The ranting of a mad man. What has the post got to do with what you just typed.It's obviously you have comprehension issues. Take a break, then come back and tell what you just typed makes sense.

Please the Government should be very careful when dealing with Brazil. I live in Canada, that was how they came to Canada with their money pretending to invest in the economy by buying up majority shares in Government key industries, as soon as they sign the agreement, they lay off all the workers, dismantle the entire structures and send it to their country and leave the country dry. I live in Canada and the Government regretted ever going into any deal with the Brazilians. Ask the company what Happened to Val-Inco Mining in Canada and other companies they wrecked. All that glitters is not gold

premechaz:

Monopoly is not that bad. The US does the same thing, why cant we copy the Americans

there are different kinds of monopolies.
ex. all monopolies in America are American. not foreign owned.

at least learn to copy correctly. and also, don't sell ur birthright for a bowl of soup.

@kizito96

That's a good observation. Now you are giving example with what happened to a mining company in Canada( you are pointing to a company in a particular city not nation wide) - these are different private companies with different backgrounds not because they come from the same country! It's the same fear of  rumor of exploitation that's raised during the telecommunication privatization. Where is NITEL today!? Was it the privatization of telecommunication industry that destroyed it? The reason's that it couldn't compete in the industry and nobody wants it any longer.

100 billion dollars is a huge sum of money the govt must consider to accept now not until they say they are not willing to pay such amount any more. There's nothing bad and there are usually price control per amount of energy you use - why would ordinary Nigerians be afraid.Many countries are operating private power generation and supply - it is not a new thing. We should remove this colonial fear syndrome from our views.

NB: I would like us to really examine the situation of our electricity generation and the privatization closely.

ShipIt:

@ premechaz and afram4eva

I may be a YOUNG MAN but it is obvious I am much more developed than you mentally and intellectually.

Don't be too fast!  You dont know that. intellectually, without sounding lika a braggadocio, you are not on my level. I am about to tell you why:

If you see all those dependencies you mentioned as a positive thing then you are even thicker than you sound. Just because Nigeria has been violated by foreigners since independence does not mean it should open it's legs wider for other foreigners to enjoy it.

First of all, your analogy doesn't make sense. You are comparing rape, a heinous crime, with a business transaction? Who does that?

Anyway, I will humor you: NEPA/PHCN is a burden on Nigeria. A big burden for that matter. PHCN is a federal parastatal, meaning, the FG pays the employees on a monthly basis, whether they make money or not, the FG pays for the pension of NEPA and PHCN retirees, including their gratuities, the FG is in addition  to being reponsible for the upkeep of many a ghost staff working at PHCN,  is also responsible for equipment procurement and maintenance. Simply put, the FG spends huge amount of money on PHCN, with nothing to show for it, literally.


If we sell the PHCN to the Brazilians, the FG pockets 100 billion dolls, our annual budget x5 ( That is, we can simply stop pumping oil for next five years and life would still go on in obodo-niaja). The money can be used to invest in other areas of out life that are are badly in  need of fund, education, health, inter-state transportation et al. If you call that colonization, I'd take it. It is better than the status quo, NO?

Nobody is against dealing with foreigners, but there has to be a balance. And handing over a nations power infrastructure to a foreigner ( with a racist mentality at that) is just foolish.

It is not a foolish idea, it is the best thing, giving our present circumstance. The CEO of Citigroup is Indian, the CEO of Pepsico ( an American company) is Indian, the governor of the state of Louisiana is Indian, NASA just signed a contract with Airbus, these and many more show that the world is changing. We need to get on with the rest of the world. remember that if you cant beat them, you join them. And so far, as a people we have failed. Even after changing NEPA to PHCN, it is apparent that the problem is with us as a people, our mentality and our outlook. We lack the brain, the brawn, the professionalism and ability to run our power sector. It is time we try a different way of doing things. We can learn a lot from the Brazilians, a lesson that would put us in a great position with respect to other areas of our political and national life. The time to act is now, let the govt handover PHCN to the Brazilians and get the 100 billion dollar . Imagine what we can do with an extra 100 billion dollars, not to talk of the money that would accrue to the treasury from whatever tax the company is bound by law to pay for the rest of her existence in Nigeria. This can only be good for us.

You rather be colonized you say?

In this situation? YES! I love the good life my dear.

Then migrate to the west and live as a second or third class citizen for the rest of your life, at least you ll have electricity 24/7. As long as you pay your bill that is.

I am already here and i want what i enjoy here to be available to my friends and family in Nigeria. I am not a selfish guy, unlike you. Living as a second class citizen isnt that bad though, they do all the thinking, you sit back, relax and do nothing. What could be better?

