Tonye-t:

Now if Jesus was connected to the order of an ancient spiritual priest, dont you think tithing should be made to refer to how this ancient priest collected his own?

sir, it would be nice to truly understand the connection Jesus has with the order of an ancient spiritual priest You have only told us there is a connection, zikkyy need to know how. for example, it's not enough to say Rev. King is a pastor and therefore annoited MOG abi

Tonye-t:

. . . . and abandoned the tithing according to their customs (i.e. the way Moses said they should give it)

Tonye-t:

How did they tithe? the way Moses said they should!

Oga Tonye, no vex, just reading these posts. I see you refer to the mosaic tithe as custom. Are you saying it was Moses that instructed the isrealites to tithe i.e are you saying it waas not the Almighty that required tithe of the other eleven tribes

The reason why most of you continue to argue with Tonye-t is because you think that he is ignorant of the truth and that you can somehow make him see the truth with a persistent superior argument. That perhaps he is  like Saul just before he became Paul who pursued with great zeal a wrong path  sincerely believing it to be God's work that he was doing and  God saw the sincerity in his  heart  and mercifully steered him towards the right path which he pursued with an even greater zeal thereby bringing glory and honor to God. The fact is that Tonye-t is a  hypocrite like the pharisees of Jesus' day and just like them he knows the truth about tithing but the truth  does not interest him. He continues to spread this falsehood about tithes because he profits from it and he will do anything to keep as many people as he can in bondage weighing them down as it were a heavy yoke.

dorox:

The fact is that Tonye-t is a hypocrite like the pharisees of Jesus' day and just like them he knows the truth about tithing but the truth does not interest him. He continues to spread this falsehood about tithes because he profits from it and he will do anything to keep as many people as he can in bondage weighing them down as it were a heavy yoke.

we are fully aware. But that's not the reason i argue with him. I just need him to shut da f_ck up he's spreading too much poison here.

@Tonye tithing-t, where are you i need response to my questions please

Please lets continue "discussing" with T-Tithes. It reveals so much scheming, lying and manipulation - I just pray he does not go back & change/delete his posts and me too would like to see what acrobatics he intends to use with Zikky's questions

@Tonye-T:

Ride on, bro - your car needs a younger brother so ,  ,  ,  Hope to see you soon on "autos"

Tonye-t:

And just again I say quote me! You've not asked any question. . .the one you did was answered!

My, how you twist and turn to avoid answering this simple question:

aletheia:

Are you tithing the way Moses said you the children of Israel should tithe?

I am still waiting for my answer. Let me also add two more questions:
Are you tithing the way Abraham tithed?
Did Jesus Christ pay tithes?

Tonye-t where are you its too early in the year to proceed on your annual pilgrimage to Greece o respond to my questions before you go abeg

^^^
Tonye-tithe probably doesn't even have a passport talk less of visa to Greece, plus dem no fit fleece the Greeks now since majority of them are Orthodox Christians.

Loading up on his meds maybe

Please stop all this false stuff. Why tithing is even as this important in todays's christianity is what I m still searching answers for. If it were this important Jesus must have taught on it. Brother Paul, whose teachings teachings form the foundation of christianity didnt even mention it for once. but today's church has made it the most important ting in the bible. Its absolutely fraud. Giving to the Lord cheerfully is the real thing not necessarily tithing. the most important thing is to get to that point where u can give ur all to God and not out of compulsion. Many people's tithes are just only acceptable to their pastors and not to God.

Tonye-t:

@Zikkyy, Aletheia et al,

we'll field your questions. . .tied up with official projects.

How many of una you dey come with your pastor i dey wait

. . .still waiting
. . .waiting for Godot Tonye-t

Fourthly,

lets see this:

15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment (Mosaic's), but after the power of an endless life.


Now if Jesus was connected to the order of an ancient spiritual priest, dont you think tithing should be made to refer to how this ancient priest collected his own?

Recall it was the laws of Moses that was made disannulled not the "order of melchisedec".

Now this my friend is the reason why today we can pay tithes in any mode (i.e. Money, cars, time, service, shelter, cloths etc.) because by reference to Abraham's time, bible said he gave the priest a tenth of ALL he possessed which means Abraham gave gold, silvers, cattles, sheep ETC.

Genesis 14:20 - And blessed be God Most High, who has defeated your enemies for you." Then Abram gave Melchizedek a tenth of all the goods he had recovered

I thought i will not be talking on this issue of tithing anymore if not for the fact that your write up here made a little sense (disregarding all other write-up on why we should pay tithes which were to me senseless)

But i have a little doubt or questions to the sense you are making here. Honestly i have been reading most of the tithing posts to find just someone to convince me to pay tithe and for ones u nearly did.

