baralatie:

How old was bianca when ojukwu started to date her

6 months

Obaaderemi2:
The northerners are ruling over you and your family because Nigeria is not a normal country. The same northerners who have political power are still the poorest and most ignorant in Nigeria, diseased and terrorized. In actual sense they are beneath every other part in Nigeria and are made to slave for others. If I want to dig a soakaway I call northerners.

^^^
For over half a century, this has been the refrain. How can those who are poor, ignorant, diseased, terrorized etc. continue to lead those who aren't?

It does not add up.

If the least capable continue to control, outwit and manipulate their so called betters - for over half a century - then it means somebody, somewhere isn't telling the truth.

And...digging septic tanks is honest labour. Lowly, but honest. There's nothing wrong with it. Ranks far higher on the honesty or integrity scale than investment bankers and hedge fund managers trading toxic sub-prime mortgages.

Fujiyama:


^^^
For over half a century, this has been the refrain. How can those who are poor, ignorant, diseased, terrorized etc. continue to lead those who aren't?

It does not add up.

If the least capable continue to control, outwit and manipulate their so called betters - for over half a century - then it means somebody, somewhere isn't telling the truth.

And...digging septic tanks is honest labour. Lowly, but honest. There's nothing wrong with it. Ranks far higher on the honesty or integrity scale than investment bankers and hedge fund managers trading toxic sub-prime mortgages.

It adds up if you take your time to study Nigeria's history. The British knew what they were doing when they conducted Nigeria's first census, skewed in favour of the north. They didn't stop there. By 1960, entry requirements into the armed forces had been so watered down for northerners that it was completely easy for them to dominate the military. The military then became the North's gloved iron fist just like the British forces earlier. For your information, ilorin was retaken by the yorubas from the Fulanis but the British forces reinstalled the Fulanis.
But to what effect is the North's hold to power? Poverty, disease, disenfranchisement.
Or probably you would prefer your child to be a soakaway digger to being an investment banker. What's your honest answer?

[b][/b]

Obaaderemi2:
It adds up if you take your time to study Nigeria's history. The British knew what they were doing when they conducted Nigeria's first census, skewed in favour of the north. They didn't stop there. By 1960, entry requirements into the armed forces had been so watered down for northerners that it was completely easy for them to dominate the military. The military then became the North's gloved iron fist just like the British forces earlier.

^^
Fair argument.

But there have been a number of opportunities since then to at least open the conversation about tilting the balance but Southern Nigeria always chokes. Always. The most recent example is the breach of resolutions reached at the last (2021) Southern Governors Forum meeting hosted by Okowa and chaired by Akeredolu. Where are these two gentlemen today? Complete silence.

The South isn't serious, full stop.

Obaaderemi2:
For your information, ilorin was retaken by the yorubas from the Fulanis but the British forces reinstalled the Fulanis.

^^^
References?

Obaaderemi2:
But to what effect is the North's hold to power? Poverty, disease, disenfranchisement. Or probably you would prefer your child to be a soakaway digger to being an investment banker. What's your honest answer?

^^^
True about Northern Nigeria not having anything to show on the human capital development front - after a monopoly on power for over 50 years. But Northern Nigeria's elite doesn't care about this - as long as power is theirs to wield then nothing else matters. And Southern Nigeria is always ready to help them in achieving this simple goal.

I would definitely want my children to aim for the skies. But not at the price of their souls.

Fujiyama:
[b][/b]

^^
Fair argument.

But there have been a number of opportunities since then to at least open the conversation about tilting the balance but Southern Nigeria always chokes. Always. The most recent example is the breach of resolutions reached at the last (2021) Southern Governors Forum meeting hosted by Okowa and chaired by Akeredolu. Where are these two gentlemen today? Complete silence.

The South isn't serious, full stop.

Yinmu.
You think changing a societal structure is that easy. Look at Rwanda. The minority Tutsis have always dominated the majority Hutu in Rwanda. The Europeans set it up that way. It led to war in the 1990s and Tutsis were massacred. Today the Tutsis are still holding on. You think the northerners in Nigeria would gladly relinquish their hold on political power when that's the only thing they have and with a northern dominated army to back them? In fact the yorubas did a wonderful job wrestling Nigeria from the north somewhat through protests and political manoeuvre after the death of abiola. Forget about Okowa and Akeredolu and the southern governor's forum. Those are mere eyewash. Nigeria's problems with the north has gone deeper than that, my friend.

