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Council Of State Okays Rejig Of Security System . by koruji(m): 1:47am On Sep 07, 2011 |
As always this obviously makes them feel like they are doing something useful, but the fact is that Nigeria is still in denial. Nothing short of fundamental changes to the structure and operation of this mess called Nigeria is going to solve our problems. Quote: "National Security Adviser, Gen. Owoye Andrew Azazi, who briefed the meeting said that the issue of terrorism has not been brought under control because Nigeria was not prepared until now to tackle the menace of terrorism at the current level as[b] it was alien to the country[/b]." Terrorism was alien to the country until now? What were all those BH attacks up north, Jos Inferno, ND militants? Thoughtful leaders would have known that the U.N. kind is what you prevent, not what you wait for to start singing about the "menace of terrorism". Nothing will be achieved by assembling the same eggheads that have run down the country for a useless "peacock show" of feathers. http://www.ngrguardiannews.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=60276:council-of-state-okays-rejig-of-security-system-&catid=1:national&Itemid=559 |
Re: Council Of State Okays Rejig Of Security System . by Beaf: 2:07am On Sep 07, 2011 |
koruji: It is extremely foolish and wicked to call the militancy in the ND terrorism. We can only trust fellow Nigerians to do such when the likes of the US, the UK, France, Germany etc have staunchly refused to do so. Rather, during the insurgency, Hilary Clinton made the loud claim that the Niger Delta was like occupied territory, a people kept in bondage by the rest of Nigeria. Nigerians hate each other, so we do not think deeply before making very odd and careless statements. |
Re: Council Of State Okays Rejig Of Security System . by koruji(m): 2:30am On Sep 07, 2011 |
Although I understand where you are coming from these acts all involve the use of terror, and thus terrorism. Reasons behind such acts may all be mixed up with legitimate demands, but in the end the use of terror is terrorism. What are you going to call the 50th Anniversary bombing of Abuja - terrorism certainly. You may argue that it wasn't carried out by MEND, but what about the bombing of the governors' meeting and the bombing of GEJ's house, etc? Terrorism pure and simple. I will always support the fundamental rights behind the MEND struggle, but the use of terrorist means is a big no-no - particularly when you stop bombing pipelines and start planting bombs against civilians, kidnapping and the like. Legitimate-turned-terrorist is the way I characterize what happened in the Niger Delta. A government that would address all the issues behind such acts cannot but see them for what they are - terrorism. Now, those eventual terrorist acts in the ND were founded on legitimate demands and can thus be resolved once the wrongs are righted. BH terrorism has no legitimate reason at its foundation, as such the approach to dealing with it must be different. Rebel movements and warring parties always distinguish between legitimate acts of war and terror, but once the line is crossed the involved party becomes guilty of terrorism. Beaf: |
Re: Council Of State Okays Rejig Of Security System . by Beaf: 2:42am On Sep 07, 2011 |
^ Like I said, it is only the evil in the average Nigerian that can cause a person to mention the Niger Delta struggle and boko haram in one breath. It is extremely insulting. The Nigerian govt itself has never ever used the term, terrorism to describe the ND struggle, those horrible words tumble out of the mouths of the uncaring instead. When our peaceful representatives were being killed like dogs on the orders of Shell, I'm sure it all looked nice and sweet. Again, it is foreigners that see the truth about Nigeria and speak it in unwavering terms. Most Nigerians just tell convenient lies that make blood cheap. |
Re: Council Of State Okays Rejig Of Security System . by Beaf: 2:47am On Sep 07, 2011 |
I'm sure if we were discussing OPC and the June 12 struggle you wouldn't use the word, terrorism. Ask yourself why. |
Re: Council Of State Okays Rejig Of Security System . by Kobojunkie: 2:48am On Sep 07, 2011 |
How many times have our security forces been RE-JIGGED in the last 6 months alone? It almost sounds like that is about the ONLY strategy our government knows to attempt, each time another bomb goes off. For pete's sake, no be the same dem RE-JIG in March/April/May and now again |
Re: Council Of State Okays Rejig Of Security System . by Beaf: 2:59am On Sep 07, 2011 |