Like you said Tonye-T, of which i agree, that Jesus' priest hood was of the order of Melchizedek and not like other priests. And Abraham paid tithe to Melchizedek and the manner with which he paid it was different from that commanded by Moses. Your argument like i am made to understand, is that we could also pay our tithe in cash and other stuff (unlike fruits and food as the law commanded). But i want us to take a look at something from the same Genesis passage you quoted:

16 And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people. EBD NTB SBD
17 And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that were with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king's dale. EBD NTB SBD TTT
18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. EBD NTB SBD TTT
19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: EBD NTB SBD TTT
20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

Now Abraham gave the tithe of all his plunder (except that which belonged to the kingdom of sodom) to Melchizedek which included silver etc. No doubt. And you said "it was the laws of Moses that was made disannulled not the "order of melchisedec". " on which you base your argument that we should still pay tithe and even cash wise as well. So my question is this:

1. Why do our "pastors" still use Malachi 3 (which i guess was addressing tithing practiced according to the laws of Moses) to justify their collection of our monies. . . And they use that to threaten curses on us?

2. Was Abraham in any was forced to give his tithe to " Priest Mel"? To me i guess it was just voluntary and willing "giving" or "offereing" in appreciation of the blessing rained on him by "priest Mel" as you can see from the passage above. This could be further substanciated by the fact that there was no other record before then of Abrahams tithing. This does not mean he never had any produce from his fields as we are meant to understand he was a wealthy man.

3. Was there any record of Jesus (who is the Most high priest of the order of "priest Mel", or maybe His immediate disciples) collecting tithes (especially as practiced today) from people when He was still on earth? (i think as the Most high priest he deserves to collect more and even make it compulsory more than "Priest Mel".

I have other questions as well. But if u answer these satisfactorily, i will start paying my tithes (and maybe calculate the ones i have owed to include in it).

Tithing as practiced today is a far cry from what God wants. God has always hammers on willing offering or giving. He has not forced anything on mankind.

and just a wild thought, does your pastor pay tithe and to whom does he pay the tithe?

First of all, people who think that they are "tithing" today actually are NOT, because the Old Covenant does not even exist anymore.

When Jesus died on the Cross and rose on the 3rd day, He discarded the Old Covenant and established the NEW COVENANT. The Old Covenant [including its tithing laws] does not exist anymore. Born-again Christians are under the NEW COVENANT.

The book of Hebrews says that the Old Covenant is OBSOLETE. The word "obsolete" means "no longer in use, discarded, out-moded, out of date, out of practice, not current, worn out, or no longer active." The Old Covenant [ALL of it] is gone. God moved on from that covenant about 2,000 years ago - and today He is operating in the New Covenant, which is based on grace, faith, love, and being Spirit-led (which requires being born-again and having a personal relationship with Him). People who think that they are "tithing" need to come out of the old, and come into the NEW.

People who think that they are "tithing" today are actually obeying a false tradition, which I call "The Tithing Scam." Basically, the Tithing Scam says that "God wants you to bring 10% of your money to a church-building, ministry, or religious leader. And if you do, He will bless you. But if you do not, God will curse you." This teaching is not from Christ and the apostles. It is a man-made teaching hiding behind a form of godliness.

The Tithing Scam hides behind Scripture-twisting and all types of christianese sayings about giving and prosperity. Yet it is a false tradition, and Jesus hates false traditions no matter how much Scripture and Christianese sayings are twisted around them. Jesus is the Truth (John 14:6), and if you are born-again you will love the truth and strive to obey the truth. Obeying the truth is what makes you a disciple of Jesus and sets you free from sin. Obeying false traditions keep you in bondage to sin and error. It prevents the Word of God from fully impacting your heart, mind, and even your family (if you are married and/or have children). There are many negative consequences to obeying a false tradition. I cannot name them all here.

Below, I will show a few differences between Old Covenant tithing and the Tithing Scam. . . .

Old Covenant Tithing - commanded about 23-29%. The Tithing Scam - commands 10%.

Old Covenant Tithing - only commanded upon Israelites involved in agriculture [excluding the POOR] and the Levitical priests. The Tithing Scam - commanded upon everyone, including the poor.

Old Covenant Tithing - the Israelites who were able to tithe had to tithe PRODUCE [i.e., meat, grain, oil, wine, etc]. Sometimes they were commanded to EAT their tithe. The Tithing Scam - commands people to give MONEY, never produce, and of course they are never commanded to eat their own tithe.

Old Covenant Tithing - tithes had to be brought to the Jewish temple in Jerusalem, to a Levitical priest only. The Tithing Scam - people are commanded to bring their money to a church-building [church-buildings are NOT Jewish temples lol] or pay it online to some type of religious leader [who is NOT a Levitical priest] or religious organization.