^^^
References?

Historical sources said in 1895, the Yoruba
rose against the then emir, burnt his palace
and killed him. But the revolt did not result in
enthronement of a Yoruba king. In 1913,
when Lord Lugard administered the northern
and southern Nigeria, Yoruba were said to
have spearheaded a riot over tax to bring the
rulership of the then emir to ridicule. In 1936,
the Yoruba, according to sources, also moved
to oust Emir Abdulkadir who was banished to
Kaduna but got reinstated by the colonial
administration.
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2021/02/the-wars-yoruba-fight/

^^^
True about Northern Nigeria not having anything to show on the human capital development front - after a monopoly on power for over 50 years. But Northern Nigeria's elite doesn't care about this - as long as power is theirs to wield then nothing else matters. And Southern Nigeria is always ready to help them in achieving this simple goal.

I would definitely want my children to aim for the skies. But not at the price of their souls.

Wether northern Nigeria elite care about their people's backwardness or not is not the subject here. The fact is that inspite of the political power they've held since Independence, they rank lowest in terms of human development indices. Their problem is self inflicted with poverty and terrorism wasting them. That's what I told the other dude, that in essence the north is actually the least powerful region in Nigeria, if they are lower than the others they think they are subjugating. And because they are oblivious of the problem, like you alluded to, then they will remain backward probably forever.

It's not a case of southern Nigeria helping them maintain the status quo, it's a case of dealing carefully with a lunatic.

And lastly, about your children and their souls, they can still be hedge fund managers and investment bankers with the right principles intact. And mind you, your children can be mairuwas(Water sellers) and still deal unjustly with people. Or have you not heard of bandits, terrorists and kidnappers of northern extraction who are cart pushers in daytime but thieves at night?

Obaaderemi2:
Yinmu.

^^^
Don't know what that means.

Obaaderemi2:
You think changing a societal structure is that easy. Look at Rwanda. The minority Tutsis have always dominated the majority Hutu in Rwanda. The Europeans set it up that way. It led to war in the 1990s and Tutsis were massacred. Today the Tutsis are still holding on. You think the northerners in Nigeria would gladly relinquish their hold on political power when that's the only thing they have and with a northern dominated army to back them?

^^^
Of course, changing social structure isn't easy. It requires focus and determination, among other qualities. The problem is that far too many Southerners console themselves with constant denigration of all Northerners in the press, in online media etc. - instead of doing the hard work required to reform this contraption. I asked earlier and I ask again: How can it be that those derided as the most incapable, incompetent etc. continue to outwit and outmanoeuvre those who consider themselves to be 'superior'? How? These references to colonial perfidy won't cut it any longer. The British left over 60 years ago - and Southern Nigeria is still squabbling and making excuses?

Obaaderemi2:

In fact the yorubas did a wonderful job wrestling Nigeria from the north somewhat through protests and political manoeuvre after the death of abiola.

^^^



Ok.

Obaaderemi2:

Forget about Okowa and Akeredolu and the southern governor's forum. Those are mere eyewash.

^^^



This is what I meant about not being serious. These men made a proclamation and chose not to stand by it. When they make similar proclamations tomorrow (let's put the merit of those proclamations aside for now) then who'll take them seriously?

Obaaderemi2:

Historical sources said in 1895, the Yoruba
rose against the then emir, burnt his palace
and killed him. But the revolt did not result in
enthronement of a Yoruba king. In 1913,
when Lord Lugard administered the northern
and southern Nigeria, Yoruba were said to
have spearheaded a riot over tax to bring the
rulership of the then emir to ridicule. In 1936,
the Yoruba, according to sources, also moved
to oust Emir Abdulkadir who was banished to
Kaduna but got reinstated by the colonial
administration.
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2021/02/the-wars-yoruba-fight/

^^^
It would be good to know what these "sources" are. There are proper historians out there who could corroborate or contradict the claims in the Vanguard piece. I am interested in hearing what they have to say about this.

Obaaderemi2:

Wether northern Nigeria elite care about their people's backwardness or not is not the subject here.

^^^



But you care - enough to write at length about it. If it didn't matter to you, it wouldn't attract your attention.

