Political leaders considering nuclear attack on Russia are either ‘insane, a sociopath or a sadist’: Gabbard
'We are being pushed closer and closer to a hot war,' Gabbard warns

Former Hawaii Rep. Tulsi Gabbard obliterated Senator Roger Wicker (R-MS) for suggesting that the U.S. could enter a nuclear war with Russia in defense of Ukraine as Russian troops amass along the country’s border.

"Anyone who would propose or even consider what he is saying as an option must be insane, a sociopath or a sadist," Gabbard told "Tucker Carlson Tonight" on Wednesday.

Sen. Wicker made the startling comment during an on-air interview where he was asked about the escalating situation abroad. Wicker, who sits on the Senate Armed Services Committee, said that he is ruling nothing out as a potential response to defend Ukraine’s sovereignty against Russia and its leader, President Vladimir Putin.

"I would not rule out American troops on the ground," Wicker said, adding, that "We don’t rule out first-use nuclear action."

Gabbard told Carlson that neoconservatives in both the Democratic and Republican parties are courting global turmoil with their current overtures toward Russia and its leader.

"Let's go and launch a nuclear attack that would start a war that would destroy the American people, our country and the world and oh, also, the Ukrainians so that we can save Ukraine’s democracy? I mean, it literally is insane," Gabbard said.

"And the crazy thing is, Senator Wicker is not an outlier," she explained. "You are hearing the same kind of rhetoric coming from Democrats and Republicans in Congress and the administration and in the media no problem with this because they actually agree with this. They are pushing this same narrative themselves."

The Russian troops assembled at its border with Ukraine sends a clear signal to Kyiv, Europe and the United States that Russia might finally be ready to reincorporate Ukraine into Russia’s sphere of influence, severely increasing the risk of a major military escalation in Europe’s eastern frontier.

Ukraine’s defense minister, Oleksiy Reznikov, warned of a "bloody massacre" if Russia dared to invade Ukraine and the White House signaled that there would be a "real cost" to any Russian aggression against Ukraine.

President Biden spoke with Russian President Vladimir Putin Tuesday in a high-stakes phone call to de-escalate the crisis. Biden warned Putin that the U.S. is prepared to impose "severe consequences," including stifling economic sanctions, if Russia were to violate Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. National security adviser Jake Sullivan told reporters after the phone call that, in order to deter Russian aggression, "things we did not do in 2014 we are prepared to do now."

A nuclear response would "destroy the world as we know it," Gabbard warned.

"We are being pushed closer and closer to a hot war, a nuclear war" by "the same neocons and neo libs in Washington who dragged our country into regime change wars in places like Iraq and Libya and Syria," she said.

"There are consequences to leaders in our country, influential people in our country to throwing things out like a first use nuclear attack is on the table. This directly undermines our national security, and it directly puts the American people and our country and the world at risk."

https://www.foxnews.com/media/tulsi-gabbard-nuclear-attack-russia-ukraine-putin

Reactions

firstname:mister
8h ago
"We don’t rule out first-use nuclear action."

Yes, we do, by doctrine. I can't believe I know more about this stuff than they do.

Robin365075
1h ago
They kept saying Trump will get us into a war, in fact he was on the way to get us out of one safely until Joe screwed it up.
Now its taking Joe about a year to get us into one.
Where is Nancy Pelosi now? is she in touch with the pentagon to make sure that Joe does not have access to codes, like she tried to do to Trump?

woozymarigold
7h ago
What in hell is going on in DC? I was in SAC, keeping nuclear loaded bombers on 30 minute scramble readiness. I've lived through the madness of the Cold War, doing the drills in school and learning how to protect from fallout and radiation. If these people are really serious, they need to be removed from office immediately if not sooner. For a long time this nation subscribed to 'no first use' policy on nuclear weapons. Have we abandoned sanity in this country? Nobody wins when it goes nuclear and the survivors will likely wish they'd died in the blasts instead of lingering on.

RedPill1976
8h ago

The more she talks the more I like her. At least she is one of the few displaying common sense.

Perkalator
7h ago

Didn’t we promise to never use nuclear weapons as a offense in the past?. Im 100 percent conservative republican. But a nuclear option is the end of the world as we now it. Im glad ive watched every end of the world movie ever made and prepared. We get what we elect. This society is pushing more and more citizens to become preppers. I used to make fun of them. Now I understand.

Are we actually on the verge of the third world war?

More

p_a_s_1
7h ago
While I’m no fan of Russia we’ve been stepping on their toes for a while now and I don’t see the point. Those that will suffer most from any actions will be the Ukrainians and the other poor souls stuck between the feuding parties. And let’s be real, 20 years in Afghanistan and we couldn’t beat the taliban but now we want to try with them… on their front door. Just stop it now.

Eddddy
8h ago
I'm with Tulsi. It's literally insane to pick a war with Russia over the Ukraine. The Ukraine is nothing more than eastern Russia, ethnically and geographically. We have zero National Interest in Ukraine, zero

YourReptilianOverlords
7h ago
Then Mutually assured destruction is mutually assured.

JDaily77
8h ago
If ANY American politician would use nukes in any first strike, let alone in defense of Ukraine, they shouldn't be in office. I thought we dismissed the entire concept that we could use a few nukes?!?! You can't use a few and the other side will go "That was a good shot! We surrender!" No they launch. If a country like China or Russia are beat, even in a conventional war, they will launch everything.

Hidiho054
2h ago
Russia and China have signed a pact for more military cooperation up to 2025
Sergei Shoigu, the country's defence minister, said the pact is necessary to ensure 'global stability' in the face of what he described as US threats
Shoigu pointed to recent US nuclear drills near Russia's border as an example.
If we fight Russia then we should be prepared to also fight China and North Korea.

