Hello guys, am a christian and I am a realist. The bible says u shall noe d truth nd d truth shall set u free,
Personally I believe d bible dat we all hold is not a complete bible and wasnt written by those dat it claimed to hv bin written by,
If u make researches, u'll find out dat most of Jesus disciples were illiterates, so, hw did dey write d new testament??
dese r questions we shud b lukin 4 answers about!
I read it sumwhr dat d catholics at dat tym ddnt want d bible to b spread across cus it was written in Hebrew and dey ddnt want a translation, d only person dat translated it was hanged lyk Jesus,
In conclusion, am nt sayin we shud discard d bible, am jst sayn we shud apply wisdom in evrytin we do,
There r alot of false tins around so please, we shud b careful!

Jesus didn't go to school either

John 7:14-16
14 Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught. 15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned? 16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

Jesus learnt reading and writing by God. Likewise some of his disciples ,

Acts 4:13
13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

Joagbaje:

Jesus didn't go to school either

John 7:14-16
14 Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught. 15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned? 16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

Jesus learnt reading and writing by God. Likewise some of his disciples ,

Acts 4:13
13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

Haba, pastor.  You are not really getting the full implications of what he is saying.  He is questioning the authenticity of the bible and all you can do is use that same bible to defend it.  It reminds me of when I first came to England as a child and I used to get into philosophical arguments with oyinbo kids.  Prior to this time in Naija when I got into any debate with anyone the debate could be settled by just pulling out a quote from the scripture.  'Go and check it you will see!'.  And when they check it and see thats the end of the argument.
So I got into a debate with some kids.  As the conversation got more and more heated I decided to buttress my point with some heavy scriptures.  So I whipped out my bible.
"Bwuuuuhahahaha  ha hah haha!"  Come and see hilarity.  Someone even ran to the next room to call other people to come and see this idi o t who is basing his point from the bible.  Soon the entire house was standing around laughing at me.  "Mate, that book is a load a tosh!!"

That day marked a great turning point in my intellectual life.  Up until that point my entire thought system had its foundation on the bible.  As soon as I saw something in the bible then it couldn't be questioned any further.  Now that the bible itself was being questioned I had to find an  axiom or authority outside of the bible in order to support the bible itself.  It began a long process of questing. 

You cannot quote bible to support bible.  That is called circular reasoning.  It is not logical.

We know that Jesus was a Rabbi.  One does not become a rabbi without knowing how to read.  It's like saying a university professor is illiterate.   We are told that in Luke chapter 4 this happened:
16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

An illiterate cannot find a certain passage in a book even if he knew the passage off by heart.  So if you bring another passage in the bible that says that Jesus was illiterate all that does is add further case to the OP's argument because it shows a contradiction in the bible.  Frankly I cannot see how the Jews can allow someone who is not a rabbi get up in the synagogue and say he wants to start teaching them.  And when he asks for the scroll someone actually stood up to hand him the scroll.  I'm sure even in CEC not anybody can jump on stage and say he wants to start preaching.

While we're at it, can any christian say what jesus was up to between d ages of 12 and 18? Thats wat set me on the path of atheism when i was a young'n.

My bad!!! I meant between 12 and 30

@Martian: I'm still a Christian, but the fact that part of His life's still missing from the Scriptures still bothers me.

exactly!! we nid to start askin questions cus, sum pple r nt sure of wat dey r doin again, God help us!

I started asking questions a long time ago. Getting answers and comparing with what's in the Scriptures. Searching for men who were atheists and became Christian e.g C.S Lewis, etc. It's been a year of discovery and discernment.
With all due respect, I hope you start seeking answers. Stay in God's Word, and His Word only. Somehow, the answers just pop out.

By the way, no be you bin dey do John Terry for that Oyedepo thread? Wetin happen na?

  You are not really getting the full implications of what he is saying.  He is questioning the authenticity of the bible and all you can do is use that same bible to defend it.  .

The bble speaks for itself.

Joagbaje:

The bble speaks for itself.

No it doesn't, you speak for it. A book like On the Origin of Species on the other hand, speaks for itself.

Genesis 1:27-28 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.


How were they to be "fruitful and multiply" without taking the fruit of knowledge? Yes, that same one he later told them not to touch. Is that not a contradiction, or even a bit illogical?

Dont worry when we die, we will know some of the truth if not all, of these holy books. So let wait till then.

3kay945:

Dont worry when we die, we will know some of the truth if not all, of these holy books. So let wait till then.

You won't know anything when you're dead because you're dead. If you want to know the "truth" of every so called holy book, all you have to do is do a little bit of research.

PastorAIO, what wisdom

lmao.

musKeeto:

I started asking questions a long time ago. Getting answers and comparing with what's in the Scriptures. Searching for men who were atheists and became Christian e.g C.S Lewis, etc. It's been a year of discovery and discernment.
With all due respect, I hope you start seeking answers. Stay in God's Word, and His Word only. Somehow, the answers just pop out.