Obaaderemi2:
The fact is that inspite of the political power they've held since Independence, they rank lowest in terms of human development indices. Their problem is self inflicted with poverty and terrorism wasting them. That's what I told the other dude, that in essence the north is actually the least powerful region in Nigeria, if they are lower than the others they think they are subjugating. And because they are oblivious of the problem, like you alluded to, then they will remain backward probably forever.

^^^
Nothing new here. The statement of the problem has been around for ages. The question is: what are those who are being "subjugated" going to do about it? Fiery rhetoric on the internet doesn't achieve much. It actually doesn't achieve anything at all - its just a pressure release valve. It doesn't lead to new legislation. It doesn't lead to constitutional amendments. It doesn't lead to a referendum. What is the goal and the end result?

Obaaderemi2:
It's not a case of southern Nigeria helping them maintain the status quo, it's a case of dealing carefully with a lunatic.

^^^



Ok.

Obaaderemi2:
And lastly, about your children and their souls, they can still be hedge fund managers and investment bankers with the right principles intact.

^^^
That's fine.

Fujiyama:


^^^
Don't know what that means.

Issokay.

Fujiyama:

^^^
Of course, changing social structure isn't easy. It requires focus and determination, among other qualities. The problem is that far too many Southerners console themselves with constant denigration of all Northerners in the press, in online media etc. - instead of doing the hard work required to reform this contraption. I asked earlier and I ask again: How can it be that those derided as the most incapable, incompetent etc. continue to outwit and outmanoeuvre those who consider themselves to be 'superior'? How? These references to colonial perfidy won't cut it any longer. The British left over 60 years ago - and Southern Nigeria is still squabbling and making excuses?

Actually I'm not the one who brought up the issue or non-issue of northern domination. It was the guy I was having the conversation with before you came in. But of course the north held political power in Nigeria for a long time but only a blind person would not see how much of it has been whittled down since 1999, especially after Abiola's death and the power plays that followed. If either of Tinubu or Obi comes in as president and completes 2 terms, that will be 22 years of southerners' presidency against 10years for the north since 1999 until 2031. Like I told you, which you in a mischievous manner tend to disregard, changing the status quo in an entrenched political setting is gradual. The unpalatable option is bloodshed. Next?

Fujiyama:

^^^



Ok.



^^^

Yes, ok

Fujiyama:



This is what I meant about not being serious. These men made a proclamation and chose not to stand by it. When they make similar proclamations tomorrow (let's put the merit of those proclamations aside for now) then who'll take them seriously?

The case is bigger than those men. It's a case that is being resolved silently with time in a movement Even the north finds bewildering. It's not about a few parasitic Southern governors.

Fujiyama:

^^^
It would be good to know what these "sources" are. There are proper historians out there who could corroborate or contradict the claims in the Vanguard piece. I am interested in hearing what they have to say about this.

Well, it's the history of my land and it's common knowledge here among the informed. In fact I mentioned it offhandedly to you. But since you asked for a source I had to see what I could quickly find on the net. If you are interested in it, feel free to dig. If you don't believe me, refute the claim with your own source.

Fujiyama:

^^^



But you care - enough to write at length about it. If it didn't matter to you, it wouldn't attract your attention.

I'm not sure you are following your own argument, if I could term it that. I didn't write at length about wether the northern leaders cared about their people or not, I said it doesn't matter to me and no, it doesn't! But I wrote at length about the backwardness of the north. Those are two very different things, please.

Fujiyama:

^^^
Nothing new here. The statement of the problem has been around for ages. The question is: what are those who are being "subjugated" going to do about it? Fiery rhetoric on the internet doesn't achieve much. It actually doesn't achieve anything at all - its just a pressure release valve. It doesn't lead to new legislation. It doesn't lead to constitutional amendments. It doesn't lead to a referendum. What is the goal and the end result?

It's either you are not following like I said earlier or you are finding it hard to comprehend things that are clearly stated. The words I used were 'those the north thought it is subjugating. The north is actually subjugating itself. Every other part of Nigeria has a higher Hdi than the north. They're a basket case on a rapid race to hell. In fact the north needs saving from itself. Look at Buhari's 8 years and how far backward it took the north!

Fujiyama:

^^^



Ok.



^^^
That's fine.

I'm glad you agree that the last is in most cases just that- the last.

