Christians must be prepared to answer the typical objections made against the Gospel. Most of the objections are based on simple logical fallacies. The following is a list of some of the most common fallacies used by Muslims.

Note: The average Muslim does not know that his arguments are logically erroneous. He is sincere in his beliefs. Thus you must be patient and kind in sharing with him why his arguments are invalid.

1. The Fallacy of False Assumptions: In logic as well as in law, "historical precedent" means that the burden of proof rests on those who set forth new theories and not on those whose ideas have already been verified. The old tests the new. The already established authority judges any new claims to authority.

Since Islam came along many centuries after Christianity, Islam has the burden of proof and not Christianity. The Bible tests and judges the Qur'an. When the Bible and The Qur'an contradict each other, the Bible must logically be given first place as the older authority. The Qur'an is in error until it proves itself.

Some Muslims violate the principle of historical precedent by asserting that Islam does not have the burden of proof and that the Qur'an judges the Bible.





2. Arguing in a circle: If you have already assumed in your premise what you are going to state in your conclusion, then you have ended where you began and proven nothing.


If you end where you began, you got nowhere.


Examples:
#1 Proving Allah by the Qur'an and then proving the Qur'an by Allah.

#2 Proving Muhammad by the Qur'an and then proving the Qur'an by Muhammad.

#3 Proving Islam by the Qur'an and then proving the Qur'an by Islam.

3. False Analogy: Comparing two things as if they are parallel when they are not really the same at all.

Examples:
#1 Many Muslims erroneously assume that Muslims and Christians share the same concepts of God, revelation, inspiration, textual preservation, the Bible, prophethood, biblical history, conversion, etc,

#2 Because a false analogy is drawn between Islam and Christianity, some Muslims think that any argument which refutes the Qur'an will likewise refute the Bible; any argument which refutes Muhammad will also refute Jesus Christ, etc,

#3 For example, many Muslims claim that Muhammad and all prophets were sinless. They even deny that Abraham was an idol worshipper. Thus when a Christian points out all the wicked things that Muhammad did (mass murder, child abuse, lying, etc.), the Muslims will say, "If you are right, then you must also reject your biblical prophets for doing wicked things as well."

What he is really saying is, "If you reject my prophet, then you must reject your prophets as well. If Muhammad was a false prophet, then your prophets are false as well."

The root problem is that the Muslim concept of prophethood is not the same as the Christian concept of prophethood. We teach that prophets sin like anyone else. Thus while Islam is refuted by the sins of Muhammad, Christianity is not jeopardized at all. The Muslim is guilty of setting up a "false analogy."

Whenever a Muslim responds to a Christian attack on the Qur'an, Muhammad, or Allah by flipping the argument around and applying it to the Bible, Jesus or the Trinity as if Islam and Christianity either stand or fall together, he is guilty of the fallacy of false analogy. Islam can be false and Christianity be true at the same time.






4. The Fallacy of Irrelevance: [/b]When you introduce issues which have no logical bearing on the subject under discussion, you are using irrelevant arguments.

[b]Examples:
#1 Some Muslims argue, "The Qur'an is the Word of God because the text of the Qur'an has been preserved perfectly." This argument is erroneous for two reasons:

a. Factually, the text of the Qur'an has not been preserved perfectly. The text has additions, deletions, conflicting manuscripts, and variant readings like any other ancient writing.

b. Logically, it is irrelevant whether the text of the Qur'an has been preserved because preservation does not logically imply inspiration. A book can be perfectly copied without implying its inspiration.

#2 When Muslims attack the character and motives of anyone who criticizes Islam, they are using irrelevant arguments. The character of someone is no indication of whether he is telling you the truth. Good people can lie and evil people can tell the truth. Thus whenever a Muslim uses slurs such as "mean," "dishonest," "racist," "liar," "deceptive," etc., he is not only committing a logical fallacy but also revealing that he cannot intellectually defend his beliefs.


#3 When confronted with the pagan origins of the Qur'an, some Muslims defend the Qur'an by answering, "So what! Didn't you Christians get Christmas from the pagans?"

This argument is erroneous for several reasons.

a. It is a false analogy to parallel the pagan origins of the rites commanded in the Qur'an with the present day holidays nowhere commanded in the Bible. What some modern day Christians do on Dec. 25th has no logical bearing on what the Qur'an commands Muslims to do (eg. the Pilgrimage, the Fast, etc.).

b. It is irrelevant that some Christians choose to celebrate the birth of Christ. Since the Bible nowhere commands it, it is a matter of personal freedom. But Muslims are commanded in the Qur'an to believe and practice many things which came from the paganism of that day.

c. The Muslim by using this argument is actually admitting that the Qur'an was not "sent down" but fabricated from pagan sources. This means he has become an unbeliever (Surah 25:4-6).


#4 Some Muslims argue that the Qur'an is the Word of God because it contains some historically or scientifically accurate statements. This argument is irrelevant. Just because a book is correct on some historical or scientific point does not mean it is inspired. You cannot take the attributes of a part and apply it to the whole. A book can be a mixture of true and false statements. Thus it is a logical fallacy to argue that the entire Qur'an is true if it makes one true statement.

When a Muslim argues that history or science "proves" the Qur'an, this actually means that he is acknowledging that history and science can likewise refute the Qur'an. If the Qur'an contains just one historical error or one scientific error, then the Qur'an is not the Word of God. Verification and falsification go hand in hand.

