TenQ:


It seems you are not aware that
[i]Allah says that
1. The sun set in some murky waters

Allah never said such verbatim! You lied!
With regard to the words of Allah, may He be exalted, in the story of Dhu’l-Qarnayn (interpretation of the meaning): “Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water” [al-Kahf 18:86], the commentators said that what is meant is to depict the scene that appeared before him, for he saw it on the horizon of the sea, as if it were sinking into it at the time of setting. The Holy Qur’an does not tell us that this was something that happnened in a real sense; hence Allah, may He be glorified, said “he found it setting” and He did not say “it was setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water.”

Al-Haafiz Ibn Katheer (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
That is, he way he saw the sun was as if it was setting in the ocean, which is something that happens to everyone who stands on the shore: he sees the sun as if it is setting into the sea, when in fact it does not leave the celestial path on which it is firmly established.
End quote from Tafseer al-Qur’an al-Kareem (5/191)

2. Women have reproductive fluid coming from their ribs

This is another lie from you. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “Proceeding from between the back-bone (as-sulb) and the ribs (at-taraa’ib)”, and He did not say that it proceeds from the back-bone (as-sulb) and the ribs (at-taraa’ib). And that is the origin of the male testes and Ovaries as discovered by modern medicine!

3. Solomon died while standing on his walking stick for almost one year and no one knew

How is this not possible? The Solomon in the Qur'an is not same as the one in your Bible. Prophet Sulaiman was a wise man whom Allah grants the control of the Jinns and many other creatures of Allah, even the wind!

So the Jinns and creatures under his command obey him without fail and he has the authority to punish any of them. So it's very possible he died and none of them knew because they were afraid of him!

4. Allah gave Muslims permission to do prostitution (pleasure marriage =Mutah)
[/i]the list go on and on. How can this be from God?

Allah has permitted many acts before that is now forbidden!
Adam married Eve who is technically his daughter as she was created from him!
Cain married his sister!
Other sons of Adam will of course marry their sisters!
And in your Bible Genesis 38, Judah impregnated a prostitute who happens to be his daughter in law giving birth to one of the ancestors of Jesus Christ! God didn't punish Judah as He did kill his sons (Er and Onan) who did evil in his sight..

In short, God permitted the harlotry and adultery in Genesis 38!

And more so, we can also discuss what the soldiers did with the 32, 000 virgins of war captives in Numbers 31 of which Yahweh got 32 as tribute!

AntiChristian:


Allah never said such verbatim! You lied!
With regard to the words of Allah, may He be exalted, in the story of Dhu’l-Qarnayn (interpretation of the meaning): “Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water” [al-Kahf 18:86], the commentators said that what is meant is to depict the scene that appeared before him, for he saw it on the horizon of the sea, as if it were sinking into it at the time of setting. The Holy Qur’an does not tell us that this was something that happnened in a real sense; hence Allah, may He be glorified, said “he found it setting” and He did not say “it was setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water.”

Al-Haafiz Ibn Katheer (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
That is, he way he saw the sun was as if it was setting in the ocean, which is something that happens to everyone who stands on the shore: he sees the sun as if it is setting into the sea, when in fact it does not leave the celestial path on which it is firmly established.
End quote from Tafseer al-Qur’an al-Kareem (5/191)

You forgot that Allah was reporting a story and it wasn't Dhul qarnayn and Allah is precise in Arabic.

My friend, how did Allah say Dhul Qarnayn found a people there (at the place where the sun set) ?

Did Dhul Qarnayn also appear to find a people at the setting place of the sun?

Read your Quran!

AntiChristian:

This is another lie from you. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “Proceeding from between the back-bone (as-sulb) and the ribs (at-taraa’ib)”, and He did not say that it proceeds from the back-bone (as-sulb) and the ribs (at-taraa’ib). And that is the origin of the male testes and Ovaries as discovered by modern medicine!

Mr AntiChristian,
It seems you don't
The taraa’ib is used specifically in Arabic to depict the rib bones of a woman at the necklace region.

Why did your prophet say that the water of the man is white and thick while that of the woman is yellow and thin?

Allah and his Apostle know best!

AntiChristian:

How is this not possible? The Solomon in the Qur'an is not same as the one in your Bible. Prophet Sulaiman was a wise man whom Allah grants the control of the Jinns and many other creatures of Allah, even the wind!

So the Jinns and creatures under his command obey him without fail and he has the authority to punish any of them. So it's very possible he died and none of them knew because they were afraid of him!

For once you told the truth.
Suleiman in the Qur'an is different from King Solomon in the Bible.

Is David in the Qur'an the same as the Father of Suleiman?

Because King David is the Father of king Solomon in the Bible.

Nevertheless,
Please explain how come the wives of Sulaiman did not notice that he died for almost one year?

How come his chiefs and subjects for almost a year come daily to the Palace and did not ask for their king?

AntiChristian:

Allah has permitted many acts before that is now forbidden!
Adam married Eve who is technically his daughter as she was created from him!
Cain married his sister!
Other sons of Adam will of course marry their sisters!
And in your Bible Genesis 38, Judah impregnated a prostitute who happens to be his daughter in law giving birth to one of the ancestors of Jesus Christ! God didn't punish Judah as He did kill his sons (Er and Onan) who did evil in his sight..

In short, God permitted the harlotry and adultery in Genesis 38!

And more so, we can also discuss what the soldiers did with the 32, 000 virgins of war captives in Numbers 31 of which Yahweh got 32 as tribute!

Allah permits prostitution!?
Tell me how can this be God?

Allah also not in nly permit prostitution, he gave you manual of being a love-vendor: don't tell me that this is abrogated too. I find no where where it is prohibited till today.

Qur'an 24:33
Those who cannot afford to marry should abstain from what is unlawful until God enriches them by His grace. And free those slaves you possess who wish to buy their freedom after a written undertaking, if you know they have some goodness, and give them out of the riches God has given you. Do not force your maids to prostitution if they wish to lead married lives, in order to get the benefits of this world. But if someone forces them, surely God (will forgive them) after their forced helplessness, for He is forgiving and kind.

I know you will still repeat the same thing! And I will repeat the same thing as you did!

TenQ:


It seems you are not aware that
[i]Allah says that
1. The sun set in some murky waters

Allah never said such verbatim! You lied!
With regard to the words of Allah, may He be exalted, in the story of Dhu’l-Qarnayn (interpretation of the meaning): “Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water” [al-Kahf 18:86], the commentators said that what is meant is to depict the scene that appeared before him, for he saw it on the horizon of the sea, as if it were sinking into it at the time of setting. The Holy Qur’an does not tell us that this was something that happnened in a real sense; hence Allah, may He be glorified, said “he found it setting” and He did not say “it was setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water.”