Obaaderemi2:

Actually I'm not the one who brought up the issue or non-issue of northern domination. It was the guy I was having the conversation with before you came in.

^^^
No.

In your exchange with that fellow, you said Northern Nigerians "are beneath every other part in Nigeria and are made to slave for others. If I want to dig a soakaway I call northerners".

Your words above are a fine example of the empty bragging I was talking about. I find it interesting how this underclass of slaves and suckaway diggers have their kinsmen calling the shots at the highest level in this country - as they have done for over 60 years. While I most definitely do not agree with Adakintroy's position on sex with minors, his point about Northern Nigeria's elite being fully in charge of this country is true. Whether you admit it or not.

Obaaderemi2:

But of course the north held political power in Nigeria for a long time but only a blind person would not see how much of it has been whittled down since 1999, especially after Abiola's death and the power plays that followed.

^^^
Northern Nigeria's power elite was out of the equation (to an extent) until the Buhari presidency in 2015. However, whatever was "lost" by that group has since been regained under the Buhari administration. Again, you may not like it, but they don't care. But far more important than the superficial question of where a politician comes from is the question of who controls him. You think every president of Southern Nigerian extraction will automatically promote the interests of "Southern Nigeria"?

Obaaderemi2:

If either of Tinubu or Obi comes in as president and completes 2 terms, that will be 22 years of southerners' presidency against 10years for the north since 1999 until 2031.

^^^
"If" is the biggest word in the dictionary. Time will tell.

Obaaderemi2:

Like I told you, which you in a mischievous manner tend to disregard, changing the status quo in an entrenched political setting is gradual. The unpalatable option is bloodshed. Next?

^^^


Delusions.

What gradual changes have been made to this entrenched status quo you refer to? List them!

The 1999 constitution put together by the military is still intact. The unilateral declaration of Sharia law as state law (under the Obasanjo administration ) by several Northern Nigerian states still remains to this day. The Land Use Decree (from Obasanjo's first coming) transmogrified into the Land Use Act and still remains unchanged today. How many items are on the federal exclusive list as at today? So...where is this 'gradual' change to the status quo you're talking about?

Obaaderemi2:
The case is bigger than those men. It's a case that is being resolved silently with time in a movement Even the north finds bewildering. It's not about a few parasitic Southern governors.

^^^
No.

This is what I meant earlier on about being serious. A man's word is his bond.

People took these men at their word. It just won't cut it for you to now talk glibly about big, silent movements that bewilder. These men who claim to be regional spokespersons should say what they mean and mean what they say!

Obaaderemi2:

Well, it's the history of my land and it's common knowledge here among the informed. In fact I mentioned it offhandedly to you. But since you asked for a source I had to see what I could quickly find on the net. If you are interested in it, feel free to dig. If you don't believe me, refute the claim with your own source.

^^^


One would think that a topic as interesting as foreign involvement in a war between two ethnic nationalities in what is now known as Nigeria would demand credible sources. Not these 'unknown sources' credited by a newspaper. You claim it is your history. Surely there are proper historians who can confirm these claims. It shouldn't be hard. So far I haven't refuted your claims - I have merely asked you to provide credible historical sources. You have asserted and thus you must prove. That's all.

Obaaderemi2:
I'm not sure you are following your own argument, if I could term it that. I didn't write at length about wether the northern leaders cared about their people or not, I said it doesn't matter to me and no, it doesn't! But I wrote at length about the backwardness of the north. Those are two very different things, please.

^^^


Oh.

I see.

I am following my argument very well thank you. You wrote at length about the backwardness of Northern Nigeria. To what end? To say what hasn't been said before? Your forebears wrote about this decades ago. You haven't said anything new. What is your interest there and what do you hope to achieve?

Obaaderemi2:

It's either you are not following like I said earlier or you are finding it hard to comprehend things that are clearly stated. The words I used were 'those the north thought it is subjugating. The north is actually subjugating itself. Every other part of Nigeria has a higher Hdi than the north. They're a basket case on a rapid race to hell. In fact the north needs saving from itself. Look at Buhari's 8 years and how far backward it took the north!

^^^



Utter nonsense.

The hairsplitting and wordplay doesn't change a thing. Every single thing you have written up there is a rehash of your earlier thesis about an unviable, inept, incompetent group leading a supposedly viable, adroit, competent class by the nose - into a ditch. The question is why has the South allowed this - if it is indeed true? And what are you going to do about it?