By the way, no be you bin dey do John Terry for that Oyedepo thread? Wetin happen na? 

lwkmd!! Hommie, u hv 2 undastand dat i hv already sed am a graduate of covenant uni, though i undastand wat u guys r sayin, I argue wif oda members of d church supportin wat u jst sed. Buh i cant jst show weakness lyk dat na, 4.2 billion is too much na! Wetin!
Most pple r nw openin churches as a means of business, na wa oh,
No fall ma hand 4 dat thread abeg, hope u undastand wat i mean, Lmao,
Talkn about d bible contradictions, dey r soooo many eh, search in google 4 101 bible contradictions, u'll b surprised! So dis book we all refer to, is deceivin us, God hv mercy!

Infact sum catholic priests r even sayin most of dese tins in d bible r fictions nd dat d original manuscripts r missing!
Wetin we wan believe ma broda??

Pls sum1 shud convince me again, God is soo mighty innit? Y shud he send His only son 2 deliver us 4rm d devil?? Sum1 he created? Y ddnt He use His mighty hand 2 deliver us instead of sacrificin His only son, R we sure sum pple r nt jst takin advantage of d name of God, 2 fabricate stories? Dese r questions dat i hv bin ponderin on?

Kai, sometimes una dey tire me,

lol

Have you watched Derren Brown's Miracle for Sale, I'm uploading it now, will post the link on this thread once it's up

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-683313.0.html#msg8457671

dabraska:

Pls sum1 shud convince me again, God is soo mighty innit? Y shud he send His only son 2 deliver us 4rm d devil?? Sum1 he created? Y ddnt He use His mighty hand 2 deliver us instead of sacrificin His only son, R we sure sum pple r nt jst takin advantage of d name of God, 2 fabricate stories? Dese r questions dat i hv bin ponderin on?

If you're writing a work of fiction, wouldn't you want it to be as interesting as possible? If god had just said, " I forgive all you puny humans", then it would have been end of story and the epic conclusion in the book of revelations wouldn't have been possible. Boring, ain't it.

god is fabricated so they are using it the way it's supposed to be used, manipulate people e.g collect tithes, offerings, seeds, etc and build a university.

musKeeto:

Kai, sometimes una dey tire me,

lol

Have you watched Derren Brown's Miracle for Sale, I'm uploading it now, will post the link on this thread once it's up

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-683313.0.html#msg8457671

I think someone posted it and your folks rationalised it by saying, those are not "true christians" and that miracles are really real even though they have never seen one.

Martian:

If you're writing a work of fiction, wouldn't you want it to be as interesting as possible? If god had just said, " I forgive all you puny humans", then it would have been end of story and the epic conclusion in the book of revelations wouldn't have been possible. Boring, ain't it.

god is fabricated so they are using it the way it's supposed to be used, manipulate people e.g collect tithes, offerings, seeds, etc and build a university.

I think someone posted it and your folks rationalised it by saying, those are not "true christians" and that miracles are really real even though they have never seen one. 

i believe God exists buh He has been misinterpreted nd misquoted. So wat is d truth??

The funny thing is that most of what martian says is in the Bible


Isaiah 44
The blacksmith takes a tool
  and works with it in the coals;
he shapes an idol with hammers,
  he forges it with the might of his arm.
He gets hungry and loses his strength;
  he drinks no water and grows faint.
13 The carpenter measures with a line
  and makes an outline with a marker;
he roughs it out with chisels
  and marks it with compasses.
He shapes it in human form,
  human form in all its glory,
  that it may dwell in a shrine.
14 He cut down cedars,
  or perhaps took a cypress or oak.
He let it grow among the trees of the forest,
  or planted a pine, and the rain made it grow.
15 It is used as fuel for burning;
  some of it he takes and warms himself,
  he kindles a fire and bakes bread.
But he also fashions a god and worships it;
  he makes an idol and bows down to it.
16 Half of the wood he burns in the fire;
  over it he prepares his meal,
  he roasts his meat and eats his fill.
He also warms himself and says,
  “Ah! I am warm; I see the fire.”
17 From the rest he makes a god, his idol;
  he bows down to it and worships.
He prays to it and says,
  “Save me! You are my god!”
18 They know nothing, they understand nothing;
  their eyes are plastered over so they cannot see,
  and their minds closed so they cannot understand.
19 No one stops to think,
  no one has the knowledge or understanding to say,
“Half of it I used for fuel;
  I even baked bread over its coals,
  I roasted meat and I ate.
Shall I make a detestable thing from what is left?
  Shall I bow down to a block of wood?”
20 Such a person feeds on ashes; a deluded heart misleads him;
  he cannot save himself, or say,
  “Is not this thing in my right hand a lie?”


Romans 1
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

I used to say similar things before I became a Christian, and was shocked when I found these verses in the Bible. In any other book, I would have referred to it as atheism material.

dabraska:

i believe God exists buh He has been misinterpreted nd misquoted. So wat is d truth??

The truth is right in your face if you decide to acknowledge it.