Al-Haafiz Ibn Katheer (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
That is, he way he saw the sun was as if it was setting in the ocean, which is something that happens to everyone who stands on the shore: he sees the sun as if it is setting into the sea, when in fact it does not leave the celestial path on which it is firmly established.
End quote from Tafseer al-Qur’an al-Kareem (5/191)

2. Women have reproductive fluid coming from their ribs

This is another lie from you. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “Proceeding from between the back-bone (as-sulb) and the ribs (at-taraa’ib)”, and He did not say that it proceeds from the back-bone (as-sulb) and the ribs (at-taraa’ib). And that is the origin of the male testes and Ovaries as discovered by modern medicine!

3. Solomon died while standing on his walking stick for almost one year and no one knew

How is this not possible? The Solomon in the Qur'an is not same as the one in your Bible. Prophet Sulaiman was a wise man whom Allah grants the control of the Jinns and many other creatures of Allah, even the wind!

So the Jinns and creatures under his command obey him without fail and he has the authority to punish any of them. So it's very possible he died and none of them knew because they were afraid of him!

4. Allah gave Muslims permission to do prostitution (pleasure marriage =Mutah)
[/i]the list go on and on. How can this be from God?

Allah has permitted many acts before that is now forbidden!
Adam married Eve who is technically his daughter as she was created from him!
Cain married his sister!
Other sons of Adam will of course marry their sisters!
And in your Bible Genesis 38, Judah impregnated a prostitute who happens to be his daughter in law giving birth to one of the ancestors of Jesus Christ! God didn't punish Judah as He did kill his sons (Er and Onan) who did evil in his sight..

In short, God permitted the harlotry and adultery in Genesis 38!

And more so, we can also discuss what the soldiers did with the 32, 000 virgins of war captives in Numbers 31 of which Yahweh got 32 as tribute!

Pitiful at best. Ba answer!?

AntiChristian:
I know you will still repeat the same thing! And I will repeat the same thing as you did!

I asked you questions that you fled from

AntiChristian:

Allah never said such verbatim! You lied!
With regard to the words of Allah, may He be exalted, in the story of Dhu’l-Qarnayn (interpretation of the meaning): “Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water” [al-Kahf 18:86], the commentators said that what is meant is to depict the scene that appeared before him, for he saw it on the horizon of the sea, as if it were sinking into it at the time of setting. The Holy Qur’an does not tell us that this was something that happnened in a real sense; hence Allah, may He be glorified, said “he found it setting” and He did not say “it was setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water.”

Al-Haafiz Ibn Katheer (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
That is, he way he saw the sun was as if it was setting in the ocean, which is something that happens to everyone who stands on the shore: he sees the sun as if it is setting into the sea, when in fact it does not leave the celestial path on which it is firmly established.
End quote from Tafseer al-Qur’an al-Kareem (5/191)

How come Dhul qarnayn found a people near it(where the sun set) ?

It's a simple question!

AntiChristian:

This is another lie from you. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “Proceeding from between the back-bone (as-sulb) and the ribs (at-taraa’ib)”, and He did not say that it proceeds from the back-bone (as-sulb) and the ribs (at-taraa’ib). And that is the origin of the male testes and Ovaries as discovered by modern medicine!

Is it untrue that the taraa’ib is used specifically in Arabic to depict the rib bones of a woman at the necklace region?

AntiChristian:

How is this not possible? The Solomon in the Qur'an is not same as the one in your Bible. Prophet Sulaiman was a wise man whom Allah grants the control of the Jinns and many other creatures of Allah, even the wind!

So the Jinns and creatures under his command obey him without fail and he has the authority to punish any of them. So it's very possible he died and none of them knew because they were afraid of him!

Is the father of the Suleiman in the Qur'an David the king of Israel?

AntiChristian:

Allah has permitted many acts before that is now forbidden!
Adam married Eve who is technically his daughter as she was created from him!
Cain married his sister!
Other sons of Adam will of course marry their sisters!
And in your Bible Genesis 38, Judah impregnated a prostitute who happens to be his daughter in law giving birth to one of the ancestors of Jesus Christ! God didn't punish Judah as He did kill his sons (Er and Onan) who did evil in his sight..

In short, God permitted the harlotry and adultery in Genesis 38!

And more so, we can also discuss what the soldiers did with the 32, 000 virgins of war captives in Numbers 31 of which Yahweh got 32 as tribute!

Has this verse been abrogated by Allah

Qur'an 24:33
Those who cannot afford to marry should abstain from what is unlawful until God enriches them by His grace. And free those slaves you possess who wish to buy their freedom after a written undertaking, if you know they have some goodness, and give them out of the riches God has given you. Do not force your maids to prostitution if they wish to lead married lives, in order to get the benefits of this world. But if someone forces them, surely God (will forgive them) after their forced helplessness, for He is forgiving and kind.


Such simple questions!

TenQ:
Pitiful at best. Ba answer!?


I asked you questions that you fled from

Okay!

How come Dhul qarnayn found a people near it(where the sun set) ?

It's a simple question!

Al-Haafiz Ibn Katheer (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
That is, the way he saw the sun was as if it was setting in the ocean, which is something that happens to everyone who stands on the shore: he sees the sun as if it is setting into the sea, when in fact it does not leave the celestial path on which it is firmly established.
End quote from Tafseer al-Qur’an al-Kareem (5/191) So he found the people near such place!

Is it untrue that the taraa’ib is used specifically in Arabic to depict the rib bones of a woman at the necklace region?
Not true!
Imam at-Tabari (may Allah have mercy on him) said: The commentators differed as to what is meant by at-taraa’ib and where they are located. Some said that the word at-taraa’ib refers to the place where the necklace goes on a woman’s chest. This was narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas, ‘Ikrimah and others.

Others said that the taraa’ib is the area between the shoulders and the chest. This was narrated from Mujaahid and others among the early generation.

Yet others said that what is meant is that it emerges from between a man’s back and upper chest. This was narrated from Qataadah.

And there were other opinions which suggested that it refers to the arms, legs or eyes, or that it refers to the ribs that are below the back, or that it refers to the essence of the heart.

Then he – i.e., at-Tabari (may Allah have mercy on him) – said: The correct view concerning that, in our opinion, is the view of those who said that it is the place where the necklace goes on a woman’s chest, because that is the well-known usage in the Arabic language and in Arabic poetry.

[quote]Is the father of the Suleiman in the Qur'an David the king of Israel?

Yes, Prophet-King David gave birth to Prophet-King Sulaiman!

Has this verse been abrogated by Allah

Qur'an 24:33
Those who cannot afford to marry should abstain from what is unlawful until God enriches them by His grace. And free those slaves you possess who wish to buy their freedom after a written undertaking, if you know they have some goodness, and give them out of the riches God has given you. Do not force your maids to prostitution if they wish to lead married lives, in order to get the benefits of this world. But if someone forces them, surely God (will forgive them) after their forced helplessness, for He is forgiving and kind.