According to you, 'they' are self-subjugating, underdeveloped, suckaway digging slaves accelerating madly into the abyss. The problem for you is...they are taking you with them on this one way road trip to hell and all the online rhetoric in the world can't and won't save you.

Fujiyama:


^^^
No.

In your exchange with that fellow, you said Northern Nigerians "are beneath every other part in Nigeria and are made to slave for others. If I want to dig a soakaway I call northerners".

Your words above are a fine example of the empty bragging I was talking about. I find it interesting how this underclass of slaves and suckaway diggers have their kinsmen calling the shots at the highest level in this country - as they have done for over 60 years. While I most definitely do not agree with Adakintroy's position on sex with minors, his point about Northern Nigeria's elite being fully in charge of this country is true. Whether you admit it or not.

Wow! You really took your time.
I already forgot about this argument to be sincere.

Yes? Are northerners not behind every other region of the country in human development index and indeed every other indices of progress? Yes I said that and like you admitted- it's nothing new. It's an ossified fact that no matter how you argue against it is there on your nose staring you in the eyes. But I didn't bring it up until the other fellow pointed it out in his attempt to justify his warped reasoning.

And if you've followed Nigeria's history, then I'm surprised you find it interesting that these backward people have a lot of influence in Nigeria. They were tactically imposed by the British. Politics in most cases is a game of numbers and the census of 1952/53 did lasting damage to Nigeria as we know it. Correcting that anomaly has been an uphill task for those who see the "status quo" as a problem. The British watered down admission requirements to the military so as to favour the north, among other things they did to plant the north firmly in a rulership position. And there are always fifth columnists even among the Southerners to maintain these anomaly. But that is not to say a lot of ground has not been won.

Fujiyama:

^^^
Northern Nigeria's power elite was out of the equation (to an extent) until the Buhari presidency in 2015. However, whatever was "lost" by that group has since been regained under the Buhari administration. Again, you may not like it, but they don't care. But far more important than the superficial question of where a politician comes from is the question of who controls him. You think every president of Southern Nigerian extraction will automatically promote the interests of "Southern Nigeria"?

If you agreed northern Nigeria elite was out of the equation until Buhari came back in 2015, then I consider you an "inadvertently" honest man for buttressing my point that the northern influence which has been there since the British left had largely and gradually(emphasis on gradually) been whittled down. From 1999 to 2023 is a period of 24 years. You might not realize that for 14 years out of 24, Southerners were in power. And yes, the interests of Southerners were promoted in many areas from business to education to infrastructure. But then, how far have the interests of the northerners been promoted by northern presidents and leaders since 1999 and even before?

Fujiyama:

^^^
"If" is the biggest word in the dictionary. Time will tell.

What is time telling again? Out of 24 years of democracy, the South has had 14years and is about to embark on an extra 8. So, Oga, find another argument.

Fujiyama:

^^^


Delusions.

What gradual changes have been made to this entrenched status quo you refer to? List them!

The 1999 constitution put together by the military is still intact. The unilateral declaration of Sharia law as state law (under the Obasanjo administration ) by several Northern Nigerian states still remains to this day. The Land Use Decree (from Obasanjo's first coming) transmogrified into the Land Use Act and still remains unchanged today. How many items are on the federal exclusive list as at today? So...where is this 'gradual' change to the status quo you're talking about?

Indeed! Remember I told you if facts landed on your nose you still wouldn't recognize it.

Let me give you the example of Lagos. In 1979, jakande an Awo boy in an attempt to bring transportational progress to Lagos, a southern city, signed a contract to build a metroline. The north wasn't comfortable with it. Through their son Buhari, they scuttled the plan.( I sincerely hope you wouldn't ask for historical reference on this )
Like you said, the north is going to hell and is adamant in dragging the rest of you along. Today!,, Lagos is getting or to be more precise, has gotten it's metroline. If you are going to hell, keep going but it's going to be hard to drag everyone along.

