Many people have asked me this question in several threads, so let's discuss it
What's your take

lol. This is my ramadhan gift. Joeagabaje and the christians got themselves in human waste storage.

I wanna see how they will get out, climbing up on one another to get deeper in the soaker.

I am gonna enjoy this one.

Thank you Allah.

Alhamdulillah. Shukrilillah.

Boys and girls, start your engine. This is truly a summer classic.

@rezzy; I am awaiting your contribution. Seee o ri Ise Olorun Oba?

but oga Jo you seem to never cease from getting enough of controversies becos in my opinion this might just be another hit in the all time rating of controversies. hmmmm

No be me talk am na. It's the question they've being asking me that I quote paul too much
And that between paul and Jesus who should we believe
That's why Im asking

@Joagbaje

If in truth there is no contradiction between the teaching of Christ and of Paul why would there be a need to choose? Has it occurred to you that perhaps it is misinformed to say there is a contradiction?

Anyway, as starter of the thread, you cannot just make a bald post as you have done so far, you would need to do the following:

Set out (a few of) the statements/teachings of Jesus and Paul that "contradict" each other and let us examine them.

My advice for you Jo, is :

"But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness " - 2 Timothy 2:16

Do not debate the heathen which include Muslims and Catholic Pagans.

It's like throwing pearls to swine, sorry it's harsh but Jesus used these same words.

"Don't waste what is holy on people who are unholy. Don't throw your pearls to pigs! They will trample the pearls, then turn and attack you." - Matthew 7:6

The only word of GOD they need to hear is that of salvation . If they reject it, then there is no hope for their souls.

As for debating this topic with believers, it is a non starter because we all believe that Paul just like Peter, James, John etc was an apostle of Christ.

@Joagbaje
ok o but for the most part it doesn't look like an expression you borrowed from "them" many would be tempted to see it as a thought from you perhaps in an attempt to raise another "self-seeking-controversial-attention" and the lines of the first contributor would relatively justify my concerns. Anyway fingers crossed.
Be that as it may let ask what are you really expecting from this "them" group of persons you seem to suggest you quoted?

frosbel:

My advice for you Jo, is :

"But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness " - 2 Timothy 2:16

Do not debate the heathen which include Muslims and Catholic Pagans.

It's like throwing pearls to swine, sorry it's harsh but Jesus used these same words.

"Don't waste what is holy on people who are unholy. Don't throw your pearls to pigs! They will trample the pearls, then turn and attack you." - Matthew 7:6

The only word of GOD they need to hear is that of salvation . If they reject it, then there is no hope for their souls.

As for debating this topic with believers, it is a non starter because we all believe that Paul just like Peter, James, John etc was an apostle of Christ.

u r one of the biggest fools on this site.classifying catholics as pagans.what have u penterascals contributed to christianity other than the worship of money? MUMU

@joe

in what ways are the teachings of St Paul @ variance with that of Jesus?hope u don't mind expatiating?it is a non starter because we all believe that Paul just like Peter, James, John etc was an apostle of Christ.




[quote][/quote]

u r one of the biggest fools on this site.classifying catholics as pagans.what have u penterascals contributed to christianity other than the worship of money? MUMU

@joe

in what ways are the teachings of St Paul @ variance with that of Jesus?hope u don't mind expatiating?

I am sorry to offend you by Ibo brother.

I was once a catholic and was even elected as General Secretary for a youth catholic group, many years back.


Invoking DEAD SAINTS ( Necromancy ) to pray for you, idolization of Mary, bowing before statues, incense and candle burning , etc etc are ALL PAGAN practices and have nothing to do with salvation.

The greatest of all heresies however is the MASS. This is utter blasphemy.

It's either JESUS and him ONLY . Any addition is PAGAN and heresy.

My priest loved the booze, many priests abuse children and impregnate nuns, forbidding to marry, this is the largest PAGAN CULT after ISLAM on planet earth.

frosbel:

My advice for you Jo, is :

"But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness " - 2 Timothy 2:16

Do not debate the heathen which include Muslims and Catholic Pagans.

It's like throwing pearls to swine, sorry it's harsh but Jesus used these same words.

"Don't waste what is holy on people who are unholy. Don't throw your pearls to pigs! They will trample the pearls, then turn and attack you." - Matthew 7:6

The only word of GOD they need to hear is that of salvation . If they reject it, then there is no hope for their souls.

As for debating this topic with believers, it is a non starter because we all believe that Paul just like Peter, James, John etc was an apostle of Christ.

