Please l need u to advice me. Am confused right now. Its about my fiancée. Tell me if u were in my shoes what will you do. She has always given excuses of not going to church. “l cant wear jeans”. “I don’t have a good native”. “l don’t like your church”. (I attend daystar,redeem,winners or coza depending on my location). But on July 1st, she said d worst thing av ever heard. She said she will never follow me to any church because her mum is a Jehovah witness & she believes in the religion. her dad is a regular christian.

She cried & later apologized that she said it out of anger. Av dated Moslems girls dat l took to church. Am not a pastor or a perfect Christian neither am l against Jehovah witness. Am just so amazed at her outburst. Guess l made a big mistake of not knowing dat witnesses don’t marry outsiders. Now l know better

She has agreed to go to church but have not up till now., d fact is for a healthy relationship, couples are meant to play, pray, plan & think together. They also go to church together. Wedding is for a day but marriage is for a life time. Even if my wedding is not classical, my marriage must be blissful. That journey starts from now


From my research witnesses don’t believe in the trinity, celebrate Christmas, celebrate birthdays, celebrate easter, run for political office, donate blood, recite the pledge/national anthem, read the regular bible, believe in the resurrection, relate with other Christians and don’t attend other churches. Tell me what kind of religion is that. Its so amazing and its so painful that the woman l desire to marry has such beliefs. I av a list of 141 things Jehovah witnesses cant do.

Opinions of a father should be respected. her dad is not a witness so why cant she understand my stand. I don’t intend to have a court wedding. That is not what l envisioned for myself. Her two sisters are not members of Jehovah witness.

Some months ago, l saw a text on her phone “confiding in her friend that she is engaged with someone that is not a witness and needs advice”. Can u imagine. I confronted her and she said she was sorry. I cried in private that same day.

we both discussed it recently and av agreed for a court wedding but l will not accept any Jehovah witness minister or pastor joining us together. Its so sad that she doesn’t respect her dad’s religion. I don’t understand why people that claim to be Christians cant attend a church wedding service for just two hours. l’ve attended many Moslem weddings(nikkah) in the past and I also av Moslem friends that attend church weddings



After a woman gets married, she changes her name to her husbands own. So that woman should be ready to be committed to her husband 100%. Otherwise its better for that woman to marry someone that can tolerate & endure her. any woman that is not ready to massage a man’s ego, to submit to a man shld rather not get married. wedding is for a day and marriage is for a life-time. And marriage is not to be endured but enjoyed. So tell me how will we experience a blissful marriage and blessings of matrimony if after getting married, she refuses to follow me to church. I av friends, brothers and relatives that are married. Their wives(Christians) even had to change church and start attending their husband’s church. Its so sad & painful. I will go for counseling in five different churches and hear their advice. I also need your own advice. God bless you abundantly. I rest my case

You sound like a very intelligent guy who has done his homework.

You said you both agreed to have a court wedding, I don't think it is wise to go into a marriage without you BOTH making a firm decision about this as it will affect practically every aspect of your life and that of your future children. JW is especially a serious case as you yourself have found out.

You must find some way to get through to her, and show her the error of her beliefs. If she loves you she will listen to you, and be willing to change for the sake of your relationship. And if she is not willing to listen or change with time and much pleading - then oga, you must move on. Like you said "marriage is to be enjoyed, not endured" and is for a lifetime. Don't head into it with unresolved problems - they will only grow bigger and lead to more issues.

I wish you well.

thank you jesoul. guess her emotional attachment to her mum is because her dad is a polygamist. even her dad disapproves JW, guess its better to move on. as u said unresolved issues will only grow bigger

This is serious.@poster,are you really sure she is the will of God for your life? If you are not sure, instead of consulting various churches for advice, get on your knee and ask God to reveal to you the person,he wants you to marry. It seems you do not trust one another,none of you is sure of something tangible that you can hold on as to why you want to marry. It is so sad. Please, and please take it easy with her,if you want to let go,do it with peace and good understanding. If you still want to marry her, then you need to take your time,before finally proceeding to the altar. God bless you. God2man.

The beauty of Christianity.
These are the sorts of reasons why courts should be free of religious influence.

maxpro-xl:

Please l need u to advice me. Am confused right now. Its about my fiancée. Tell me if u were in my shoes what will you do. She has always given excuses of not going to church. “l cant wear jeans”. “I don’t have a good native”. “l don’t like your church”. (I attend daystar,redeem,winners or coza depending on my location). But on July 1st, she said d worst thing av ever heard. She said she will never follow me to any church because her mum is a Jehovah witness & she believes in the religion. her dad is a regular christian.

She cried & later apologized that she said it out of anger. Av dated Moslems girls dat l took to church. Am not a pastor or a perfect Christian neither am l against Jehovah witness. Am just so amazed at her outburst. Guess l made a big mistake of not knowing dat witnesses don’t marry outsiders. Now l know better

She has agreed to go to church but have not up till now., d fact is for a healthy relationship, couples are meant to play, pray, plan & think together. They also go to church together. Wedding is for a day but marriage is for a life time. Even if my wedding is not classical, my marriage must be blissful. That journey starts from now


From my research witnesses don’t believe in the trinity, celebrate Christmas, celebrate birthdays, celebrate easter, run for political office, donate blood, recite the pledge/national anthem, read the regular bible, believe in the resurrection, relate with other Christians and don’t attend other churches. Tell me what kind of religion is that. Its so amazing and its so painful that the woman l desire to marry has such beliefs. I av a list of 141 things Jehovah witnesses cant do.

Opinions of a father should be respected. her dad is not a witness so why cant she understand my stand. I don’t intend to have a court wedding. That is not what l envisioned for myself. Her two sisters are not members of Jehovah witness.