Another way in which the status quo has changed is in the issue of security. The Southwest governors formed their own security outfit as a resounding message and warning to the Fulani thugs that their excesses would no longer be ignored. It's a small step but a giant leap from how it used to be. Gradually such ideas would grow stronger. You might not know much about the history of the yorubas with the Fulanis but I can educate you about it that we've always had problems with them after the ilorin affair. Yorubas would have been speaking hausa today as a general language if the armies of the yorubas had not stopped the Fulanis dead in the 19th century in their quest to take over the whole of what is known as southern Nigeria today.( I will give you historical reference on this on request. )

Fujiyama:

^^^
No.

This is what I meant earlier on about being serious. A man's word is his bond.

People took these men at their word. It just won't cut it for you to now talk glibly about big, silent movements that bewilder. These men who claim to be regional spokespersons should say what they mean and mean what they say!

And I'm asking you: are you the one that made them regional spokespersons?

Fujiyama:

^^^


One would think that a topic as interesting as foreign involvement in a war between two ethnic nationalities in what is now known as Nigeria would demand credible sources. Not these 'unknown sources' credited by a newspaper. You claim it is your history. Surely there are proper historians who can confirm these claims. It shouldn't be hard. So far I haven't refuted your claims - I have merely asked you to provide credible historical sources. You have asserted and thus you must prove. That's all.

If you have not refuted it, then it's no longer an issue of interest to me. I've pointed you in a particular direction, if you it interests you then find more material on it.

Fujiyama:

^^^


Oh.

I see.

I am following my argument very well thank you. You wrote at length about the backwardness of Northern Nigeria. To what end? To say what hasn't been said before? Your forebears wrote about this decades ago. You haven't said anything new. What is your interest there and what do you hope to achieve?

Yes? I wrote at length about the backwardness of northern Nigeria which is a fact you dare not refute but I have no concern wether their leaders care about it or not. Isn't that what I said? Those are two different things. You may refer to that part of the conversation/argument if you please.

Fujiyama:

^^^



Utter nonsense.

The hairsplitting and wordplay doesn't change a thing. Every single thing you have written up there is a rehash of your earlier thesis about an unviable, inept, incompetent group leading a supposedly viable, adroit, competent class by the nose - into a ditch. The question is why has the South allowed this - if it is indeed true? And what are you going to do about it?

Do you want to argue the fact that the South is adroit, competent, viable, more progressive when compared to the north? So why does the north have so much influence in Nigeria's affair? I guess that's your argument. This is something I've answered several times already. But I guess people of a mischievous bend will just keep repeating the same question in a bid to win an argument. That's the true meaning of utter nonsense, my aboki.

Fujiyama:

According to you, 'they' are self-subjugating, underdeveloped, suckaway digging slaves accelerating madly into the abyss. The problem for you is...they are taking you with them on this one way road trip to hell and all the online rhetoric in the world can't and won't save you.

The problem for you is that the north is in hell already. The sweet thing is that the rest of us are not ready to follow them there. That's why we educate our children, that's why we embrace birth control, why we build businesses, that's why we invest in sports and entertainment, that's why we frown on crime and killings, that's why we fought for democracy, that's why we create platforms like nairaland where we can talk and encourage one another. That's not to say we don't have our bad eggs and fifth columnists but we are no longer where we used to be.

And lastly, that's why I'm stringing you on. I may choose to stop replying you but I don't know who is reading and might be saved from the crass pessimism your type try to spread. Good morning. I really took my time too.

Obaaderemi2:
Wow! You really took your time.
I already forgot about this argument to be sincere.

Yes? Are northerners not behind every other region of the country in human development index and indeed every other indices of progress? Yes I said that and like you admitted- it's nothing new. It's an ossified fact that no matter how you argue against it is there on your nose staring you in the eyes. But I didn't bring it up until the other fellow pointed it out in his attempt to justify his warped reasoning.

^^^
You haven't added any new information. And yes I really took my time...to set you straight. Whether you agree to be set straight is entirely up to you.

Nobody is arguing against the evidence that Northern Nigeria is far behind. Nobody is! The question I have asked - and you have no answer to - is this: how can those who claim to be sighted agree to be led by those they deride as blind?

Obaaderemi2:
And if you've followed Nigeria's history, then I'm surprised you find it interesting that these backward people have a lot of influence in Nigeria. They were tactically imposed by the British. Politics in most cases is a game of numbers and the census of 1952/53 did lasting damage to Nigeria as we know it. Correcting that anomaly has been an uphill task for those who see the "status quo" as a problem. The British watered down admission requirements to the military so as to favour the north, among other things they did to plant the north firmly in a rulership position.

