noetic16:

^^^

So you see, your belief is from knowledge

zataxs:

[img]http://freethoughtkampala.files./2011/09/sophisticatedreligion.jpg[/img]

jayriginal:

I do not know of any such thing. Therefore, I do not believe. My non belief has no effect on whether such a thing exists.
However, Mazaje has had a revelation details of which he gave here. As it is a subjective revelation, it is proof only for himself and not for others.

zataxs:

[img]http://freethoughtkampala.files./2011/09/sophisticatedreligion.jpg[/img]

noetic16:

You miss the point completely.

noetic16:

If I believe in Shiva or leprechauns, I would consider it a measure of competence to tell you the basis of my belief.

noetic16:

IF I dont believe in Shiva or leprechauns, I would also consider it a measure of competence to tell you the basis of my disbelief.

noetic16:

If however I have no idea as to who Shiva or leprechauns is, then I would neither believe nor disbelieve.

noetic16:

By disbelieving in the plausibility of the material world being a product of super intelligence, you are postulating a presumably informed opinion. why are you not neutral? if you disbelieve in something, there must be cogent reasons for such.

noetic16:

and u think that its just okay to say that FSM is ultimate? . . . . . .I am disappointed. . . . .this is a new low for u.

noetic16:

I already answered your question. God is omnipotent, but He aint a robot. This implies that He has a mind of his own to do things according to His plans. Are u able to see the bigger picture? what if there is a better life awaiting the hospitalised person? what do u know of the supernatural?

noetic16:

and please stop evading my question ,  . . .if you dont walk from lagos to kano, does this mean you are disabled?
If God chooses not to heal a sick person, does this mean He is not omnipotent?

noetic16:

ridiculously LAME. stop making assertions you are ignorant of. The truth is you know next to nothing about God or the bible. Do some reading, get informed and then come back for a debate.

. . . . . okay

Martian:

All in my head? I don't know about that.
I was in Dar es Salam for a Managed Servces negotiation two weeks ago.
One night I woke up from a dream. In the dream a friend of mine who I had not seen or heard from for 16 years was sitting beside me. He simply said, Long, time, how have you been, we should hook up soon.
I last saw or thought of this fellow when we last saw back in secondary school. So I never think of him. He is entirely outside my worldview.
I got up because it was close to morning and I went online on my laptop.
The first message that fell into my mailbox was from that Friend I had just seen in the dream. It simply said, Long time, how hove you been, we should hook up soon.
I got back to Lagos and my brothers told me that he had visited my house that very day.
I know very well that it is not all in my head because since I was a child there is nothing significant that happens around me which I do not see in a dream some days or weeks in advance.

@Deepsight.
This happened in 2010 right?
You said you last saw the guy 16 years ago and didn't have any contact whatsoever with him.  If you haven't really had any contact with him in 16 years, that means you gave him your email address in 1994? That means you had an email address in high school in the early nineties or someone just decided to give him your email and where you live. If your story is real you have some strange people around you that will just give up your email and home address without asking you! Or the story is just the product of the infinite mind at work.

zataxs:

@Martin the video is pretty lame, to be honest. Reminds me of the oracle of delphi

zataxs:

mazaje:

This picture is worth more than a thousand words. . . .

noetic16: To be fair, Dawkins book has been relatively boring, hence I have been unable to finish it up.

noetic16:
Nonetheless, the arguments remain valid. There is insufficient evidence, logic or argument to dispute the notion that the material world which we live in could have kicked off without a designer who is super-intelligent.

noetic16:
It is inconceivable that the world would have sprung up by chance.

noetic16:
Typical examples abound . . . cars, jets, ships, tv sets, buildings et all . . .these are intelligent designs that were conceived by more-intelligent beings (in this case man). Therefore, how can we then dismiss the fact that man, the planets, solar system, ecosystem, animals, air, oxygen gasses and many more could not have been created or conceived by a more intelligent being (this time God).

noetic16:
I remain baffled at the illogicality of the atheist argument.

thehomer:

What a lame excuse. You set out to show that the book is simply full of wrong yet you abandon the task halfway? Isn't this laziness?

This is a shift of the burden of proof. You actually need to show that the world is due to a designer that is super intelligent rather than saying someone else should prove you wrong otherwise you're right.

This is also fallacious to think that if you cannot conceive of something, it therefore couldn't have happened.

The man made objects are poor examples because they differ significantly from the universe or the sun so you've simply presented a bad analogy.

Of course you remain baffled but not due to the atheist argument being illogical, but due to your inability to comprehend what they're actually saying.

noetic16:

Quite idiotic.

There is nothing darwin mentioned that has not been mentioned previously by atheists and subsequently debunked. I actually regret buying the book cos I thought it was going to be sensational like a John Grisham novel. Darwin, just like you, is intellectually incapable of emprically, exhaustively and convincingly prove that Jehovah God does not exist.

noetic16:
Very silly. Do electronic items have a manufacturer? how many gadgets (ipads, laptops, fridges) do not have a designer?

noetic16:
The issue here is your living in denial and lack of imagination.

noetic16:
You are not intelligent at all . How are these objects different from the universe? please explain . . .

noetic16:
You come across as not-educated

thehomer:

What a demented response.
Who wrote The God Delusion? Darwin? Have you been drinking again? If you think you can debunk them, why don't you actually do that after reading the book rather than just shouting? Is your laziness so much that you cannot finish reading the book and you cannot think up rebuttals to the parts you've read?

What a dullard. The universe isn't man-made unlike the devices you're talking about.

Why don't you actually address your fallacious statement?

Do you think you're intelligent with your childish attempts at a rebuttal?
The universe wasn't made by humans while those items were? You're supposed to show that the universe was actually created. Instead, you're just making poor analogies.

You come across as deeply ignorant and at the same time, full of hubris.

noetic16:

This is getting boring. Your response is quite DUMB. I finished the book, Darwin (your god) messed up. He is an intellectual light weight, look at how he bundled up the whole arguments especially the Boeing argument. did that make sense to you? idiot.

noetic16:
What a big FOOL. The universe and the devices in question are products of intelligence that is greater than them. None of these human devices was made by a baby, simply because babies do not have such intelligence. is this rocket science? are you so dumb? If as humans we can make intelligent devices, does your common sense not preach that we as intelligent beings (including our universe) is a product of a more intelligent being? do you have a brain at all?

noetic16:
yawns loudly

noetic16:
Get this once and for all. The universe is a complex intelligent entity. It is absolutely STUPID, inconceivable and intellectually awkward to assert that it sprung into existence by chance. It is either you lack basic education or you are intentionally DUMB.

noetic16:
I have repeatedly exposed and educated your ignorance. You should show some gratitude.