Some months ago, l saw a text on her phone “confiding in her friend that she is engaged with someone that is not a witness and needs advice”. Can u imagine. I confronted her and she said she was sorry. I cried in private that same day.

we both discussed it recently and av agreed for a court wedding but l will not accept any Jehovah witness minister or pastor joining us together. Its so sad that she doesn’t respect her dad’s religion. I don’t understand why people that claim to be Christians cant attend a church wedding service for just two hours. l’ve attended many Moslem weddings(nikkah) in the past and I also av Moslem friends that attend church weddings



After a woman gets married, she changes her name to her husbands own. So that woman should be ready to be committed to her husband 100%. Otherwise its better for that woman to marry someone that can tolerate & endure her. any woman that is not ready to massage a man’s ego, to submit to a man shld rather not get married. wedding is for a day and marriage is for a life-time. And marriage is not to be endured but enjoyed. So tell me how will we experience a blissful marriage and blessings of matrimony if after getting married, she refuses to follow me to church. I av friends, brothers and relatives that are married. Their wives(Christians) even had to change church and start attending their husband’s church. Its so sad & painful. I will go for counseling in five different churches and hear their advice. I also need your own advice. God bless you abundantly. I rest my case

You sound like a sexist and a control freak.
Is it appropriate for you to invade her privacy the way you did? You're not yet married you know and even if you were married, I think it is questionable unless both of you have some sort of agreement that cuts both ways.
Why can't you attend her own church? If she's already changing her name when she gets married, why not do something like attend her church? And for some reason, you feel that your ego needs to be massaged and she should submit why don't you submit?
If she doesn't go to church, will it bother you so much?

thehomer:

The beauty of Christianity.
These are the sorts of reasons why courts should be free of religious influence.

You sound like a sexist and a control freak.
Is it appropriate for you to invade her privacy the way you did? You're not yet married you know and even if you were married, I think it is questionable unless both of you have some sort of agreement that cuts both ways.
Why can't you attend her own church? If she's already changing her name when she gets married, why not do something like attend her church? And for some reason, you feel that your ego needs to be massaged and she should submit why don't you submit?
If she doesn't go to church, will it bother you so much?

  Hmmm . . . what is wrong with a man wanting to ensure unity & harmony in his future home?

The ramifications of their predicament will affect much more than just 'whether or not she attends church with him' - it will affect the social, financial, mental, spiritual and emotional aspects of their relationship, not to mention that of their future children. It not just about her 'submitting' to his desire - afterall, a couple has come together and agree before a relationship can move forward. Beyond him just compromising and going to her 'church' (which btw is not possible, you are aware of what JW believe right?), her beliefs will alienate them from his family (even part of her family), friends, social structure etc . . .  JWs beliefs by definition are extremely alienating and downright cultish -

maxpro-xl:
From my research witnesses don’t believe in the trinity, celebrate Christmas, celebrate birthdays, celebrate easter, run for political office, donate blood, recite the pledge/national anthem, read the regular bible, believe in the resurrection, relate with other Christians and don’t attend other churches. Tell me what kind of religion is that. Its so amazing and its so painful that the woman l desire to marry has such beliefs. I av a list of 141 things Jehovah witnesses cant do.

maxpro-xl:

thank you jesoul. guess her emotional attachment to her mum is because her dad is a polygamist. even her dad disapproves JW, guess its better to move on. as u said unresolved issues will only grow bigger

At the same time my dear don't give up too easily. If you really love her (and she loves you in return), do your best to find a way before giving up - and hard to say, but it inevitably has to involve her 'leaving' the JW church. Rational, everyday people cannot peacefully co-exist with the radical beliefs of the JWs.

JeSoul:

  Hmmm . . . what is wrong with a man wanting to ensure unity & harmony in his future home?

Nothing wrong with that as an end product but the process is what is in question here.

JeSoul:

The ramifications of their predicament will affect much more than just 'whether or not she attends church with him' - it will affect the social, financial, mental, spiritual and emotional aspects of their relationship, not to mention that of their future children. It not just about her 'submitting' to his desire - afterall, a couple has come together and agree before a relationship can move forward. Beyond him just compromising and going to her 'church' (which btw is not possible, you are aware of what JW believe right?), her beliefs will alienate them from his family (even part of her family), friends, social structure etc . . .  JWs beliefs by definition are extremely alienating and downright cultish -

She is already compromising by giving up her surname, probably moving to his house or geographic location etc.
Yes I'm aware of what Jehovah's witnesses believe though I just consider it as outlandish as other religious beliefs. Though, if she doesn't want to go to his church, then he shouldn't harp on about it. People of very different religious traditions do get along so he should suck it up and accept that she goes to a different church.
One person's cult is another's religion. The main difference it seems is based on the number adherents.

JeSoul:

  At the same time my dear don't give up too easily. If you really love her (and she loves you in return), do your best to find a way before giving up - and hard to say, but it inevitably has to involve her 'leaving' the JW church. Rational, everyday people cannot peacefully co-exist with the radical beliefs of the JWs.

I don't know about you but I have co-existed peacefully with Jehovah's Witnesses in the past and probably would in the future.

thehomer:

She is already compromising by giving up her surname, probably moving to his house or geographic location etc.

You're assuming into evidence 'objects' of compromise that have not been stated . . . some people will call that ojoro 

Yes I'm aware of what Jehovah's witnesses believe though I just consider it as outlandish as other religious beliefs.

And its not about your beliefs homer. The OP is a christian - and that is what matters here. The incompatiblity of his beliefs with hers - not what you or I think they should be.

Though, if she doesn't want to go to his church, then he shouldn't harp on about it. People of very different religious traditions do get along so he should suck it up and accept that she goes to a different church.
One person's cult is another's religion. The main difference it seems is based on the number adherents.

I don't know about you but I have co-existed peacefully with Jehovah's Witnesses in the past and probably would in the future.