#5 The present meaning of a word is irrelevant to what it meant in ancient times. The word "Allah" is a good example. When confronted by the historical evidence that the word was used by pagan Arabs in pre-Islamic times to refer to a high god who was married to the sun-goddess and had three daughters, some Muslims will quote dictionaries, encyclopedias, etc. to prove (sic) that "Allah means God." They are thus using modern definitions to define what the word meant over a thousand years ago! What "Allah" means now has no bearing on what it meant before Muhammad.





5. The Fallacy of Equivocation: If we assume that everyone has the same definition of such words as God, Jesus, revelation, inspiration, prophet, miracle, etc., we are committing a very simple logical fallacy.

#1 When a Muslim says, "Christians and Muslims worship the same God," he is committing the fallacy of equivocation. While Christians worship the Triune God of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, Muslims worship a Unitarian deity. Obviously, they are worshipping different Gods.

#2 When a Muslim says, "We believe in Jesus too," he is committing the fallacy of equivocation. The "Jesus" of the Qur'an is not the Jesus of the Bible. Islam preaches "another Jesus" (II Cor. 11:4). The Jesus of the Bible is God the Son who died on the cross for our sins. But the "Jesus" of the Qur'an is not God the Son and he did not die on the cross for our sins. Thus it is erroneous for Muslims to tell Christians that they believe in Jesus, too.

#3 When a Muslim assumes that Christians have the same concept of revelation as Muslims, he is guilty of the fallacy of equivocation. According to Islam, the Qur'an was written in heaven by Allah and has no earthly sources. When we prove that it comes from earthly sources, this threatens the inspiration of the Qur'an.

On the other hand, the Bible does not claim that it dropped out of heaven one day. It openly quotes from earthly sources. It uses pre-existing sources without any difficulty whatsoever, Thus while the Qur'an is threatened by historical sources, the Bible is actually confirmed by them.

#4 When a Muslims tells you that the word "Allah" has only one meaning: "the one, true, universal God," he is assuming a fallacy. The word "allah" has many different meanings.

a. It can be used as a generic term like the English word "God." Thus it can be applied to any god or goddess regardless if a true or false god is in view. (ex. The "Allahs" of Hinduism.)

b. The Nation of Islam uses it to refer to Wallace Dodd Ford, Elijah Muhammad, and Louis Farrakhan as "Allah" and teaches that all black people are "Allahs."

c. It has been used by some Christians in Arabic speaking countries as a generic name for the Holy Trinity.

d. It was used in pre-Islamic times by pagan Arabs to refer to the moon-god who was the father of al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat.

e. It is used by Muslims to refer to their god.

Islam and Christianity do not worship the same God. The Christian worships the Holy Trinity while the Muslim worships a unitarian deity.






6. The Fallacy of Force: The Qur'an commands Muslims to wage war against non-Muslims and apostates (Surah 5:33; 9:5, 29).

Some Muslims use a false analogy to answer this argument. They respond by saying, "Well, what about the Crusades? You Christians use violence just like Muslims."

It is logically erroneous to set up a parallel between Muslims killing people in obedience to the Qur'an and Christians killing people in disobedience to the Bible. While the Qur'an commands Jihad, the New Testament forbids it.





7. The Fallacy Of Confusing Questions of Fact with Questions of Relevance: Whether something is factually true is totally different from the issue of whether you feel it is relevant. The two issues must be kept separate.

Examples:
#1 When a Christian argues that some of the beliefs and rituals of the Qur'an came from pre-Islamic Arab paganism, the Muslim will deny it at first. But as more and more evidence is given, the Muslim will often do a flip-flop and begin arguing, "So what! Didn't you Christians get Christmas from the pagans?" The Muslim has now committed three fallacies:

a. The "So what!" argument is dealing with the issue of relevance, not fact. You must stop the Muslim at that point and ask him, "Since you are now dealing with the issue of whether the pagan origins of the Qur'an are relevant, does this mean that you are now agreeing to the fact of the pagan origins of Islam?"

b. The Muslim has also committed the fallacy of equivocation, The Bible is not threatened by historical sources. It freely refers to them and even quotes them (Acts 17: 28). But the Qur'an denies that it has any earthly historical sources (Surah 25:4-6).

c. He also committed the fallacy of false analogy. The Bible and the Qur'an are two totally different books. The inspiration of the Bible does not depend upon the fate of the Qur'an because what Muslims claim for the Qur'an is not what Christians claim for the Bible.





8. Phonic Fallacies: The phonetic sound of a word should not be used to twist its meaning. For example,

a. Some Muslims try to prove that the word "Allah" is in the Greek New Testament because of the Greek word alla. But while the word is pronounced "alla," it only means "but" in Greek. It has nothing to do with the Arabic "Allah."

b. Some Muslims have claimed that the word "Allah" is in the Bible because the Biblical word "Allelujah." They then mispronounce the word as "Allah-lujah" But "Allelujah" is not a compound Arabic word with "Allah" being the first part of the word. It is a Hebrew word with the name of God being "JAH" (or Yahweh) and the verb "alle" meaning "praise to." It means "praise to Yahweh." The Arabic word "Allah" is not in the word.

c. The same error is found in the Muslim argument that the word "Baca" (Psa. 94:6) really means "Mecca." The valley of Baca is in northern Israel.

d. Some Muslims have tried to go from "Amen" to "Ahmed" to "Mohammed!" Such nonsense is beyond belief.






9. "Red Herring" Arguments: When a Muslim is asked to defend the Qur'an, if he turns around and attacks the reliability of the Bible, the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the Crusades, etc., he is introducing irrelevant issues that have no logical bearing on the truthfulness of Islam. He is trying to divert attention from Islam to other issues.