Old Covenant Tithing - the Israelites who were able to tithe did not tithe often - they were only commanded to tithe a few times per year, and on an annual cycle. There were about 2-3 different tithes, each for different purposes (to support the poor, to store up produce for festivals, and to support the Levitical priests who worked in the temple). The Tithing Scam - commands people to tithe every month.

Old Covenant Tithing - originated from God, to provide for His people (especially the poor). The Tithing Scam - originated from religious leaders around the 4th century, to provide for themselves [on the backs of the poor and unsuspecting people].

Old Covenant Tithing - was clearly practiced in Scripture [before the Crucifixion]. The Tithing Scam - was not practiced anywhere in the Bible. This concept was unknown and absent among the early Christians of the New Testament. The Tithing Scam didn't exist until the apostles and their students died off, and a new breed of "church leadership" jumped behind the steering wheel of the church and took over. The seeds of deception were planted centuries ago, and here we are today with people posting forums about "How To Reap The Full Benefits of Tithing." Satan is overjoyed that some of God's people are so captivated by this false tradition, yet the Spirit of God is grieved and He is opening people's eyes to this financial fraud which pretends to be "Biblical Tithing."

If you think that you are "tithing" - you are not. You are obeying a false tradition, twisting Scripture to support it, and ultimately disobeying Jesus. You don't have to take my word for it. "Test all things" (1 Thessalonians 5:21). Pray and do your own research on Biblical tithing and New Covenant giving.

We can study about Old Covenant tithing to gain knowledge, but we cannot PRACTICE it because it doesn't even exist anymore.

If you are a born-again Christian, then you are under the NEW COVENANT. And in the New Covenant, we give 1) by faith 2) from a cheerful heart 3) as led by the Holy Spirit. This new way of giving does not flow out of the Old Covenant. It flows out of having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

Spirit-led giving shows that you are a son of God, because "those who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God." Are you led by the Spirit of God? Or are you led by the Old Covenant?

Spirit-led giving glorifies Jesus Christ, because it is directed by His Spirit (who testifies of Jesus & glorifies Him).

Spirit-led giving is SUPERIOR to Old Covenant tithing, just as Christ is superior to Moses, and the New Covenant is superior to the Old Covenant. Spirit-led giving out of faith, love, and a cheerful heart is SUPERIOR to giving out of compulsion (i.e. tithing).

Spirit-led giving gives us the liberty and freedom to sacrifice as much as we cheerfully desire. This includes the freedom to sell everything that we have and distribute the profits among one another, as anyone has need (like the early Christians did in the book of Acts). Through this sacrificial new way of giving - God can pour out an abundance among His people so that there is equality, and no one lacks or has need.

The Tithing Scam on the other hand TAKES AWAY your liberty and freedom to sacrifice as much as you cheerfully desire. It restricts you and limits you to 10%, which may not be enough for your congregation's needs. God cannot pour out an abundance when there is no freedom in the Spirit to give as much as He leads you to. God knows how much the congregation needs, and He can meet these needs ONLY if there is liberty in the Spirit for Him to lead us in our giving. The Tithing Scam takes away liberty in the Spirit. It comes against God's desire to freely and personally lead you in your giving. It comes against the New Covenant principle of sacrifice (laying down all that you have for a fellow Christian or even an enemy). When there is no freedom to be Spirit-led in your giving - God cannot pour out an abundance and bring equality in a congregation so that no one lacks. But instead, there will be dramatic inequalities - such as a few members being very rich and comfortable, while the rest of the congregation struggles to make ends meet. This type of inequality does not glorify Christ or show that Christians love one another. It does not bear witness of the Gospel. It does not bear witness of Heaven. It looks just like the world where dramatic inequalities exist between the "haves" and the "have nots."

@freeindeed
Very well and articulately written however I am afraid that agents of mamon abound on this forum who are beneficiaries of the tithing fraud. However I commend your effort and encourage you to continue to enlighten folks on the truth about this modern day fraud.

So like kunleoshob

FreeIndeed:

First of all, people who think that they are "tithing" today actually are NOT, because the Old Covenant does not even exist anymore.

When Jesus died on the Cross and rose on the 3rd day, He discarded the Old Covenant and established the NEW COVENANT. The Old Covenant [including its tithing laws] does not exist anymore. Born-again Christians are under the NEW COVENANT.

