I really want to know why many christians in the house believe that Joagbaje is a fraud. If there is one thing he is good at and does very well is supporting almost everything he says with passages from the bible. . . . .He believes as a Christian you are supposed to prosper in all you do. . . .Is prosperity wrong according to the Christian doctrine? If yes why are verses like
Psalm 23
1 The LORD is my shepherd, I lack nothing.
2 He makes me lie down in green pastures,
he leads me beside quiet waters,
3 he refreshes my soul.

Psalm 121:7-8 says, "The Lord will keep you from all harm - He will watch over your life; the Lord will watch over your coming and going, both now and forevermore.

Deuteronomy 28:13 The LORD will make you the head, not the tail. If you pay attention to the commands of the LORD your God that I give you this day and carefully follow them, you will always be at the top, never at the bottom.

Philippians 4:19 "And my God will supply all your needs according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus.

There are many other verses like that. . . . Why are such verses in the bible?. . . .Is there any verse in the bible that states the believers will experience lack, injustice, diseases, suffering and poverty?. . . . . .

Whether they believe that pastor joagbaje iş a fraud or not i got a $100 dollar bet saying that he is going to win the religious nairaland poster of the year awards 2011.

Jo's got a thread hee haa

manmustwac:

Whether they believe that pastor joagbaje iş a fraud or not i got a $100 dollar bet saying that he is going to win the religious nairaland poster of the year awards 2011.

I don't want to win religious poster of the year.  A beg .  I would love to be a moderator. I promise to bring and enforce order . I will enforce the rules of the forum  .  I will press for a christian section . Please vote me a moderator and Nairaland will not be a place for agberos.

Agberos
Sounds like some one I know

Joagbaje:

I don't want to win religious poster of the year. A beg . I would love to be a moderator. I promise to bring and enforce order . I will enforce the rules of the forum . I will press for a christian section . Please vote me a moderator and Nairaland will not be a place for agberos.

serious!?!

@joagbaje
Use you as moderator ke? That would be the day you are too dishonest and biased to be considered for such. That would surely be the end of NL religious section.

Leave the vote campaigns aside for now. Two important questons that mazaje asked should be considered by those he is inviting to comment on -

mazaje:
He believes as a Christian you are supposed to prosper in all you do. . . .Is prosperity wrong according to the Christian doctrine?

mazaje:

Is there any verse in the bible that states the believers will experience lack, injustice, diseases, suffering and poverty?. . . . . .

Joagbaje:

I don't want to win religious poster of the year.  A beg .  I would love to be a moderator. I promise to bring and enforce order . I will enforce the rules of the forum  .  I will press for a christian section . Please vote me a moderator and Nairaland will not be a place for agberos.

Jo as moderator i dey fear oh i hope you will not attempt to enforce offering as well

@ topic

some nlers, not christians in general.

I'm indifferent for the most part and we hardly interact anyway.

My opinion is nobody should feel under compulsion to give but at the same time a closed fist benefits nobody.

God loves a cheerful giver -key word here is cheerful. If your giving has an ulterior motive or is making you have headaches, then you need to take time out and reassess the situation.

Just my opinion though.

wordtalk:

Leave the vote campaigns aside for now. Two important questons that mazaje asked should be considered by those he is inviting to comment on -

Non of them wants to touch it. . .Pastor Kun is a regular and vehement critic of Joagbaje. . . .I wonder why him and other critics of Joagbaje are not saying anything meaningful with verses from the bible to support their arguments. . . Again the questions are these. . .

1. Is prosperity wrong according to the Christian doctrine?
2. Is there any verse in the bible that states the believers will experience lack, injustice, diseases, suffering and poverty?

The life of Christ Himself! The life of HiS Apostles - they show lack, deprivation, pain etc. And Christ asks us "if the servant can be greater than the master"!

Why do we not have a single Apostle who lived a life of wealth? Why do we not have a single one who found his succour in the sweat of others? Why did these people walk in power but that "spiritually"? Some people here are quite wealthy BUT have come to understand that you cannot take from the poor for the rich - that is a travesty of reasoning. And that is what most have against Jo!

Mazaje has said Jo backs up his tricks with biblical quotes. PLEASE humor me and study satan tempting Christ on Olives - did he quote from the Koran? Or perharps you believe his understanding came from the 256 oracle in Ifa? Dude had something to gain FOR HIMSELF! Truth temains that there is only ONE way to divide truth - motive!

What does Jo stand to gain from tithes, first-fruits, prophet offerings, offer 7 etc AS a pastor? A great deal of cash ehn?

What do I stand to gain from saying the Christian life is about freewill giving and not taxes and lies geared towards enriching a few? You want to know? Ok, read the next few comments about me and this post.

Then answer - which sounds like satan on mount olives?

@Mazaje
Since you directed the issue at me, I would oblige you with a response; whilst prosperity on it's own is not wrong and christianity is not against it. However the point we are making is that 'prosperity gospel' is not a christian doctrine and it is not biblical. All the verses joagbaje and other pimps use to preach the scam are quoted out of context with the primary motive of manipulating believers. The prosperity gospel flies in the face of true christian teaching and is designed for itchy ears who want to be deceived. What we are angry with joagbaje for is that he is a false preacher ridicling the gospel for personal gain and it is becos of criminal elements like him who distort the gospel and drive lost souls like yourself into the delusion of atheism.

@ Mazeje

mazaje:

1. Is prosperity wrong according to the Christian doctrine?

Prosperity according to any doctrine should not be wrong if the individual worked and achieved the Gains himself. One of the ethos for prosperity is Hard-work, and if genuine and does not include cheating another soul, prosperity should be encouraged as a deserved result of hard-work and Labour.

