An initiative of
the National Academy of Public Administration, and the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs and the Bobst Center for Peace and Justice,
Princeton University
Interviewee: Bola Tinubu
Interviewer: Graeme Blair
Date of Interview: 7 August, 2009
Location: Lagos
Nigeria
Innovations for Successful Societies, Bobst Center for Peace and Justice Princeton University, 83 Prospect Avenue, Princeton, New Jersey, 08544, USA www.princeton.edu/successfulsocieties
Use of this transcript is governed by ISS Terms of Use, available at www.princeton.edu/successfulsocieties
BLAIR:
This is Graeme Blair; I am here for an interview for Princeton University with His Excellency the former Governor Mr. [Bola] Tinubu. Thank you very much for agreeing to speak with us.
TINUBU:
You're very welcome, it’s a pleasure.
BLAIR:
You initiated many reforms during your tenure. I wonder if you could begin by telling me which you think were the most important, the ones that had the most impact on people or opened up the window for further reforms.
TINUBU:
First and foremost, when I became governor-elect, I assembled the best brains that I know of because of my previous training. I was trained by Deloitte Touche, formerly Deloitte, Haskins and Sells in Chicago, out of the Illinois practice office, before I joined Mobil. Corporate governance is essentially a great element in public sector management and governance. You have to take a critical
evaluation of what is on the ground–what is the situation on the ground. What are those long-term, medium-term, and short-term gains that can unleash the prosperity of the state. Thinking for change is quite extremely important for such a research-oriented administration. So thinking for change was my mode and my philosophy. Now it can look—there was tremendous decay in the infrastructure: traffic, chaos, unmanageable. Levels of solid waste management requirement that is becoming epidemic for the state, and the state going bust with population; completely disorganized transportation system; disintegrated infrastructure and near bankruptcy; perilous financial situation that required reengineering.
Antiquated accounting system, lack of transparency. It is a two-engine approach.
One, financial engineering of the state that is the commercial center of the country. Constrained with population drift, serious one. Constrained again with a debt asset known as land, and which is the smallest among all the states in the country but with unlimited potential for prosperity. So after the transition group put their recommendations together, it was necessary to develop an agenda from their recommendations. That is when I assembled the best brains and people of integrity to the cabinet to work with me, particularly finance. Legal, that is administration of justice, budgetary process, information system—there was no assistant at that particular time. Created ministries that were needed, various government agencies that I needed, new agencies. I broke some of the [...] over webbed government agencies that were called ministry to a manageable and compact environment to start to work the system.
From there we set the ten-point agenda for the administration, in the short-term; what we see as lower-hanging fruit, the education system that was completely decayed and moved from hope to hopelessness—believing that we must invest in the future of our state and the country if we are to work for the transformation that would be long-term. Education is the greatest weapon against poverty. But if you just talk about it and fail to invest in it you have problems. The schools were collapsing and killing children and pupils, parents in agony. The public school was completely abandoned over the years of military regime.
You have hills, what I would describe as hills or mountains of refuse, solid waste, uncleared. Roads were taken over. Tremendous man-hours, productive hours spent in the traffic, chaotic traffic situation and indiscipline in the driving system in the country. Land system not accounted for. No accountability whatsoever.
Financial statement of seven years not done. The state was running consistently on overdraft, not able to meet its obligations over a bloated payroll system that you could not even identify which workers and which way to do. The problem could have been very overwhelming, but I had a very great team of men and women of strong determination. We had reviews, several times reviews of that agenda, and we developed this system.
First, sustain work force: fail to create additional poverty, or not to sack people first. Look at the system. Tackle the refuse problem. Gradually convert the dead assets, that is the land possession of the people, into valuable means of prosperity for the state. Then, creative means of improving the revenue base to take the state out of bankruptcy or near-bankruptcy was very prominent in my—. The working environment, a time of manual and tedious filing system, missing documentation, untraceable documentation, a humungous bureaucracy that has created elephantiasis—a disease called elephantiasis—for progress of the state.
It was very, very challenging. But we confronted it.