More reactions

dirtrat
7h ago

Have to agree with her on this one. Mutual destruction is not an option

cas4258
8h ago
They're not insane or sociopathic, they're down right stupid. Sad thing is there are Russian that believe the same way. Do they really think the US can use nukes and Russia won't respond in kind. An exchange of nukes between the US and Russia means we won't have to worry about Covid-19 anymore. We'll all be dead or dying.

VladamirKrolczynski
6h ago

Albert Einstein: "I don't know how a third world war will be fought but I know the fourth will be with sticks and stones".

[b] Usaag 1h ago
Once a nuke is launched, that's it. Many more will follow. Keep in mind, biden has the nuke codes, and this isn't a game. When russia counters, it will launch a majority of its nukes on the usa. Consider every major city gone. So when that happens, russia launchs theirs, then the usa launchs theirs at russia. Then china launchs theirs at the usa. Then north korea, if they have any.. launch theirs at the usa. Russia will probably launch some at britain too. Usa will launch back at china.. and probably north korea too. Australia will be fine, as long as they don't launch any, but they'll have to contend with any other nations seeking any dominance.

Whats left, south america.. canada or portions of it. Parts of the middle east. Whats left of the usa will be pretty much pushed back into the stone age. If one nuke detonates above your country, the EMP will destroy most if not all of the electronics. There goes your infrastructure.

Trading will stop. Everyone will have to work, steal, kill to survive in those parts where there are survivors. And there won't be any internet. Worse yet, the fallout will travel with the winds.

This the kinda thing you want biden in charge of?

Cc; Lalasticlala, Mynd44

This is serious

Franksomtoo:
Are we actually on the verge of the third world war?

That would depend on how the US treats this tbh. Russian strongman, Vlamidir Putin has been trying to negotiate and reach a deal with the NATO to stop expanding eastwards. He said it would criminal for him to sit down and watch Ukraine join NATO, giving US and allies the green light to build short ranged ballistic missiles and other missile systems just outside its borders. Take note, a short ranged missile when fired from just outside a countries border, would be impossible to take down because of the lack of time to react. Such missile would take just 5 minutes to reach Moscow from Ukraine. So I 100% understand why putin is trying to reach a deal with them to stop expanding to the east and to countries that share border with them.

What is going to cause war now is the USA forming strong head. They issuing empty threats about blasting russia with nuclear weapons. Biden has threatened putin that his "red lines" claims would fall on deaf ears and that there's nothing he can do about them adding Ukraine into NATO.

From a Russian perspective, it is only war that can help protect their interest and securities now.

They need to take over the part of Ukraine that share borders with them, if not even the entire Ukraine.

So maybe yes. If efforts aren't put to disperse this tension, WW3 may come be sooner than we expect

I think all of you are mad especially Putin for creating unnecessary tension

MangekyoAlt:

That would depend on how the US treats this tbh. Russian strongman, Vlamidir Putin has been trying to negotiate and reach a deal with the NATO to stop expanding eastwards. He said it would criminal for him to sit down and watch Ukraine join NATO, giving US and allies the green light to build short ranged ballistic missiles and other missile systems just outside its borders. Take note, a short ranged missile when fired from just outside a countries border, would be impossible to take down because of the lack of time to react. Such missile would take just 5 minutes to reach Moscow from Ukraine. So I 100% understand why putin is trying to reach a deal with them to stop expanding to the east and to countries that share border with them.

What is going to cause war now is the USA forming strong head. They issuing empty threats about blasting russia with nuclear weapons. Biden has threatened putin that his "red lines" claims would fall on deaf ears and that there's nothing he can do about them adding Ukraine into NATO.

From a Russian perspective, it is only war that can help protect their interest and securities now.

They need to take over the part of Ukraine that share borders with them, if not even the entire Ukraine.

So maybe yes. If efforts aren't put to disperse this tension, WW3 may come be sooner than we expect

I like how you grossly overlook the facts that Ukraine is a sovereign nation and with that have the right to do as it pleases.
if Russia doesn't want NATO close to it's backyards then stop bullying your neighbors to show influence and power.
Ever wonder why the US is always very quick to resolve issues with Mexico and Canada??
China is now doing the same thing as Russia and what is the result?
more countries in the SCS are joining pacts with the US.
They are not doing it because the like the US, they are doing it to survive.

But sure, let's overlook that facts are pain America as the bad guys. You know that usually makes the headlines

emae009:


I like how you grossly overlook the facts that Ukraine is a sovereign nation and with that have the right to do as it pleases.
if Russia doesn't want NATO close to it's backyards then stop bullying your neighbors to show influence and power.
Ever wonder why the US is always very quick to resolve issues with Mexico and Canada??
China is now doing the same thing as Russia and what is the result?
more countries in the SCS are joining pacts with the US.
They are not doing it because the like the US, they are doing it to survive.

But sure, let's overlook that facts are pain America as the bad guys. You know that usually makes the headlines

Whether Ukraine is a sovereign state or not is not Russia's business.
USA would do the same if they were on their position. I'm I lying? Imagine if Mexico or even Canada allowed russia or China to come in and build bases there, how do you think the US would react? Please be sincere with yourself.

Lmao you really think Canada and Mexico are being the sidekicks of the US just because the US had been peaceful to them?
LMFAO you should try to make research for yourself. At least Google wouldn't lie. USA currently have plans set to invade Canada the moment Canada tries any nonsense wiry them. Those plans had been made way back to the 1800's and Canada know it
It is possible that the USA have even made plans on how to invade every country on this earth.