Thanks for the advice but I don't see preference between paul and Jesus
Paul came to compliment the teaching of christ so I don't see a reason for comparison between the two of them
It's like comparing who the best is between the holy ghost and Jesus christ

newmi:

@Joagbaje
ok o but for the most part it doesn't look like an expression you borrowed from "them" many would be tempted to see it as a thought from you perhaps in an attempt to raise another "self-seeking-controversial-attention" and the lines of the first contributor would relatively justify my concerns. Anyway fingers crossed.

I reserve my comment on that

newmi:

@Joagbaje
Be that as it may let ask what are you really expecting from this "them" group of persons you seem to suggest you quoted?

What I want to achieve os that I expected those who look at the teaching of paul in a derogatory way and compare to the teaching of christ, I expect them to respond and say why they feel we are idolising paul above christ, they should proove the dissimilarities to us

@Joeagbaje and the hordes of christians crusading against one another, can you handle the fact that paul nailed OT to the cross with Jesus, while jesus said not only that he came to fulfill it, but warned that anyone who abolishes even the littlest of the OT, in christianity [if i can specify it as such] shall be the least in the kingdom of heaven?

When Paul nails or abrogates the Laws and Prophets, what is Paul [the unknown to Jesus], really to Jesus then?

You people follow Paul and forget Jesus in the above.

Another; The Kosher law. Jesus followed it as a good child of Israel {Jacob}. Paul allows you to eat everything.

How about circumcision? Jesus was circumcised {imagine the knife and the holder of the knife that cut off the foreskin of your lord?}. Paul said come off it. No circumcision for you. All you africans who are circumcised are so because of african traditions, not because of Christianity. Mine, a muslim was primarily done because of Islam.

@rezzy; I am throwing a party for you. I want you to watch how the christians are going to be dancing around the subject of who is it that they believe. belief is not only of mouth, it is by soul and heart too, therefore you actualize it.

When it is Paul who takes precedence over Jesus, who is it that Christians believe? This is the question. and you are my transformer that I do not want to hug until you wear hijab. then I will tell your husband to hug you for me.

There is no controversy over this issue, i will only advice them to move closer to their Bible, to be able to have the full knowledge of the word

the christians are running. but you can't hide.

There's nothing like Paul and Jesus. The words and letters of Paul are the words and letters of Jesus.

^^^ this is funny.

Paul is now Jesus. I guess he is the reincarnation of Jesus. Or he housed Jesus. Or. Or. Or.


@Image123; the Or. Or. Or. are your shows; fill in the gaps, man.

Unless it is some kind of weird stuff going on, an entity that hated you will not be your elect over those who were there with you from the beginning.

If strength, faith or family history, etc is the criterion for choosing a successor, or leadership of your followers, the disciples of Jesus were head and shoulders better than Paul.

Paul turned the message of Jesus on its head or upside down, if you will.

Is this what you expect of your successor? Jesus said he was sent by God. Paul said Jesus was God. God is One said Jesus His Messenger to the children of Israel nations. Paul said there are now 3 Gods and Jesus was sent to the whole world.

Paul never claimed to be Jesus or his incarnate, why waste our time comparing personalities not on the same level? Similar to comparing a fridge and cooker

@Sweetnecta

@Joeagbaje and the hordes of christians crusading against one another, can you handle the fact that paul nailed OT to the cross with Jesus, while jesus said not only that he came to fulfill it, but warned that anyone who abolishes even the littlest of the OT, in christianity [if i can specify it as such] shall be the least in the kingdom of heaven?

Jesus Christ came to fulfill the LAW which can be summed up in 2 lines

1- Love the Lord GOD with all your heart , your might and your soul

2. Love your neighbor as yourself.

Paul never said the LAW was null and void, he said it was nailed to the cross.

In other words , we are no longer working hard like Muslims to try our fleshly best and efforts  to fulfill the Law , but we are fulfilling the LAW in Christ Jesus who was nailed to the cross for us.

Think about the statement Paul made below :

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." - Romans 8:2

We are now led by the Spirit and fulfill the LAW in Christ Jesus if we obey the leading of the Holy Spirit.

"For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God." - Romans 8:14

Any Christian who disobeys the leading of the Holy Spirit will eventually follow the leading of the devil and be brought back under the condemnation of the LAW.

In summary therefore what this depicts is that none of us can fulfill the requirements of the LAW except through Jesus Christ.

In our human form we are weak and frail , we need a greater power which is the Power of the Holy Spirit to lead us into all righteounsess thus fulfilling the LAW.