To identify that we needed to be creative and be proactive while we were trying to remove the refuse. The planning period was very, very critical. In the time of wars back then, critical path analysis of what it is that you must do to survive— that was built in the long-term plan of sustainable growth. And we collaborated with the private sector as the engine of growth in the economy of Lagos as well. No investor would come into the state unless we had an effective security, not direct for an investment. What happened, this is being prevalent in this place. I can go on and on in this myriad of problems, a complex situation, can break it into manageable components. Reengineering of the financial system, reinventing governance such that it is a two-engine approach.
Bring in knowledge-based innovation. A ministry of science and technology, a ministry of finance, partnering with outside consultants to develop software that we sought for an effective tax administration, effective accountability, innovation for prosperity. Bring in energy consultants, knowledge-based science and
technology. Because revenue receipt of the government is fudged all over the place. Within one week. No matter what level, hologram or monogram you put on it, it has a printer somewhere, and not many people will look at those things. So if you have to put a control in place, it would be effective.
Now, you cannot do it without building the control mechanism of verifying support. Otherwise it becomes garbage, in garbage out: collusion. So you must be ready to give something up. So when we set up the tax table, as we introduced technology, we brought some other banks to meet with our consultant. The banks now have to respond to the needs of the consultants. If you want to do business with Lagos state, you have to go on the SWIFT system. That you must be able, as governor, must be able to sit in my office as the commissioner for finance—must be able to sit in the office and track the payments to the bank. No more cash payments to government.
So revenue that was 600 million a month grew phenomenally to 2 billion, 3 billion, 4 billion, 5 billion, and it was fluctuating between ten, sometimes a bad month you have eight, before I left office. That is the story of the financial recovery of the state.
BLAIR:
One of the things that we’re interested in is, what some of the political challenges are to getting this work done. What was the political coalition that you put together? Who did you count on for support politically?
TINUBU:
Then?
BLAIR:
Yes.
TINUBU: The public who elected me, first. The group who understands me and the cabinet. Asking them not to expect up front, not to expect patronage in the form of corruption. We would credit their work. If you are competent, they have the employment. We will bring the image of labor back. Unemployed youths who are drafted to become traffic coordinators like LMATS, Lagos Metropolitan Authority Transport System. Brain drain was being turned to brain gain by bringing in some of our well-trained individuals back home from overseas to look into our transport system, LAMATA, that is there today, Dr. Mobereola used to work for the London Bureau of Transportation. The man [Shayo)] Holloway in the Water Corporation used to work for the water—I think, company—in Illinois; now he is there. Bringing back home some of those medical doctors, and I mean the ex-sector. Our hospital was a death clinic. Nothing to be described as a hospital in the health scheme program, part of which had a problem. Today I am very, very proud of what is available to the public, and the healthcare scheme that we introduced in this state was equally an asset of value.
BLAIR:
One of the things people talk about is the difficult relationship with the federal government during your tenure. How would you describe the relationship with the federal government and how you worked on that relationship?
TINUBU:
You have a constitutional democracy and a federal system of government, and there’s a constitution. Unfortunately, you have a president who had governed as a military dictator. They say old habits die hard, and I believe in the federalism, and that’s the principle of federalism. I believe in the federalist constitution written by Jefferson and the American system. Each area of complaint, I wanted the president to see me as an autonomous state, freely elected to govern my state, a state that has given, a state that has surrendered some of its powers to the federal to administer—not to be a military administrator or a representative of the president—may declare from the one, and that is the area of conflict. There is an overlap and cumbersome process, and the president wanting to laud his view over us in the Council of State of National Economic Council, raised issues.
But I headed for court several times to challenge over [...] portion of the government. How can I seek approval before I plan my state? The planning approval of the state road, the plan approval for real estate development is a serious matter. I went to the Supreme Court and challenged several unconstitutional habits of the federal government. Use a civilized manner to correct the anomalies which impeach—a previous military officer would not see as positive, not as a matter of principle, from the man who sees it as confrontational, but I didn’t care. I was not intimidated, I was just focused seriously on what I need to do for the state and communicated this effectively with the citizens.
BLAIR:
What are some of the ways that they were able to frustrate the work that you were doing? Was it through funding or—?