You're not being reasonable sir.

Are you married to a JW? This is not about "getting along". We all live, work and play with people of other faiths and beliefs systems. Being married to one is a whole nother issue. You're building a life, family and future together, you have to have the same beliefs, goals etc in order for the marriage to work.

  On both extremes of importance - JWs do not celebrate birthdays or take blood. What happens when their future children (or them for that matter) cannot even celebrate their birthday? or gets hurt and needs a blood transfusion?

Would u rather she's a muslim?

You guys need to talk and agree on certain things.
But decide ahead whats cool by u, if marrying a witness who might stick with JW after marriage is not for u, move on.
I have seen JW that "switched" to their husbands religion/church after marriage.
If your woman aint gona freely persuade herself to switch if thats what your marriage needs, its still early in the day to make up your mind on your choice of partner.

God bless you JESOUL, for "thehomer", you are getting the whole issue wrong. its not about church, court or traditional wedding. wedding is for a day and marraige is for a life time. the issue is about her negative beliefs. CONFLICTING BELIEFS WILL RAISE CONFUSED CHILDREN AND CREATE EMOTIONAL BARRIERS BETWEEN US. let me clarify some sensitive issues. please read carefully.

am a working class single and she just graduated in july 2011 and due for NYSC early 2012. we got engaged in april 2011 and she moved into my house on april 6th. we lived under the same roof(only us, no other person in the flat) for 5-months(April 2011 - August 2011). l lived with my fiancee for 5-months and she never followed me to church for one day. 5-MONTHS MAKES UP 20-SUNDAYS. can u imagine. she left for her parents house on Sept 2nd in ogun state to persuade her mum to accept a church wedding & that her relatives can attend the reception. the mum didnt accept.

its not about the wedding, its about her extreme negative beliefs. l av accepted a court wedding for the sake of love. she called last week crying on phone that she will change. her elder sister(not a JW) also called me that she will change. THE POINT IS I WANT HER TO EXPRESS THAT CHANGE IN ATTITUDE IN HER ACTIONS BEFORE WE GET MARRIED. she doesnt own her liife to any WATCH TOWER ORGANISATION.

THE GOD WE SERVE IS NOT A GOD OF RULES AND REGULATIONS BUT A GOD OF GRACE AND LOVE. l told her that the 1st step is to accept the regular bible then attend church service with me. I LOVE HER SO MUCH AND DONT WANT TO LOOSE HER BUT HOW CAN TWO WORK TOGETHER UNLESS THEY AGREE. AND A WOMAN WILL LEAVE HER FATHER AND MOTHER, CLEAVE TO HER HUSBAND AND THEY WILL BECOME ONE. its so sad & painful but guess its better to move on as JESOUL said; but its just so difficult for me because she's my best friend and closest confidant and all members of my family love her so much. its complicated