I bet your one of those people who have given up on Nigeria and dot even get angry anymore when you see leaders pushing our sovereignty away.

I gave up on Nigeria a long time ago. we can only go down from here.

I bet you would rather go to the west, marry the ugliest woman you can find just for Kwali, and be her b***h even though you know your better than that.

What makes you think I am better than that? the ugliest Akata/white is way better than the most beautiful Nigerian woman. And yes, I will take the ugliest foreigner, especially White, over the most beautiful Nigerian ANYDAY ANYTIME. Thank you.

All because you are a quitter who doesn't realize that the better countries got better by facing their problems instead of just blaming others and running away. It's your country and no foreigner is gonna do anything in your interest. If you still want to hear more, reply me nonsense again.

Sometimes it is better to quit. Smokers who quit smoking live longer than those who do not. Same for alcoholics and prostitutes. It was Einstein who defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Nuff said.

$100 billion??
Ha ha ha. Dream on. That would Phcn among the top 30 most valuable companies in the world? No way. It must be a misprint or a gross exageration. We Nigerians love to exagerate , especially when it comes to money. For any Foriegn buyer, Phcn is not worth more than $4-$5 billion, no matter how  much our government says they have invested on it with their ten-fold inflated contracts.

Jenifa_:

there are different kinds of monopolies.
ex. all monopolies in America are American. not foreign owned.

at least learn to copy correctly.  and also, don't sell your birthright for a bowl of soup.

What do you mean by birthright? Oil that brings in money or NEPA that drains that money away?

So it is right for Shell, Exxonmobil et al to cheat us and degrade our environment, but the same thing dont by the Braziians is considered evil? I am an EOF, what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

I dont get it?

premechaz:


In this situation? YES! I love the good life my dear.

I am already here and i want what i enjoy here to be available to my friends and family in Nigeria. I am not a selfish guy, unlike you. Living as a second class citizen isnt that bad though, they do all the thinking, you sit back, relax and do nothing. What could be better?

I gave up on Nigeria a long time ago. we can only go down from here.


What makes you think I am better than that? the ugliest Akata/white is way better than the most beautiful Nigerian woman. And yes, I will take the ugliest foreigner, especially White, over the most beautiful Nigerian ANYDAY ANYTIME. Thank you.

You explicitly exposed yourself here as someone who does not have Nigeria's best interest at heart.
Why don't you leave the Nigerians here to discuss what's best for our country. ok?

For some reason, people like you (who do not care one bit for the country) are the ones who populate the government and are bringing our nation to ruin.

@premechaz
you just said it all. I rest my case totally.

Seeing how important this exchange is to you, I will comment on your conclusion. Eventhough you took so much time to research and write it, I only had time to skim through it.

You were right about the definition of insanity, therefore why do you think selling the power infrastructure to Brazil will fare any better than the deals in the past. where is Nitel today? Where are the steel companies? How are try benefitting us Nigerians.

Where have the proceeds from such deals gone in the past? Not social programs, not other economical sectors. Look at what Nigeria s track record says not what you THINK will happen.
Enjoy your second class citizenship while others do all the work. Nigeria does not need anymore of that kind of mentality.

premechaz:

What do you mean by birthright? Oil that brings in money or NEPA that drains that money away?

So it is right for Shell, Exxonmobil et al to cheat us and degrade our environment, but the same thing dont by the Braziians is considered evil? I am an EOF, what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

I dont get it?

What in the world is EOF?
The point is  our govt have been foolish to let foreigners control our oil. but we would be even more stupid to sell off our energy as well.
you say brazillian company will bring you good life. has Shell brought you good life?

Aight, post unbanned by spam filter.

Here it is in case you missed it:

ekt_bear:

I don't know PHCN more than either of them. However, I don't think 6 or 7GW worth of generating capacity is worth $100 billion. I looked at some brand new power projects on a power industry website and I was seeing way different prices.

See this for example: http://www.power-eng.com/articles/2011/08/gas-fired-power-plant-purchased-by-exelon.html

Scaling up, $420 million per GW. So the at most 10 GW Nigeria has capacity now for is worth let's say $4.2 billion. Even scale it up by 5 to account for factors we've not taken into account, this is roughly $20 billion. So I guess most of the value is in the distribution network and monopoly, not the power plants?

Anyway, I'm not claiming to know the answers, I'm just a bit surprised and to be honest suspicious.

Like I said, lots of questions about how they are getting to this $100 billion #.