The USA and Britain are even the reason why Ukraine are in this situation today. Ask me why?

emae009:


I like how you grossly overlook the facts that Ukraine is a sovereign nation and with that have the right to do as it pleases.
if Russia doesn't want NATO close to it's backyards then stop bullying your neighbors to show influence and power.
Ever wonder why the US is always very quick to resolve issues with Mexico and Canada??
China is now doing the same thing as Russia and what is the result?
more countries in the SCS are joining pacts with the US.
They are not doing it because the like the US, they are doing it to survive.

But sure, let's overlook that facts are pain America as the bad guys. You know that usually makes the headlines

Alright this same action had been taken by the US way back in history. Read for yourself

emae009:


I like how you grossly overlook the facts that Ukraine is a sovereign nation and with that have the right to do as it pleases.
if Russia doesn't want NATO close to it's backyards then stop bullying your neighbors to show influence and power.
Ever wonder why the US is always very quick to resolve issues with Mexico and Canada??
China is now doing the same thing as Russia and what is the result?
more countries in the SCS are joining pacts with the US.
They are not doing it because the like the US, they are doing it to survive.

But sure, let's overlook that facts are pain America as the bad guys. You know that usually makes the headlines

The bolded shows you don't know how the rift between Russia and NATO started. In fact it was NATO that trigerred Russia's paranoia through NATO's hegemonic over extension and that's why all these are happening. I wrote about this some months ago you can read it here
https://www.nairaland.com/6499456/russia-ukraine-days-war-vladimir-putin#100652918

MangekyoAlt:


Alright this same action had been taken by the US way back in history. Read for yourself

you dey read what you quote to understand or you just thought it agrees with your position and you just post it.
If you even took time to understand my comment not read to reply to show how knowledgeable you are, you would have noticed were I wrote that US quickly resolve issues with Mexico and Canada. Both countries are given a lot of leg room by the US because they encompasses it.
Can the same be said of Russia and China
Ukraine didn't just wake up and decided they feel they should join NATO. Neither did Georgia back then. Something pushed them to do so.
so can you kindly tell the audience what that was??

MangekyoAlt:

Whether Ukraine is a sovereign state or not is not Russia's business.
USA would do the same if they were on their position. I'm I lying? Imagine if Mexico or even Canada allowed russia or China to come in and build bases there, how do you think the US would react? Please be sincere with yourself.

Lmao you really think Canada and Mexico are being the sidekicks of the US just because the US had been peaceful to them?
LMFAO you should try to make research for yourself. At least Google wouldn't lie. USA currently have plans set to invade Canada the moment Canada tries any nonsense wiry them. Those plans had been made way back to the 1800's and Canada know it
It is possible that the USA have even made plans on how to invade every country on this earth.

The USA and Britain are even the reason why Ukraine are in this situation today. Ask me why?

You're talking about the plans to invade Canada. Guyyyy. this is the problem I always have with you guys, anything that looks like it support your agenda you just rush to spit it out. If I may ask which Country burned down the white house??

Please inform me how the US and Britain put Ukraine in this mess. I'm waiting

dermmy:


The bolded shows you don't know how the rift between Russia and NATO started. In fact it was NATO that trigerred Russia's paranoia through NATO's hegemonic over extension and that's why all these are happening. I wrote about this some months ago you can read it here
https://www.nairaland.com/6499456/russia-ukraine-days-war-vladimir-putin#100652918

Smh... Do you know how Countries join NATO?
You're talking about NATO expansion but clearly overlooking what caused the former Soviet Union states to want to join them in the first place.
Answer that question first since you know too much.
There's no effect with cause. Something made the Baltic states to want to join NATO. Something is making countries in the SCS to sign pacts with the US but sure let's overlook that cause and chase after the effect because you know agenda

emae009:


you dey read what you quote to understand or you just thought it agrees with your position and you just post it.
If you even took time to understand my comment not read to reply to show how knowledgeable you are, you would have noticed were I wrote that US quickly resolve issues with Mexico and Canada. Both countries are given a lot of leg room by the US because they encompasses it.
Can the same be said of Russia and China
Ukraine didn't just wake up and decided they feel they should join NATO. Neither did Georgia back then. Something pushed them to do so.
so can you kindly tell the audience what that was??

Oga you're talking trash. Rubbish.
The USSR was one before. Before they broke into diff states who gained independence, did that empty brain of yours not know that they had their differences?

Were the US, Canada, and Mexico one country before? Why then do you compare them to Russia and Ukraine, Russia and Georgia or China and Taiwan? Are Ukraine and Georgia the only country that share borders with Russia? Why then are they the only ones wailing?

Ukraine disliking Russia is understandable. They were one before before they broke off and formed their own state.

If Biafra were to break off from Nigeria today, it wouldn't surprise anyone if they decide to go form an alliance with other countries and not Nigeria since both people had that differences before they decided to break off.

Like I asked that brain of yours before. If Canada allowed russia to go into their country and build military bases and missile systems, how would the USA react?

emae009:


You're talking about the plans to invade Canada. Guyyyy. this is the problem I always have with you guys, anything that looks like it support your agenda you just rush to spit it out. If I may ask which Country burned down the white house??

Please inform me how the US and Britain put Ukraine in this mess. I'm waiting

You're also trying to push your a gender here mate. You claimed russia should sit tight and allow Ukraine to bring in a people they consider as enemies to come build military equipments just at their border that can be used to harm their citizens whenever they like, just because they're a sovereign state.
Should I begin to list how many "sovereign" states the United States and allies have invaded? Or is the US now the only country that can invade sovereign states whenever they don't like what's going on in it and others can't? Stop being a hypocrite.