TINUBU:
It was through funding, sometimes—the irony of it is, so much—. We’re kind of at the story today, not much over time, but the inhibition of approval over deduction of what is even classified as old debts. I brought independent power generating ideas, saying that the most important discovery for humanity in the last 1000 years is electricity, and we must start to tackle the question of electricity. But what have they done in other countries. I consulted with the corporate council on America, in the United States, and as for their needs used my contact with my old colleagues in Deloitte to help me look into means of creating an independent pass which was linked to badges that were being used in the Philippines, pending the activation and commissioning of their nuclear power program. I brought the idea, broke it down to management and the micro level. The impact on the barbershop, creating private employment, creating small-scale business, the need for little capital, exponential effect that we would have on our economy, have on the quality of life, to the president.
Strong determination to ensure that it was done. They killed the idea to some extent, but I was able to salvage about one third of the projects to show a model of 270 megawatts of independent power generation. It worked, even though they fought it initially. If they had allowed it, larger portion of the program, Nigeria would have somewhat to recover the shortage of electricity. But they allowed the 270 megawatts, and instead of allowing it to be dedicated to the industry and the people of Lagos State, they now deliver the generated electricity to national grid and they are charging Lagos State revenue 250 million—it is like a toll gate to nowhere, and I still pay for consumption. We just resolved the matter in court
now. It is such a disincentive, so discouraging. Now they’ve gone back to this IPP Model.
BLAIR:
So you think the relationship has now improved between the Lagos government and the—?
TINUBU:
I think now it is better than before.
BLAIR:
Tell me about the decision to go outside of the political class and go inside your own staff in choosing the next governor. What made you do that?
TINUBU:
I remember noting, part of quality of leadership is the ability to develop a successor. Break [...] the symbolic legacy of an achiever and a leader. But sustenance of the program, long-term recovery and prosperity of the state is more important than those [...] So, after laying a very strong foundation for infrastructural development, the transformation of Lagos State, the financial reengineering, the focused vision for change, you have to look for a successor who can actualize so many dreams, so many ideas, and build from there— opened the difficulty of the past, too, with the government, with the ease of—, and create a conducive environment for an accelerated transformation achievement of the state.
It’s very, very difficult; it needs an assigned person, that can be highly disciplined, highly focused, who understands me, the vision for Lagos—and, you’ll find, incorruptible, that wants to build the system. It can collapse easily if you don’t have a strong, dependable integrity; strongly focused individual that could be tried and tested in known, certain assignments that have given to so many of them. Fashola, he joined the administration five years before as my chief of staff. I evaluated the same work. So the greatest achievement of a leader, I believe, is the ability to build and develop other managers and a good successor that would take the entity beyond the level of ordinary thinking, would combine the thinking and the dream.
BLAIR:
Was it challenging to convince others in the party?
TINUBU:
It was very challenging, it was chaotic. It was crisis, a huge crisis. There were newspaper explosions and so on and so forth. But I stuck to my guns.
BLAIR:
Did you play a role after his inauguration or now? Some people say you are the political minder while he is getting things done?
TINUBU:
We set a model. We set a model. I know what I went through. For example, I had to return a mission school. That was taken over by Fair Act, the Catholic school, the Baptist, all of them. It was shocking to the Muslim community. As a Muslim to want to return these schools to the missions that had been taken over. It was one of the toughest decisions of my administration to really convince the public why we must [...] a competitive environment. The mission must be allowed to work on their schools, we can’t say public schools. We will build our own if you like, take your own back as a community. It was tough. My parents nearly disowned me at this stage. I almost lost support.
After they were convinced, that support, that was a tremendous amount of support. They see the wisdom, they see the value. If you go to those schools today you’d be proud, I am proud I did it, created a competitive environment, great standard for education and so forth. So since I went through so many political conflicts, and here is a private-sector-oriented technocrat, mixing politics and job would slow him down, definitely. So we built a model that he should focus purely on the job, driving tradition, transformation program, building on those foundations. I will take care of the political nuances and conflicts that will help to release his time, because time is the most valuable asset.
For full interview in PDF, visit: https://successfulsocieties.princeton.edu/interviews/bola-tinubu 1 Like 1 Share 
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