^^^
More excuses and redundant history lessons. Nothing new here - this is old stuff that has been said again and again for 60 years.

The real issue still remains: how can those you have characterized as serfs and retrogrades continue to influence and dominate so called progressives for nearly two thirds of a century? For this to persist for so long means somebody is not being honest with himself.

Obaaderemi2:
And there are always fifth columnists even among the Southerners to maintain these anomaly. But that is not to say a lot of ground has not been won.

^^^


Finally. Your first sentence shows you are at least willing to address the real issues - there is hope for you yet. But there is still work to be done. As for your second sentence...do tell, what is this ground that has been won?

Obaaderemi2:

If you agreed northern Nigeria elite was out of the equation until Buhari came back in 2015, then I consider you an "inadvertently" honest man for buttressing my point that the northern influence which has been there since the British left had largely and gradually(emphasis on gradually) been whittled down. From 1999 to 2023 is a period of 24 years. You might not realize that for 14 years out of 24, Southerners were in power. And yes, the interests of Southerners were promoted in many areas from business to education to infrastructure.

^^^
For you to persist with your assertions about the nominally independent exercise of power by proteges..."Southern" proteges of the real owners of Nigeria - this proves beyond all doubt that this discussion is far, far above your pay grade. I made a comment earlier about "control" and you clearly did not understand its significance. No point going any further.

Obaaderemi2:
Indeed! Remember I told you if facts landed on your nose you still wouldn't recognize it.

^^^
Why this fixation with my nose?

Obaaderemi2:
Let me give you the example of Lagos. In 1979, jakande an Awo boy in an attempt to bring transportational progress to Lagos, a southern city, signed a contract to build a metroline. The north wasn't comfortable with it. Through their son Buhari, they scuttled the plan.( I sincerely hope you wouldn't ask for historical reference on this )

^^^


I see.

Jakande's metroline for Lagos has finally materialized after 40 years, despite being torpedoed initially by Buhari in his first coming.

Meanwhile...the Kano-Marafi railroad was flagged off in 2021 by...you guessed it, Mr. Buhari himself. You know it will not be torpedoed by anyone and it will NOT take 40 years to complete. See the difference?

Obaaderemi2:
Like you said, the north is going to hell and is adamant in dragging the rest of you along. Today!,, Lagos is getting or to be more precise, has gotten it's metroline. If you are going to hell, keep going but it's going to be hard to drag everyone along.

^^^
You are losing the argument and getting emotional. Who is "you"?

Obaaderemi2:
Another way in which the status quo has changed is in the issue of security. The Southwest governors formed their own security outfit as a resounding message and warning to the Fulani thugs that their excesses would no longer be ignored. It's a small step but a giant leap from how it used to be. Gradually such ideas would grow stronger.

^^^
Gradualism is a balm for troubled souls.

Earlier on, I gave you just three (and there are many others) examples of how your constitution - and all the contradictions, inequity and inequality contained therein - has remained largely intact since the dawn of the 4th Republic. No meaningful, significant changes to that absolutely critical document on the things that really matter, despite 14 years of a "Southern" grip on power. Your consolation however, is that Lagos has built a metroline and Southwest governors have formed their own security outfit. Very little, very late.

Obaaderemi2:
You might not know much about the history of the yorubas with the Fulanis but I can educate you about it that we've always had problems with them after the ilorin affair. Yorubas would have been speaking hausa today as a general language if the armies of the yorubas had not stopped the Fulanis dead in the 19th century in their quest to take over the whole of what is known as southern Nigeria today.( I will give you historical reference on this on request. )

^^^
The "ilorin affair"?

Strange choice of words for overwhelmingly clear evidence of Fulani military and political conquest of Yoruba territory that persists to this day.

Obaaderemi2:

If you have not refuted it, then it's no longer an issue of interest to me. I've pointed you in a particular direction, if you it interests you then find more material on it.

^^^


The one and only time your unsolicited history lessons (with credible references this time, please!) would have come in useful, and you could not deliver. What a shame.