With regards to Christianity, I feel the concept of the "prosperity" being dished out to the congregation is misleading. The concept of having to to "Give" in order to "Recieve" just seems like a pyramid scheme to me. The view of "giving" to God so as to "activate" blessings and prosperity "upon" themselves seems farcical as people of other Faiths and of no faiths prospers without giving to any Church. It then discredit the preposterous claim of giving to recieve. The fact that their are people on earth who have not been stepped a foot in a Church or any religious gathering and yet live a fulfilling and prospered life than thos that "Give"only nulls the silly claim. (It seems you are trying to bribe someone to recieve something)

Prosperity is not wrong for anybody, and its definition varies to each individual. However, Monetory prosperity is not limited to Christians alone, let alone Christians that Give. Prosperity is phenomena. And anyone that charges or manipulate people to "pay" for a phenomena is a Fraud becuase he is selling you a posibility and not a guarantee

(Forgive my typos)

mazaje:


2. Is there any verse in the bible that states the believers will experience lack, injustice, diseases, suffering and poverty?

Not that I know of, but there is a verse in which Jesus (The one whose teachings and morality Christians are meant to adhere to) told a "rich" to sell all that he has and follow him.

One more thing.

The ability to quote from a book does not necesarily equate to the right understanding or knowlegde of that book. A book like the bible in all it's complexities has the tendency to give meaning to anything. All you have to do is remove a verse and quote it out of contexy hence the reason 8 different people can come up with 8 different meanings but I'm sure you are aware of that already.  It's the best tool to use as a source of manipualtion. (sure you are aware of that too)

Joagbaje:

I don't want to win religious poster of the year. A beg . I would love to be a moderator. I promise to bring and enforce order . I will enforce the rules of the forum . I will press for a christian section . Please vote me a moderator and Nairaland will not be a place for agberos.

Haiti. Classic example. (Seun, bear in mind)


By the way,How will you deal with your Critics?

dare2think:

Haiti. Classic example. (Seun, bear in mind)


By the way,How will you deal with your Critics?

Jo cannot make moderator. His regime will be bad for business

mazaje:


Non of them wants to touch it. . .Pastor Kun is a regular and vehement critic of Joagbaje. . . .I wonder why him and other critics of Joagbaje are not saying anything meaningful

They've never really said anything meaningful. When they get hooked in a civic discussion, they come after jo.

with verses from the bible to support their arguments. . . Again the questions are these. . .

1. Is prosperity wrong according to the Christian doctrine?
2. Is there any verse in the bible that states the believers will experience lack, injustice, diseases, suffering and poverty?

I think the first assignment you should give them is to define what prosperity is. They can't even explain prosperity biblically . . For me prosperity is not materialism. It's a state of wholeness and being a blessing. Let them define what property is and why their god is against it.

dare2think:

By the way,How will you deal with your Critics?

Nothing personal, just to enforce rules laid down.more responsible people who had stopped posting due to agberoism will come back.

Joagbaje:

I don't want to win religious poster of the year. A beg . I would love to be a moderator. I promise to bring and enforce order . I will enforce the rules of the forum . I will press for a christian section . Please vote me a moderator and Nairaland will not be a place for agberos.

O ga Jo if you are really serious hmmmmm then e no go funny o

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride!

Anyway, I thought the general consensus was that Yookos had "overtaken" FaceBook! It should be even easier to register JoLand and "overtake" NairaLand plus in that situation, Moderator will be a small thing too meager for a god who owns the world.

Just please close the door behind you as you go

mazaje:


Non of them wants to touch it. . .Pastor Kun is a regular and vehement critic of Joagbaje. . . .I wonder why him and other critics of Joagbaje are not saying anything meaningful with verses from the bible to support their arguments.

That is exactly the issue, they cannot argue meaningful over any issue raised in a thread nor originate a thread themselves but rather they always attack other people personality. Again i wonder how an unbeliever pastor kun poster kun should choose a pastor as his forum name?

If by 'unbeliever' you mean an unbeliever in Oyakhilome and his fraudulent cult called cec, then I plead guilty.

mazaje:

Is there any verse in the bible that states the believers will experience lack, injustice, diseases, suffering and poverty?. . . . . .

^
[b](John 16:33 [KJV])
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

(2Cor 4:8-11 [KJV])
We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

(Rom 8:18 [KJV])
For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

(1Pet 4:12-14 [KJV])
Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

(Heb 11:36-38 [KJV])
And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. [/b]

The modern pentecostal movement is actually an aberration. The usual state of the church has been that of being beset on every side and being persecuted. This is so today even in places like Saudi Arabia, Iran, China and parts of Northern Nigeria. The history of the church bears this out. Consult Foxe's Book of Martyrs.

@Alethea; While you are still around, I have for you in the violent Christian thread Verses of Quran and a hadith that talks about Malaika Jibril as Ruuh Qudus.

Now proof your Holy Ghost to me as Yahweh, Yahweh is always in heaven if you take notice from your Bible.

I need the proper name of the ghost unless it is nameless, while Father God is Yahweh and son god is Jesus?

Yahweh didn't get Mary pregnant, Holy Ghost did, yet it is Yahweh you call the father of the son god, not ghost god.

I need you resignation letter from Christianity, unless you are spineless [all talk without substance like aitheist Mazaje and christianFrosbel, Nuclearboy, etc]?

@sweetnecta:

You promised to obey me if I showed you that all Muslims will go to hell. After I showed you, you said "everybody" will go and that to you was a defense!

Why should Aletheia or me or anyone take a liar serious?

Or can you deny that you did not say so or that I did not show you?

Go suckle on a Camels bits - you are a lying animal