The book of Hebrews says that the Old Covenant is OBSOLETE. The word "obsolete" means "no longer in use, discarded, out-moded, out of date, out of practice, not current, worn out, or no longer active." The Old Covenant [ALL of it] is gone. God moved on from that covenant about 2,000 years ago - and today He is operating in the New Covenant, which is based on grace, faith, love, and being Spirit-led (which requires being born-again and having a personal relationship with Him). People who think that they are "tithing" need to come out of the old, and come into the NEW.

People who think that they are "tithing" today are actually obeying a false tradition, which I call "The Tithing Scam." Basically, the Tithing Scam says that "God wants you to bring 10% of your money to a church-building, ministry, or religious leader. And if you do, He will bless you. But if you do not, God will curse you." This teaching is not from Christ and the apostles. It is a man-made teaching hiding behind a form of godliness.

The Tithing Scam hides behind Scripture-twisting and all types of christianese sayings about giving and prosperity. Yet it is a false tradition, and Jesus hates false traditions no matter how much Scripture and Christianese sayings are twisted around them. Jesus is the Truth (John 14:6), and if you are born-again you will love the truth and strive to obey the truth. Obeying the truth is what makes you a disciple of Jesus and sets you free from sin. Obeying false traditions keep you in bondage to sin and error. It prevents the Word of God from fully impacting your heart, mind, and even your family (if you are married and/or have children). There are many negative consequences to obeying a false tradition. I cannot name them all here.

. . . . . . . . . .


If you think that you are "tithing" - you are not. You are obeying a false tradition, twisting Scripture to support it, and ultimately disobeying Jesus. You don't have to take my word for it. "Test all things" (1 Thessalonians 5:21). Pray and do your own research on Biblical tithing and New Covenant giving.

Very good post, freeindeed.

Incredibly, however,some of this forum's resident tithes scammers have even told us that there is nowhere in the New Testament that {"Christians"} are told to obey God! Incredibly also, they have told us similarly that Jesus' teachings are not for "born again(ist?) Christians" because "Jesus did not function in the New Testament" and that the New Testament did not begin until after Jesus' death! Yet the scammers in the same shameless self-contradictory and fraudulent breath turn around and tell us that Jesus encouraged "tithing" for the Christian. Yet the scammers also shamelessly and fraudulently say tithing is a law that must be followed ("doing the word" and that the "law" of sowing and reaping especially to pastors or into "church" is an "eternal" law that must be followed ("do the word"! And to cap it all these two latter laws are more important than Jesus' royal commandment to love because they say that that Jesus' commandment is not for "Christians", that it is not even a commandment and there is no duty to obey it.

In fact for those who still believe that "tithing" is an obligation and a condition that must be obeyed before being blessed, well believe that no more. Here is the good news according to Oyakhilome: you are already blessed unconditionally and you don't need to obey God to be blessed with these blessings. What is more, as Oyaks' disciples tell us, these blessing comprises "the total package" including ALL and anything you can think of.

Joagbaje:

. . .“Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light.”

We’ve been made partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the Kingdom of light. We’re sharers and participators in the blessings and benefits of the Kingdom-life reserved for all God’s children. This happened when you were born again; you were born with an inheritance. You don’t have to try to “obey” the law for God to bless you; you were born blessed (Ephesians 1:3).

Also, you’re the fruit of Christ’s obedience:

“Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous” (Romans 5:18-19).

Can you now see why you don’t have to try to obey God first for Him to bless you? Someone obeyed God on your behalf, and His Name is Jesus. Through His obedience, God’s gift, His blessing of righteousness, was bequeathed to you.

Nowhere in the New Testament are we told to “obey” God or “obey” the Law. Rather, we are called His obedient children:

“As obedient children, not fashioned yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance” (1 Peter 1:14). We’re described in scriptures as having obeyed God’s Word of truth from the heart (Romans 6:17).

So our blessings and inheritance in Christ aren’t preconditioned on obedience; rather, they are our birthright![/color]

-pastor chris

We don't tithe because the law say so. Tithing is based on spiritual principles which preceded the law.

Joagbaje:

We don't tithe because the law say so. Tithing is based on spiritual principles which preceded the law.

For the benefit of those of us still learning, can you enumerate these spiritual principles upon which tithing is based? Thanks in advance.

Hmmm......this tithe scam matter, it have tay indeed

The journey didn't start today. Thank God for his mercies.

Though who is DR PYGRU and why is he interested in resurrecting old threads?

Just curious o

Candour:
Though who is DR PYGRU and why is he interested in resurrecting old threads?

Just curious o

Dr Pygru is bored

DR PYGRU:
Dr Pygru is bored

Eyaaa....pele

I feel you bro. Pls don't stop. I'm enjoying the trip through NL past and learning more about those who made this forum thick before i got here.

Also don't worry, Christmas is coming. Your boredom will be given a quit notice i'm sure

cheers