Such simple questions!

The verse was revealed to stop slave prostitution!
'' Al-A`mash narrated from Abu Sufyan that Jabir said concerning this Ayah, "This was revealed about a slave-girl belonging to `Abdullah bin Ubayy bin Salul whose name was Musaykah. He used to force her to commit immoral actions, but there was nothing wrong with her and she refused.

It is not abrogated!

The above verse is an order from Allaah to whoever is not able to marry to abstain from illegal sexual relations, like the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allaah exalt his mention ) said: "O young people, whoever is able to marry should marry, and whoever is not able to do so, he should fast, as fasting diminishes his sexual desires." Then the verse advised those who own slaves to make a contract with those slaves who seek such a contract to pay money in order to emancipate themselves.

However, it is not permissible for a woman to commit Zina (adultery or fornication) whether she is a slave woman or a free woman, and it is not permissible for her master to allow her to do so; rather, he is obliged to prevent her from committing Zina according to his ability. This verse was revealed to clarify what used to happen at that time as some hypocrites, like ‘Abdullaah ibn Ubay ibn Salool, used to compel their slave girls to commit Zina so that they would bring them some money, so the verse prohibited them from doing so.

All these to avoid being quoted properly!?

AntiChristian:

Okay!
Al-Haafiz Ibn Katheer (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
That is, the way he saw the sun was as if it was setting in the ocean, which is something that happens to everyone who stands on the shore: he sees the sun as if it is setting into the sea, when in fact it does not leave the celestial path on which it is firmly established.
End quote from Tafseer al-Qur’an al-Kareem (5/191) So he found the people near such place!

It seems you forget that the sun always set in the horizon whether on land or on the sea.
Did Dhul qarnayn also found the people at or is it near the Horizon?



Simple questions like this is what is used to sift between truth and lies. Allah says that Dhul qarnayn found a people near the place where the sun set.

Except the people were at the horizon : is this the case?

AntiChristian:

Imam at-Tabari (may Allah have mercy on him) said: The commentators differed as to what is meant by at-taraa’ib and where they are located. Some said that the word at-taraa’ib refers to the place where the necklace goes on a woman’s chest. This was narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas, ‘Ikrimah and others.

Others said that the taraa’ib is the area between the shoulders and the chest. This was narrated from Mujaahid and others among the early generation.

Yet others said that what is meant is that it emerges from between a man’s back and upper chest. This was narrated from Qataadah.

And there were other opinions which suggested that it refers to the arms, legs or eyes, or that it refers to the ribs that are below the back, or that it refers to the essence of the heart.

Then he – i.e., at-Tabari (may Allah have mercy on him) – said: The correct view concerning that, in our opinion, is the view of those who said that it is the place where the necklace goes on a woman’s chest, because that is the well-known usage in the Arabic language and in Arabic poetry.

I think you can see very clearly from your references that
The taraa’ib is used specifically in Arabic to depict the rib bones of a woman at the necklace region?

Meaning that your explanations were very off target!


Where is is the place where the necklace goes on a woman’s chest?

AntiChristian:

Yes, Prophet-King David gave birth to Prophet-King Sulaiman!

But you said that your Suleiman is NOT the same as the Solomon of the Bible.

You said :
"How is this not possible? The Solomon in the Qur'an is not same as the one in your Bible. Prophet Sulaiman was a wise man whom Allah grants the control of the Jinns and many other creatures of Allah, even the wind!

So the Jinns and creatures under his command obey him without fail and he has the authority to punish any of them. So it's very possible he died and none of them knew because they were afraid of him!"


Can you then explain how, the King David of the Bible gave birth to another Sulaiman who was a king of Israel?

AntiChristian:

The verse was revealed to stop slave prostitution!
'' Al-A`mash narrated from Abu Sufyan that Jabir said concerning this Ayah, "This was revealed about a slave-girl belonging to `Abdullah bin Ubayy bin Salul whose name was Musaykah. He used to force her to commit immoral actions, but there was nothing wrong with her and she refused.

It is not abrogated!

The verse was revealed to moderate prostitution. In other words, Allah was setting rules for prostitution for Muslims with the following rules
1. Don't force your slaves into prostitution IF your slaves do not want it.
2. However , if you Muslim men FORCE them, Allah will forgive you.

At least you are truthful that the verse isn't abrogated!

This verse gives permission for Muslim men to be Pim.ps as Allah will forgive you if you do.

Do you now agree that Allah support Prostitution?

AntiChristian:


The above verse is an order from Allaah to whoever is not able to marry to abstain from illegal sexual relations, like the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam ( may Allaah exalt his mention ) said: "O young people, whoever is able to marry should marry, and whoever is not able to do so, he should fast, as fasting diminishes his sexual desires." Then the verse advised those who own slaves to make a contract with those slaves who seek such a contract to pay money in order to emancipate themselves.

However, it is not permissible for a woman to commit Zina (adultery or fornication) whether she is a slave woman or a free woman, and it is not permissible for her master to allow her to do so; rather, he is obliged to prevent her from committing Zina according to his ability. This verse was revealed to clarify what used to happen at that time as some hypocrites, like ‘Abdullaah ibn Ubay ibn Salool, used to compel their slave girls to commit Zina so that they would bring them some money, so the verse prohibited them from doing so.

There were two parts to the verse
1. An advice on marriage
2. An advise on conducting prostitution

AntiChristian:

Al-Haafiz Ibn Katheer (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
That is, the way he saw the sun was as if it was setting in the ocean, which is something that happens to everyone who stands on the shore: he sees the sun as if it is setting into the sea, when in fact it does not leave the celestial path on which it is firmly established.
End quote from Tafseer al-Qur’an al-Kareem (5/191) So he found the people near such place!

Did Dhul qarnayn find the people close to the horizon?

Don't forget that horizon exist everywhere on the earth (sea or land)!






The problem of you Muslims is that you care not a hoot about the Truth!

Qasim6:


.

I was supposed to reply in the morning, but my laptop just poof - no light and I had to go out! Haha!

I am coming.

Islam is a very funny religion.

Revelations are given only when there is no documented evidences by witnesses. In other words, past events or future events are only revealed if and only if no previous records of it exists or documented.

A group of homogeneous people documented their generations and their itineraries over a long period of time and someone who wasn't even born, nor travelled to or even understood their indigenous ways of life now comes up and saying he had a revelations that what eye witnesses penned down were wrong

It can be likened to Prof Soyinka writing a book about Pharaoh Amentohep III or Tutankhamen discrediting what Egyptian wrote about them, even changing their names, their way of life/living, religion, belief systems, family values et al.