Furthermore, he is assuming that if he can refute the Bible, then the Qur'an wins by default. If he can refute the Trinity, then Allah wins by default. But this is logically erroneous. You cannot prove your position by refuting someone else's position. The Bible and the Qur'an could both be wrong. Muslims must prove their own book.





10. Straw Man Arguments: When you put a false argument into the mouth of your opponent and then proceed to knock it down, you have only created a "straw man" argument, Muslims sometimes either misunderstand or deliberately misquote the arguments Christians give them.
Example:
Some Muslims have built a "straw man" argument that claims that we teach, "The Qur'an teaches that Allah is the Moon-god and that Muslims knowingly believe in and worship the Moon-god and his daughters." They then knock down this "straw man" argument and claim victory. Of course, we never said such nonsense. What we have said is that while the Qur'an claims that Allah is God and Muslims think they are worshipping the one true God, in reality they are worshipping a false god preached by a false prophet according to a false book.





Conclusion

The average Muslim has been deceived by Muslim apologists who use such logical fallacies without regard to reason, fact or honesty. But there are many Muslims who want to be rational in their religion and thus have an open mind to rational discourse. Once they see that their arguments are based on logical fallacies, they will be open to the wonderful news that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who died for our sins on the cross.

i think dis has shown d kind of muslim u argue with- illiterate.
y must u pple always try 2 compare belief & generalise

@Itstrue; you are in for a shock. watch.

[Quote]1. The Fallacy of False Assumptions: In logic as well as in law, "historical precedent" means that the burden of proof rests on those who set forth new theories and not on those whose ideas have already been verified. The old tests the new. The already established authority judges any new claims to authority.

Since Islam came along many centuries after Christianity, Islam has the burden of proof and not Christianity. The Bible tests and judges the Qur'an. When the Bible and The Qur'an contradict each other, the Bible must logically be given first place as the older authority. The Qur'an is in error until it proves itself.

Some Muslims violate the principle of historical precedent by asserting that Islam does not have the burden of proof and that the Qur'an judges the Bible.[/Quote]truth however young must be given priority; example the earth is round like a spherical is young, while the earth is flat is older, well established, tested locally but in reality is false.

truth must be given priority if is old; except that the bible lies about who is the 'only son' of Abraham, a position that is always for 1st son. who was attempted to be sacrificed except the one who was the covenant child, participating in the covenant? read your bible and reflect on the story of sending Ishmael away. you know he was 13 years older and was not sent away until little boy isaac was born. can a 100 year old man carry the now at least 13 years old young man on his shoulders for such a distant?

truth young or old must be given priority over lies; the children of israel knew God to be 1. Christians in their dilution say God is a trinity. islam came correct and say judaism may be bad but in this case she is correct; God is truly 1.

[Quote]2. Arguing in a circle: If you have already assumed in your premise what you are going to state in your conclusion, then you have ended where you began and proven nothing.

If you end where you began, you got nowhere.[/Quote]so argue yourself out of trinity and the bible. i am sure there a failed explanation how Yahweh is 3 person not persons because He said lets make man in our own image in our own likeness [both singular]. who told you what Yahweh said? and to whom, while the Queen of england can use we for herself and she is just 1 person?

you will tell us how the bible is the perfect complete word of Yahweh, yet it changes, always.



[Quote]Examples:
#1 Proving Allah by the Qur'an and then proving the Qur'an by Allah.[/Quote]when Jesus of the Bible said Ellah, where is Yahweh or Jehovah in that sound?



[Quote]#2 Proving Muhammad by the Qur'an and then proving the Qur'an by Muhammad.[/Quote]how about Muhammad [as] as the another comforter if Paul was not? before you respond, because i dont want the whole world to shake their heads at you, read the descriptions and the duties of the another comforter. how about the another comforter being that prophet that they ask John son of Zacharias and Jesus about?



[Quote]#3 Proving Islam by the Qur'an and then proving the Qur'an by Islam.[/Quote]how about God will take the honor from your hands you these evil Jews and give it to a people that will worship Him, not them [gods]?



[Quote]3. False Analogy: Comparing two things as if they are parallel when they are not really the same at all.[/Quote]we know about your ever changing Bibles and gods.



[Quote]Examples:
#1 Many Muslims erroneously assume that Muslims and Christians share the same concepts of God, revelation, inspiration, textual preservation, the Bible, prophethood, biblical history, conversion, etc,[/Quote]were there more than 1 man who left ur in ancient iraq to a place other than Ibrahim who you call abraham?



[Quote]#2 Because a false analogy is drawn between Islam and Christianity, some Muslims think that any argument which refutes the Qur'an will likewise refute the Bible; any argument which refutes Muhammad will also refute Jesus Christ, etc,[/Quote]we know Jesus by you was part time god and part time prophet.



[Quote]#3 For example, many Muslims claim that Muhammad and all prophets were sinless. They even deny that Abraham was an idol worshipper. Thus when a Christian points out all the wicked things that Muhammad did (mass murder, child abuse, lying, etc.), the Muslims will say, "If you are right, then you must also reject your biblical prophets for doing wicked things as well."[/Quote]any muslim who says that to you is asking you to open your eyes. Jesus is not sinless according to the Bibles; he said a person wi go to hell fire if he calls another person a fool. Jesus later called a person fool. Jesus of the bible indict himself.



[Quote]What he is really saying is, "If you reject my prophet, then you must reject your prophets as well. If Muhammad was a false prophet, then your prophets are false as well."[/Quote]your bible gave the test for a real prophet and it is not about fighting to defend his community or not being a turn the other cheek man. it says if he says things and they come to pass. and if a prophet says Jesus is the messiah in the future, after Jesus had left the earth, he is a prophet of God.