Very confusing I tell ya!

musKeeto:

The funny thing is that most of what martian says is in the Bible


Isaiah 44
The blacksmith takes a tool
  and works with it in the coals;
he shapes an idol with hammers,
  he forges it with the might of his arm.
He gets hungry and loses his strength;
  he drinks no water and grows faint.
13 The carpenter measures with a line
  and makes an outline with a marker;
he roughs it out with chisels
  and marks it with compasses.
He shapes it in human form,
  human form in all its glory,
  that it may dwell in a shrine.
14 He cut down cedars,
  or perhaps took a cypress or oak.
He let it grow among the trees of the forest,
  or planted a pine, and the rain made it grow.
15 It is used as fuel for burning;
  some of it he takes and warms himself,
  he kindles a fire and bakes bread.
But he also fashions a god and worships it;
  he makes an idol and bows down to it.
16 Half of the wood he burns in the fire;
  over it he prepares his meal,
  he roasts his meat and eats his fill.
He also warms himself and says,
  “Ah! I am warm; I see the fire.”
17 From the rest he makes a god, his idol;
  he bows down to it and worships.
He prays to it and says,
  “Save me! You are my god!”
18 They know nothing, they understand nothing;
  their eyes are plastered over so they cannot see,
  and their minds closed so they cannot understand.
19 No one stops to think,
  no one has the knowledge or understanding to say,
“Half of it I used for fuel;
  I even baked bread over its coals,
  I roasted meat and I ate.
Shall I make a detestable thing from what is left?
  Shall I bow down to a block of wood?”
20 Such a person feeds on ashes; a deluded heart misleads him;
  he cannot save himself, or say,
  “Is not this thing in my right hand a lie?”


Romans 1
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

I used to say similar things before I became a Christian, and was shocked when I found these verses in the Bible. In any other book, I would have referred to it as atheism material.

thank u very much oga!!! May u b blessed even more! Dat is d truth. We'll jst ask God for guidance cus all dese pastors eh,

This is a pointless argument. The fact is no amount of evidence, logic or explanation is enough to convince theists of their folly. "Faith is the evidence of things not seen" meaning anyone can just make something up and it will magically exist. No need for proof, it doesn't even need to make any sense.

You should read about the Mormons and the Scientologists if you want to see how dumb faith and religion can make people. I'm seriously thinking of writing my own holy book just for fun. It'll be ten times better than the bible, with more wise parables and funnier stories. With the power of the internet, starting your own religion has never been easier.

BTW, has anyone noticed that Martian has made exactly 666 posts? I always knew he was the antichrist!

Martian:

While we're at it, can any christian say what jesus was up to between d ages of 12 and 30? Thats wat set me on the path of atheism when i was a young'n.

It's simply because his mission hadnt started. He needed the holy spirit to empower him for his ministry. He recieved the holy spirit at age 30 and began his ministry.

dabraska:

i believe God exists buh He has been misinterpreted nd misquoted. So wat is d truth??

Which God do you believe exists?

thehomer:

Which God do you believe exists?

i believe dere's a supreme being, an Almighty dat created all of dis tins we r seeing but He has bin misquoted nd different stories forged about Him in d bible!

Evil Brain:

This is a pointless argument. The fact is no amount of evidence, logic or explanation is enough to convince theists of their folly. "Faith is the evidence of things not seen" meaning anyone can just make something up and it will magically exist. No need for proof, it doesn't even need to make any sense.

You should read about the Mormons and the Scientologists if you want to see how dumb faith and religion can make people. I'm seriously thinking of writing my own holy book just for fun. It'll be ten times better than the bible, with more wise parables and funnier stories. With the power of the internet, starting  your own religion has never been easier.

BTW, has anyone noticed that Martian has made exactly 666 posts? I always knew he was the antichrist!

lwkmd!!! Hahahahahahahahaha!!! Funniest dude on NL!!! LOL!!

Evil Brain:

This is a pointless argument. The fact is no amount of evidence, logic or explanation is enough to convince theists of their folly. "Faith is the evidence of things not seen" meaning anyone can just make something up and it will magically exist. No need for proof, it doesn't even need to make any sense.

You should read about the Mormons and the Scientologists if you want to see how dumb faith and religion can make people. I'm seriously thinking of writing my own holy book just for fun. It'll be ten times better than the bible, with more wise parables and funnier stories. With the power of the internet, starting your own religion has never been easier.

BTW, has anyone noticed that Martian has made exactly 666 posts? I always knew he was the antichrist!

How, then, is the faith of any people, however false, to be refuted, though it may have arrived at such a pitch of blindness as to confess some idol to be the creator both of heaven and of earth? As, according to your own admission you cannot reason upon matters of faith, you have no right to attack others upon a matter with regard to which you think you ought yourself to be unassailed.
-Abelard (Sic et Non)

dabraska:

i believe dere's a supreme being, an Almighty dat created all of dis tins we r seeing but He has bin misquoted nd different stories forged about Him in d bible!

What do you know of this supreme being's characteristics?

thehomer:

What do you know of this supreme being's characteristics?

well, i believe He is a loving and kind, nd perfect God! He knows evrytin bcus He created evrytin