Prof Soyinka who is existing hundreds of years after their demise.

Case study of someone up there saying emphatically that King Solomon, son of David is not same as King Sulaiman just cos what their books said is at variance with what was penned down by King Solomon scribes.

Was it after King Solomon reigned that your Islamic King Sulaiman reigned over Israel ?

Jubril of Sudan and Buhari - double body had been existing for aeons ohh.....lol

An irony I would suppose!!!

Qasim6:


You don't need to spell out the false prophet accusation, what kinda prophet use previous [b]revelations [/b]to write his then claim he is receiving revelation from God?

The point is what you don't get. When God manifested himself to some people or many people as the case may be, when he punished some rebels with instant judgement, when he sent angels to earth, when he wrought miracles, displayed his mighty power and more. A lot of these events happened with many live witnesses present. Humans who saw and heard what happened - not one or two or three or four. Sometimes thousands of them.

Some witnesses deem it upon themselves to pen down what happened. There is not a need for revelation in this instance. A large part of the stories in the Bible was written by reliable first-hand witness who saw with their eyes what happened and need no revelation from God. Only a few events can be known by revelation -- like the creation of the Heavens and the earth, the creation of the first human, the first sin, the flood, the formation of diverse human languages and more. These and many more especially in the book of Genesis can only be known by revelation because obviously man hadn't been created then.

Moses could not have known about the Genesis creation story because he has not been created then, but he was one of the central figures when the Israelite had their fair share of God in the wilderness. Does Moses need revelation of what happened in the wilderness? Of he killing an Egyptian? Of he parting the Red Sea? Of Gushing water out of a rock by divine power? No, of course not. He was there, for goodness sake. He witnessed the event.

And when Moses died, we had a long line of prophets who came after him from God. These prophets did not try to explain what the earlier prophets received. None came and started re-telling a different version of what had already been written. Elijah. Elisha. Daniel. Jeremiah. Ezekiel. Isaiah and many more. None of these prophet had a different revelation or even try to "explain what God revealed" to them about what happened in the past. Do we have an Elijah, Elisha, Daniel, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, or an Isaiah who comes up with, by divine revelation, a different or a slightly different tale of God's dealing with his people in the past? In fact, do we have anyone, or have we had anyone who calls himself a prophet and writes his own version, whether by divine inspiration or not, in a bid to do God's bidding. None, my brother.


What genuine prophet explains with some clarity what GOD revealed to other prophets of his? Is this not madness? Is it not ungodly on all fronts to try to explain divine revelations that wasn't handed to you unless God makes it clear that another prophet of his would do the interpretation. Is this like some sort of Nebuchadnezzar's dream? I thought a divine revelation is letting you in on what is unknown. Would God teach sucklings and babes whom we call prophets masters -level advanced Calculus and use notations from Quantum mechanics for interpretation? And if that's the case, what is Muhammad interpreting?

Qasim6:

It is a two sided sword bro, it cut both ways. Since according to you the absence of Daniel from the Qur'an is the ultimate litmus test for divine authorship of the Qur'an, why can't we just reverse that and see what warnings do we have from Daniel and all other previous prophets about a certain false Prophet from Arabia?

It is not the ultimate litmus for divine authorship, but it is one of them. The absence of the book of Daniel clearly shows that the Quran could not have been inspired. Why is God not correcting ALL the errors of the past? Why is God silent on some spectacular event which he wrought in a strange land. Daniel wrote the book in Aramaic for good reasons.

I just googled

"books of the hebrew bible and language written in"

And google brought this for me:

Except for a few passages in Aramaic, appearing mainly in the apocalyptic Book of Daniel, these scriptures were written originally in Hebrew during the period from 1200 to 100 bce.

Oh, and by the way, Hebrew bible is a synonym for the Old testament. The prophet of Islam has an opinion on all the books of the Hebrew bible except the one written in a different language, haha. And you think it is okay. Go and find out why. Don't take everything as said or read.


They didn't warn??, there might actually be warnings?? Which one is it??

If there are warnings you can bring them forth.

Qasim6:

Oh oh, you are talking of how something might have been part of divine plan.? I thought u r like second in command to God that know what God should reveal and what he shouldn't.



No bro, you thinking The all knowing God would have been completely silent about a false prophet that would pull that kinda huge following is dogshit crazy way of thinking

I believe in the sovereignty of God, but I still think one's responsible and should try to reason and explain things too. China has more than a billion people, but God has allowed a large part of them to go their ways. God has allowed far worse, far terrible things to happen in time, so this is just an icing. There is nothing special allowing a man to pull this on billions of people.


You can't just make claims, why not bring forth some of those contradictions that has been proven that the Qur'an account is false while the biblical account is the absolute truth.

Qasim6:

Coherent and detailed like portraying a sixteen years old Ishmael as a babe that Hagar was carrying around right?

This must be a joke. Where was he more than 2000 years? Where were his descendants? Why didn't he come out to defend this false claims? How many line of prophets do we have who are of his genealogy? Where was he when the Israelite through their ancestors claimed to be the beneficiaries of the covenant? Where were his descendants? For more than 2000 years, he was nowhere to be found. For more than 2000 years, none of his descendants could even contend with what is widely believed and held to be true. Away with such fellow; I hate wimps.

Qasim6:

I'm just going to give u a short narration in response to this.

When the Europeans first came across the Qur'an and found there in story of Moses, Pharaoh and a certain Haman (Haman according to Qur'an is one of the chiefs of Pharaoh); They called Prophet Muhammad all sort of unprintable names, that he picked Haman from the book of Esther and muddled it up with story of Moses. Haman according to the book of Esther was an aide to a Persian King.

Today, most Biblical scholars believe book of Esther is fictional because it doesn't line up with Persian History. guess the only book of the old testament missing from the dead sea Scrolls?

While with the decoding of hieroglyphs in the 19th century, we now know there was a certain Haman in ancient Egypt.

Unfortunately, my PC would poof anytime soon and I haven't been able to state somethings.

Have a good night rest.

jendoslim:
Islam is a very [b]funny [/b]religion.

Revelations are given only when there is no documented evidences by witnesses. In other words, past events or future events are only revealed if and only if no previous records of it exists or documented.

A group of homogeneous people documented their generations and their itineraries over a long period of time and someone who wasn't even born, nor travelled to or even understood their indigenous ways of life now comes up and saying he had a revelations that what eye witnesses penned down were wrong

It can be likened to Prof Soyinka writing a book about Pharaoh Amentohep III or Tutankhamen discrediting what Egyptian wrote about them, even changing their names, their way of life/living, religion, belief systems, family values et al.

Prof Soyinka who is existing hundreds of years after their demise.

Case study of someone up there saying emphatically that King Solomon, son of David is not same as King Sulaiman just cos what their books said is at variance with what was penned down by King Solomon scribes.