Obaaderemi2:
Do you want to argue the fact that the South is adroit, competent, viable, more progressive when compared to the north? So why does the north have so much influence in Nigeria's affair? I guess that's your argument. This is something I've answered several times already. But I guess people of a mischievous bend will just keep repeating the same question in a bid to win an argument. That's the true meaning of utter nonsense, my aboki.

^^^


Here we go again...

Obaaderemi2:
The problem for you is that the north is in hell already. The sweet thing is that the rest of us are not ready to follow them there. That's why we educate our children, that's why we embrace birth control, why we build businesses, that's why we invest in sports and entertainment, that's why we frown on crime and killings, that's why we fought for democracy, that's why we create platforms like nairaland where we can talk and encourage one another. That's not to say we don't have our bad eggs and fifth columnists but we are no longer where we used to be.

^^^



Not for the first time I ask, who is "you"?
And "we"?
And "us"?

Obaaderemi2:
And lastly, that's why I'm stringing you on. I may choose to stop replying you but I don't know who is reading and might be saved from the crass pessimism your type try to spread. Good morning. I really took my time too.

^^^


You seem to be getting very emotional about this back and forth. There's no need to threaten to stop the game, take your ball and head home. It isn't anything personal.

I'm not spreading crass pessimism. I just challenged some of your points.

That's all.

Fujiyama:


^^^
You haven't added any new information. And yes I really took my time...to set you straight. Whether you agree to be set straight is entirely up to you.

Nobody is arguing against the evidence that Northern Nigeria is far behind. Nobody is! The question I have asked - and you have no answer to - is this: how can those who claim to be sighted agree to be led by those they deride as blind?



^^^
More excuses and redundant history lessons. Nothing new here - this is old stuff that has been said again and again for 60 years.

The real issue still remains: how can those you have characterized as serfs and retrogrades continue to influence and dominate so called progressives for nearly two thirds of a century? For this to persist for so long means somebody is not being honest with himself.



^^^


Finally. Your first sentence shows you are at least willing to address the real issues - there is hope for you yet. But there is still work to be done. As for your second sentence...do tell, what is this ground that has been won?



^^^
For you to persist with your assertions about the nominally independent exercise of power by proteges..."Southern" proteges of the real owners of Nigeria - this proves beyond all doubt that this discussion is far, far above your pay grade. I made a comment earlier about "control" and you clearly did not understand its significance. No point going any further.



^^^
Why this fixation with my nose?



^^^


I see.

Jakande's metroline for Lagos has finally materialized after 40 years, despite being torpedoed initially by Buhari in his first coming.

Meanwhile...the Kano-Marafi railroad was flagged off in 2021 by...you guessed it, Mr. Buhari himself. You know it will not be torpedoed by anyone and it will NOT take 40 years to complete. See the difference?



^^^
You are losing the argument and getting emotional. Who is "you"?



^^^
Gradualism is a balm for troubled souls.

Earlier on, I gave you just three (and there are many others) examples of how your constitution - and all the contradictions, inequity and inequality contained therein - has remained largely intact since the dawn of the 4th Republic. No meaningful, significant changes to that absolutely critical document on the things that really matter, despite 14 years of a "Southern" grip on power. Your consolation however, is that Lagos has built a metroline and Southwest governors have formed their own security outfit. Very little, very late.



^^^
The "ilorin affair"?

Strange choice of words for overwhelmingly clear evidence of Fulani military and political conquest of Yoruba territory that persists to this day.



^^^


The one and only time your unsolicited history lessons (with credible references this time, please!) would have come in useful, and you could not deliver. What a shame.




^^^


Here we go again...



^^^



Not for the first time I ask, who is "you"?
And "we"?
And "us"?




^^^


You seem to be getting very emotional about this back and forth. There's no need to threaten to stop the game, take your ball and head home. It isn't anything personal.

I'm not spreading crass pessimism. I just challenged some of your points.

That's all.

Hahahahahaha, ye.
I am Even baying with laughter as i...... .... type. Sorry, pardon my rude attitude.

It took me awhile to remember who you are and what the conversation was about. Then I took the liberty to check when I posted last on the topic. Fvcking January 25! Almost two weeks ago. And I checked again to see if the person quoting me had been on nairaland since then and saw that you have been here everyday since January 25 writing Epistles left and right.

Someone just woke up from a coma.
I've moved on. Not interested anymore so didn't even bother reading.

baralatie:

How old was bianca when ojukwu started to date her

3,