But let us examine Muhammad's life with these two summarised laws :

1. Love the Lord thy God with all your heart, might and soul.


If Muhammad truly loved GOD he will not murder thousands in the name of this same GOD, because as you can imagine , GOD loves all his creation and not just Muslims.

If Muhammad truly loved GOD, he would not have been a habitual liar and deceiver which we all know he was

If Muhammad truly loved GOD he would have preached to the LOST to convert out of LOVE and not at the point of the SWORD



2. Love your neighbor as yourself

In other words treat people the way you will like to be treated.


If Muhammad loved his neigbour, he will not marry their 9 year old daughter

If Muhammad loved his neighbor he will not steal his son's wife

If Muhammad loved his neighbor he will not steal the goods and wealth of others

If Muhammad loved his neighbor he will not curse his enemies

The list is endless.

So Muhammad was a MORAL FAILURE !!!!!

When Paul nails or abrogates the Laws and Prophets, what is Paul [the unknown to Jesus], really to Jesus then?

As described above, he did not

Another; The Kosher law. Jesus followed it as a good child of Israel {Jacob}. Paul allows you to eat everything.

Here you further confuse yourself.

Jesus Christ came during the times of the LAW , when there was no final sacrifice by our eternal high priest in fulfuillment of the LAW.

Listen to what Jesus Christ said about food.

"It's not what goes into your mouth that defiles you; you are defiled by the words that come out of your mouth."- Matthew 15:11

"anything you eat passes through the stomach and then goes into the sewer.But the words you speak come from the heart--that's what defiles you.For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, all intimate immorality, theft, lying, and slander.These are what defile you. Eating with unwashed hands will never defile you." - Matt 15:17-20

How about circumcision? Jesus was circumcised {imagine the knife and the holder of the knife that cut off the foreskin of your lord?}. Paul said come off it. No circumcision for you. All you africans who are circumcised are so because of african traditions, not because of Christianity. Mine, a muslim was primarily done because of Islam.

You are truly blind for you cannot grasp the spiritual truths of GOD.

Of a truth God said, these things are impossible to decipher by unbelievers.

"At that same time Jesus was filled with the joy of the Holy Spirit, and he said, "O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hiding these things from those who think themselves wise and clever, and for revealing them to the childlike. Yes, Father, it pleased you to do it this way." - Luke 10:21

But let me help you.

All that happened in the old testament in reference to circumcision, foods , holidays etc were physical shadows of the things to come.


"For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality." - Colossians 2:17

Whereas in the old testament we had circumscision of the flesh, in the new testament we have circumscion of the heart which means to be born again, to be given a new heart by GOD and the old sinful heart removed.

Islam as is the case with all pagan religions focuses on man's effort to please GOD by outward works, unfortunately it is all in vain and a waste of your time and life.

@rezzy; I am throwing a party for you. I want you to watch how the christians are going to be dancing around the subject of who is it that they believe. belief is not only of mouth, it is by soul and heart too, therefore you actualize it.

You Mock that which you do not understand, for except the ligh of GOD which is Christ himself shines on the darkness in your heart the bible will always be a story book to you.

This is why Muhammad could not comprehend the bible and instead wandered into error , talking and writing about things which were beyond his physical ability to grasp. He truly was blind and is a blind prophet leading a blind people into HELL FIRE.

"so ignore them. They are blind guides leading the blind, and if one blind person guides another, they will both fall into a ditch." Matt 15:14

When it is Paul who takes precedence over Jesus, who is it that Christians believe? This is the question. and you are my transformer that I do not want to hug until you wear hijab. then I will tell your husband to hug you for me.

Paul was an apostle of Christ, just like Peter , John, James, Jude etc etc.

These were HOLY SPIRIT MEN speaking and writing the very WORDS OF JESUS as they were inspired.

They were not MEN who wrote a book under the influence of an anonymous angel.

The entire bible are the words of GOD and thus of JESUS.



Again I say picking out random verses from the bible wil not help your case because you lack of revealer of the deep truths of GOD.

Who is Jesus?
The Son of God, the only begotten of the Father, God manifest in flesh! To Whom be all praise and worship forever. Jesus is the Stone against which the Jews and Muslims stumble.

Who is Paul
In his own words:
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God

necta
Don't convulse over nothing my man. Just sit and be looking since you don't have any idea. All of the Bible, whether Peter, Moses, Isaiah or Paul are all the words of Jesus. Jesus is the word personified.

Hmm. . . Bro Jo

The Bible is the word of God. Those who wrote were only scribes. The author is Christ. Jesus Christ was and is the word thats why He never wrote anything when He was here in human form because He was The Word. What Paul wrote is what God was saying, if you believe the Bible to be the word of God. Why names and personal pronouns by the scribes, only requires revelation to understand it. Go beyond the letters. Without the Holy Spirit in you, you can never understand the Word.