141 Things Jehovah's Witnesses Can't Do.
SEE NUMBER 50 - 60 AND NUMBER 70 - 82
1. Belong to another organization or club for the purpose of socializing with nonbelievers
2. Have best friends and activity buddies who are not Jehovah's Witnesses.
3. Associate with people outside their organization when it is not necessary
4. Attend social functions sponsored by their employer unless attendance is required
5. Associate with coworkers after business hours in a social settings
6. Disagree with their organization's rules and code of conduct.
7. Disagree with their organization's doctrines. S
8. Contribute to the Presidential Campaign Fund on their tax return
9. Join the armed forces and defend their country
10. Say the Pledge of Allegiance
11. Salute the flag
12. Vote
13. Run for leadership in their organization
14. Run for leadership in any organization
15. Take a stand for any political issue inside their organization
16. Take a stand on any political or 'worldly' issue outside of their organization
17. Campaign for a political candidate
18. Hold political office
19. Discuss politics
20. Be a union steward or shop steward
21. Actively be involved in a union strike
22. Use a gun for protection against humans
23. Become a police officer if a gun is required
24. Wear military uniforms or clothing associated with war
25. Take yoga classes and practice the discipline of yoga. See Is Yoga For Christians?
26. Smoke tobacco and cigars
27. Work full time selling tobacco and cigars
28. Attend Alcoholics Anonymous
29. Donate blood
30. Have blood transfusions
31. Read books, magazines, publications, and literature from other religions.
32. Buy anything from a church store
33. Buy something at a church garage sale
34. Donate items to a church run store
35. Shop at the Salvation Army
36. Work for the Salvation Army
37. Work for another church
38. Play competitive sports on a school team
39. Play competitive sports professionally
40. Run for class president
41. Become a cheerleader
42. Go to the school prom or school dance.
43. Attend class reunions
44. Be hypnotized
45. Accept Jesus as their mediator, 1 Timothy 2:5. See Mediator
46. Join the Boy Scouts
47. Join the Girl Guides
48. Join the YMCA
49. Serve on jury duty
50. Study psychology, philosophy, sociology, and viewpoints that might shake their faith
51. Attend other Christian churches
52. Attend nondenominational churches
53. Attend non Christian churches
54. Get married in another church
55. Dating non believers is discouraged
56. Casual dating is discouraged
57. Dating someone without the intent of getting married
58. Having sex before marriage
59. Breaking an engagement, separation, and 'unscriptural' divorce may result in disciplinary action
60. Marriage to non believers is not recommended
61. Be gay or lesbian. Homosexuality is not acceptable.
62. Throw rice at a wedding
63. Get divorced unless the reason is adultery
64. Can't remarry unless their ex commits fornication first
65. Toast drinks
66. Buy a raffle ticket
67. Play bingo
68. Gamble
69. Sing any holiday songs
70. Sing the National Anthem.
71. Celebrate Christmas - Why?
72. Celebrate New Years Eve - Why?
73. Celebrate Easter - Why?
74. Celebrate Mother's Day - Why?
75. Celebrate Father's Day - Why?
76. Celebrate birthdays - Why?
77. Celebrate Thanksgiving
78. Celebrate Flag Day
79. Celebrate Veteran's Day
80. Celebrate Independence Day. Why?
81. Celebrate Saint Patrick's Day
82. Celebrate Valentine's Day
83. Celebrate Halloween - Why?
84. Celebrate Hanukkah
85. Accept holiday gifts - Why?
86. Celebrate any holiday except the death of Jesus - Why?
87. Partake in the bread and wine that represents Christ unless they are part of the 144,000
88. Make holiday artwork for school
89. Engage in holiday parties at school
90. Take on a leadership role in school
91. Porneia
92. Do suggestive and immodest dancing in a public place
93. Attend a class, workshop, or seminar, sponsored by another church
94. Attend social events or fund raisers sponsored by another church
95. Use of bad language (curse words) is discouraged
96. Wear blue jeans, shorts, and overly casual clothing at the Kingdom Hall. See Dress Code
97. Wear pants at a Kingdom Hall if you're a woman
98. Wear revealing clothes or skirts that are too short (looked down upon)
99. Wear long hair or facial hair if you're a man (depends on the local customs of the country you live in)
100. Body piercings are discouraged
101. Tattoos are discouraged
102. State or imply that the Watchtower is not run by Jehovah God.
103. Have discussions and express Bible based viewpoints that contradict the organization's beliefs
104. Say anything negative about their organization. JW's must 'speak in agreement' and be 'like-minded'.
105. Consider other religious beliefs as valid and truthful.
106. Acknowledge any prayer spoken by a non believer as valid
107. Take another Jehovah's Witness to court (with exceptions)
108. Wear or own a cross
109. Own any religious picture
110. Own any religious statue
111. Engage in idolatry
112. Believe in miracles (except those found in the Bible) See Miracles
113. Believe in ghosts
114. Witchcraft
115. Black magic
116. White magic
117. Consult with a psychic or become one
118. Study tarot cards, get a reading or give a reading
119. Study numerology or get a reading
120. Dabble in ESP (extrasensory perception), dowsing, or divination
121. Use a tool such as a pendulum to access information from the spiritual realm
122. Attempt to communicate with departed spirits
123. Attend a seance
124. Believe in good luck or say things such as 'Good luck to you'. Why?
125. Believe in anything superstitious
126. Prophesy
127. Speaking in tongues
128. Laying on of hands
129. Energy healing such as Reiki
130. Read their horoscope
131. Study astrology or zodiac signs
132. Combat training, boxing, or martial arts
133. Go to heaven unless they are part of the 144,000 ( 144000 )
134. Worship Jesus as God
135. Idolize any celebrity or love and admire them to excess
136. Women can't be elders
137. Women can't be ministerial servants (assistants to the elders)
138. Divulge secret information to enemies and those not entitled to know. See Theocratic Warfare
139. Greet or talk with disfellowshipped persons (with some exceptions)
140. Associate with disfellowshipped persons except for immediate family living in the same house
141. Keep secrets from the organization. Jehovah's Witnesses report friends and family

maxpro-xl:

God bless you JESOUL, for "thehomer", you are getting the whole issue wrong. its not about church, court or traditional wedding. wedding is for a day and marraige is for a life time. the issue is about her negative beliefs. CONFLICTING BELIEFS WILL RAISE CONFUSED CHILDREN AND CREATE EMOTIONAL BARRIERS BETWEEN US. let me clarify some sensitive issues. please read carefully.

am a working class single and she just graduated in july 2011 and due for NYSC early 2012. we got engaged in april 2011 and she moved into my house on april 6th. we lived under the same roof(only us, no other person in the flat) for 5-months(April 2011 - August 2011). l lived with my fiancee for 5-months and she never followed me to church for one day. 5-MONTHS MAKES UP 20-SUNDAYS. can u imagine. she left for her parents house on Sept 2nd in ogun state to persuade her mum to accept a church wedding & that her relatives can attend the reception. the mum didnt accept.

its not about the wedding, its about her extreme negative beliefs. l av accepted a court wedding for the sake of love. she called last week crying on phone that she will change. her elder sister(not a JW) also called me that she will change. THE POINT IS I WANT HER TO EXPRESS THAT CHANGE IN ATTITUDE IN HER ACTIONS BEFORE WE GET MARRIED. she doesnt own her liife to any WATCH TOWER ORGANISATION.

THE GOD WE SERVE IS NOT A GOD OF RULES AND REGULATIONS BUT A GOD OF GRACE AND LOVE. l told her that the 1st step is to accept the regular bible then attend church service with me. I LOVE HER SO MUCH AND DONT WANT TO LOOSE HER BUT HOW CAN TWO WORK TOGETHER UNLESS THEY AGREE. AND A WOMAN WILL LEAVE HER FATHER AND MOTHER, CLEAVE TO HER HUSBAND AND THEY WILL BECOME ONE. its so sad & painful but guess its better to move on as JESOUL said; but its just so difficult for me because she's my best friend and closest confidant and all members of my family love her so much. its complicated

My brother I really feel for you.

From the way you speak about her and your feelings for her . . . I'll advice you not to give up on her too easily. Pray and continue to talk to her, sometimes all it takes is time and persuation. Maybe you'll need to be physically away or 'seperated' from her for a while to show her you're serious and to also give her the chance to decide for herself if she loves you enough to move forward. You said she already said she'll change, give her a chance to demonstrate it. Its not easy to find someone you call "your best friend & closest confidant", so don't throw it away without a good fight and giving it your best effort. You're the man so you're emotionally stronger - she'll definitely need your help, patience and prayers.

 and by God's grace it shall be well with you.

@Maxpro,
   the spam-bot tagged/blocked your post with the list (and probably suspended your posting rights too?). I can see but others won't be able to. I've sent a msg to the admin to un-tag it.