Kobojunkie: Sir, would you be so kind to take up the challenge and provide links to support your re-jig claims? Or will the truth defeat you as usual? @topic There's going to be a remaking of aspects of our security services, from training to technology, to a new national database. It will take time, but its never too late. There is a lot that needs to be done in what is a horribly daunting task, considering the type of police force we have. |
Re: Council Of State Okays Rejig Of Security System . by koruji(m): 3:56am On Sep 07, 2011 |
Would you please point me to the terrorist acts committed by OPC? Beaf: |
Re: Council Of State Okays Rejig Of Security System . by koruji(m): 4:11am On Sep 07, 2011 |
This is a reason why there will never be a solution to Nigeria's problems - the West, East, North & South will each call the same problem different names depending on which side they belong. When MEND blows up pipelines in protest that may be condoned as acts of rebellion, but when they start planting car boms that can and has killed innocent civilians that is an act of terrorism. If you don't see how struggles, rebellions or even wars can diverge from their underlying legitimate basis into terrorism that is your problem. The fact is that MEND crossed the threshold many times, including the Abuja bombing - an act that is obviously making it difficult for GEJ to treat BH as they deserve. What terrorism is: “Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those violent acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for a religious, political or ideological goal, and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants (civilians). Some definitions now exclude acts of state terrorism and some also include acts of unlawful violence and war. The use of similar tactics by criminal organizations for protection rackets or to enforce a code of silence is usually not labeled terrorism though these same actions may be labeled terrorism when done by a politically motivated group.” And yes, government can visit terrorism on citizens and are probably the biggest cuprits across the world. This must be clear in the mind of anyone seeking a solution to such acts - something to be clearly abhored and adequate solutions fitting the source of the problem implemented without delay. Beaf: |
Re: Council Of State Okays Rejig Of Security System . by efisher(m): 4:32am On Sep 07, 2011 |
@Koruji, I agree with your argument here. The ND militants crossed the line when they started attacking people rather than pipelines (towards the latter part of the struggle). It may have been as a result of their frustration but it was wrong all the same. On your earlier point, our government is known to be more reactive than proactive. I will even prefer to say we are not even as "reactive" as we should be! We adopt a "corrective" approach to everything. Not only do we wait till the problem is fully mature, we take steps only after the damage has been completely done. Sometimes, we even take the wrong medicine for the illness. It tells us that if Cameroon or Benin Republic decides to invade us tomorrow, they would have succeeded in wiping out a whole town before we start fighting back. Our security agencies and indeed the entire government lack insight and foresight. They do not know the meaning of "simulation" or "creating scenarios". Something the Americans are masters at. |
Re: Council Of State Okays Rejig Of Security System . by Beaf: 4:45am On Sep 07, 2011 |
koruji: Something told me you wouldn't see them in the same light as you see other groups. I do not call them terrorists, but by your definition, you should. What is the difference between the ND militants and OPC? Both have guns and both have used them in situations where lives were lost. So how come OPC isn't terrorist to you? Doesn't OPC create fear? Doesn't your description below fit OPC? Ain't they political and ideological? Don't they kill people? koruji: What terrorism is: “Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those violent acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for a religious, political or ideological goal, and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants (civilians). Some definitions now exclude acts of state terrorism and some also include acts of unlawful violence and war. The use of similar tactics by criminal organizations for protection rackets or to enforce a code of silence is usually not labeled terrorism though these same actions may be labeled terrorism when done by a politically motivated group.” Words are thing to be used with care. Not even the FG has declared ND militants to be terrorists, we only hear that from NL pundits. |
Re: Council Of State Okays Rejig Of Security System . by koruji(m): 5:09am On Sep 07, 2011 |