[Quote]The root problem is that the Muslim concept of prophethood is not the same as the Christian concept of prophethood. We teach that prophets sin like anyone else. Thus while Islam is refuted by the sins of Muhammad, Christianity is not jeopardized at all. The Muslim is guilty of setting up a "false analogy."[/Quote]and Jesus was a prophet sent. this statement supports my opinion, above, when i look into your bibles.



[Quote]Whenever a Muslim responds to a Christian attack on the Qur'an, Muhammad, or Allah by flipping the argument around and applying it to the Bible, Jesus or the Trinity as if Islam and Christianity either stand or fall together, he is guilty of the fallacy of false analogy. Islam can be false and Christianity be true at the same time.[/Quote]if you say my bottled water is not suitable to drink, but you offered me water with some brownish muddy color with a pungent smell instead, i will be a fool to accept it. this what we have of the bible; brownish muddy and bad smelly water. taste the bottle water first and stop talking ignorance.

[Quote]4. The Fallacy of Irrelevance: When you introduce issues which have no logical bearing on the subject under discussion, you are using irrelevant arguments.

Examples:
#1 Some Muslims argue, "The Qur'an is the Word of God because the text of the Qur'an has been preserved perfectly." This argument is erroneous for two reasons:

a. Factually, the text of the Qur'an has not been preserved perfectly. The text has additions, deletions, conflicting manuscripts, and variant readings like any other ancient writing.[/Quote]if this is to discredit the Quran, it on hand backfires on the Bible, being that it is part of the ancient writing, so the Bible is not word of God the christian writer says. But Quran was written down by scribes who were companions of the messenger [as] under his authority, immediately he received any revelation. there were 5 scribes, writing at the same time, and the muslims know them by names, full names. so we have 5 complete copies, in addition to bits and pieces others write down to be memorized. in addition of the fact that that is a command that people should learn it and commit it to hearts. did i remember to say it is the foundation of the daily salah, also used for the activities of the community, in times of celebration and even in sorrow. is Quran even in the varied accents possible to be with any error? no.

if an egyptian says 'yawmi haggi akbar' people know that his haggi was hajji. if an indian recites as says va lamuu, people know that his va is wa. if a fulani says seun we know that he means sheun.



[Quote]b. Logically, it is irrelevant whether the text of the Qur'an has been preserved because preservation does not logically imply inspiration. A book can be perfectly copied without implying its inspiration.[/Quote]a book that an illiterate claims that he was inspired to speak out the words of its pages, which is the Quran is definitely head and shoulders better in the context of its being a book ordained by God because its purpose is clearly defined [ God is One, worship Him and no one else, etc], than the Bible that is definitely revealed to any prophet or prophets, but ordinary people the bible writers claimed without any prophetic office that the were inspired to write what were revealed to prophets before. pay attention, itistrue.



[Quote]#2 When Muslims attack the character and motives of anyone who criticizes Islam, they are using irrelevant arguments. The character of someone is no indication of whether he is telling you the truth. Good people can lie and evil people can tell the truth. Thus whenever a Muslim uses slurs such as "mean," "dishonest," "racist," "liar," "deceptive," etc., he is not only committing a logical fallacy but also revealing that he cannot intellectually defend his beliefs.[/Quote]since you say Muhammad was not your ideal man, why can't you then say he may be telling the truth, however? you are angry because he destroyed your idolatry; Trinity.



[Quote]#3 When confronted with the pagan origins of the Qur'an, some Muslims defend the Qur'an by answering, "So what! Didn't you Christians get Christmas from the pagans?"[/Quote]i dont know what you mean by pagan origin, but i will like to see examples. but worshiping or slicing 1 God into 3 gods is noting different from the hindu religion.



[Quote]This argument is erroneous for several reasons.

a. It is a false analogy to parallel the pagan origins of the rites commanded in the Qur'an with the present day holidays nowhere commanded in the Bible. What some modern day Christians do on Dec. 25th has no logical bearing on what the Qur'an commands Muslims to do (eg. the Pilgrimage, the Fast, etc.).[/Quote]the children of Israel observed hajj to Makka and stop when arabs stock up Kaaba with their idols. Moses, Jesus fasted. this was long before Muhammad [as] were Moses and Jesus pagans and the children of Israel were pagans when they used to come to hajj in Makka before the idols were introduced by pagans? i see that the writer has no real knowledge of the things done by believers; Noah, Abraham, Moses, etc, Jesus. these were muslims. islam didn't begin on Muhammad[as] but completed as a full process that is perfect on him.



[Quote]b. It is irrelevant that some Christians choose to celebrate the birth of Christ. Since the Bible nowhere commands it, it is a matter of personal freedom. But Muslims are commanded in the Qur'an to believe and practice many things which came from the paganism of that day.[/Quote]i have stated that fasting and hajj had roots deeper than what the pagans of the day used to do. present some thing else, or prove me wrong.



[Quote]c. The Muslim by using this argument is actually admitting that the Qur'an was not "sent down" but fabricated from pagan sources. This means he has become an unbeliever (Surah 25:4-6).[/Quote]i wonder if this guy is not just talking without realizing how empty his thoughts are?