JeSoul:

My brother I really feel for you.

From the way you speak about her and your feelings for her . . . I'll advice you not to give up on her too easily. Pray and continue to talk to her, sometimes all it takes is time and persuation. Maybe you'll need to be physically away or 'seperated' from her for a while to show her you're serious and to also give her the chance to decide for herself if she loves you enough to move forward. You said she already said she'll change, give her a chance to demonstrate it. Its not easy to find someone you call "your best friend & closest confidant", so don't throw it away without a good fight and giving it your best effort. You're the man so you're emotionally stronger - she'll definitely need your help, patience and prayers.

 and by God's grace it shall be well with you.

What I find extremely disgusting about this advise, is the assumption of "RIGHT". How did you determine that she is in the wrong religion and he is in the right one? What makes you think your views are not extreme? that your religion is not the wrong one? why does she have to change her religion?. The poster exhibited extreme male chauvinism. Your intolerant attitude is not different from the extremism exhibited by islamic fundamentalist. You are blinded by out of date religious zealotry.

@poster, if you really want to be with her, you should meet her half way. It is selfish and egotistical to assume you are absolutely right and she is completely wrong.

ugbo:

What I find extremely disgusting about this advise, is the assumption of "RIGHT". How did you determine that she is in the wrong religion and he is in the right one? What makes you think your views are not extreme? that your religion is not the wrong one? why does she have to change her religion?. The poster exhibited extreme male chauvinism. Your intolerant attitude is not different from the extremism exhibited by islamic fundamentalist. You are blinded by out of date religious zealotry.

@poster, if you really want to be with her, you should meet her half way. It is selfish and egotistical to assume you are absolutely right and she is completely wrong.

The poster is a christian and asked for advice along those lines. If you find christian beliefs 'disgusting' that is your certainly your perogative. Cheers.

JeSoul:

You're assuming into evidence 'objects' of compromise that have not been stated . . . some people will call that ojoro 

That would be so in the rare circumstances where those things that I mentioned don't occur. But in the vast majority of marriages, that is what happens.

JeSoul:

And its not about your beliefs homer. The OP is a christian - and that is what matters here. The incompatiblity of his beliefs with hers - not what you or I think they should be.

And I'm asking him to also put himself in her shoes rather than simply complaining about having everything go his way. He should learn to reach agreements with someone he claims to love.

JeSoul:

You're not being reasonable sir.

Are you married to a JW? This is not about "getting along". We all live, work and play with people of other faiths and beliefs systems. Being married to one is a whole nother issue. You're building a life, family and future together, you have to have the same beliefs, goals etc in order for the marriage to work.

Oh? I'm being unreasonable? Please explain.
So, unless I'm married to a Jehovah's Witness member, I cannot understand this relationship? Aren't they people? People are able to work out their differences under much more disparate situations of e.g language, distance, religion and here we have a relationship with two Christians where the problem seems to hinge on not worshiping God the right way? Not that they're with the wrong God?
With the examples I gave above, they do not necessarily need to have the same beliefs though their goals should be along the same lines which I think according to Christians is to believe in Jesus and go to heaven among the more mundane ones.

JeSoul:

  On both extremes of importance - JWs do not celebrate birthdays or take blood. What happens when their future children (or them for that matter) cannot even celebrate their birthday? or gets hurt and needs a blood transfusion?

They might as well sort that out now before getting married rather than the male simply complaining about his partner. On the blood transfusion issue, that would depend on who is injured.

maxpro-xl:

God bless you JESOUL,  for "thehomer", you are getting the whole issue wrong. its not about church, court or traditional wedding. wedding is for a day and marraige is for a life time. the issue is about her negative beliefs. CONFLICTING BELIEFS WILL RAISE CONFUSED CHILDREN AND CREATE EMOTIONAL BARRIERS BETWEEN US. let me clarify some sensitive issues. please read carefully.

What? I never said it was about where the wedding would be held, but about your religious beliefs which have a lot of things in common.

maxpro-xl:

am a working class single and she just graduated in july 2011 and due for NYSC early 2012. we got engaged in april 2011 and she moved into my house on april 6th. we lived under the same roof(only us, no other person in the flat) for 5-months(April 2011 - August 2011). l lived with my fiancee for 5-months and she never followed me to church for one day. 5-MONTHS MAKES UP 20-SUNDAYS. can u imagine. she left for her parents house on Sept 2nd in ogun state to persuade her mum to accept a church wedding & that her relatives can attend the reception. the mum didnt accept.

Why were you living under the same roof when you're not yet married?
Again I ask why does she have to follow you to your church? Why can't you follow her to hers? You had 20 opportunities to offer to do that but did you? It is a relationship and it cuts both ways. So what if her mum didn't accept? Is it her mum that is getting married? Also as many can testify, parents in law often turn around when their grand children appear on the scene.

maxpro-xl:

its not about the wedding, its about her extreme negative beliefs. l av accepted a court wedding for the sake of love. she called last week crying on phone that she will change. her elder sister(not a JW) also called me that she will change. THE POINT IS I WANT HER TO EXPRESS THAT CHANGE IN ATTITUDE IN HER ACTIONS BEFORE WE GET MARRIED. she doesnt own her liife to any WATCH TOWER ORGANISATION.