After the fall of the soviet union, Ukraines share of nuclear warheads was past 2k. They were the 3rd most powerful country just behind USA and Russia. Guess what? USA told them to dispose those nuclear weapons else they'll be treated as a "rough" country by them and the international community. (the USA who currently have nuclear weapons telling another to dispose theirs off else they'll be treated as rough. Why haven't they disposed theirs? Hypocrites). Now Britain and us promised Ukraine protection once they get rid of those nuclear weapons. Ukraine did, and today they're no more feared by any country.

Back to my point. If Ukraine had those weapons, Russia wouldn't have dared to set a foot on Ukraine when they annexed Crimea. Their military might does not compare to that of the Russian. And who are the cause of it? Let me see it you're sensible.

The same people who claimed they would protect them after letting go of ALL THEIR DANGEROUS WEAPONS. Imagine me telling you to get rid of your gun while I have one, promising to protect you with mine. Ukrainians are the dumbest people in the world, while us being the hypocrites

k

MangekyoAlt:


You're also trying to push your a gender here mate. You claimed russia should sit tight and allow Ukraine to bring in a people they consider as enemies to come build military equipments just at their border that can be used to harm their citizens whenever they like, just because they're a sovereign state.
Should I begin to list how many "sovereign" states the United States and allies have invaded? Or is the US now the only country that can invade sovereign states whenever they don't like what's going on in it and others can't? Stop being a hypocrite.

After the fall of the soviet union, Ukraines share of nuclear warheads was past 2k. They were the 3rd most powerful country just behind USA and Russia. Guess what? USA told them to dispose those nuclear weapons else they'll be treated as a "rough" country by them and the international community. (the USA who currently have nuclear weapons telling another to dispose theirs off else they'll be treated as rough. Why haven't they disposed theirs? Hypocrites). Now Britain and us promised Ukraine protection once they get rid of those nuclear weapons. Ukraine did, and today they're no more feared by any country.

Back to my point. If Ukraine had those weapons, Russia wouldn't have dared to set a foot on Ukraine when they annexed Crimea. Their military might does not compare to that of the Russian. And who are the cause of it? Let me see it you're sensible.

The same people who claimed they would protect them after letting go of ALL THEIR DANGEROUS WEAPONS. Imagine me telling you to get rid of your gun while I have one, promising to protect you with mine. Ukrainians are the dumbest people in the world, while us being the hypocrites

comprehension is really the problem.
I ask a simple question and I'm sure you know the answer will expose your stand badly hence why you're dodging it and trying to engage in tattle tales.
I may be pro west but on this post. I haven't look to push any agenda just asked a simple question and you're all over the place.

What would make Ukraine that shares a lot more with Russia to go Pro West?.
I'm just asking for the cause and you're branching all over the place like it's Marvel multiverse.
Just answer the simple question

emae009:
k

comprehension is really the problem.
I ask a simple question and I'm sure you know the answer will expose your stand badly hence why you're dodging it and trying to engage in tattle tales.
I may be pro west but on this post. I haven't look to push any agenda just asked a simple question and you're all over the place.

What would make Ukraine that shares a lot more with Russia to go Pro West?.
I'm just asking for the cause and you're branching all over the place like it's Marvel multiverse.
Just answer the simple question

I now know what your problem is. You're dumb. Clearly. Haven't I answered the question you keep asking me already? Or you just skipped or probably don't even know how to read?

You came rattling all over the thread about how russia should allow Ukraine to do whatever they like, even Undermining the security of Russians, just because they're a sovereign state.

I then asked you if you knew of how man "sovereign" states the United States and allies have breached? You turned dumb in an instant. Repeating your pathetic questions to me..

What does who the Ukrainians chose to align with have to do with the article? If my previous answer to you doesn't satisfy you which is understandable since you're a brainwashed pro west African. Well I'll add to it.

An alliance with the west and Russia, which would be more beneficiary for any country?

MangekyoAlt:


Oga you're talking trash. Rubbish.
The USSR was one before. Before they broke into diff states who gained independence, did that empty brain of yours not know that they had their differences?

Were the US, Canada, and Mexico one country before? Why then do you compare them to Russia and Ukraine, Russia and Georgia or China and Taiwan? Are Ukraine and Georgia the only country that share borders with Russia? Why then are they the only ones wailing?

Ukraine disliking Russia is understandable. They were one before before they broke off and formed their own state.

If Biafra were to break off from Nigeria today, it wouldn't surprise anyone if they decide to go form an alliance with other countries and not Nigeria since both people had that differences before they decided to break off.

Like I asked that brain of yours before. If Canada allowed russia to go into their country and build military bases and missile systems, how would the USA react?

Dude!.
Which Country burned down the White House?
Which Country did the US annexed New Mexico from?
How did the US even become a state?
Have you ever read of the fights between Britain, France; Spain, Portugal?
Let me not even talk about Germany.
Turkey and Greece are fighting over a gulf.
Japan was bombed by the US.
Are those all not differences?
but when it was cause for the greater good, they set aside their differences and worked together.
Working together doesn't mean the like each other.
The US is not really loved in France.
Japan dislikes South Korea but the have a unifying figure in America.

Russia was supposed to be the Mother bear for the Eastern states but how well have they done that.
China was supposed to be the unifying figure in Asia but how well are they doing that.
They are so focused on world domination that they are exposing their Achilles heels.

I'm not here today to engage in the useless America and Russia tic for tac on Nairaland.
All I'm saying and still saying is what causes these countries to choose NATO?