We dont explain the Biible by theology, or seminary education. Its by faith. Believe everything that the Word says and there will be absolutely no contradiction whatsover.The Pharisees because of their education missed Him by a million miles when Isaiah 53 stood in front of them.

Believe from the heart. Its by faith.

When you accept the word, there is no Paul, John, Peter, Moses etc. It becomes the Bible the Word of God.

If you do not accept the Bible to be His word, then thats another story. You can get PHD, DDLDs, QQLLLQQQDs and you will be confused even more.

What is the difference between the bible as 'the word of God' and Jesus as the Word (logos)?

newmi:

but oga Jo you seem to never cease from getting enough of controversies becos in my opinion this might just be another hit in the all time rating of controversies. hmmmm

Joagbaje:

No be me talk am na. It's the question they've being asking me that I quote paul too much
And that between paul and Jesus who should we believe
That's why Im asking

In hindsight OP question should have been between Pastor Chris, Paul and Jesus, who do you believe

^^^^Paul and Jesus are being discussed.

@Pidzo; « #16 on: Today at 12:38:56 PM »
[Quote]Paul never claimed to be Jesus or his incarnate, why waste our time comparing personalities not on the same level? Similar to comparing a fridge and cooker Grin Grin Grin Grin[/Quote]Thank you for the bold. Though Fridge is a Trademark or company name, the product you may be referring to from them is a refrigerator. Frosbel, your brother disagreed with you with the bold, the reason i expanded on what you said timidly by saying Paul's letters are truly Jesus'. This is absolutely not so and Pidzo has supported my position, if only in this while he shares Trinity and others with you.

I like your great truth begins as blasphemy; This is what Islam is to Christianity and Judaism and other world's religions. This is what the position of Muhammad [as] is to popularly held Christian views of God and then of Jesus son of Mary.



@frosbel (m) « #17 on: Today at 12:44:04 PM »
[Quote]@Sweetnecta
Quote
@Joeagbaje and the hordes of christians crusading against one another, can you handle the fact that paul nailed OT to the cross with Jesus, while jesus said not only that he came to fulfill it, but warned that anyone who abolishes even the littlest of the OT, in christianity [if i can specify it as such] shall be the least in the kingdom of heaven?
Jesus Christ came to fulfill the LAW which can be summed up in 2 lines
1- Love the Lord GOD with all your heart , your might and your soul
2. Love your neighbor as yourself.[/Quote]If we look at the 10 Commandments and nothing else, based on Jesus' first statement that nothing of these 10 Commandments must be abolished even the least of it which he said he came to fulfill. Lets take the dietary law as the least of it, or pick anyone of them as your least when you respond. Jesus didn't eat pork. That was part of the law. How do you work the dietary ruling here to either of the 1 and 2 you wrote above, love is completely difference from obedience. Obedience because you love will comprise all that you must obey, willingly not with any grumbling. If you obey, it does not translate to love and you can obey without love. But you truly love you obey willingly. {I will not even bring the crucifixion of crucifiction to the discussion}.



[Quote]Paul never said the LAW was null and void, he said it was nailed to the cross.
In other words , we are no longer working hard like Muslims to try our fleshly best and efforts  to fulfill the Law , but we are fulfilling the LAW in Christ Jesus who was nailed to the cross for us.

Think about the statement Paul made below :
"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." - Romans 8:2
We are now led by the Spirit and fulfill the LAW in Christ Jesus if we obey the leading of the Holy Spirit.
"For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God." - Romans 8:14[/Quote]please see the bold, explain the dietary issue that you no longer follow by the misleading instruction of Paul above or somewhere in your Bible. It is obvious that Jesus didn't eat Pork. It is clear that you as a christian can eat pork now based on what Paul said. Is the law of Kosher as observed by Jesus not rendered null and void by Paul if by Paul's statement you can now eat pork? I am using pork because it may be the only thing you know about the children of Israel.



[Quote]Any Christian who disobeys the leading of the Holy Spirit will eventually follow the leading of the devil and be brought back under the condemnation of the LAW.[/Quote]Give me the name of the holy spirit in the same way you will quickly give me the name of Chrst as Jesus. You don't know it, so it does not exist, hence Trinity is dead because you have no 3 Gods, but falsely claims so and even you Two[nity] is dead just as much since Jesus said "Your servant Jesus, who You sent". God is not a "SERVANT of another or any GOD", because beside God there is no God.