Perhaps you are thinking that I see the ND struggle as terrorism. Nothing can be farther from the truth, and I thought that was clear from my replies. ND militants have a legitimate basis for their rebellion, however many of their acts increasingly crossed into terrorism territory. OPC does not even come close to being a rebel organization and even referring to OPC as militant is a little bit of an exagerration - the capability to quickly become militant is there however, and frankly the way Nigeria is going I hope they get ready. However, that is not an endorsement of any acts of terrorism - which is something that so far cannot be identified with OPC. Although it is common to label some groups terrorists - only a few such groups actually claim to be terrorists. As such, it is not the organization or the struggle per se that makes a terrorist, but the act of terrorism. The direction the ND militants were going can be compared to the Basque separatists of Spain or the IRA in Northern Ireland. Beaf: |
Re: Council Of State Okays Rejig Of Security System . by efisher(m): 5:16am On Sep 07, 2011 |
@Koruji, you took your own bullet! You are obviously from the SW and would see OPC in a different light from others. That should explain Beaf's argument that MEND is also not a terrorist group. |
Re: Council Of State Okays Rejig Of Security System . by Beaf: 5:27am On Sep 07, 2011 |
efisher: The bolded explains it all. There is absolutely no reason for double standards when it comes to name-calling and labelling. koruji: . . .Except that both the British and the Spanish have glaringly failed to label ND militants as terrorists like you have. That shows a lot about what Nigerians think of each other simply because they belong in different ethnic groups. I find it difficult to understand your claims of mildness are concerning OPC. That group has taken more Nigerian lives than any other, and their battles are usually against other ethnic groups whom they have slaughtered; from the Hausa's in Ketu to Ijaws in Ajegunle etc etc. So get out your paint brush and tar them as well to ensure that your claims don't sound sectional. |
Re: Council Of State Okays Rejig Of Security System . by Nobody: 6:27am On Sep 07, 2011 |
the same beaf that disowned henry okah, his onetime hero and the most visible face of mend as a terrorist is doing his usual about turn because bombing is no longer in fashion i wonder what the victims of atlas cove will have to say about beaf's definition of MEND. the moment any kind of freedom /change movement resorts to violence, it is only a short while before they become little more than a criminal enterprise - be they the FARC, IRA, MEND , ETA or anyone else. every other day, we are hearing of former militants behaving like what they are in training abroad - thugs. and those are just the foot soldiers of mend. the word terrorist is even too kind. for the most part, MEND was a motley assortment of organizations and groups with no clear agenda bound only by emails by Jomo Gbomo taking credit for their wanton acts of violence. |
Re: Council Of State Okays Rejig Of Security System . by sheriffman(m): 8:57am On Sep 07, 2011 |
BEAF take it or leave it, MEND is now seen as a terorist organisation.They crossed the line when they bombed Abj on oct 1st.BH is also a terorist org.As for OPC it will be difficult to prove they are terrorists.Having guns and killing does not confirm that status on them. |
Re: Council Of State Okays Rejig Of Security System . by Bawss1(m): 11:16am On Sep 07, 2011 |
OT but had to add this. Boko Haram, Niger Delta Militants = Terrorists. No amount of spin and spell will change that image. Deal with it. |
Re: Council Of State Okays Rejig Of Security System . by koruji(m): 1:16pm On Sep 07, 2011 |
The British and Spanish are not yardsticks for defining what is terrorism - and frankly what you are referring to was before MEND crossed the dividing line from legitimate rebellion to acts of terrorism. Nobody referred to ND militants violence as acts of terrorism until they crossed that line - so you have to face reality here. I hope you are not suggesting that everything the ND militants did in the cause of their struggle, even the planting & explosion of bombs on innocent civilians, is okay. Your references to violence involving OPC as acts of terrorism is obviously untenable. Terrorism is defined in one of my previous messages. It gives you a good guideline between acts of terrorism and other acts of violence. Of course, I'll prefer not to have any kind of acts of violence, but this is a babaric world we live in. Beaf: |
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