I'm not avoiding your question just don't want to answer it because I know how this plays out on Nairaland. so if I answer it maybe you will finally answer mine or as usual you'll come up with another ridiculous one.
Yes, the US will rain down fire and brimstone if Canada considers Russia. (You're happy, bravo!).
Now why hasn't Canada chose Russia? You see? The US knows they don't want the enemy close to home so I pointed out since my first post and you still don't grasp something so simple, they allow Canada a lot of leg room so that in any scenario, Canada will always be pro west.
They do sanctioned Canada if you must know.
Why isn't Russia playing the same ball with her own backyard. Go figure

emae009:


Dude!.
Which Country burned down the White House?
Which Country did the US annexed New Mexico from?
How did the US even become a state?
Have you ever read of the fights between Britain, France; Spain, Portugal?
Let me not even talk about Germany.
Turkey and Greece are fighting over a gulf.
Japan was bombed by the US.
Are those all not differences?
but when it was cause for the greater good, they set aside their differences and worked together.
Working together doesn't mean the like each other.
The US is not really loved in France.
Japan dislikes South Korea but the have a unifying figure in America.

Russia was supposed to be the Mother bear for the Eastern states but how well have they done that.
China was supposed to be the unifying figure in Asia but how well are they doing that.
They are so focused on world domination that they are exposing their Achilles heels.

I'm not here today to engage in the useless America and Russia tic for tac on Nairaland.
All I'm saying and still saying is what causes these countries to choose NATO?

I'm not avoiding your question just don't want to answer it because I know how this plays out on Nairaland. so if I answer it maybe you will finally answer mine or as usual you'll come up with another ridiculous one.
Yes, the US will rain down fire and brimstone if Canada considers Russia. (You're happy, bravo!).
Now why hasn't Canada chose Russia? You see? The US knows they don't want the enemy close to home so I pointed out since my first post and you still don't grasp something so simple, they allow Canada a lot of leg room so that in any scenario, Canada will always be pro west.
They do sanctioned Canada if you must know.
Why isn't Russia playing the same ball with her own backyard. Go figure

Admitting that USA would act THE SAME WAY the Russians are acting now if Canada aligns with Russia is the most sensible thing I've seen from you yet.

Now you were asking about why Canada still sticks to the US and why Ukraine hasn't with Russia.
Well the USA runs the world. They're world power. Even if they aren't treating Canadians right, they would still try to keep their relationship intact. Why is that? The reason is because they're benefitting from the relationship with US either financially, NATO security etc.

I'm aware that Russia can be aggressive towards them at times but it is obvious their main purpose of wanting to form an alliance with us would is for the benefits which they won't get with Russia.

Russia though a regional power are still suffering from sanctions and western propaganda. Nothing much would be gained from picking them ahead or the west as allies. Which is why I said I understand their resolve to opt for the west who currently dictate everything that happens in the world right now.

Meanwhile, Russia isn't against them having relationships with them. What they don't want and the reason why there is tension today is because they want assurance from both Ukraine and NATO that weapons that can be used to hurt Russians in the future wouldn't be installed in Ukraine or anywhere close to their borders.

Putin has said he would De-escalate everything once that assurance is made. He didnt say Ukraine wouldn't be allowed to Ave any relationship with the west if that is what they truly want.

Now you came rattling about how russia Should not do anything, just sit thigjt and fold their hands, because Ukraine is a sovereign state. Russia doesn't care. If Ukraine takes decision that would undermine Russian securities, then they would be attacked. No hard feelings.

Also, the way you pro west, black Africans keep talking as if the US are saints themselves. Russia isn't perfect, but the US are little to no better either.

They have been aggressive to many nations in the middle east and you guys don't talk about it even when they cry out just because it is the USA and they're always right.

Have they not been invading countries and even sovereign ones at that, before? Is that not an act of aggression.? Stop making a big deal out of the Russian-Ukraine relationship

MangekyoAlt:

I now know what your problem is. You're dumb. Clearly. Haven't I answered the question you keep asking me already? Or you just skipped or probably don't even know how to read?

You came rattling all over the thread about how russia should allow Ukraine to do whatever they like, even Undermining the security of Russians, just because they're a sovereign state.

I then asked you if you knew of how man "sovereign" states the United States and allies have breached? You turned dumb in an instant. Repeating your pathetic questions to me..

What does who the Ukrainians chose to align with have to do with the article? If my previous answer to you doesn't satisfy you which is understandable since you're a brainwashed pro west African. Well I'll add to it.

An alliance with the west and Russia, which would be more beneficiary for any country?

personal attacks won't work here bro. If you know me you should know I don't roll on that level. I only tell you what is and what is not.
As with all agenda, it's stand to the death.

And to show how bias you are. First you said, why are other Countries in the Eastern region Pro Russia to emphasize on your point that Ukraine hates Russia that's why they want to join NATO. (which doesn't answer the question of "cause". Then you come up with economic benefits. So those other countries you were proudly showing off as Pro Russia, aren't they interested in this Economic benefits or what?

At this point I can only conclude you don't know the answer to the question. So don't stress your head.

Secondly since you don't know, joining NATO while nice and fun isn't all roses. You keep to be there, you pay the foreign soldiers in your country if they are stationed there. You pay to buy equipments. You cede you sovereignty over those bases.
The nuclear arsenal in Germany is controlled by then US not Germany that it's stationed in. Germany has no say over its use. They only courtesy the receive is that they will be informed beforehand about its launched but they aren't involved in the decision process.
Japan pays to keep US soldiers on its island and cede sovereignty over the island. Any attrocities committed their is subject to US laws.
You only buy NATO approved weapons and platform.
That's what joining NATO is like, not all bed and roses.
Mexico aren't part of NATO but they enjoy defense coverage from the US because they are its neighbor.

My point which you so arrogantly misinterpreted was all about how to blatantly overlook Ukraine sovereignty because you're Pro Russia. Your whole idea and reasoning is centered on why should Russia allow Ukraine to chose for themselves not why is Ukraine that way in the first place.