ITISTRUE:

8. Phonic Fallacies: The phonetic sound of a word should not be used to twist its meaning. For example,

a. Some Muslims try to prove that the word "Allah" is in the Greek New Testament because of the Greek word alla. But while the word is pronounced "alla," it only means "but" in Greek. It has nothing to do with the Arabic "Allah."

b. Some Muslims have claimed that the word "Allah" is in the Bible because the Biblical word "Allelujah." They then mispronounce the word as "Allah-lujah" But "Allelujah" is not a compound Arabic word with "Allah" being the first part of the word. It is a Hebrew word with the name of God being "JAH" (or Yahweh) and the verb "alle" meaning "praise to." It means "praise to Yahweh." The Arabic word "Allah" is not in the word.

c. The same error is found in the Muslim argument that the word "Baca" (Psa. 94:6) really means "Mecca." The valley of Baca is in northern Israel.

d.[size=14pt] Some Muslims have tried to go from "Amen" to "Ahmed" to "Mohammed!" Such nonsense is beyond belief[/size].

ITISTRUE:

9. "Red Herring" Arguments: When a Muslim is asked to defend the Qur'an, if he turns around and attacks the reliability of the Bible, the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the Crusades, etc., he is introducing irrelevant issues that have no logical bearing on the truthfulness of Islam. He is trying to divert attention from Islam to other issues.

Furthermore, he is assuming that if he can refute the Bible, then the Qur'an wins by default. If he can refute the Trinity, then Allah wins by default. But this is logically erroneous. You cannot prove your position by refuting someone else's position. The Bible and the Qur'an could both be wrong. Muslims must prove their own book.

Sweetnecta right there.

Sweetnecta:

if this is to discredit the Quran, it on hand backfires on the Bible, being that it is part of the ancient writing, so the Bible is not word of God the christian writer says. But Quran was written down by scribes who were companions of the messenger [as] under his authority, immediately he received any revelation. there were 5 scribes, writing at the same time, and the muslims know them by names, full names. so we have 5 complete copies, in addition to bits and pieces others write down to be memorized. in addition of the fact that that is a command that people should learn it and commit it to hearts. did i remember to say it is the foundation of the daily salah, also used for the activities of the community, in times of celebration and even in sorrow. is Quran even in the varied accents possible to be with any error? no.

Fallacy of false analogy. Right there in the list . . . we didnt even need to look any further.

I hope somebody teach you yoruba because Oun to Jo oun lafi nwe Oun.

If a book claims to be a revealed guidance, dont you compare it to another which says it, too is revealed for guidance?

When you put them side by side, you will find out which one is truly revealed for guidance. Should I compare the Bible to Buddhist handbook?

Allah is not a physically represented Deity.

Yahweh of the Jews is not a physically represented Deity.

Yahweh of the Christian is a physically represented Deity [or deity].

Which Yahweh is real? What are we talking about here?

Where is the false analogy there in what I wrote that you are beaming ear to ear on?

Sweetnecta:

I hope somebody teach you yoruba because Oun to Jo oun lafi nwe Oun.

If a book claims to be a revealed guidance, dont you compare it to another which says it, too is revealed for guidance?

When you put them side by side, you will find out which one is truly revealed for guidance. Should I compare the Bible to Buddhist handbook?

Allah is not a physically represented Deity.

Yahweh of the Jews is not a physically represented Deity.

Yahweh of the Christian is a physically represented Deity [or deity].

Which Yahweh is real? What are we talking about here?

Where is the false analogy there in what I wrote that you are beaming ear to ear on?

Fallacy of equivocation followed by a strawman argument.

Examples - since the quran makes the wild, unproven claim that it is "revealed by guidance" then automatically it has to be judged on the same level as the bible which muslims acknowledge is written by men by the inspiration of God.

One word - nonsense.

Example 2: Since allah (by false islamic claim) is not a physically represented deity, he must be the same as the Jewish Yahweh who was also not seen.

One word again - nonsense.

Sango isnt seen either, is he the same as allah?

@Sweetnecta

When you put them side by side, you will find out which one is truly revealed for guidance. Should I compare the Bible to Buddhist handbook?

Sorry I think you made a mistake, you meant to say :


Should I compare the Koran to Buddhist handbook?

Btw, Islam and Buddhism have a lot in common, don't believe me ? do some research with Google.

your's sincerely.

FROSBEL.

ITISTRUE:


d. [size=18pt]Some Muslims have tried to go from "Amen" to "Ahmed" to "Mohammed!" Such nonsense is beyond belief[/size].

I laugh tire so tey I wan die for here. . . . . .What baffles me the most is that Muslims truly believe that Jesus and all the prophets the bible talks about were Muslims. How deluded can one be?. . . .These guys are really crazy. . . . .

frosbel:

@Sweetnecta


Sorry I think you made a mistake, you meant to say :


Should I compare the Koran to Buddhist handbook?

Btw, Islam and Buddhism have a lot in common, don't believe me ? do some research with Google.

your's sincerely.

FROSBEL.

LOL, big mouth ignorants!

why not tell us that islam was revealed by aliens? haven't you ever dreamt of that?

when one reads the topic of this thread,one would expect it to tell us where in islamic beliefs or in the Holy Quran you can find "fallacies".one would expect the OP to list them.all i see is making allegations and attributing certain concepts to islam (as they can also be attributed to christianity and any other religion rightly or wrongly) and then interpreting them falsely as usual and then spreading lies and imaginations.

^^^^

Is the Koran a miracle ?? I personally think not.


Is a book which has been so haphazardly written, with so many contradictions , such that Muhammad and his scribes introduced abrogation to make up for the chaos therein.


Give me a break.