I don't give a damn if they sell off the power plants for $50 billion; there is no monopoly in that. But the discos? That is a different kettle of fish.

Jenifa_:

What in the world is EOF?
The point is  our govt have been foolish to let foreigners control our oil. but we would be even more silly to sell off our energy as well.
you say brazillian company will bring you good life. has Shell brought you good life?

If shell didn't bring good life does that mean Brazilian  power company can't?

Jenifa_:

What in the world is EOF?
The point is  our govt have been foolish to let foreigners control our oil. but we would be even more silly to sell off our energy as well.
you say brazillian company will bring you good life. has Shell brought you good life?

EOF: Equal opportunity phocker.

If Shell is allowed to r/a//p/e us, I see no reason why we should close our legs to the Brazillians. And yes, 24/7 electricity would make our life better. More business,  better health status ( you have no idea how much COPD is caused from smoke from  "adogan,"  charcoal, and firewood use) for us, reduction in crime, technically etc. The good WRT this project outweighs the bad. You just have to open your mind, Ms. Latvia.

And your question on shell, are you serious? without Shell and Exxonmobil, do you think we would have the kind of middleclass we have now? Use your brain dear. I still love you though.

all4naija:

If shell didn't bring good life does that mean Brazilian  power company can't?

well, keep waiting for Brazil to bring you good life.
since brazil is the new mother theresa

premechaz:

EOF: Equal opportunity phocker.

If Shell is allowed to r/a//p/e us, I see no reason why we should close our legs to the Brazillians. And yes, 24/7 electricity would make our life better. More business,  better health status ( you have no idea how much COPD is caused from smoke from  "adogan,"  charcoal, and firewood use) for us, reduction in crime, technically etc. The good WRT this project outweighs the bad. You just have to open your mind, Ms. Latvia.

And your question on shell, are you serious? without Shell and Exxonmobil, do you think we would have the kind of middleclass we have now? Use your brain dear. I still love you though.

now I see you are just being sarcastic.
no further comments.

globexl:

$100 billion??
Ha ha ha. Dream on. That would Phcn among the top 30 most valuable companies in the world? No way. It must be a misprint or a gross exageration. We Nigerians love to exagerate , especially when it comes to money. For any Foriegn buyer, Phcn is not worth more than $4-$5 billion, no matter how  much our government says they have invested on it with their ten-fold inflated contracts.

my thoughts exactly, is apple even worth that ? Throwing around figures like we're talking about pebbles

Jenifa_:

What in the world is EOF?
The point is  our govt have been foolish to let foreigners control our oil. but we would be even more silly to sell off our energy as well.
you say brazillian company will bring you good life. has Shell brought you good life?

Shell is a private company that pumps crude and pays the nigerian govt for doing so, to the best of my knowledge she does that though with a couple of spills here and there. Don't mistake the responsibilities of Shell with that of the FG

edoyad:

my thoughts exactly, is apple even worth that ? Throwing around figures like we're talking about pebbles
Shell is a private company that pumps crude and pays the nigerian govt for doing so, to the best of my knowledge she does that though with a couple of spills here and there. Don't mistake the responsibilities of Shell with that of the FG

How do you guys trivialize these matters so?
Countries go to war with each other over stuff like this (ie US and Iraq conflict mostly has to do with the fact that Iraq refused to privatize it's oil industry)

how can you even compare apple to pchn? 
one is more strictly economical. the other is more political/ national interest.
the 100 billion price tag is that way for a reason. controlling a country's energy supply is much more than just the money. In fact, there shouldn't be a price tag on it if our govt is sensible at all. we expose ourselves to all sorts of political, security, economic vulnerabilities by selling our energy to a foreign company.

Jenifa_:

How do you guys trivialize these matters so?
Countries go to war with each other over stuff like this (ie US and Iraq conflict mostly has to do with the fact that Iraq refused to privatize it's oil industry)

how can you even compare apple to pchn? 
one is more strictly economical. the other is more political/ national interest.
the 100 billion price tag is that way for a reason. controlling a country's energy supply is much more than just the money. In fact, there shouldn't be a price tag on it if our govt is sensible at all.

What do you know about NEPA?

Do  you know how much the govt spends on it? Do you know how inefficient that piece of shyyt is? Do you know that how dilapidated the equipments are? Do you that people are left in darkness for years, just because their transformer broke down and the govt does not have money to repair/buy new ones. I bet ya, that the people in Nigeria, who are in perpetual darkness dont care if NEPA is being sold to Brazilians, Americans or drug dealers. All they want is light. And I dont think that is too much to ask for. If it will take a Brazilian to provide constant electricity, so be it.