Leaving all the West and Russia aside, even in real life, they way you treat people that knows your under-doings is different from the way you treat others. Which is my whole point, which is partly the answer to the cause.
I even brought China for further emphasis.
The US are amicable with its neighbors, e get why but Russia wants to Lord over them and then shout foul when they choose the enemy.
Ukraine should be pampered by Russia but every time they have opportunity to do so, they chose to show how powerful they are. it's nice to do that to others not to your neighbors that are in your backyard.
Nothing can dispute that facts. Agenda or otherwise

emae009:


personal attacks won't work here bro. If you know me you should know I don't roll on that level. I only tell you what is and what is not.
As with all agenda, it's stand to the death.

And to show how bias you are. First you said, why are other Countries in the Eastern region Pro Russia to emphasize on your point that Ukraine hates Russia that's why they want to join NATO. (which doesn't answer the question of "cause". Then you come up with economic benefits. So those other countries you were proudly showing off as Pro Russia, aren't they interested in this Economic benefits or what?

At this point I can only conclude you don't know the answer to the question. So don't stress your head.

Secondly since you don't know, joining NATO while nice and fun isn't all roses. You keep to be there, you pay the foreign soldiers in your country if they are stationed there. You pay to buy equipments. You cede you sovereignty over those bases.
The nuclear arsenal in Germany is controlled by then US not Germany that it's stationed in. Germany has no say over its use. They only courtesy the receive is that they will be informed beforehand about its launched but they aren't involved in the decision process.
Japan pays to keep US soldiers on its island and cede sovereignty over the island. Any attrocities committed their is subject to US laws.
You only buy NATO approved weapons and platform.
That's what joining NATO is like, not all bed and roses.
Mexico aren't part of NATO but they enjoy defense coverage from the US because they are its neighbor.

My point which you so arrogantly misinterpreted was all about how to blatantly overlook Ukraine sovereignty because you're Pro Russia. Your whole idea and reasoning is centered on why should Russia allow Ukraine to chose for themselves not why is Ukraine that way in the first place.

Leaving all the West and Russia aside, even in real life, they way you treat people that knows your under-doings is different from the way you treat others. Which is my whole point, which is partly the answer to the cause.
I even brought China for further emphasis.
The US are amicable with its neighbors, e get why but Russia wants to Lord over them and then shout foul when they choose the enemy.
Ukraine should be pampered by Russia but every time they have opportunity to do so, they chose to show how powerful they are. it's nice to do that to others not to your neighbors that are in your backyard.
Nothing can dispute that facts. Agenda or otherwise

I get your point. But while the Russians have made the mistake of not pampering Ukraine, as you've said, expecting them to fold their hands and watch while they allow us to come and build systems that could be used to hurt Russians isn't acceptable. It wouldn't be accepted by any big or at least strong country.

Meanwhile, you're making a big deal out of their relationship. It's as you said. Us fought wars with Canada, Britain, Mexico etc in history. Are they not friends now after a few years or decade?

The way you put it you're sounding as if Ukraine and Russia are gonna be enemies forever. Canada and USA fought before, after a few years, they're friends.

It is possible that Ukrainians and Russians would become friends again after a few years or even decades. Doesn't matter. That could happen after putin leaves power.

But before that happen, Russia SHOULD make sure US aren't allowed to build weapons that would undermine their security even if it means going to war. If that happens, getting them off would be extremely difficult.

MangekyoAlt:

Admitting that USA would act THE SAME WAY the Russians are acting now if Canada aligns with Russia is the most sensible thing I've seen from you yet.

Now you were asking about why Canada still sticks to the US and why Ukraine hasn't with Russia.
Well the USA runs the world. They're world power. Even if they aren't treating Canadians right, they would still try to keep their relationship intact. Why is that? The reason is because they're benefitting from the relationship with US either financially, NATO security etc.

I'm aware that Russia can be aggressive towards them at times but it is obvious their main purpose of wanting to form an alliance with us would is for the benefits which they won't get with Russia.

Russia though a regional power are still suffering from sanctions and western propaganda. Nothing much would be gained from picking them ahead or the west as allies. Which is why I said I understand their resolve to opt for the west who currently dictate everything that happens in the world right now.

Meanwhile, Russia isn't against them having relationships with them. What they don't want and the reason why there is tension today is because they want assurance from both Ukraine and NATO that weapons that can be used to hurt Russians in the future wouldn't be installed in Ukraine or anywhere close to their borders.

Putin has said he would De-escalate everything once that assurance is made. He didnt say Ukraine wouldn't be allowed to Ave any relationship with the west if that is what they truly want.

Now you came rattling about how russia Should not do anything, just sit thigjt and fold their hands, because Ukraine is a sovereign state. Russia doesn't care. If Ukraine takes decision that would undermine Russian securities, then they would be attacked. No hard feelings.

Also, the way you pro west, black Africans keep talking as if the US are saints themselves. Russia isn't perfect, but the US are little to no better either.

They have been aggressive to many nations in the middle east and you guys don't talk about it even when they cry out just because it is the USA and they're always right.

Have they not been invading countries and even sovereign ones at that, before? Is that not an act of aggression.? Stop making a big deal out of the Russian-Ukraine relationship

I've already addressed what you assume is economic benefits so I won't do that again.

Like I keep repeating I'm not here for the usual US and Russia.
You keep overlooking Ukraine sovereignty like it's nothing because you know Russia.
Russia should have been more accomodating of Ukraine even if they are a hot head.
Case-in-point: Turkey. If you know anything about NATO, you'd know how much leg room is given to Turkey. They do provide the leg soldiers but they are given a bit more freedom because of their strategic importance to NATO. If Turkey joins the Russia bloc, they open up mainland Europe. To avoid that scenario, a blind eye to turned to some of Turkey's behavior.