Was it after King Solomon reigned that your Islamic King Sulaiman reigned over Israel ?

Jubril of Sudan and Buhari - double body had been existing for aeons ohh.....lol

An irony I would suppose!!!

You are more than ten times more intelligent and wiser than I am; and no, I am not fucking kidding you.

I need to bookmark this. Thank you.

ISelectMySins:



You are more than ten times more intelligent and wiser than I am; and no, I am not fucking kidding you.

I need to bookmark this. Thank you.

I am learning under you sir.

jendoslim:


I am learning under you sir.

Learning under me? No sir, I still insist that you're wiser than I am. Your comment is grade one, top-notch, crystal clear, and so on point.

That being said, I am tempted to ask any Muslim apologist:

What if another prophet, maybe a Chinese comes today from his LORD, what if he comes with his own version of the times and dealings of the Jewish people and their relationship with God. A Chinese! What if? What if his testimony sometimes agrees with, and is sometimes at variance with theirs. What if this said prophet claims that Muhammad is dead right in everything he believed.

But he has been sent to finish the works of Muhammad with some vital nuances from his Lord. What if the said prophet said that God didn't intend that his people rely on the Bible and Quran alone; but on the authentic revelations from their LORD which would be given to him over the years. What if the said prophet starts pulling a large following, teaching hardcore Sunni Islam that very much appeals to Quran-thumpers and some very indecisive people who want to follow their God by going the extra mile for him.

From the five daily prayers to other articles of faith, what if this prophet believe in everything Muhammad believed in and even more; it's just that he has had more revelations from God and God asked him to liberate mankind with these messages. What if he lived a very devout lifestyle and can be set as an example for others. Or, what if it's another Arab prophet sent from his Lord to mankind not a Chinese, or an Ethiopian, or a Korean.

Should we believe him? Should we believe his testimony of events that happened more than two thousand years before he was even born despite many authentic manuscripts written by reliable eyewitnesses of the same events scattered in different parts of the world? Would God hold me guilty of unbelief if I don't believe him? These are the questions I would like to ask them.


There is no end to this things my man.

ISelectMySins:


Learning under me? No sir, I still insist that you're wiser than I am. Your comment is grade one, top-notch, crystal clear, and so on point.

That being said, I am tempted to ask any Muslim apologist:

What if another prophet, maybe a Chinese comes today from his LORD, what if he comes with his own version of the times and dealings of the Jewish people and their relationship with God. A Chinese! What if? What if his testimony sometimes agrees with, and is sometimes at variance with theirs. What if this said prophet claims that Muhammad is dead right in everything he believed.

But he has been sent to finish the works of Muhammad with some vital nuances from his Lord. What if the said prophet said that God didn't intend that his people rely on the Bible and Quran alone; but on the authentic revelations from their LORD which would be given to him over the years. What if the said prophet starts pulling a large following, teaching hardcore Sunni Islam that very much appeals to Quran-thumpers and some very indecisive people who want to follow their God by going the extra mile for him.

From the five daily prayers to other articles of faith, what if this prophet believe in everything Muhammad believed in and even more; it's just that he has had more revelations from God and God asked him to liberate mankind with these messages. What if he lived a very devout lifestyle and can be set as an example for others. Or, what if it's another Arab prophet sent from his Lord to mankind not a Chinese, or an Ethiopian, or a Korean.

Should we believe him? Should we believe his testimony of events that happened more than two thousand years before he was even born despite many authentic manuscripts written by reliable eyewitnesses of the same events scattered in different parts of the world? Would God hold me guilty of unbelief if I don't believe him? These are the questions I would like to ask them.


There is no end to this things my man.

If the Chinese man has been foretold in the early scripture, we would have to follow him.

Unfortunately for the Chinese man, Muhammad is the seal of Prophethood.

ISelectMySins:


The point is what you don't get. When God manifested himself to some people or many people as the case may be, when he punished some rebels with instant judgement, when he sent angels to earth, when he wrought miracles, displayed his mighty power and more. A lot of these events happened with many live witnesses present. Humans who saw and heard what happened - not one or two or three or four. Sometimes thousands of them.

Some witnesses deem it upon themselves to pen down what happened. There is not a need for revelation in this instance. A large part of the stories in the Bible was written by reliable first-hand witness who saw with their eyes what happened and need no revelation from God. Only a few events can be known by revelation -- like the creation of the Heavens and the earth, the creation of the first human, the first sin, the flood, the formation of diverse human languages and more. These and many more especially in the book of Genesis can only be known by revelation because obviously man hadn't been created then.

Moses could not have known about the Genesis creation story because he has not been created then, but he was one of the central figures when the Israelite had their fair share of God in the wilderness. Does Moses need revelation of what happened in the wilderness? Of he killing an Egyptian? Of he parting the Red Sea? Of Gushing water out of a rock by divine power? No, of course not. He was there, for goodness sake. He witnessed the event.

And when Moses died, we had a long line of prophets who came after him from God. These prophets did not try to explain what the earlier prophets received. None came and started re-telling a different version of what had already been written. Elijah. Elisha. Daniel. Jeremiah. Ezekiel. Isaiah and many more. None of these prophet had a different revelation or even try to "explain what God revealed" to them about what happened in the past. Do we have an Elijah, Elisha, Daniel, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, or an Isaiah who comes up with, by divine revelation, a different or a slightly different tale of God's dealing with his people in the past? In fact, do we have anyone, or have we had anyone who calls himself a prophet and writes his own version, whether by divine inspiration or not, in a bid to do God's bidding. None, my brother.

Are those eye witness still alive today?
The truth of the matter is you and I, we are not likely going to witness any of those mighty miracles in our lifetime.
I did not meet Muhammad or any of the prophets I believe were sent by God nor did u meet Daniel or any other prophets you believe were sent by God.
It is left for us to investigate with sincerity the books they leave behind

I don't really know why u r looking into Qur'an if if it's quest for truth or you are just having fun
If it's quest for the truth, then there is a problem with your approach, the problem with your approach is you are putting the cart before the horse. You already made up your mind on what should be revealed to Muhammad if he is a true prophet. Whereas, I believe what you first need to establish if he is a true prophet, if he is a true prophet then whatever revealed to him is what God deem perfect to reveal.

These are the bold claims Muhammad made about himself.

All other prophets before him were only sent to some localities and he is the only Prophet sent to the whole of Mankind

He is the Seal of Prophet, no other prophet after him

He has been foretold in previous scriptures

If I can establish the fact that he has been foretold then all of ur argument crumbles

We can start with Daniel prophecies.

ISelectMySins:


I just googled

"books of the hebrew bible and language written in"

And google brought this for me:

Except for a few passages in Aramaic, appearing mainly in the apocalyptic Book of Daniel, these scriptures were written originally in Hebrew during the period from 1200 to 100 bce.

