The Intricasies Of Capitalism?

Is it true that american airline pilots earn less than twenty five thousand dollars per annum,less than what bus drivers make in England?With thousands of lives in their hands,some present day american commercial pilots supports their salaries with food stamps.How can that be?

What is going on with capitalism?Who really benefits from capitalism?

ruppert muddock i suppose,?

Absolute capitalism like in america run side by side with democracy.While democracy is of the people,for the people and by the people,capitalism is a few against the masses.

But the coin is turning,the people are beginning to ask questions and they want to know the truth.

Capitalism, Karl Marx aptly described it as the highest level of Imperialism and the reasons r obvious. Capitalism is ultimately self serving and self sustaining and can be likened to a sweet toothed greedy overgrown baby sitting on a huge can of chocolates, he'lld never let anyone else have a taste until he's so full that he's puking! Capitalism is a huge monster being unleashed in every economy and it can only serve itself and its masters. No matter how coloured, its objectives r always the same. Unfortunately, the right people r not the ones asking the right questions, policy makers are content to see a fat obese baby sitting on a can and the baby's well being is passed off as the economy's success, the already brainwashed economic press see nothing more than the deceptively encouraging economic aggregates which they feed to the public who inturn look at the skies with optimism of an elusive better tomorrow and what u have is a complete vicious circle of ignorance and self delusion that plays straight into the hands of conglomerates and other well positioned individuals. Revolution anybody?

Wait till justcash catch you!! He will never admit capitalism is evil!!

Capitalism is the reason I can buy something for 5 bucks and sell it for 300 bucks,

The reason everything in the world is soo expensive is y'all know what!!!

Capitalism is good.
Without capitalism, there would be no free enterprise, no trade in the real sense of it, not much desire to innovate, and no value for effort.
There would even be no Nairaland, or no need for one, so y'all would not have any outlet to come and vent about capitalism.

^^^ Are you talking about Capitalism as a Political Ideology or Capitalism as an Economic system?

Same draconic pattern opportunists like otedola,adenuga,ibru,danjuma and the rest of dem leeches are trying to create in nigeria.Exploiting and hijacking the state resources,making it theirs without prices at the expense of the people.

Nothing belongs to noboby,it belongs to all.The people rules the roost.

redsun:

Is it true that american airline pilots earn less than twenty five thousand dollars per annum,less than what bus drivers make in England?

Reference for this?

Anyway, I agree with AjanleKoko.

redsun:

Same draconic pattern opportunists like otedola,adenuga,ibru,danjuma and the rest of dem leeches are trying to create in nigeria.Exploiting and hijacking the state resources,making it theirs without prices at the expense of the people.

Crony capitalism in which a privileged few suck at the teat of the FG (or are gifted monopolies like Dangote) isn't really what I have in mind as "capitalism"

Capitalism = modern day slavery / colonization.

~Bluetooth:

Capitalism = modern day slavery / colonization.

What do you mean by this? And what would you suggest replacing capitalism with?

Do you dislike private individuals/entities owning property, and being entitled to reap the rewards of selling the fruits of that property?

For those who don't like capitalism . . . Move to North Korea. Apart from that country, I find it hard to identify any other nation that doesn't operate some kind of mixed or market economy. Stop reading textbooks and face reality. By the way, I don't believe airline pilots earn less than bus drivers in America, a heavily unionized country. Impossible.

AjanleKoko:

For those who don't like capitalism . . . Move to North Korea. Apart from that country, I find it hard to identify any other nation that doesn't operate some kind of mixed or market economy. Stop reading textbooks and face reality. By the way, I don't believe airline pilots earn less than bus drivers in America, a heavily unionized country. Impossible.

Hehe. Supposedly North Korea was the more developed part of Korea and the south was a rural backwater. Yet today North Korea is a starving, god-forsaken land and South Korea one of the richest countries on the face of the earth.

God bless capitalism, imo. Let anyone who prefers something else implement it first in his own village or LGA, but stay the hell away from mine

AjanleKoko:

For those who don't like capitalism . . . Move to North Korea. Apart from that country, I find it hard to identify any other nation that doesn't operate some kind of mixed or market economy. Stop reading textbooks and face reality.