Are you talking about her or her particular strain of Christianity? While she doesn't owe her life to the Watchtower Organization, you do not owe your life to Daystar ministries or other similar organization. My point is that you too should be ready to make some concessions. She after all seems to have agreed to marry you to the extent of living with you for 5 months without being married.

maxpro-xl:

THE GOD WE SERVE IS NOT A GOD OF RULES AND REGULATIONS BUT A GOD OF GRACE AND LOVE. l told her that the 1st step is to accept the regular bible then attend church service with me. I LOVE HER SO MUCH AND DONT WANT TO LOOSE HER BUT HOW CAN TWO WORK TOGETHER UNLESS THEY AGREE. AND A WOMAN WILL LEAVE HER FATHER AND MOTHER, CLEAVE TO HER HUSBAND AND THEY WILL BECOME ONE.  its so sad & painful but guess its better to move on as JESOUL said; but its just so difficult for me because she's my best friend and closest confidant and all members of my family love her so much. its complicated

If he is not a God of rules and regulations, then why are you setting such rules and regulations for someone else to meet before you deign to marry them? You seem to just be trying to break her and bend her to your will and I'm sorry but that simply doesn't sit well with me. Women are not supposed to be treated that way.
What regular Bible are you talking about? If you really do not want to lose her, then you must be ready to uphold your own part of the relationship.
If you wish to move on, good luck to you but remember that this is someone who has already violated some of the rules you listed to be with you and you now wish to chuck her out for not totally bending to your will. That I think is just callous and overbearing considering what she's already done.

maxpro-xl:

141 Things Jehovah's Witnesses Can't Do.
SEE NUMBER 50 - 60 AND NUMBER 70 - 82
. . . .
50. Study psychology, philosophy, sociology, and viewpoints that might shake their faith
51. Attend other Christian churches
52. Attend nondenominational churches
53. Attend non Christian churches
54. Get married in another church
55. Dating non believers is discouraged
56. Casual dating is discouraged
57. Dating someone without the intent of getting married
58. Being Intimate before marriage
59. Breaking an engagement, separation, and 'unscriptural' divorce may result in disciplinary action
60. Marriage to non believers is not recommended
. . . .
70. Sing the National Anthem.
71. Celebrate Christmas - Why?
72. Celebrate New Years Eve - Why?
73. Celebrate Easter - Why?
74. Celebrate Mother's Day - Why?
75. Celebrate Father's Day - Why?
76. Celebrate birthdays - Why?
77. Celebrate Thanksgiving
78. Celebrate Flag Day
79. Celebrate Veteran's Day
80. Celebrate Independence Day. Why?
81. Celebrate Saint Patrick's Day
82. Celebrate Valentine's Day
. . . .

While I think lots of them are pointless, many Christians who aren't Jehovah's witnesses would agree with a lot of things in the entire list. Now on these issues you wished to bring to my attention, I don't see how they would make or break a marriage unless the marriage was already on the rocks. From what you've said, she's ready to break or has broken 54, 55, maybe 58 and 60 but you want to force her to break those in addition to 51, 52, 53 while threatening her with 57 and 59. And what will you be giving up? You'll simply continue along your own paths without concessions?
And you consider this love towards someone you wish to marry?

Then I don't see why the 70 - 82 is such a threat to your marriage. After all, the 82 is something that it seems women care for much more than men do. Also, the 73 is wrong because they do celebrate Easter.

@ugbo very wise, people must meet half way, or at least agree to the terms of engagement to willing change. It is not about the wedding it is about lives together, if none can renege on their allegiances for each other, it is obviously not a good sign for a future that will require them to have to compromise time and again.

the law are however quite restrictive, my my
another advise for the man, is to make it worthwhile for her, if you treat her well, you are extremely rich (sorry), you are extremely romantic, etc etc, then she will bend for you, (in many ways), like you have been advised, you need to also give something to her, "meet her halfway"

JeSoul:

The poster is a christian and asked for advice along those lines. If you find christian beliefs 'disgusting' that is your certainly your perogative. Cheers.

Please do read and understand comments before you reply. There is nothing in my comment that suggests that I find christian believes disgusting. I said your advice is. If you do a little 10minutes research you would find that JWs are christians, just as are seventh day adventist church, Christ Church, Christ Church of latter day saints, catholics, Anglican etc. They all are christians, but hold and espouse different views, even though the use basically the same biblical bases.

@JESOUL
So you’re one of the forum managers. Thanks for un-tagging the 141 list. Thank u so much for your advice. You’re well informed, purpose driven and articulate. For the 5-months, we were together, she never attended the JW kingdom hall just to impress me. Every Sunday morning, its one excuse or the other. "am feeling sick”, “my clothes are dirty”, “we’re already late”. “Baby u can go,l will pick a cab & meet u soon”. there was a particular time I took the time to iron her clothes myself, the next thing, she complained of menstrual pain which wasn’t true.

[b]She dated a JW guy in the past and l asked her why she left him. She said he was too extreme and didn’t want her to wear jeans & av non JW friends. My family members said, it’s a spiritual matter & it can work out with time & dialogue. If JW claim to be christians. Why do they judge their members and “dis-fellowship” them when they marry others or break rules. I wont break-up yet as u adviced but will wait for her to express her decision to follow me to church. What l want to do now is to sit with her dad and discuss to know his opinion.

Few months ago, from advice of friends, l told her to take me to JW and she said no. my plan was that we will go to JW this Sunday and the next Sunday we will go to my own church and continue like that just to bring equity. she still said no again. her excuse was that JW members now hate her because she left one of the members she once dated. I then said we should go to another branch of JW and she still said no. hope u can now see what l am dealing with.[/b]

@ UGBO & THEHOMER. please read my response to JESOUL above
Am not selfish and egotistic (as ugbo said) and am not callous & over-bearing(as thehomer said): if l am, she wont av accepted me & l wont av proposed to her. the truth is she was able to hide her JW beliefs from me until she moved in with me. I NEVER INVITED HER TO MOVE IN, IT WAS HER DECISION.  According to her, she doesn’t want other girls around me but l know it was because the place was more comfortable than her student house.

Seems both of you(ugbo & thehomer) don’t under the concept of marriage. Its because of reasons like this that we av many divorce cases worldwide. Am being sensitive to the future. am not intolerant & not an extremist. l don’t even go to church every Sunday due to my work. Out of the 20-Sundays, l was only around for about 12-Sundays.