[Quote]In summary therefore what this depicts is that none of us can fulfill the requirements of the LAW except through Jesus Christ.
In our human form we are weak and frail , we need a greater power which is the Power of the Holy Spirit to lead us into all righteounsess thus fulfilling the LAW.[/Quote]You are so busted. John the son of Zacharias was sinless. So was his father. Both were in the time of Jesus. Didn't they fulfill the entire laws? If not, please tell us where or which one they failed in. Before Jesus and later Paul's gimmick about him, Job was sinless. I could give yo many more. But one is enough. I don't intent to teach you more than your capability.



[Quote]But let us examine Muhammad's life with these two summarised laws :
1. Love the Lord thy God with all your heart, might and soul.
If Muhammad truly loved GOD he will not murder thousands in the name of this same GOD, because as you can imagine , GOD loves all his creation and not just Muslims.[/Quote]Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon prayed or fought in battles against disbelievers for the sake of God. Millions of people died in their hands. Muhammad [AS] is in good company.



[Quote]If Muhammad truly loved GOD, he would not have been a habitual liar and deceiver which we all know he was
If Muhammad truly loved GOD he would have preached to the LOST to convert out of LOVE and not at the point of the SWORD[/Quote]only you and your group are the people on the bold. I do not know. And no muslim knows. According to the Bible, God is God of Abraham; Abraham didn't say he was the husband of Sarah in the presence of Pharaoh who was after her. God is the God of Jacob. We know Jacob and his mother Rebecca didn't come out as clearly as they should to Isaac against Esau, the reason the birth right was lost. Jacob used leaves to secure the pregnant ewe from his shepherd partners when he ran away after winning what belonged to his older and hard working brothers. You see where I am going with this. Can you tell me any habitual lie and deception from Muhammad [as]?



[Quote]2. Love your neighbor as yourself
In other words treat people the way you will like to be treated.[/Quote]And if you are a sadist, treat them the way you want to be treated? You people forget that the Only Way and Rule belong to God. Even God is unhappy with disbelief, the reason He creates Hell fire, then guidance on mankind to avoid hell fire. The guidance is Mercy. Read the Quran and God does not need to hang anyone before protecting another from hell.



[Quote]If Muhammad loved his neigbour, he will not marry their 9 year old daughter
If Muhammad loved his neighbor he will not steal his son's wife[/Quote]Even if the 9 years old was engaged to a future husband for a long time, many years after it she married the messenger [AS]? How many years should a person remain 9 years old? A wealthy father who divorces a wife because she was a pagan does not go to her behind everyone in the community to get her pregnant. Otherwise, it would have been counted as some of his faults; the shia never used such issue against Abu Bakr [ra]. This by itself shows that there was no new child born by Abu Bakr upon his entry to islam, which was in the first year of revelation. If Islam was 13 years in Makka, Aisha [ra] could not be less than 13 when Migration took place. Definitely, 13 is many years more than 9. Well it took 2 years in Madina to consummate the marriage. She is at least 15 here, with menses. 1400 years ago, a 15 year year old male or female must somehow by many traditions be adults; even adulthood is still 13 years with the Children of Israel. Please when was Aisha [ra] born, with proofs, please?



[Quote]If Muhammad loved his neighbor he will not steal the goods and wealth of others
If Muhammad loved his neighbor he will not curse his enemies[/Quote]Jesus of the Bible by eminent domain took what belonged to his neighbors for example; 1 donkey and or 2 donkeys he rode. Jesus cursed even his friend; Peter he called satan, unless that was not a curse in your book, so you are satan, therefore? Jesus cursed the whole community; some fools, a tribe dogs, a community; leeches, vipers, etc. Imagine what he said to his enemies, before the lame "forgive them because they do not know what they are doing"? Is this possible from the Biblical icon who blamed God for his condition? How about the thief who was suffering the same fate as him? Frosbel, thank God for your ignorance. We were talking about Jesus versus Paul. But you have to bring Muhammad [as] to deflect the heavy blows. it will not work.



[Quote]The list is endless.
So Muhammad was a MORAL FAILURE !!!!![/Quote]look up. I am not shy to list matters. I used your Bibles. If i brought anything from anywhere else, point my foreign material out of the list. Go to Quran and authentic Sunnah and Hadith for your source. Then we will see how sincere you are.



[Quote]
When Paul nails or abrogates the Laws and Prophets, what is Paul [the unknown to Jesus], really to Jesus then?
As described above, he did not[/Quote]take a second look. He did. When Jesus said black. Paul will later say white. Please, the black and white in this case is to show distinction of what the to are; completely different. there is no convergence. Jesus said God is the Judge. Paul and his crowd say Jesus judges all nations, the 12 disciples, no including himself judge the 12 nations of Israel. I have asked; what Role is left for Jehovah?