NEPA is draining a lot of fund, you have no idea how much is spent on a yearly basis on NEPA. The  power  sector  is  characterized by high  energy losses  (about  30-35% from generation  to billings),  a  low  collection  rate  (in  the  range  of  75-80%), and  low  access  to  electricity by  the populace  (about  36%).  Inadequate  tariffs and  gross  inefficiencies  in  operations  over  the years have  led  to  inadequate internal  cash generation.  The  utility  is  heavily dependent  on  fuel  subsidies and  funding of  capital projects  by  the Government.  In  2000,  the Government
financial  support  to NEPA  amounted to  about  US$400  million,  or  13%  of  the total  FGN  capital budget.  NEPA's  unmet  debt  service obligations  through  2000 amount  to  about  N40.5  billion  (about  US$396  million  equivalent).

We cant continue like this. I say Viva la Brazillians



PS: In 2004 alone, we spent N54 billion on NEPA. This is not sustainable.

I bet ya, that the people in Nigeria, who are in perpetual darkness dont care if NEPA is being sold to Brazilians, Americans or drug dealers. All they want is light. And I dont think that is too much to ask for. If it will take a Brazilian to provide constant electricity, so be it.

It doesn't really matter what the people think. people will always think for their short term pockets.
but govt should be more concerned about national security rather than just some middle and upper class folks. govt main purpose is to protect national interest. that's what they are elected for.

even the US wouldn't sell it's energy to a foreign firm even if it was cost efficient. In fact, it would fight other countries over such matters.
as you have seen from ppl's post, PHCN not worth up to 5 billion. so why do you think brazil is willing to pay 100 billion to control our energy supply? obviously you are failing to see the larger picture.

would you also support privatization of water supply? to a foreign firm? and what happens when that country gets mad at us. we thirst to death?
anyway this is my last comment on this issue with you. I think I have made my point clear.

Monopoly is not the answer at all. Let's apply the learnings from telecom sector. Open up the market and let the competition begin. The key word is LIBERALIZATION!

efisher:

Monopoly is not the answer at all. Let's apply the learnings from telecom sector. Open up the market and let the competition begin. The key word is LIBERALIZATION!

it's not sensible to "open up the market" of utilities like electricity 
it is a natural monopoly in a way. and that is why most times it is best for govt to regulate it or at least protect it.

water supply and sewage systems are other examples.
land line communication system is another example. you will note that competition in telecom really began when the sector became wireless. otherwise, it would have remained a monopoly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_monopoly

Liberalized market is the direct opposite of monopoly! How does "natural monopoly" come in

There can only be ONE distribution company in an area.

It isn't economical to have 20 different discos in a location.

If the disco that serves your city decides to gouge you, you have no other option. It isn't like there will be another company that is going to lay wire to your house. . . not like buying rice or food where you can go to a different seller if you don't like the price guy A is offering.

This is why the financial health of whoever buys the distribution company serving your city/state/zone is sooo important. If he overpays for the disco, guess who the disco owner will decide to gouge to make up his money?

Free competition can only happy on the power generation side. Transmission is a monopoly (will be retained by the FG), and so is distribution.

That is the point Jenifa and everybody else is making about "natural monopoly."

Jenifa_:


It doesn't really matter what the people think. people will always think for their short term pockets.

Democracy is the govt of the people. You do what the people want, No?

but govt should be more concerned about national security rather than just some middle and upper class folks. govt main purpose is to protect national interest. that's what they are elected for.

How is this a matter of national interest? This is electricity generation, the old way. We are not talking of nuclear reactors here. Shell already controls the govt, or did you not read those Wikileak expose.  I see nothing wrong with bringing the Brazilians on board. two brains are better than one. The more people /overseas company controlling our confused leaders, the better fro us.
'

as you have seen from ppl's post, PHCN not worth up to 5 billion.

Who cares what ediots here have to say. Some of them have not been to Nigeria since they were exiled from birth. Most left after failing their JS3 exams in Lagos. I dont care about their opinion. The same mentality caused us to sell our GSM license for peanuts when we could have made some good killing. Now MTN, Etiasalat et all are reaping where they did not sow. And yes, if you have the intellect to do the cost analysis, you'd realize that NEPA is worth that much, at least it is worth $50 billion

would you also support privatization of water supply?

Absolutely, if it would lead to better supply of clean and portable water to many a Nigerian currently with no access to clean water.

to a foreign firm?

