also hope that you read my previous posts on this. See here
Then please let me know the God that you think is being referred to.

saddler:

@evil brain:from your conclusion,u said God does not exist.But here is Å simple question for u.CAN SOMETHING COME FROM NOTHING?
All the things in d world incluuding urself could have happened by accident.Someone who existed b4 all these things must have created them $ u.

How is something coming from nothing relevant here?

*Nice analysis*
@ťĥĕhomer-The God being referred to here is ťĥĕ Almighty God.One of ťĥĕ reason we have many barbers is because one man cant barb ťĥĕ whole world but ťĥĕ position of God is for him alone:Now looking at ťĥĕ functions of ťĥĕ two in comparison,its obvious that there is å similitude in function.Though there are many barbers but they all have ťĥĕ same mode of function:get å space,build $ equip it,then wait for customers to come in.As for God,He is invisible to us but ťĥĕ only way to get him is by seeking for him through ťĥĕ bible $ prayers which is analogous to å man going to look for where to barb his hair.Hope u got ťĥĕ point now?

bright007:

*Nice analysis*
@ťĥĕhomer-The God being referred to here is ťĥĕ Almighty God.One of ťĥĕ reason we have many barbers is because one man cant barb ťĥĕ whole world but ťĥĕ position of God is for him alone:Now looking at ťĥĕ functions of ťĥĕ two in comparison,its obvious that there is å similitude in function.Though there are many barbers but they all have ťĥĕ same mode of function:get å space,build $ equip it,then wait for customers to come in.As for God,He is invisible to us but ťĥĕ only way to get him is by seeking for him through ťĥĕ bible $ prayers which is analogous to å man going to look for where to barb his hair.Hope u got ťĥĕ point now?

That is why I said your analogy was a bad one because the barber simply does not meet any of your God's properties or abilities.

justcool:

A just and merciful ruler will not interfere with the free-will of His subjects;

you know that aint true

saddler:

@evil brain:from your conclusion,u said God does not exist.But here is Å simple question for u.CAN SOMETHING COME FROM NOTHING?

That is what the big bang theory is all about. There is plenty of scientific evidence that the universe arose from nothing about 14 billion years ago. There is no evidence that an invisible man in the sky was responsible for creating it.

All the things in d world incluuding urself could not  have happened by accident.Someone who existed b4 all these things must have created them $ u.don't u think the world would be unsafe without God.If we are to accept the opinion that there is no God,it means life is meaningless as there would be nobody that knows the mystery of man and the world.But because there is Å being called God who knows everything,we are rest assured that he created us for Å purpose best known to him $ he is d only one dat determine our existence.

Abiogenesis is the study of the origin of life. Its is not yet fully established when or how the first molecule that could make copies of itself arose on earth but there are plenty of far more sensible explanations than "the man in the sky did it". In any case, once self-replicating molecules exist anywhere, spontaneous mutations and natural selection will inevitably lead to diversification and evolution. That is where you and me and all other living things on earth came from.

We no longer need God to explain where new species come from. Its been demonstrated hundreds of times in the lab and in natural environments. The theory of evolution is possibly the best established theory in all of science. The proof is so overwhelming that you have to be willfully blind to deny it. You can see the stuff happening all around you. Have you ever heard of Chloroquine-resistant malaria? That's a product of evolution that happened within the last 20 years. Sickle-cell disease emerged as a protection against malaria just a few thousand years ago (People who are AS hardly get sick). Imagine how much a species could change in a hundred thousand years! Or a million?

Like I said before, there's no need invoke God when there are far simpler explanations for everything. Occam's razor!

Evil Brain:

That is what the big bang theory is all about. There is plenty of scientific evidence that the universe arose from nothing about 14 billion years ago. There is no evidence that an invisible man in the sky was responsible for creating it.

A small point of correction. The big band does not suggest that the Universe arose from nothing. It suggest that the Universe expanded from a compressed state. The theory still assumes the conservation of energy/matter/momentum(i.e you cannot get something from nothing). If anything the the conservation laws suggest that the Universe has always existed in some form. There is no reason to posit that the Universe needed to be created in the first place if we are going by scientific observations.