Hehehe, I thot u were going to mention China. If u could point to a state where central planning failed woefully, why ignore the one it succeed perfectly?
The very thing wrong with Capitalism is the word 'Capitalism', no such thing exists except where it is convenient to force it down the throats of naive governments. Capitalism has only been sustained in the West by active regulation and government controls that have only painted it to look like a success even when it's increasingly becoming an obvious failure. Capitalism has only survived this long because of its malleability but i'm afraid it cant withstand the pressure any more.
BTW, have u heard the latest compliment? it goes like; Mennn, that was so Chinese! Yeah, u guessed right, China's the new fly. The West as we know it is fading and so is their failing economic ideology and as the world crosscarpets, we'lld need an ideology to see us thru and i can tell u for a fact that it wont be Capitalism, so i guess someone just has to wake up n smell what's cooking and fortunately, i dont think i'm the one!
Ideological fixation has always been a problem so i'm not really expecting it to be any different just yet but trying to depend on capitalism in the coming decades is tantamount to clinging on straws in a sinking boat, surely u know u're going down.

China has been moving towards capitalism since 1979 or so? Deng Xiaoping was the man who initiated this move. And they've been one of the fastest growing economy in the world over that time period.

Lifting literally 100s of millions of people out of poverty.

To me, capitalism is one of the greatest forces for good on earth. Can you imagine making 100s of millions of people not poor again?

wesley80:

Hehehe, I thot u were going to mention China. If u could point to a state where central planning failed woefully, why ignore the one it succeed perfectly?
The very thing wrong with Capitalism is the word 'Capitalism', no such thing exists except where it is convenient to force it down the throats of naive governments. Capitalism has only been sustained in the West by active regulation and government controls that have only painted it to look like a success even when it's increasingly becoming an obvious failure. Capitalism has only survived this long because of its malleability but i'm afraid it cant withstand the pressure any more.
BTW, have u heard the latest compliment? it goes like; Mennn, that was so Chinese! Yeah, u guessed right, China's the new fly. The West as we know it is fading and so is their failing economic ideology and as the world crosscarpets, we'lld need an ideology to see us thru and i can tell u for a fact that it wont be Capitalism, so i guess someone just has to wake up n smell what's cooking and fortunately, i dont think i'm the one!
Ideological fixation has always been a problem so i'm not really expecting it to be any different just yet but trying to depend on capitalism in the coming decades is tantamount to clinging on straws in a sinking boat, surely u know u're going down. ant withstand the pressure any more.
BTW, have u heard the latest compliment? it goes like; Mennn, that was so Chinese! Yeah, u guessed right, China's the new fly. The West as we know it is fading and so is their failing economic ideology and as the world crosscarpets, we'lld need an ideology to see us thru and i can tell u for a fact that it wont be Capitalism, so i guess someone just has to wake up n smell what's cooking and fortunately, i dont think i'm the one!
Ideological fixation has always been a problem so i'm not really expecting it to be any different just yet but trying to depend on capitalism in the coming decades is tantamount to clinging on straws in a sinking boat, surely u know u're going down.

The West isn't failing because of capitalism; some countries in the West are failing because of the laws of economics - perfect competition and the re-balancing of resources. Please read Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations. The implementation and promotion of Capitalism in China (State) and India has meant that factors of production are being harnessed in Asia more efficiently. For instance a third of rare earth materials are present in China but China holds above 80% of the Rare Earth market because it is cheaper to mine Rare Earth Materials in China than in the US which holds as much reserves as China. China has used this position to restrict the export of Rare Earth ensuring that many companies site their factories and operations in China.

The US isn't able to compete because land, labour, and capital are more expensive there whereas land and labour are cheap in China while the Government provides cheap capital.

ekt_bear:

China has been moving towards capitalism since 1979 or so? Deng Xiaoping was the man who initiated this move. And they've been one of the fastest growing economy in the world over that time period.

Lifting literally 100s of millions of people out of poverty.

To me, capitalism is one of the greatest forces for good on earth. Can you imagine making 100s of millions of people not poor again?