War of Gods lol (Quranic and Biblical gods at it)

More people have died in the name of this gods

frosbel:

^^^^

Is the Koran a miracle ?? I personally think not.
Is a book which has been so haphazardly written, with so many contradictions , such that Muhammad and his scribes introduced abrogation to make up for the chaos therein.
Give me a break.

Is the Bible a miracle ?? I personally think not.
Is a book which has been so haphazardly written, with so many contradictions , such that Jesus and his scribes introduced abrogation to make up for the chaos therein.
Give me a break.

frosbel:

^^^^

Is the Koran a miracle ?? I personally think not.


Is a book which has been so haphazardly written, with so many contradictions , such that Muhammad and his scribes introduced abrogation to make up for the chaos therein.


Give me a break.

when you accuse a holy book revered by billions of people,you should be able to back up your allegation with evidence for people to examine it.you dont just throw words and twist facts.do like what i have done below:

The sins of the father
ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Who is the father of Joseph?
MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

Which was first--beasts or man?
GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

The Righteous live?
PSA 92:12: "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree."
ISA 57:1: "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart."

Jesus' first sermon-on the plain or mount?
MAT 5:1,2: "And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying, "

LUK 6:17,20: "And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people, came to hear him, And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples and said, "


Who Moved David to anger?
II SAMUEL 24: And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
I CHRONICLES 21: And SATAN stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

Does God Tempts or Not?
"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham." (GEN 22:1)
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." (JAS 1:13)

How Did Judas die?
"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (MAT 27:5)
"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (ACT 1:18)

Does every man sin?
ECC 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

JO1 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Who bears guilt?
GAL 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
GAL 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.

Do you answer a fool?
PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.


Did those with Saul/Paul at his conversion hear a voice?
ACT 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
ACT 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.

@LagosShia

when you accuse a holy book revered by billions of people,you should be able to back up your allegation with evidence for people to examine it.you dont just throw words and twist facts.do like what i have done below:

The Quran is not a miracle by any stretch of the imagination.

Read the biography of Muhammad and you will be shocked, following a blind man to the same place of doom.

"so ignore them. They are blind guides leading the blind, and if one blind person guides another, they will both fall into a ditch." - Matthew 15:14

frosbel:

@LagosShia


The Quran is not a miracle by any stretch of the imagination.

Read the biography of Muhammad and you will be shocked, following a blind man to the same place of doom.

"so ignore them. They are blind guides leading the blind, and if one blind person guides another, they will both fall into a ditch." - Matthew 15:14

you can eagerly accept the biography of Muhammad (sa) written by any tom,Joystick and harry but you are so blind to reason or even read the Quran and examine it because you believe it was written by a man.you are able to accept the bible of different books written by different men at different times and in different places and full of contradictions and errors,but you reject the Quran.you also make up lies,twist Quranic verses (like the one you like misquoting,changing "Allah plans" to "Allah schemes" as christians do best with their bible which they keep editing,all just to attack muslims.

soon you'd be ignored.then you'd talking and discussing with yourself all alone.then you'd finally go wild and mad and start pulling your hair and biting your teeth.trust me!

^^



The QURAN is FALSE, Jesus is LORD.


If you think you will get into Heaven with lying, lusting, adultery and fornication, hatred, murder and anger, you must be a BIG JOKER.

No filthy person will ever be admitted into God's pretense without a total freedom from SIN which is ONLY achievable by the precious BLOOD of CHRIST JESUS.

Repent of your sins and be saved, keep living in your sin and using ISLAM as a cover and you will Perish !!!!

Read John 3 in the bible, it may help you.

frosbel:

^^



The QURAN is FALSE, Jesus is LORD.


If you think you will get into Heaven with lying, lusting, adultery and fornication, hatred, murder and anger, you must be a BIG JOKER.

No filthy person will ever be admitted into God's pretense without a total freedom from SIN which is ONLY achievable by the precious BLOOD of CHRIST JESUS.

Repent of your sins and be saved, keep living in your sin and using ISLAM as a cover and you will Perish !!!!

Read John 3 in the bible, it may help you.

christian societies happen to be the worse hit when it comes to immorality and sin.you can compare statistics.the so called "blood of Jesus" is just a camouflage to tell christians they can continue to sin and be free as long as they believe in "blood".are you vampires?what righteousness is your god that treasures blood more than good conduct and morality?

all the evils in the world are perpetrated under the cloak of christianity starting with alcoholism.the ungodly christian even think Jesus drank alcohol and committed shayo.God will take care you for all the lies and insults!

^^^^^

Of course all based on your definition of the word Christian.

For example if a Muslim comes to me and says he does not believe in Jihad , in marrying 4 wives, in lying to the infidels and sometime his own family , in killing for allah, I will say he is not a TRUE MUSLIM.

In a similar way, if a Christian comes to me and says he has 4 wives and has girl friends, swears, drinks excessive wine, lies , kills, I will say he is not a TRUE CHRISTIAN.

Can you see the difference!!!!


By the way in reference to alcohol, tell me, why are you forbidden to drink  alcohol on earth but  in Heaven there will be not pints, but rivers of wine  So in other words paradise will be full of drunks having Sin Parties ( permit my language ) with 72 virgins.


Truly sickening.

"For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do--living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, SinParties, carousing and detestable idolatry." - 1 Peter 4:3


"and envy; drunkenness, SinParties, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God." - Galatians 5:21

"Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in SinParties and drunkenness, not in intimate immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy." - Romans
13:13


The same things the bible forbids is exactly what the ISLAM Paradise will be practicing,.


Shocking !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Repent now, while there is time, and as my fellow brother in Christ, advised, EDUCATE yourselves, stop following a religion BLINDLY.