Russia should have envisioned this scenario since day one that if Ukraine were to turn to NATO, they will be in a peculiar situation so anything Ukraine should be handled with a little more finesse but what did they do in reality. The complete opposite, instead trying to use brute force to command obedience forgetting like you're doing now that Ukraine is a sovereign state. They make their own decisions.

You can treat your brother harshly and then turn around and say He shouldn't do that because I am a public figure, it will reflect badly on me. Instead you try to butter him up to your side more to cover your ass. which has been my whole point from the beginning.

Russia being exposed to NATO attack and defense equipments is all on Russia. They shouldn't have allow it come to that point in the first place.

Like I have always said, I don't know for others, the US are not saint either but look how the treat other countries and look how the treat Canada and Mexico. Alaska would not have been better protected from Russia by Canada and the US did the needful and took it as their own amicably even when the location shows its Canada. If it was another country far away from US, we both know the scenario would be difference.

emae009:


I've already addressed what you assume is economic benefits so I won't do that again.

Like I keep repeating I'm not here for the usual US and Russia.
You keep overlooking Ukraine sovereignty like it's nothing because you know Russia.
Russia should have been more accomodating of Ukraine even if they are a hot head.
Case-in-point: Turkey. If you know anything about NATO, you'd know how much leg room is given to Turkey. They do provide the leg soldiers but they are given a bit more freedom because of their strategic importance to NATO. If Turkey joins the Russia bloc, they open up mainland Europe. To avoid that scenario, a blind eye to turned to some of Turkey's behavior.

Russia should have envisioned this scenario since day one that if Ukraine were to turn to NATO, they will be in a peculiar situation so anything Ukraine should be handled with a little more finesse but what did they do in reality. The complete opposite, instead trying to use brute force to command obedience forgetting like you're doing now that Ukraine is a sovereign state. They make their own decisions.

You can treat your brother harshly and then turn around and say He shouldn't do that because I am a public figure, it will reflect badly on me. Instead you try to butter him up to your side more to cover your ass. which has been my whole point from the beginning.

Russia being exposed to NATO attack and defense equipments is all on Russia. They shouldn't have allow it come to that point in the first place.

Like I have always said, I don't know for others, the US are not saint either but look how the treat other countries and look how the treat Canada and Mexico. Alaska would not have been better protected from Russia by Canada and the US did the needful and took it as their own amicably even when the location shows its Canada. If it was another country far away from US, we both know the scenario would be difference.

US turns blind eyes to turkeys misbehaviors? Nice joke. The same USA that slapped turkey with sanctions the moment they purchased s400 Surface to air defence systems?

Theyve been going for Russian weapons and hardwares lately and the only reason they're still in NATO is for the benefits.

While I agree that the US treat their neighbour's kindly, I also want you to know that they aren't doing it out of love. They're doing it because if any of those countries chooses to align with their Rivals, it wouldn't be good for them. They treat them right so that they wouldn't prefer their Rivals to them which I agree the Russians should be doing with Ukraine but that doesn't mean the USA aren't also hypocrites.

Recently India had been buying weapons from Russia (USA had sanctioned russia from selling weapons to others since they annex Crimea and have threatened to place sanctions on anyone who buys from them).

Now, they banned turkey who they consider allies for buying S400.
India purchased about 8 abi ten not long ago but received not even a threat.
India and putin recently had a meeting. They have signed deals to trade oil, weapons, military hardwares etc yet no warning from the USA.

Why is that? Isn't it because they need India to tackle China? Favoritism and USA are like 5&6 and the reason why they haven't lashed out at India is because they're needed in their plan.

I'm happy India has chosen to remain neutral.

Back to what I was saying. The US does these things not because of love. It's because of their selfish interest which I of course agree with you that Russia should try to improve on

MangekyoAlt:

US turns blind eyes to turkeys misbehaviors? Nice joke. The same USA that slapped turkey with sanctions the moment they purchased s400 Surface to air defence systems?

Theyve been going for Russian weapons and hardwares lately and the only reason they're still in NATO is for the benefits.

While I agree that the US treat their neighbour's kindly, I also want you to know that they aren't doing it out of love. They're doing it because if any of those countries chooses to align with their Rivals, it wouldn't be good for them. They treat them right so that they wouldn't prefer their Rivals to them which I agree the Russians should be doing with Ukraine but that doesn't mean the USA aren't also hypocrites.

Recently India had been buying weapons from Russia (USA had sanctioned russia from selling weapons to others since they annex Crimea and have threatened to place sanctions on anyone who buys from them).

Now, they banned turkey who they consider allies for buying S400.
India purchased about 8 abi ten not long ago but received not even a threat.
India and putin recently had a meeting. They have signed deals to trade oil, weapons, military hardwares etc yet no warning from the USA.

Why is that? Isn't it because they need India to tackle China? Favoritism and USA are like 5&6 and the reason why they haven't lashed out at India is because they're needed in their plan.

I'm happy India has chosen to remain neutral.

Back to what I was saying. The US does these things not because of love. It's because of their selfish interest which I of course agree with you that Russia should try to improve on

while I wasn't on this thread for US vs Russia. if you want us to go that way we can still do it. but these days I just want to stay off nairaland debate so I might not do that in the end though.

You guys always take isolated situation and try to turn it to a fact.
Turkey is part of NATO, it's a requirement to only buy weapon systems that are NATO approved or integrated. France will never use the Sidewinder Aim9x air to air missile. US will never use any other country's weapon aside their but the French fighter jets can shoot the AIM 9 and the F16 can shoot the meteor missile. You get the point now. What Turkey did why bought a system that is dangerous to the overall defense of NATO.
Russia can't let NATO inspect the S-400 so there's no idea if that system is pinging info back to Russia.