Do u know u could get shot for making such an utterance in China? May Chairman Mao 4give u.

wesley80:

Do u know u could get shot for making such an utterance in China? May Chairman Mao 4give u.

My own understanding of the China situation is that the economy is mostly capitalistic. However, the government is entirely controlled by one party.

So you have pure capitalism + one-party state w/o a Western-style democracy.

To be quite honest, while I think that democracy is the best form of government, I don't think it is essential. Key things seem to be to:
A) have capitalism
B) Whatever form of government you chose, have wise leaders who aren't too corrupt and work for the interest of the nation.

In practice though, getting good leaders who are relatively selfless and upright seems to be much harder w/o having a democracy. I should probably say "much much much harder", to emphasize how hard it is to get good leadership with those others systems.

Airline pilots in Yankee do earn a pittance. I watched one documentary where this pilot was getting something like $20,000 pa and supplementing her income by working at Walmarts.

There is no perfect ideology, whether Capitalism or Socialism. Most perfect societies run a mixed economy.

redsun:

Is it true that american airline pilots earn less than twenty five thousand dollars per annum,less than what bus drivers make in England?With thousands of lives in their hands,some present day american commercial pilots supports their salaries with food stamps.How can that be?

What is going on with capitalism?Who really benefits from capitalism?

 

Airline pilots in the United States make a decent salary. I don't know the average or median income for airline pilots these days, but an experienced pilot who regularly flies a 747 on transoceanic routes, for example, can make well over $150, 000/yr in base salary. A pilot's pay, as you can image, depends on the pilot's experience, rank, type of aircraft flown, route he or she flies, and the carrier. A full-fledged Captain, for example, will command a higher pay than the first officer, who is second in command of an airliner to the pilot. However, for a pilot fresh out of flight school who is trying to earn flight hours for experience and to advance his skills, the pay can be as low as $40,000/year (even lower, if you can't find full-time work). Generally, if you have multi-engine, Instrument Landing, jet and commercial aircraft qualifications, you should expect to earn in the six figures. There are senior pilots who earn $180K to over $200K per year.

Long ago, one of my neighbors in a housing complex we used to live flew the San Jose, CA to Reno, Nevada route for an airline called Reno Air (Reno Air has long been acquired by American Airlines). He used to tell me stories about the airline business, compensations, and extracurricular activities airline pilots engage in with the crew on overnight stays away from their home base. I remember that he was quite wealthy since he kept a real estate business on the side when he was not on duty. We lost contact with him when number two came along and we had to move to a larger house. The $150K figure I gave was from one of my conversations with him.

ekt_bear:

My own understanding of the China situation is that the economy is mostly capitalistic. However, the government is entirely controlled by one party.

So you have pure capitalism + one-party state w/o a Western-style democracy.

To be quite honest, while I think that democracy is the best form of government, I don't think it is essential. Key things seem to be to:
A) have capitalism
B) Whatever form of government you chose, have wise leaders who aren't too corrupt and work for the interest of the nation.

In practice though, getting good leaders who are relatively selfless and upright seems to be much harder w/o having a democracy. I should probably say "much much much harder", to emphasize how hard it is to get good leadership with those others systems.

In a nutshell, that is what is referred to as State Capitalism; also practiced in Brazil and the middle east. The right model for resource rich countries because it doesn't promote innovation. It encourages firms to copy practices that are working elsewhere.

Personally, I believe in the Capitalist model practiced in Germany and Austria which encourages the Mittlestand i.e lots of small and medium sized business. France and Britain have more fortune 500 firms than Germany but the Germany economy has been stronger than the other two economies for decades.

Ibime:

Airline pilots in Yankee do earn a pittance. I watched one documentary where this pilot was getting something like $20,000 pa and supplementing her income by working at Walmarts.

There is no perfect ideology, whether Capitalism or Socialism. Most perfect societies run a mixed economy.

I am sure thats not what u mean. 

But I get your point; I believe that Scandinavians have the best political model as it enforces family and leisure priorities.

Ibime:

Airline pilots in Yankee do earn a pittance. I watched one documentary where this pilot was getting something like $20,000 pa and supplementing her income by working at Walmarts.

There is no perfect ideology, whether Capitalism or Socialism. Most perfect societies run a mixed economy.