I met her half-way as both of u noted as that is the real sign of true love. Am not conformed to daystar or any other church(as thehomer noted). The truth is JW are extremist. Catholics, Anglicans, Methodist, Baptists are not and are very tolerant. If u must know, l was born into a Baptist family and still attend once in a while. Av dated girls in the past that l followed to catholic & Methodist churches so am not an extremist. those were my wayward days. Going the extra mile just to get a girl as a former player during my university days. but am a changed man now, old things av passed away.

If you had such grave reservations about jehovah's witnesses, why date the girl in the first place? You figured you'd do precisely what you're doing now? You sound like a control freak and chauvinist, as has been pointed out to you, but of course you can't be expected to see that. You're very blasé about going thru her phone messages. You declare it as a matter of course, with nary a blush. It's evident the girl is as conflicted as you. But you're not really interested in how she feels, in reaching a solution that works for you both. No. After choosing the girl, knowing her religious affiliation, you're on a crusade to have things entirely your own way, and get people to agree with you that you're doing right. I almost feel sorry for her.

maxpro-xl:

@ UGBO & THEHOMER. please read my response to JESOUL above
Am not selfish and egotistic (as ugbo said) and am not callous & over-bearing(as thehomer said): if l am, she wont av accepted me & l wont av proposed to her. the truth is she was able to hide her JW beliefs from me until she moved in with me. I NEVER INVITED HER TO MOVE IN, IT WAS HER DECISION. According to her, she doesn’t want other girls around me but l know it was because the place was more comfortable that her student house.

Seems both u(ugbo & thehomer) don’t under the concept of marriage. Its because of reasons like this that we av many divorce cases worldwide. Am being sensitive to the future. am not intolerant & not an extremist. l don’t even go to church every Sunday due to my work. Out of the 20-Sundays, l was only around for about 12-Sundays.

I met her half-way as both of u noted as that is the real sign of true love. Am not conformed to daystar or any other church(as thehomer noted). The truth is JW are extremist. Catholics, Anglicans, Methodist, Baptists are not and are very tolerant. If u must know, l was born into a Baptist family and still attend once in a while. Av dated girls in the past that l followed to catholic & Methodist churches so am not an extremist. those were my wayward days. Going the extra mile just to get a girl as a former player during my university days. but am a changed man now, old things av passed away.

Maxpro-xl, I am sure you are a nice guy. You seem to be mixing up a few things here, religious believes(including what you think is right and wrong), what you believe a marriage should be, and the place of a man and woman in the marriage institution. You've made up your mind that JWs are extremist, but catholics etc are not, how you arrived at that conclusion I am not sure, but I don't want to go into that. Anyway, I do understand marriage, I am happily married. Marriage is a union of two equals. That you keep insisting she must go with you to your church is what I consider egotistical and selfish. Did you offer to go to her church? What did you give up or do that was a compromise on your part? how did you meet her half way?

You also painted a picture of a male chauvinist, when you said : any woman that is not ready to massage a man’s ego, shld rather not get married. The reason there are so many divorce is because of such chauvinistic attitude which does not have a place in our modern world, plus women are beginning to demand fare treatment from their male partners. There are millions of very happy marriages the world over that not based on christianity. But I agree with you that you need to have the similar(not necessarily the same) set of believes or atleast tolerate each others believes to have a less argumentative union, however I do not agree to putting one person believes over the other, this is the same thinking boko haram, al qaeda, al shabab and other extremist set have, which is "I am right, you are dead"(2004; The Reith Lectures, Wole Soyinka).

You have also now insinuated she moved into your house for selfish reasons, which is to be comfortable, well if this is the case, it means you really don't think much of her anyway, so why are you with her? why not end it. You seem to attend church for the sake of it, so why are you bothered that she wont go with you to church?

Av dated Moslems girls dat l took to church. Am not a pastor or a perfect Christian neither am l against Jehovah witness . Am just so amazed at her outburst. Guess l made a big mistake of not knowing dat witnesses don’t marry outsiders. Now l know better

U sound like a church goer   is it same church u usually take ur muslim girls that u still fellowship with?
If yes, I wonder What the pastors are preaching all these while u come in with different muslim girls.
Anyway, U ve already stated a good step, that is going to the house of God, u can complete it by submiting to God in total, and then after u can asked him to direct ur thoughts/ways/decisions about u and ur Jehova withness girl.
Advises here can never be better than that of the LORD. all the best.

maxpro-xl:

@ UGBO & THEHOMER. please read my response to JESOUL above
Am not selfish and egotistic (as ugbo said) and am not callous & over-bearing(as thehomer said): if l am, she wont av accepted me & l wont av proposed to her. the truth is she was able to hide her JW beliefs from me until she moved in with me. I NEVER INVITED HER TO MOVE IN, IT WAS HER DECISION.  According to her, she doesn’t want other girls around me but l know it was because the place was more comfortable that her student house.

Different people for some reasons are able to put up with different sorts of behaviours.

maxpro-xl:

Seems both u(ugbo & thehomer) don’t under the concept of marriage. Its because of reasons like this that we av many divorce cases worldwide. Am being sensitive to the future. am not intolerant & not an extremist. l don’t even go to church every Sunday due to my work. Out of the 20-Sundays, l was only around for about 12-Sundays.

But you understand the concept of marriage which is that she must be ready to massage your ego and submit. If you're willing to take time off from your church, why can't she?

maxpro-xl:

I met her half-way as both of u noted as that is the real sign of true love. Am not conformed to daystar or any other church(as thehomer noted). The truth is JW are extremist. Catholics, Anglicans, Methodist, Baptists are not and are very tolerant. If u must know, l was born into a Baptist family and still attend once in a while. Av dated girls in the past that l followed to catholic & Methodist churches so am not an extremist. those were my wayward days. Going the extra mile just to get a girl as a former player during my university days. but am a changed man now, old things av passed away.