Oh, and by the way, Hebrew bible is a synonym for the Old testament. The prophet of Islam has an opinion on all the books of the Hebrew bible except the one written in a different language, haha. And you think it is okay. Go and find out why. Don't take everything as said or read.

I understand some part of Daniel was written in Hebrew

Why do you think Aramaic was alien to the Arabs in the 5th-6th century when Muhammad was alive?

ISelectMySins:


This must be a joke. Where was he more than 2000 years? Where were his descendants? Why didn't he come out to defend this false claims? How many line of prophets do we have who are of his genealogy? Where was he when the Israelite through their ancestors claimed to be the beneficiaries of the covenant? Where were his descendants? For more than 2000 years, he was nowhere to be found. For more than 2000 years, none of his descendants could even contend with what is widely believed and held to be true. Away with such fellow; I hate wimps.

Are u kidding me?
You think this Us Vs them thing for me?

If the Jews and Arabs are at loggerheads, it is non of my business.

I was only pointing out to you how detailed and coherent the genesis is

A 16 yrs old at that time should be married with kids, yet we see passages like Hagar puting the boy under the bushes in Gen 21:15

Qasim6:


If the Chinese man has been foretold in the early scripture, we would have to follow him.

Unfortunately for the Chinese man, Muhammad is the seal of Prophethood.

This man you're giving it to me hot-hot.

Seal of what? Do you mean the last prophet?

Okay, let me be a bit specific. Is he the last prophet of the Jews? Or the Arabs? or the last prophet of the Abrahamic covenant? Or the last prophet from the seed of Adam? What exactly do you mean by the seal of the prophets?

Why do you think men can be bridled with a body of instructions and would not go astray from time to time? Who is supposed to call them to obedience when they do? Dead prophets in their graves or tons of manuscripts left behind? Do you think men can do without divine guidance from time to time? Do you think there was ever a point in the history of time where men were specifically without God's servant? Do you think an organized body of instruction is all that is needed to keep men in check for all time? This is what I would call ignorance per excellence. Let me speak French: Grandeur de ignorance!

God is faithful my friend. He is very very faithful. God would not leave his people to a written set of instructions for all time.

Where is the sense of justice in that if one can be damned despite making the claim that he continued in the path of sinfulness because there was no prophet to correct him and he's not a fan of the books?

I don't understand why people think God has done his best and would not continue to try. Why should any reasonable fellow think of a one last prophet in the Abrahamic covenant. Where is the sense in that? Did God ever say there would come a time when he would stop sending messengers and that men would have to rely on the books? Prove it for me.

Qasim6:


Are those eye witness still alive today?
The truth of the matter is you and I, we are not likely going to witness any of those mighty miracles in our lifetime.
I did not meet Muhammad or any of the prophets I believe were sent by God nor did u meet Daniel or any other prophets you believe were sent by God.
It is left for us to investigate with sincerity the books they leave behind

The easiest coup out for any religious difficulty is to say: God told me this. God told me that. This is the revelation I got from God. That's all that is needed to have a field day.

Even if your detail is right. How would we know? We would, of course, have to use the testimony of those who came before him because God's work cannot be established on the testimony of one prophet.

Qasim6:

I don't really know why u r looking into Qur'an if if it's quest for truth or you are just having fun
If it's quest for the truth, then there is a problem with your approach, the problem with your approach is you are putting the cart before the horse. You already made up your mind on what should be revealed to Muhammad if he is a true prophet. Whereas, I believe what you first need to establish if he is a true prophet, if he is a true prophet then whatever revealed to him is what God deem perfect to reveal.
These are the bold claims Muhammad made about himself.

Good. Please, could you point me to any works of God by the Jews (it has to be by from a Jews) that claims that God would send a gentile prophet, not just to the Jews, but to all mankind. I choose to use the word gentile because it is broader in scope and includes Arabia.

Qasim6:

He has been foretold in previous scriptures

If I can establish the fact that he has been foretold then all of ur argument crumbles

We can start with Daniel prophecies.

Which scripture? If you can establish it, I would believe and not just that, I would send you 20, 000 naira. I am waiting.

Qasim6:


Are u kidding me?
You think this Us Vs them thing for me?

If the Jews and Arabs are at loggerheads, it is non of my business.

I was only pointing out to you how detailed and coherent the genesis is

A 16 yrs old at that time should be married with kids, yet we see passages like Hagar puting the boy under the bushes in Gen 21:15

A 16 years old male even in days gone by is not some super human being compared to 16 years old we have today. I have seen and interacted with many 16 years old and a large number still rely on their parents for survival. How many independent 16 year old have you seen today? Even Abraham, at what age did he marry? Most established 16 year old in days gone by are so by virtue of their parents.

What makes it a subject of debate that a 16 years old would be fully reliant on his mother in those times? Even 30 year old could still be. I don't see the problem, or is there something you're seeing that I am not?

ISelectMySins:


The easiest coup out for any religious difficulty is to say: God told me this. God told me that. This is the revelation I got from God. That's all that is needed to have a field day.

Even if your detail is right. How would we know? We would, of course, have to use the testimony of those who came before him because God's work cannot be established on the testimony of one prophet.



Good. Please, could you point me to any works of God by the Jews (it has to be by from a Jews) that claims that God would send a gentile prophet, not just to the Jews, but to all mankind. I choose to use the word gentile because it is broader in scope and includes Arabia.




Which scripture? If you can establish it, I would believe and not just that, I would send you 20, 000 naira. I am waiting.

Ezekiel 8:16
Ezekiel 8:16 And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

ISelectMySins:


Good. Please, could you point me to any works of God by the Jews (it has to be by from a Jews) that claims that God would send a gentile prophet, not just to the Jews, but to all mankind. I choose to use the word gentile because it is broader in scope and includes Arabia.

Most Jews consider Muhammad to be a true prophet. Their only argument of not following him is he is a prophet to the Arab/gentile. Infact some consider the advent of Islam and coming of Muhammad as a fulfillment of Gen 17:20

ISelectMySins:


The easiest coup out for any religious difficulty is to say: God told me this. God told me that. This is the revelation I got from God. That's all that is needed to have a field day.

Even if your detail is right. How would we know? We would, of course, have to use the testimony of those who came before him because God's work cannot be established on the testimony of one prophet.

I totally agree with you. There need to be testimony of those that came before him.

ISelectMySins:

Which scripture? If you can establish it, I would believe and not just that, I would send you 20, 000 naira. I am waiting.

In Daniel 2, The king of Babylon saw a vision, which Daniel interprets as 5 successive kingdoms.
The first of the 5 kingdoms is Babylon and the last will be a God's Kingdom.

Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Historically the first 4 kingdoms were
Babylon - Persia - Greece - Rome
And the kingdom that came after the Roman empire was Islamic Empire.

The Christians did not defeat the Roman empire, infact they became an extension of the the Roman empire, the Roman christains exiled the Jews from Jerusalem and dump filths at the site of the holy temple, they persecuted non trinitarian christains. It was the Muslims that cleanse the temple site and allow the Israelites back into Jerusalem when they defeated the Romans and take Jerusalem from them.

ISelectMySins:


This man you're giving it to me hot-hot.

Seal of what? Do you mean the last prophet?

Okay, let me be a bit specific. Is he the last prophet of the Jews? Or the Arabs? or the last prophet of the Abrahamic covenant? Or the last prophet from the seed of Adam? What exactly do you mean by the seal of the prophets?

Why do you think men can be bridled with a body of instructions and would not go astray from time to time? Who is supposed to call them to obedience when they do? Dead prophets in their graves or tons of manuscripts left behind? Do you think men can do without divine guidance from time to time? Do you think there was ever a point in the history of time where men were specifically without God's servant? Do you think an organized body of instruction is all that is needed to keep men in check for all time? This is what I would call ignorance per excellence. Let me speak French: Grandeur de ignorance!

God is faithful my friend. He is very very faithful. God would not leave his people to a written set of instructions for all time.

Where is the sense of justice in that if one can be damned despite making the claim that he continued in the path of sinfulness because there was no prophet to correct him and he's not a fan of the books?

I don't understand why people think God has done his best and would not continue to try. Why should any reasonable fellow think of a one last prophet in the Abrahamic covenant. Where is the sense in that? Did God ever say there would come a time when he would stop sending messengers and that men would have to rely on the books? Prove it for me.

I know you don't believe in the Prophethood of Muhammad, I don't know if you consider Jesus as a Prophet or Son of God or God himself or all of the above.

It's been over 2000yrs Jesus/John the Baptist walk this earth mate! when should we be expecting the next prophet?

Qasim6:


I know you don't believe in the Prophethood of Muhammad, I don't know if you consider Jesus as a Prophet or Son of God or God himself or all of the above.

It's been over 2000yrs Jesus/John the Baptist walk this earth mate! when should we be expecting the next prophet?

Muhammad is not a prophet at all, but a God-fearing fraud. Oops sorry, I said what I shouldn't have said. Kai. Oooo. If not for you, but for Muslims (and they are quite many) whom I have benefited from in one way or another, I shouldn't be saying what I said on a public space, but then I hope I am truly anonymous.

Jesus promised to send his representative because men cannot do without God's guidance; Men need guidance and they need God's persona from time to time, and it will always be so from now till eternity. In fact, like food, men need God everyday. His representative is certainly not Muhammad, but the Holy Spirit.

Qasim6:



I totally agree with you. There need to be testimony of those that came before him.





In Daniel 2, The king of Babylon saw a vision, which Daniel interprets as 5 successive kingdoms.
The first of the 5 kingdoms is Babylon and the last will be a God's Kingdom.

Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Historically the first 4 kingdoms were
Babylon - Persia - Greece - Rome
And the kingdom that came after the Roman empire was Islamic Empire.

The Christians did not defeat the Roman empire, infact they became an extension of the the Roman empire, the Roman christains exiled the Jews from Jerusalem and dump filths at the site of the holy temple, they persecuted non trinitarian christains. It was the Muslims that cleanse the temple site and allow the Israelites back into Jerusalem when they defeated the Romans and take Jerusalem from them.

Will get back by 8:30pm. battery is down.

ISelectMySins:


Muhammad is not a prophet at all, but a God-fearing fraud. Oops sorry, I said what I shouldn't have said. Kai. Oooo. If not for you, but for Muslims (and they are quite many) whom I have benefited from in one way or another, I shouldn't be saying what I said on a public space, but then I hope I am truly anonymous.

Jesus promised to send his representative because men cannot do without God's guidance; Men need guidance and they need God's persona from time to time, and it will always be so from now till eternity. In fact, like food, men need God everyday. His representative is certainly not Muhammad, but the Holy Spirit.

Why do you think Muhammad is a fraud?


Prophecy of Isaiah 42

The prophecy is about a chosen servant of God
-He will come with a new law, not the Jewish law
-He will come as a light to the gentiles
-He will take people out of darkness and bring them to light
-He will have something to do with Sela and Kedar

Sela: There is a mountain in Medina known as mount Sela.
Or it could refer to Petra, Petra was built by the Nabataeans, the nebateans are descendants of Nebaioth which is the first son of Ishmael.

Kedar: Kedar is the 2nd son of Ishmael, infact throughout the Bible Kedar is synonymous to Arab.

I know you will come back to tell me this prophecy is about Jesus. You should be ready to tell me what Jesus have to do with the Arabs.

It reads
Let the settlement where Kedar lives rejoice
Let the people of Sela sing for joy

Qasim6:


Why do you think Muhammad is a fraud?


Prophecy of Isaiah 42

The prophecy is about a chosen servant of God
-He will come with a new law, not the Jewish law
-He will come as a light to the gentiles
-He will take people out of darkness and bring them to light
-He will have something to do with Sela and Kedar

Sela: There is a mountain in Medina known as mount Sela.
Or it could refer to Petra, Petra was built by the Nabataeans, the nebateans are descendants of Nebaioth which is the first son of Ishmael.

Kedar: Kedar is the 2nd son of Ishmael, infact throughout the Bible Kedar is synonymous to Arab.

I know you will come back to tell me this prophecy is about Jesus. You should be ready to tell me what Jesus have to do with the Arabs.

It reads
Let the settlement where Kedar lives rejoice
Let the people of Sela sing for joy

Peace and blessings of Allah be with you bro. Allah guides whom he wills to and a lot of times this discussions with these mischievous lot are a poor waste of time. They know but pretend not to. This is the script bro.

ISelectMySins:


Muhammad is not a prophet at all, but a God-fearing fraud. Oops sorry, I said what I shouldn't have said. Kai. Oooo. If not for you, but for Muslims (and they are quite many) whom I have benefited from in one way or another, I shouldn't be saying what I said on a public space, but then I hope I am truly anonymous.

Jesus promised to send his representative because men cannot do without God's guidance; Men need guidance and they need God's persona from time to time, and it will always be so from now till eternity. In fact, like food, men need God everyday. His representative is certainly not Muhammad, but the Holy Spirit.

You will agree that the 'holy spirit' was already around before and during the time of Yehushua of Nazareth. Why then is the spirit re-sent as a representative?

In the Old Testament, the Spirit of God is described as moving over the waters in the creation story (Genesis 1:2) and empowering prophets and leaders to speak on behalf of God. For example, in the book of Isaiah, the prophet declares, "The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me, because the Lord has anointed me to bring good news to the afflicted" (Isaiah 61:1).