 
It's not true that airline pilots in the US make less than $20K/yr. The pilot shown in your documentary most likely had a Single-Engine qualification and nothing more. That's no better than hobby piloting.

Katsumoto:

In a nutshell, that is what is referred to as State Capitalism; also practiced in Brazil and the middle east. The right model for resource rich countries because it doesn't promote innovation. It encourages firms to copy practices that are working elsewhere.

Personally, I believe in the Capitalist model practiced in Germany and Austria which encourages the Mittlestand i.e lots of small and medium sized business. France and Britain have more fortune 500 firms than Germany but the Germany economy has been stronger than the other two economies for decades.

I don't know much about Europe. But Italy is also centered around small businesses (at least this is what I gather from my readings online). Textiles especially. Yet their own economy has been pretty crappy for like 20 years now. And competition from China probably has not helped matters.

So can you elaborate a bit more on why you think Germany's small and medium businesses have been successful yet Italy's are failing?

But yeah, I wish I understood why Germany has been so strong, especially relative to the other European countries. Do they have some intrinsic advantage that I'm not aware of. . . ?

Just for laughs


Cows, Geopolitics, and Big Business

Confused about the difference between socialism, Communism, and the politics of huge corporations? This basic “dictionary” may help.

Feudalism: You have two cows. The lord of the manor takes some of the milk. And all the cream.

Pure Socialism: You have two cows. The government takes them and puts them in a barn with everyone else's cows. You have to take care of all the cows. The government gives you as much milk as you need.

Socialism: You have two cows. The government takes one of your cows and gives it to your neighbor. You're both forced to join a cooperative where you have to teach your neighbor how to take care of his cow.

Bureaucratic Socialism: You have two cows. The government takes them and puts them in a barn with everyone else's cows. They are cared for by ex-chicken farmers. You have to take care of the chickens the government took from the chicken farmers. The government gives you as much milk and as many eggs as its regulations say you should need.

Fascism: You have two cows. The government takes both, hires you to take care of them, and sells you the milk.

Pure Communism: You have two cows. Your neighbors help you take care of them, and you all share the milk.

Russian Communism: You have two cows. You have to take care of them, but the government takes all the milk.

Communism: You have two cows. The government seizes both and provides you with milk. You wait in line for you share of the milk, but it's so long that the milk is sour by the time you get it.

Dictatorship: You have two cows. The government takes both and shoots you.

Militarism: You have two cows. The government takes both and drafts you.

Pure Democracy: You have two cows. Your neighbors decide who gets the milk.

Representative Democracy: You have two cows. Your neighbors pick someone to tell you who gets the milk.

American Democracy: The government promises to give you two cows if you vote for it. After the election, the president is impeached for speculating in cow futures. The press dubs the affair "Cowgate." The cows are set free.

Democracy, Democrat-style: You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. You feel guilty for being so successful. You vote politicians into office who tax your cows, which forces you to sell one to pay the tax. The politicians use the tax money to buy a cow for your neighbor. You feel good. Barbra Streisand sings for you.

Democracy, Republican-style: You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. You move to a better neighborhood.

Indian Democracy: You have two cows. You worship them.

British Democracy: You have two cows. You feed them sheep brains and they go mad. The government gives you compensation for your diseased cows, compensation for your lost income, and a grant not to use your fields for anything else. And tells the public not to worry.

Bureaucracy: You have two cows. At first the government regulates what you can feed them and when you can milk them. Then it pays you not to milk them. After that it takes both, shoots one, milks the other, and pours the milk down the drain. Then it requires you to fill out forms accounting for the missing cows.

Anarchy: You have two cows. Either you sell the milk at a fair price or your neighbors try to kill you and take the cows.

Capitalism: You have two cows. You lay one off, and force the other to produce the milk of four cows. You are surprised when she drops dead.

Singaporean Democracy: You have two cows. The government fines you for keeping two unlicensed farm animals in an apartment.