I don't think I noted you meeting her halfway. You don't think Catholics can be extremists?
Whatever you do is ultimately up to the both of you and you're complaining that she isn't going to church or the Kingdom Hall have you asked her why or are you simply hounding her to go to some group on Sundays?

@maxpro-xl you are arguing trivial things,  if you both believe in Jesus,  the least you can do is give her some lee way. Muslims marry Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, people very different cultures,races etc,  you on the other hand have so much in common.
it is unfair for you to sit in your high chair dictate terms for her. what if she was the one who had the upper hand and did that you?
It takes time for someone to change,  you must be patient and you also must change yourself and become more accommodating.
Stop focusing on the negatives of JW,  it must have some positives too. Why don't you make an effort to look and even attend a few sessions of church.
lots of bigotry ,racism, intolerance steps from not being open minded and living in an island. Also take a brave walk and meet her half way.
You should not force her into your religion you should encourage her,  and support her and work with her.
Religion can really cloud the mind. You can see the error in her ways,  but none in yours,  come on!~!! this is marriage, this is life,  it is not about taking a hard line and castigating your partner. there are so many girls in your church but you chose her,  treat her specially. This is not even just about her being a JW it is about also your giving her some respect.
Listen to thehomer, even other Christians are telling you the same thing, you are just looking for excuses because the task at hand is hard.
Get on with it, you came for advice and it has been given. We now need to hear of the progress not you repeating how you will not take our advice , Do you really love this girl?

[b]@UGBO
Read my response to JESOUL above. I offered to attend JW with her and she said no… read to see why. (Few months ago, from advice of friends, l told her to take me to JW and she said no. my plan was that we will go to JW this Sunday and the next Sunday we will go to my own church and continue like that just to bring equity. she still said no again. her excuse was that JW members now hate her because she left one of the members she once dated. I then said we should go to another branch of JW and she still said no. hope u can now see what l am dealing with).

Massaging a man’s ego is not a selfish statement, its about positive submission. A man should also massage a woman’s ego. Its vice-versa. Two things make a marriage work. TOLERANCE & ENDURANCE. In real endurance, you’re hoping that the situation will change.  When the situation doesn’t change, TOLERANCE will lead to TRAUMA and create emotional barriers.

You said u are happily married. So your wife doesn’t massage your ego. In any successful marriage, there is the place of the woman & a place for the man. If you are a Christian, you should know that GOD HAS ORDAINED THE MAN TO BE THE HEAD OF THE HOUSE. Being the head means being a LEADER. In actual sense, a good leader is not a BOSS but some one that has great influence on others.

If l am a male chauvinist(as u said), will I iron her clothes despite the notable differences(age, academics, status etc). I also do some others things for her I know some men on this thread can never do for their girl-friend/fiancée/wife.
Moving into my house was temporal & was only during her school session, she still lives with her parents so don’t get it wrong. Every woman loves comfort. I was against it but she persuaded me. I thank God she moved in, if not I wouldn’t have discovered her beliefs.

@ MAD-MAX.
You don’t have to feel sorry for her. 95% of her family are not JW so why cant she understand my point. Her dad, her two blood sisters, her step mum, her five step siblings all attend a church. Her mum & dad live separately and she lives with her dad. So why cant she bend for me(the one she claims to love). I don’t force women to do things, I persuade and dialogue. Remember I said her mum(a JW) approves of our relationship.
Av dated eleven girls in the past and this is the 2nd time I’m being engaged. The 1st engagement was a tribal issue(Yoruba/igbo case) & threats from my ex’s mum. Despite breaking up, we’re still very good friends. So you can see now that am not a control freak and chauvinist(as u noted).

@PLAPPVILLE
Am not a church goer(as u think)), if not all this wouldn’t bother me and this issue wont be a source of worry. Those days were school days & as I once noted on this thread, old things av passed away.


@ZATAXS
Yes muslims marry Christians. Av dated muslim girls and if u must know by best male friend is a muslim. If she was a muslim, I  wont bother because its another case. I wont even persuade her to attend a church. Muslims are not extremist like JW except probably Arabs. Remember I said, I didn’t know about her beliefs until she moved in with me(which I was against). What bothers me is the mindset of my unborn children. If I don’t change her now, there is the tendency she will influence some of them. How can we have a happy home if issues like this abound.

If I dont love her. why would l propose to her & still tolerate her. Do u know what I don’t understand. What will happen to her if she goes to church on a sunday. Will she die? A girl that 95% of her family are Christians. Even after devicing a way out. I offered to attend JW with her on a Sunday so she can attend mine the following Sunday, she till said no. Am so confused.

HOWEVER SHE HAS ACCEPTED NOW. AM JUST WAITING FOR HER TO DEMONSTRATE IT. I have acted on JESOUL’s advice to be patient. Her sister who is married(not JW) called me yesterday and said I should be patient. I rest my case.[/b]

@plappville,
Am not a church goer(as u think)), if not all this wouldn’t bother me and this issue wont be a source of worry. Those days were school days & as I once noted on this thread, old things av passed away.

This is begining to sound interesting, then know ye that if u ask him, God will enrich u with wisdom to handle this issue.
U still need him even if everyone advise here sound to be the best.

@maxpro-xl I admire your persistence, you must love the woman. Please be more patient and less judgmental. Just go to the church and see for yourself, of course after being so harsh on her she will say no. be patient. I am sure she is an intelligent girl you need to win her over, not make insensitive demands. It must be really hard for her to see what's wrong with her church yet you are also going to church which also goes by the bible and just as misguided as hers. However maybe your church is a lesser evil, so, reason will win, if you are patient and you also meet her halfway.