[Quote]
Another; The Kosher law. Jesus followed it as a good child of Israel {Jacob}. Paul allows you to eat everything.
Here you further confuse yourself.
Jesus Christ came during the times of the LAW , when there was no final sacrifice by our eternal high priest in fulfuillment of the LAW.
Listen to what Jesus Christ said about food.
"It's not what goes into your mouth that defiles you; you are defiled by the words that come out of your mouth."- Matthew 15:11
"anything you eat passes through the stomach and then goes into the sewer.But the words you speak come from the heart--that's what defiles you.For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, all intimate immorality, theft, lying, and slander.These are what defile you. Eating with unwashed hands will never defile you." - Matt 15:17-20[/Quote]is it absolutely true that anything you eat only passes through the stomach and goes out as waste? What happens to the nutrients of what you eat? What good is eating if it only passes through the stomach and goes out as waste? Frosbel, stop eating so that your stomach does not have to receive what will only goes out of your body as 100%, without any single benefit. Or do you going to the waste room? All these britishers are strange; personality and mindset similar to that of the emotionally bruised PASTORAIO [omo boy mo kie dele dele; mio gbagbe e o].

Jesus must have flipflopped if he said all laws and prophets are not to be abolished and he himself turned around and abolished them! What should we make of the the Jesus of the Bibles, even by abolitionist of the law is the least in the kingdom of heaven?



[Quote]
How about circumcision? Jesus was circumcised {imagine the knife and the holder of the knife that cut off the foreskin of your lord?}. Paul said come off it. No circumcision for you. All you africans who are circumcised are so because of african traditions, not because of Christianity. Mine, a muslim was primarily done because of Islam.
You are truly blind for you cannot grasp the spiritual truths of GOD.
Of a truth God said, these things are impossible to decipher by unbelievers.
"At that same time Jesus was filled with the joy of the Holy Spirit, and he said, "O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hiding these things from those who think themselves wise and clever, and for revealing them to the childlike. Yes, Father, it pleased you to do it this way." - Luke 10:21[/Quote]This verse is hug wash because it has no bearing to the law of circumcision, unless you are now saying that Jesus was like "childlike" while others were not? If reality is not part of belief, everyone could have came up with his/her own religion. so to be clever is a prerequisite to know God and abandon gods. This is what I am showing you. paul is a god to you in the same sense you say of Jesus as god, too. You claim trinity in your belief, but you have more gods than the 3 gods. When you take the command of a person and God never commanded it, such a person is your god.



[Quote]But let me help you.
All that happened in the old testament in reference to circumcision, foods , holidays etc were physical shadows of the things to come.[/Quote]Not really, because Jesus said for future usage; no abolition of any of them is permissible, else you are the least. To be the least is not complimentary, but in this case a damnation.



[Quote]"For these rules are only shadows of the reality yet to come. And Christ himself is that reality." - Colossians 2:17[/Quote]Jesus didn't say this, so you failed in your argument. Anyone could have secretly said he is The president of the United States, except that we know who the sitting President is; Barack Hussaine. Jesus left and everyone is writing whatever they want about him. Thats not nice because it is not true.



[Quote]Whereas in the old testament we had circumscision of the flesh, in the new testament we have circumscion of the heart which means to be born again, to be given a new heart by GOD and the old sinful heart removed.[/Quote]You see where you are different from Jesus? Did Jesus say your heart will be circumcised instead of your foreskin? Is circumcision of your heart which Jesus never mentioned now making you a born again? You are so confused; really busted. @JeSoul; have you led Ochocinco to Boston's Gillette stadium at FOXBORO, yet? Please join the humor line on Frosbel.



[Quote]Islam as is the case with all pagan religions focuses on man's effort to please GOD by outward works, unfortunately it is all in vain and a waste of your time and life.[/Quote]If Jesus didn't have a man effort, he would not have cured the blind of blindness. Man effort, is work; something you do. Even speaking is man effort.



[Quote]Quote
@rezzy; I am throwing a party for you. I want you to watch how the christians are going to be dancing around the subject of who is it that they believe. belief is not only of mouth, it is by soul and heart too, therefore you actualize it.
You Mock that which you do not understand, for except the ligh of GOD which is Christ himself shines on the darkness in your heart the bible will always be a story book to you.[/Quote]Alhamdulillah al Dana Islam. I am grateful to God that my deen is Islam. God did not reveal the Bibles to anyone. tell me the name of the person who received the Bibles. He must have a name. Please tell me.