Hong Kong Capitalism (alias Enron Capitalism):
     You have two cows.
     You sell three of them to your publicly-listed company, using letters of credit opened by your brother-in-law at the bank, then execute an debt/equity swap with associated general offer so that you get all four cows back, with a tax deduction for keeping five cows.
     The milk rights of six cows are transferred via a Panamanian intermediary to a Cayman Isands company secretly owned by the majority shareholder, who sells the rights to all seven cows' milk back to the listed company.
     The annual report says that the company owns eight cows, with an option on one more.
     Meanwhile, you kill the two cows because the Feng Shui is bad.

Environmentalism: You have two cows. The government bans you from milking or killing them.

Totalitarianism: You have two cows. The government takes them and denies they ever existed. Milk is banned.

Foreign Policy, American-Style: You have two cows. The government taxes them and uses the money to buy a cow for a poor farmer a country ruled by a dictator. The farmer has no hay to feed the cow and his religion forbids him from eating it. The cow dies. The man dies. The dictator confiscates the dead man's farm and sells it, using the money to purchase US military equipment. The President declares the program a success and announces closer ties with our new ally.

Bureaucracy, American-Style: You have two cows but you have to kill one of them because the government will only give you a license for one of them. The license requires you to sell all your milk to the government, which uses it to make cheese. The government pays lots of money to store the cheese in refrigerated warehouses. When the cheese spoils, the government distributes it to the poor. The poor get sick from the cheese, go to the emergency room, and are turned away because they have no health insurance. The President declares the program a success and reminds us that we have the finest health care system in the world.

American Corporation: You have two cows. You sell one to a subsidiary company and lease it back to yourself so you can declare it as a tax loss. Your bosses give you a huge bonus. You inject the cows with drugs and they produce four times the normal amount of milk. Your bosses give you a huge bonus. When the drugs cause one of the cows to drop dead you announce to the press that you have down-sized, reducing expenses by 50 percent. The company stock goes up and your bosses give you a huge bonus. You lay off all your workers and move your production facilities to Mexico. You get a huge bonus. You contribute some of your profit to the President's re-election campaign. The President announces tax cuts for corporations in order to stimulate the economy.

Japanese Corporation: You have two cows. You redesign them so they are one-tenth the size of an ordinary cow and produce twenty times the milk. You teach the cows to travel on unbelievably crowded trains. Your cows always get higher test scores than cows in the U.S. or Europe, but they drink a lot of sake.

German Corporation: You have two cows. You engineer them so they are all blond, drink lots of beer, give excellent milk, and run a hundred miles an hour. Unfortunately they also demand 13 weeks of vacation per year and are very expensive to repair.

Russian Corporation: You have two cows. You have some vodka. You count your cows and discover you really have five cows! You have more vodka. You count them again and discover you have 42 cows! You stop counting cows and have some more vodka. The Russian Mafia arrives and takes over all your cows. You have more vodka.

Italian Corporation: You have two cows but you can't find them. While searching for them you meet a beautiful woman, take her out to lunch and then make love to her. Life is good.

French Corporation: You have two cows. You go on strike because you want another cow, more vacation and shorter work weeks. The French government announces that it will never agree to your demands. You go to lunch and eat fabulous food and drink wonderful wine. While you are at lunch, the airline pilots and flight controllers join your strike, shutting down all air traffic. The truckers block all the roads and the dock workers block all the ports. By dinner time the French government announces it agrees with all your demands. Life is good.

Political Correctness: You are associated with (the concept of "ownership" is an outdated symbol of your decadent, warmongering, intolerant past) two differently-aged (but no less valuable to society) bovines of non-specified gender. They get married and adopt a calf.

Counterculturalism: Wow, dude, there's like . . . these two cows, man. You have got to have some of this milk.

Surrealism: You have two giraffes. The government requires you to take harmonica lessons.

Katsumoto:

I believe that Scandinavians have the best political model as it enforces family and leisure priorities.

I don't think this type of stuff can work for poor countries though. Once you are rich, you can afford to provide lots of social services and luxuries like that. But for poor countries trying to come up in the world, I think they limit productivity and economic growth.

@ Pifa,

You can read here:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/1579643/

Some start as low as 15k so that documentary (Michael Moore, hehehe) was telling the truth, although obviously, pay can rise to close to $100k over the years.