The Holy Spirit has always been present in the world and continues to be present in the lives of believers. The Spirit of God was at work before and during the time of Yehushua of Nazareth, empowering individuals to fulfill God's purposes. The Holy Spirit did not leave at any point in time.

honesttalk21:

Peace and blessings of Allah be with you bro. Allah guides whom he wills to and a lot of times this discussions with these mischievous lot are a poor waste of time. They know but pretend not to. This is the script bro.

Salam bro. Jumah Mubarak!

Qasim6:



I totally agree with you. There need to be testimony of those that came before him.





In Daniel 2, The king of Babylon saw a vision, which Daniel interprets as 5 successive kingdoms.
The first of the 5 kingdoms is Babylon and the last will be a God's Kingdom.

Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Historically the first 4 kingdoms were
Babylon - Persia - Greece - Rome
And the kingdom that came after the Roman empire was Islamic Empire.

The Christians did not defeat the Roman empire, infact they became an extension of the the Roman empire, the Roman christains exiled the Jews from Jerusalem and dump filths at the site of the holy temple, they persecuted non trinitarian christains. It was the Muslims that cleanse the temple site and allow the Israelites back into Jerusalem when ey defeated the Romans and take Jerusalem from them.

Antispam bot banned me for 24hrs and pulled down my wall of text, but I hope you read it.

To summarize what I said because I don't even remember what I wrote.

Daniel speaks of five empires, not four as you think. Babylon was the first empire then Persia, Greece and then Rome.

Actually, succeeding empires were just an extension of the latter empire, so they were larger but not necessarily stronger. What do I mean? When the Persians defeated the Babylonian, they annexed Babylon's territory and often claimed it for themselves. Similarly, for Greece and then Rome.

For clarity, this is the passage:

27 Daniel replied, “There are no wise men, enchanters, magicians, or fortune-tellers who can reveal the king’s secret. 28 But there is a God in heaven who reveals secrets, and he has shown King Nebuchadnezzar what will happen in the future. Now I will tell you your dream and the visions you saw as you lay on your bed.

29 “While Your Majesty was sleeping, you dreamed about coming events. He who reveals secrets has shown you what is going to happen. 30 And it is not because I am wiser than anyone else that I know the secret of your dream, but because God wants you to understand what was in your heart.

31 “In your vision, Your Majesty, you saw standing before you a huge, shining statue of a man. It was a frightening sight. 32 The head of the statue was made of fine gold. Its chest and arms were silver, its belly and thighs were bronze, 33 its legs were iron, and its feet were a combination of iron and baked clay. 34 As you watched, a rock was cut from a mountain,[d] but not by human hands. It struck the feet of iron and clay, smashing them to bits. 35 The whole statue was crushed into small pieces of iron, clay, bronze, silver, and gold. Then the wind blew them away without a trace, like chaff on a threshing floor. But the rock that knocked the statue down became a great mountain that covered the whole earth.

36 “That was the dream. Now we will tell the king what it means. 37 Your Majesty, you are the greatest of kings. The God of heaven has given you sovereignty, power, strength, and honor. 38 He has made you the ruler over all the inhabited world and has put even the wild animals and birds under your control. You are the head of gold.

39 “But after your kingdom comes to an end, another kingdom, inferior to yours, will rise to take your place. After that kingdom has fallen, yet a third kingdom, represented by bronze, will rise to rule the world. 40 Following that kingdom, there will be a fourth one, as strong as iron. That kingdom will smash and crush all previous empires, just as iron smashes and crushes everything it strikes. 41 The feet and toes you saw were a combination of iron and baked clay, showing that this kingdom will be divided. Like iron mixed with clay, it will have some of the strength of iron. 42 But while some parts of it will be as strong as iron, other parts will be as weak as clay. 43 This mixture of iron and clay also shows that these kingdoms will try to strengthen themselves by forming alliances with each other through intermarriage. But they will not hold together, just as iron and clay do not mix.

44 “During the reigns of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed or conquered. It will crush all these kingdoms into nothingness, and it will stand forever. 45 That is the meaning of the rock cut from the mountain, though not by human hands, that crushed to pieces the statue of iron, bronze, clay, silver, and gold. The great God was showing the king what will happen in the future. The dream is true, and its meaning is certain.”

In the scripture you quoted, the hand is the first empire; then its chest and arms, another empire; its belly and thighs, the third empire; its legs and feet must be seen as one empire for two reasons: first, the feet is actually a part of the leg and this is evident from the colour used to describe both. I mean, both are one and the same colour.

The problem seem to be the rock cut from a mountain. The rock cut from the mountain is not an Islamic empire or caliphate. Clearly, it isn't. Is there any empire however big or powerful that has stood tall and remained unconquerable for all times?

Also, the extent of the Roman empire makes totally dissolution via warfare from a bunch of warriors an abstract concept. The Roman empire did rule most of Europe, portions of northern Africa, and much of the Middle East, including Israel. Which people or group are able to coalesce to form an empire or caliphate with the aim of defeating such a big territory? What I am saying is that the said group that would form an Islamic caliphate didn’t conquer the entire Roman empire.

Again, some school of thought believe that the fourth empire is a future one while others believe that is is not Rome because Rome didn't satisfy all the conditions of the fourth empire; the Roman’s didn’t completely conquer the landmass that the Greeks did conquer. It's quite dicey. Divine revelation is not subject to personal interpretation.

In fact, if you read a post here; the writer is of the view that the Islamic caliphate is the fourth Kingdom, not the rock cut as you alleged.
cliffwellman(dot) wordpress dot com slash 2019 slash 03 slash 16 slash daniel-2-explained

Which empire has been able to withstand onslaught and several guerilla warfare till today? Could you mention the Islamic empire that defeated the Roman empire as you claimed; I would like to know what became of them today and if they still exist.

ISelectMySins:


In fact, if you read a post here; the writer is of the view that the Islamic caliphate is the fourth Kingdom, not the rock cut as you alleged.
cliffwellman(dot) wordpress dot com slash 2019 slash 03 slash 16 slash daniel-2-explained

Why should I care about the opinion of this writer? If you read the Prophecy carefully, u'll notice the Kingdoms are successive, and we know for a certainty the first is Babylon and historically the next been Persia then Greece then Rome.

Did the Romans split like the prophecy said?
In 330CE, The empire splited into the western half and the Eastern half.

I believe the statement "In the days of these Kings" literally means the 4th kingdom from Babylon which is the Romans still have to be in existence when this God's Kingdom will come into power.

In the year 1453, the Byzantine empire came to an end when Sultan Mehmed II of the ottoman empire conquer Constantinople.