[Quote]This is why Muhammad could not comprehend the bible and instead wandered into error , talking and writing about things which were beyond his physical ability to grasp. He truly was blind and is a blind prophet leading a blind people into HELL FIRE.[/Quote]And Jesus promised a future entity that will correct people away from the lies that was held, after he left. They could not be lying while he was there, he would have corrected them. Who corrected the lies after Jesus left or the lies are not there in the first place; wondering why Jesus will say this about the Another Comforter?



[Quote]"so ignore them. They are blind guides leading the blind, and if one blind person guides another, they will both fall into a ditch." Matt 15:14[/Quote]See why I will not follow you in blind faith?



[Quote]
When it is Paul who takes precedence over Jesus, who is it that Christians believe? This is the question. and you are my transformer that I do not want to hug until you wear hijab. then I will tell your husband to hug you for me.
Paul was an apostle of Christ, just like Peter , John, James, Jude etc etc.[/Quote]What made him an apostle? Did Jesus appointed him? How? When, where and why? It is easy to lie on Jesus; which is what you are doing now because he is not ere to defend himself.



[Quote]These were HOLY SPIRIT MEN speaking and writing the very WORDS OF JESUS as they were inspired.
They were not MEN who wrote a book under the influence of an anonymous angel.[/Quote]Angel Gabriel is anonymous to you? be at least be honest. How did Jesus inspire when he can't even do anything of his own power?



[Quote]The entire bible are the words of GOD and thus of JESUS.
Again I say picking out random verses from the bible wil not help your case because you lack of revealer of the deep truths of GOD.[//Quote]Frosbel is frustrated; God and thus Jesus? who did jesus revealed the entire Bible to; a name of a prophet, please? Though I know you said men were inspired later to write the Bibles of that still unnamed prophet.



@aletheia (m)« #18 on: Today at 12:51:23 PM »
[Quote]Who is Jesus?
The Son of God, the only begotten of the Father, God manifest in flesh! To Whom be all praise and worship forever. Jesus is the Stone against which the Jews and Muslims stumble.[/Quote]Who is Mary the mother of Jesus; if Jesus is the son of God, should Mary be less than the wife of God, otherwise somtinrung?



[Quote]Who is Paul
In his own words:
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God[/Quote]And the [playa] didn't use Jesus' words above. Paul is a servant of the servant of God, because jesus said about God "Jesus, Your servant, who You sent". There is a false statement somewhere. Can you identify it?



[Quote]Ὁ Λόγος πλήρης χάριτος καὶ [/Quote]Reality; they left Aramaic, or Syriac, or Hebrew for Greek. Tell me which part of the Bible that was revealed in Greek?



@Image123 (m)
[Quote]In Christ (who is) the Son of God who died for the redemption of sinners and resurrected after 3days. This is the greatest truth in the universe[/Quote]calculate 3 says and 3 nights from just before sunset Friday to just before Sunrise Sunday? Never mind after 3 days because thats a tall order.



[Quote]« #19 on: Today at 01:17:10 PM »

necta
[b]Don't convulse over nothing my man[/b]. Just sit and be looking since you don't have any idea. All of the Bible, whether Peter, Moses, Isaiah or Paul are all the words of Jesus. Jesus is the word personified.[/Quote]Allah has protected me from such disaster, and please just making empty claims without a single proof will not help you. Jesus obeyed the laws of Moses, for a starter. That kills the long bold. God needs not to obey laws of prophet Moses. God sent Moses on errand[s].



@donnie(m)« #20 on: Today at 05:44:50 PM »

Undecided Hmm. . . Bro  Jo
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Behold, I will make thee a new sharp threshing instrument having teeth
Bro Pee
Posts: 3
Re: Between Paul And Jesus, Who Do You Believe
« #21 on: Today at 06:59:33 PM »

The Bible is the word of God. Those who wrote were only scribes. The author is Christ.  Jesus Christ was and is the word thats why He never wrote anything when He was here in human form because He was The Word. What Paul wrote is what God was saying, if you believe the Bible to be the word of God. Why names and personal pronouns by the scribes, only requires revelation to understand it. Go beyond the letters. Without the Holy Spirit in you, you can never understand the Word.

We dont explain the Biible by theology, or seminary education. Its by faith. Believe everything that the Word says and there will be absolutely no contradiction whatsover.The Pharisees because of their education missed Him by a million miles when Isaiah 53 stood in front of them.

Believe from the heart. Its by faith.