@the above mumu

if sinlessness is the criteria to know who is christian and who is not,then i'm afraid but to say there is no true christian on the face of the planet and you are only the only self-righetous and sinless christian.all other christians are fake.

^^^

Oh you have not seen any , not a surprise then .


But I have seen many Muslim hypocrites, drunks, womanizers, haters and jihadists, yes I have seen many of them and from time to time do engage them in discussion.

They behave just like you, never willing to be educated but blindly following a womanizer of a prophet.

@the above mumu,

you're just another self-righteous fanatic and pretender christian missionary.if one digs deep,he would find out that you are one of the most disgusting human beings on earth.let me give you an example of your like:Jimmy Swaggart.he was a popular evangelist and a holy ghost fire possessed fanatic like you.he held many debates with Sheikh Ahmad Deedat.the videos can be found on youtube.Swaggart ended up caught with pros.titutes.he later "confessed" and asked for forgiveness.thereafter,the power of ghost possession and obessession was not strong enough to wipe out his lust and apetite for pros.titute.he again was caught with ashewos:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Swaggart#Swaggart.27s_confession_and_fallout

Jimmy Swagart fell from grace , was judged and punished and disgraced , then repented.

Muhammad never knew grace to start with, his crazy ways were never judged by his followers , he never repented as far as history states of his sins, so guess where he is ??


The bible never covers up peoples sins, it reveals both the failures and successes , the defeats and victories of human beings.

However the Koran is one huge alibi of coverups and misinformation.



To repeat my last question though, which you have not answered , see below :


For example if a Muslim comes to me and says he does not believe in Jihad , in marrying 4 wives, in lying to the infidels and sometime his own family , in killing for allah, I will say he is not a TRUE MUSLIM.

In a similar way, if a Christian comes to me and says he has 4 wives and has girl friends, swears, drinks excessive wine, lies , kills, I will say he is not a TRUE CHRISTIAN.

frosbel:


To repeat my last question though, which you have not answered , see below :


For example if a Muslim comes to me and says he does not believe in Jihad , in marrying 4 wives, in lying to the infidels and sometime his own family , in killing for allah, I will say he is not a TRUE MUSLIM.

In a similar way, if a Christian comes to me and says he has 4 wives and has girl friends, swears, drinks excessive wine, lies , kills, I will say he is not a TRUE CHRISTIAN.

Christians and dishonesty!

Jihad is islamic when necessary and in defense only.
marrying four wives is not obligatory upon muslim men.i can only marry one.
Muslims dont lie.you are implying dishonestly that if one does not lie,he is not muslim.you are so dishonest that you want to pass lying for an islamic belief.
muslims do not "kill for Allah".

aside from jihad which is not even a fundamental belief,but secondary,all the beliefs you stated if practice by a muslims,makes his faith questionable.