India has no such agreement with US. India are free to do as it pleases. The US only advised them not to get it but they still went ahead. that scenario has nothing to do with containing China.
India only started buying US systems again of recent. They didn't use to do that because of the previous incident where the US refused to sell weapons system for jets India had already acquired because of Human rights violations and all that.

so you see your point to someone that doesnt know will make perfect sense and sound reasonable when it actually isn't.

emae009:


while I wasn't on this thread for US vs Russia. if you want us to go that way we can still do it. but these days I just want to stay off nairaland debate so I might not do that in the end though.

You guys always take isolated situation and try to turn it to a fact.
Turkey is part of NATO, it's a requirement to only buy weapon systems that are NATO approved or integrated. France will never use the Sidewinder Aim9x air to air missile. US will never use any other country's weapon aside their but the French fighter jets can shoot the AIM 9 and the F16 can shoot the meteor missile. You get the point now. What Turkey did why bought a system that is dangerous to the overall defense of NATO.
Russia can't let NATO inspect the S-400 so there's no idea if that system is pinging info back to Russia.

India has no such agreement with US. India are free to do as it pleases. The US only advised them not to get it but they still went ahead. that scenario has nothing to do with containing China.
India only started buying US systems again of recent. They didn't use to do that because of the previous incident where the US refused to sell weapons system for jets India had already acquired because of Human rights violations and all that.

so you see your point to someone that doesnt know will make perfect sense and sound reasonable when it actually isn't.

I'm sorry if I'm sounding rude. Did you not read where I wrote that the USA had placed a sanction on Russia? And that any country that purchases weapons from them would be sanctioned? Do you want me to give you sources?

USA sanctioning turkey for purchasing s400 has nothing to do with their alliance. They sanctioned them because a law has been placed to sanction anyone who purchases weapons from Russia.

The reason why they haven't sanctioned India right now is because they don't want to be on the bad side of India, since they need them on their side for China.

Let me drop a few sources let it not look like I'm just making assumptions to bash the US

Russia wants recognition and the U.S is not ready to accord her this envious status. Russia wants sphere of influence, American consigned this very thought and Russia itself nto dustbin of history, the era of sphere of influence is gone.



Blame Stalin and Brezhnev for this looming crisis.

MangekyoAlt:


I'm sorry if I'm sounding rude. Did you not read where I wrote that the USA had placed a sanction on Russia? And that any country that purchases weapons from them would be sanctioned? Do you want me to give you sources?

USA sanctioning turkey for purchasing s400 has nothing to do with their alliance. They sanctioned them because a law has been placed to sanction anyone who purchases weapons from Russia.

The reason why they haven't sanctioned India right now is because they don't want to be on the bad side of India, since they need them on their side for China.

Let me drop a few sources let it not look like I'm just making assumptions to bash the US

India are fighting China and Pakistan at the same time. Who needs who in that scenario.

abeg drop your quotes as usual. I'm waiting

emae009:


China are fighting India and Pakistan at the same time. Who needs who in that scenario.

abeg drop your quotes as usual. I'm waiting

I don't really follow politics that much but yet I know that that doesn't matter.
America's main enemy right now is China, and not even Russia.
If you're on reddit, join the geopolitics subreddit and although the sub is filled with biased Europeans you should join and get yourself enlightened on current world politics.

India is very much needed by US if they want to stand a chance at all against China. And for the source I promised to drop earlier here you go

MangekyoAlt:

I don't really follow politics that much but yet I know that that doesn't matter.
America's main enemy right now is China, and not even Russia.
If you're on reddit, join the geopolitics subreddit and although the sub is filled with biased Europeans you should join and get yourself enlightened on current world politics.

India is very much needed by US if they want to stand a chance at all against China. And for the source I promised to drop earlier here you go

"As it is, under normal circumstances, the CAATSA sees interactions with the sanctioned countries as “persons” in 12 categories, but 10 of them will not ordinarily apply to India for its purchase of S-400."

"Since India generally imports weapons following decisions made either by the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) headed by the Defence Minister or the Defence Procurement Board (DPB) headed by the Defence Secretary, it is they, not the country as such, will come under CAATSA restrictions provided they, as persons, seek loans from the US, apply for American visas or buy American properties and so on."

"Turkey’s case, unlike India, is different. Turkey, as a member of NATO, is predominantly dealing with the Western arms in general and the American systems in particular."

"The Americans have a legitimate fear that the purchase and pursuit of the S-400 system would endanger the security of US military technology and personnel. That is precisely the reason why the US has decided to backtrack from its decision of providing the F-35 aircraft to Turkey."

Two different scenarios.

emae009:


"As it is, under normal circumstances, the CAATSA sees interactions with the sanctioned countries as “persons” in 12 categories, but 10 of them will not ordinarily apply to India for its purchase of S-400."

"Since India generally imports weapons following decisions made either by the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) headed by the Defence Minister or the Defence Procurement Board (DPB) headed by the Defence Secretary, it is they, not the country as such, will come under CAATSA restrictions provided they, as persons, seek loans from the US, apply for American visas or buy American properties and so on."

"Turkey’s case, unlike India, is different. Turkey, as a member of NATO, is predominantly dealing with the Western arms in general and the American systems in particular."

"The Americans have a legitimate fear that the purchase and pursuit of the S-400 system would endanger the security of US military technology and personnel. That is precisely the reason why the US has decided to backtrack from its decision of providing the F-35 aircraft to Turkey."

Two different scenarios.

Oga stop being biased and accept fact.