When you accept the word, there is no Paul, John, Peter, Moses etc. It becomes the Bible the Word of God.

If you do not accept the Bible to be His word, then thats another story. You can get PHD, DDLDs, QQLLLQQQDs and you will be confused even more.[/Quote]The bold; thats a new twist; The word from God. Scribes wrote them. Then Jesus was the author. How does that work; Jesus in here is not God this time, because God Only spoke and not necessarily the Author who probably asked the scribes to write it down. Write it down they did; in many versions and no two are exactly the same.



Gentlemen: Lets go back to the topic; Jesus and Paul; who is to be believed? This is a question for the ages. Not like Toba's Rock of Ages.

'', How does that work; Jesus in here is not God this time, because God Only spoke and not necessarily the Author who probably asked the scribes to write it down. Write it down they did; in many versions and no two are exactly the same.



The Holy Spirit through the scribes wrote the word. Tell me how did Moses know what happened in the garden of Eden when he wrote Genesis? It only shows it was God. He authored it through the prophets.

IMHO I think those who would want to seperate the Word as Paul's or Jesus' are only trying to find some justification for certain doctrines they want to hold eg women preachers, dress codes, tongues, baptism of the Holy Ghost etc. To a genuine child of God, we read Paul's letters as the WORD OF GOD.

necta o, is it the ramadan or what?

Pastor AIO:

What is the difference between the bible as 'the word of God' and Jesus as the Word (logos)?

The Bible is the word of God written. Jesus is the word of God personified or demonstrated.

Image123:

necta o, is it the ramadan or what?The Bible is the word of God written. Jesus is the word of God personified or demonstrated.

so Jesus and the bible are different aspects of the same thing. Is the bible in the Trinity too?

^
They are two expressions of the same thing, the Word. If you've seen Jesus, you've seen the Word of God and vice versa.
Or if you'd understand it this way, it's the same thing in different formats. Jesus is the Living format, the Word is the letter format.

@Pastoraio; Lo si ibi odu.
Lo boo abi daa ifa.
abi ko lo pofo, abi ogbede.

I tell though, none of them will help you.
Ifa does not have ability to benefit and or hurt.

But stop introducing a sub'text' title; that will be a way out for the christians to get out of this pickle that Joeagbaje got himself and them into.

i am waiting for any single reason that Jesus is to be believed and disbelieve Paul, since neither is on the same part as to many things: Is it really "finished" with Jesus, when Paul set up the real agenda?

Is it really finished with Jesus when Paul gave "laws"neither being the "another comforter" promised by or a known disciple of Jesus?

Is Jesus the end of it all by his Gospel which is missing from the Bible since Paul continues or starts over a new course by his Letters, etc?

I say Paul fits another comforter, if they deny a later human entity with real Proof. Though Paul did not have a single fulfillment of the work of Another Comforter, he is head and shoulders better than "holy spirit" who can't speak to human with audible voice.

@Bro Pee; « #25 on: Today at 06:19:40 AM »
[Quote]'',  How does that work; Jesus in here is not God this time, because God Only spoke and not necessarily the Author who probably asked the scribes to write it down. Write it down they did; in many versions and no two are exactly the same.



The Holy Spirit through the scribes wrote the word. Tell me how did Moses know what happened in the garden of Eden when he wrote Genesis? It only shows it was God. He authored it through the prophets.

IMHO I think those who would want to seperate the Word as Paul's or Jesus'  are only trying to find some justification for certain doctrines they want to hold eg women preachers, dress codes, tongues, baptism of the Holy Ghost etc. To a genuine child of God, we read Paul's letters as the WORD OF GOD[/Quote]You have said it all about what you posted: It is truly your "in my honest or humble opinion" because there is no Biblical truth, you would have presented Verses to back yourself and I am challenging you to quote them now.

Question don answer!

uhmmm?!?!. Wahala dey!

@Image123; « #28 on: Yesterday at 03:16:19 PM »
[Quote]^
They are two expressions of the same thing, the Word. If you've seen Jesus, you've seen the Word of God and vice versa.
Or if you'd understand it this way, it's the same thing in different formats. Jesus is the Living format, the Word is the letter format.[/Quote]The letter format is put together by many people spanning many 1,000s of years before others were inspired to write it in their own way[s] through the spirit, which was spirit from God as another comforter that came as fire on the day of penticost. yet if it were to follow the prophetic statement of Jesus, would he not just stop after the day of penticost when it fulfilled the prophesy, or appeared as a speaking with audible voice what he heard from God?

is Jesus put together by many taking over 1,000s of years to assemble?