Muhammad hardly had any
original story at all. He picked
from any suitable sources, in
many cases from religious
legends he believed were stories
from the Bible, and also from
ordinary local fairy tales and
legends, and twisted them a little
or much to make them fit his
new religion. Not for nothing did
his opponents claim that he "just
told old tales". (Neither did he
have many original thoughts or
ideas - nearly without exception
they were picked or borrowed
from surrounding cultures and
mixed with the old Arab war and
robbery culture.) Below you find
some samples.
*00a 18/9: “Or dost thou reflect
that the Companions of the Cave -
- -”. This is an old tale - a
religious legend - that is
incorporated in the Quran. The
story of the 7 sleepers is well
known - and is just a fairy tale.
The 7 were Christians from
Ephesus in what is now Turkey,
that fled to a cave during a
pogrom under “Cesar” Decius the
story goes. Decius had the cave
walled up to kill them. Instead
the 7 fell asleep, and did not
wake up until in the 30.th year of
the reign of the pious
Theodosius - that is in 448 AD.
Decius reined for just over two
years around/just after 250 AD.
That means that if the fairy tale
had been true, they had slept
some 195 years (the Quran says
300 or 309 years - even in the
fairy tale it is wrong). Islam has
troubles explaining how this
story ended in the Quran, and
the “explanations” we have seen,
are very “lofty” and diffuse - f. ex
that it really is told about an older
Jewish fairy tale (does an
omniscient god need to rely on
old fairy tales?) - or that it derives
from misunderstandings about
the Esseers (does an omniscient
god misunderstand things?) - the
members of the Qumran society
(near the Dead Sea) but without
giving any sources or
documentation - only
speculations. Besides the age
does not matter – it is as made
up even if it should happen that
the original is a bit older. They
also tell it is an allegory - which
they very often do when they
have difficulties finding
“explanations” that are possible
to believe. But it obviously is not
meant to be an allegory - among
other things the meanings of an
allegory normally are very easy to
see or are explained. The Quran
further normally tells when it is
telling an allegory or something
similar, and not least; the Quran
itself stresses that it shall be
understood literally if nothing
else is said. The sleepers also
mentioned in 18/13 – 18/22 –
18/25.
001 105/3+4: “- - - Han (Allah*)
sent against them Flights of
Birds, Striking them with stones
of baked clay.” This refers to an
attack from Abyssinia in 570 AD
(though modern science
question if the year is quite
correct). The vice king Abrhah or
Abrah, lost much of his army
because of a virulent illness -
perhaps smallpox - and had to
return home without attacking
Mecca. The troops were NOT
killed by stones from birds.
(Muslims sometimes try to
“explain” the clear text and the
as clear mistake away by some
linguistic gymnastics that
includes that the Arab word for
stone and the one for writings
are not dissimilar, and they think
that these words have been
mixed up (in a holy book sent
down by Allah, and without
mistakes - how many more
mixing ups?), and then say the
meaning is metaphorical (in a
book the Allah says shall be
understood as it is written), it
may not mean stones, but hard
physical strikes - but also hard
physical strikes is not the same
as illness. Muslims frequently
have too use far out
“explanations” like this to try to
camouflage mistakes. But if
there is a linguistic mistake
here, according to Muslims –
how many more linguistic
mistakes are there in the
Quran?
00b 5/23: “- - - two (of Moses’
Jews*) on whom Allah hath - - -“.
Allah or Yahweh? See also 3/51.
*002 37/142: “Then the big fish
swallowed him (Jonah*)”. Wrong.
1. There exists no fish big enough
to swallow a man whole. There is
one exception, but that one does
not eat large prey (the whale-
shark). Besides there may be one
or two of the whales, but even
the orca does not swallow a seal
(reasonably similar size) in one
piece.
2. Even if he had been swallowed,
he had not survived - he had
died in minutes from lack of
oxygen.
3. And had he had a supply of
oxygen - which he obviously did
not - the acid juices in the
stomach of the “fish” had killed
him in a short time.
A fairy tale, even if this story is
“borrowed” from the Bible.
(There are some mistakes also in
the Bible). About Jonah also in
37/44 among other places.
00c 2/73: “Allah said: ‘Strike the
(body) with a piece of the
(heifer)’. Thus Allah bringet the
dead to life - - -“. It is not
possible to wake up a dead this
way. Islam will have to produce a
solid proof – especially as this
story is not in the Bible, and thus
is taken from a legend or
something.
003 2/102: “- - - the buyers of
(magic) - - -“. Magic is just
superstition.
004 5/110: “And behold, thou
makest out of clay, as it were, the
figure of a bird, by My leave, and
you brethest into it and it
becometh a bird by My leave, - - -
“. A made up story form the
made up legends in the made up
(apocryphal) Thomas Child
Gospel. See also 3/49 -
Muhammad often repeats
himself, even if that makes no
good literature. Besides: A
wonder like this had not been
forgotten in the Bible - and
especially not by “wrongdoers”
wanting to falsify the Bible to
make Jesus more holy, like the
Quran frequently says/indicates.
(But how to make Jews agree to
falsifications making Jesus more
holy? - falsifications in those two
religions had to be identical, if
not the Jewish scriptures and the
Christian OT would today have
been quite different from each
others.)
005 35/44: “Do they (people*)
not travel through the earth, and
see what was the End of those
before them - - -?” In and around
Arabia there were (and are) ruins
here and there. Muhammad
claimed – as normal without any
documentation as only non-
Muslims need to prove anything
– that each and every one of
them were results of Allah’s
anger because of disbelief etc. in
Islam. Wrong. In a dry and harsh
land inhabited by warring tribes
there were plenty of other
reasons for empty houses and
ruins.
006 27/39: “- - - (one) of the
Jinns - - -”. Jinns are beings with
a diffuse role in the Quran. They
are “borrowed” from old Arab
fairy tales and legends and
pagan religion. Allah made them
from fire, the book tells – though
one place it is said they are made
from the fire of a scotching wind.
There is said little about their
shape - perhaps roughly like
humans, but also perhaps with
different shapes as the word
may represent different kinds of
beings. They also have a diffuse
role in the “pantheon” - they
definitely do not belong in the
heaven, but neither in hell. There
simply is said nothing about
where they belong. Neither is
anything said about their role in
the “life” of heaven and hell or
their real connection to the
“inhabitants” those two places -
or to earthlings. As we said;
much is diffuse concerning them
and their life, except that they
must be beings that can die - and
end in hell mostly it seems, even
though the Quran tells they could
react positively to Islam. As said
they are borrowed from old Arab
folklore, fairy tales, and the old
pagan religion, and mostly seem
not really to belong in the
religion of Islam, though they are
mentioned quite frequently.
Generally we feel they are a little
suspect most of the time, but not
always. Some were f. ex. servants
(or slaves) for King Solomon, and
in the older times - not 100 years
ago - there shall have existed
laws for marriage etc. between
humans and Jinns, though no
marriage ever took place!!
Do they really exist in the hidden
world? - or are they in reality just
something from fairy tales used
for the mysterious effect?
Besides: If they are real and if
Islam is the original, age-old
religion – why do we not find at
least traces from them in other
religions? (The word sometimes
is translated with "bad spirits"
and bad spitits you find in many
religions, but this translation is
not exact.)
00d 55/15: “And He (Allah*)
created Jinns from fire free of
smoke.” Jinns are beings from
old Arab folklore, fairy tales and
legends relating to the old Arab
pagan religion. Is it just by co-
incidence that these beings in
Allah’s world – that according to
the Quran are real beings –
before only were known to the
Pagan Arabs and not to any
others, not even to the real (?)
prophets in the Bible? In a
religion for all the world and
made by a god for the entire
world, they never manifested
themselves any other place in the
entire world than just in that
area. What a lucky coincident that
Allah finally choose just an Arab –
Muhammad – for a messenger,
so that he could tell the rest of
the world what part the jinns
play in the real religion. But it
also is strange that except for
things borrowed from the Bible
and a little from other
neighbouring religions, there is
nothing about or from the rest of
the world in the Quran – and the
Quran has no stuff from those
parts of the world, even though
Allah is for all the world, and
there have been prophets all
over and to all times, according
to that book. Also see 27/39
above.

Wrong inference surely attracts false conclusion.