Yes. They are already here. If we can import our rice from Asia, spending $1 billion on rice importation in 2010, what is wrong with doing the something with water supply. The Zimbabweans in charge of milk production in Kwara are all white, what is wrong with foreigners making our life better?

and what happens when that country gets mad at us. we thirst to death?

We are not selling to Brazil. We are selling to a Brazilian firm/ Brazilians. This is strictly business and it has nothing to do with national security. the govt will not just hand off the power sector to them, the ministry of power will still perform some oversight functions

anyway this is my last comment on this issue with you. I think I have made my point clear.

You have said nothing so far. You are bereft of original ideas unfortunately.

efisher:

Liberalized market is the direct opposite of monopoly! How does "natural monopoly" come in

I guess ekt bear answered the question.

Ok thanks, I get your point. You mean electricity is naturally "monopolistic". Yeah that's true.

The way liberalization can work as you said is in power generation. Let's start from there. Government can concentrate its efforts and funds in the transmission and distribution aspects. Alternatively, allow several regional players. Eg one company per state or per geopolitical region etc. The key is efficient regulation.

Jenifa_:

I guess ekt bear answered the question.

you said something about erecting new poles, could you pleas re-post it?

Obviously, you have no idea what you are talking about. erecting poles is not the only way you transmit electricity. Do some google search my dear

efisher:

Ok thanks, I get your point. You mean electricity is naturally "monopolistic". Yeah that's true.

The way liberalization can work as you said is in power generation. Let's start from there. Government can concentrate its efforts and funds in the transmission and distribution aspects. Alternatively, allow several regional players. Eg o[b]ne company per state or per geopolitical region[/b] etc. The key is efficient regulation.

It is still the same as having one company doing it all. The US does it that way because each state runs her own affair. In Nigeria, the fed govt is in charge. So the states have no say on this. NEPA is owned by the feds.


Think before posting

what is the name of this brasilian company? has anybody any information about their history in the energy sector? Are they are front to another entity? what is their plan or modus operandi? until we know all this and more all above arguement is nothing.
lets research and find out more before we continue the discussion.
stay blessed

Democracy is the govt of the people. You do what the people want, No?

I'm sure it's somewhere in the constitution that foreign affairs/policy is within the purview of only the fed. govt.
and also in the constitution that govt primary purpose is security and welfare.
ie. you elect your govt to do what's best for you.

you said it yourself that you prefer to be colonized anyway.

As long as they is constant light 24/7 Nationwide in Nigeria.  Residence of Nigeria can afford to pay whatever just to end the craziness of Generator Noise from neighbors and even Banks and Companies. After all, the UK gets majority of its Nation's Power from Russia, that's why the UK must not mess up with Russia, if they do, na one button Russia go press to shut the gas supply and UK is doomed. But the main issue is light dey 24/7 shikena!!

@jenifa

National Grid plc (LSE: NG., NYSE: NGG) is a multinational electricity and gas utility company headquartered in
London, United Kingdom. Its
principal activities are in the
United Kingdom and
northeastern United States
and it is one of the largest investor-owned energy companies in the world. [1] National Grid is listed on the London Stock Exchange and is a constituent of the FTSE 100 Index. It has a secondary listing on the New York Stock Exchange . History Former CEGB In 1990, the transmission
activities of the Central Electricity Generating Board were transferred to the
National Grid Company plc,
which was owned by the 12 Regional Electricity Companies (RECs) through a holding
company, National Grid Group
plc. In 1995, shares in this
holding company were listed on the stock exchange. [2] Within a year, most of the
RECs had disposed of their
interests. Acquisitions In 2000, National Grid Group
acquired New England Electric System [3] and Eastern Utilities Associates. [4] In January 2002, National Grid
Group acquired Niagara
Mohawk Holdings, Inc, a New York State utility. [5] Merger with Transco In October of the same year,
National Grid Group merged
with Lattice Group plc, owner of Transco – the UK gas
distribution business (Lattice
demerged from BG Group in 2000).[6] National Grid Group changed its name to National
Grid Transco plc. In 2004, National Grid Transco
agreed to sell four of its
regional gas distribution
networks. The total cash
consideration was £5.8 billion.
NGT kept ownership of other four distribution networks,
which comprise almost half of
Great Britain's gas distribution network. [7] In 2005, National Grid Transco
was renamed National Grid plc.[8] On 26 July 2005 National Grid Company was renamed
National Grid Electricity
Transmission plc and on 10
October 2005 Transco was
renamed National Grid Gas plc. Further acquisitions In February 2006, National
Grid announced that it had
agreed to buy KeySpan Corporation,[9] a gas distributor and electricity
producer in the United States,
f