@ Topic/Ajanlekoko,

I get pissed off when people talk in absolute terms about ideologies as being superior. I'm of the Perronist school of thought when he said "If it suits Argentina to go right, we go right, and if it suits us to go left, we go left".

@ the OP complaining about Airline pilots pay, I was in Cuba 2 months ago where I found that doctors earn $25 per month. Perhaps you would prefer that. At the same time, nobody goes hungry or homeless or "education-less" in the country unlike similar countries such as El-Salvador, Honduras etc.

I like the European model very much, especially Germany, Britain etc. The Scandinavian model may not work if they had a very large population.

ekt_bear:

I don't know much about Europe. But Italy is also centered around small businesses (at least this is what I gather from my readings online). Textiles especially. Yet their own economy has been pretty crappy for like 20 years now. And competition from China probably has not helped matters.

So can you elaborate a bit more on why you think Germany's small and medium businesses have been successful yet Italy's are failing?

But yeah, I wish I understood why Germany has been so strong, especially relative to the other European countries. Do they have some intrinsic advantage that I'm not aware of. . . ?

Italy has been referred to as the Sick man of Europe. It runs one of the most corrupt and inefficient economies in the world. It also has one of the largest underground economies in Europe; its close to 50% I believe. Italy has also tended to concentrate on industries and technologies that have been replicated all over the world.  

Germany on the other hand encourages craftsmanship and engineering which is the best in the world. German machines are required the world over. When demand slowed from the US, demand increased from Germany. Germany has a trade surplus with China because China continues to buy cars, machines, etc from Germany. The Mittlestand model in Germany ensures that over 70% are employed in private industry and most of the mittlestand companies are export oriented companies. It also means that the German economy is vulnerable to a global recession but only if everyone is suffering.

Germany on the other hand

Katsumoto:

The West isn't failing because of capitalism; some countries in the West are failing because of the laws of economics - perfect competition and the re-balancing of resources. Please read Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations. The implementation and promotion of Capitalism in China (State) and India has meant that factors of production are being harnessed in Asia more efficiently. For instance a third of rare earth materials are present in China but China holds above 80% of the Rare Earth market because it is cheaper to mine Rare Earth Materials in China than in the US which holds as much reserves as China. China has used this position to restrict the export of Rare Earth ensuring that many companies site their factories and operations in China.

The US isn't able to compete because land, labour, and capital are more expensive there whereas land and labour are cheap in China while the Government provides cheap capital.

Yes the West is failing because of Capitalism. The key ingredient as u know in every economic system is the allocation of resources and while its left to market forces in capitalism, its not in say China and that's enough to make all the difference. Good thing you mentioned India and China, while India has embraced Capitalism and opened up its mkt, its economy has prospered right? Wrong! Maybe on paper it has but fact is some of the worse levels of poverty exist alongside a fledgling economy and the gulf grows deeper each day and the problem isnt just economic dualism but the inefficient allocation of resources thanks to capitalism. The success of the economy is only self serving, while there is progress, there's a divide that capitalism can not bridge but the illusion of a prospering economy is promoted by deceptive economic aggregates.
Now compare India to China where the govt embraces protectionism and active market regulation, the difference in standard of living and general economic well being becomes all to

@ Ekt bear,

Germany are not laissez faire capitalists due to the need to integrate East Germany into the country. Whilst Britain was downgrading its manufacturing sector and focusing on "service economy", Germany was upgrading their manufacturing sector in order to provide enough employment to account for the East Germans. Germany is no longer price-competitive with regard to Labour so they focus on high-end manufacturing which needs an advanced skill base, similar to the way Taiwan re-engineered their economy to highly advanced manufacturing.

ekt_bear:

I don't think this type of stuff can work for poor countries though. Once you are rich, you can afford to provide lots of social services and luxuries like that. But for poor countries trying to come up in the world, I think they limit productivity and economic growth.

Philosophy and political ideology must not be fixed and rigid. Each country must find the model that suits it best based on resources, rich poor imbalance, and socio-economic factors. Thats why I said I like State Capitalism in Brazil and China, the scandinavian model in self sufficient economies. Poor countries without resources and innovation will remain poor regardless of political ideology.