Facts and Background
1. The word trinity does not exist as a word anywhere in the entire Bible.

2. The First Council of Nicaea was convened by Emperor Constantine in 325 AD to address the controversy of Arianism, which denied the divinity of Christ.

3. Emperor Constantine, also known as Constantine the Great, was a Roman emperor who reigned from 306 to 337 AD. He is best known for being the first Roman emperor to convert to Christianity and for issuing the Edict of Milan in 313 AD, which granted religious tolerance to Christians in the Roman Empire. Constantine played a significant role in the Christianization of the Roman Empire and the convening of the First Council of Nicaea in 325 AD.

4. Emperor Constantine is often criticized for several actions or decisions he made during his reign, which are considered errors by some historians and scholars. Some of the criticisms include:

• The use of violence and coercion to enforce religious unity and the suppression of dissenting views, particularly during the Arian controversy.

• His involvement in theological disputes, such as the Arian controversy, which some argue led to the politicization of Christian doctrine.

• The adoption of certain pagan practices or symbols within Christianity, such as the incorporation of imperial imagery into Christian art and architecture.

• His consolidation of power and centralization of authority, which some argue undermined the traditional structure of the Roman Empire.

• The execution of his own son, Crispus, and his wife, Fausta, which are seen as examples of his ruthless pursuit of power and control.

These criticisms are debated among historians, and opinions on Constantine's reign and actions vary.

Here is a summary of what transpired in the council of Nicaea:
* The council brought together Christian bishops from various regions to discuss and reach a consensus on Christian beliefs.

*The main focus was on resolving the Arian controversy, which held that Christ was not divine but a created being.

*Arianism was a theological belief attributed to Arius, a Christian presbyter from Alexandria, Egypt, in the 4th century AD. Arius propagated the view that Jesus Christ was a created being and not co-eternal with God the Father, which led to the Arian controversy and the convening of the First Council of Nicaea.

*The council affirmed the divinity of Christ and condemned Arianism as a heresy.

*The Nicene Creed was formulated during the council to establish the orthodox Christian belief in the Trinity.

*Other topics discussed included the date of Easter, the authority of bishops, and the relationship between the Church and the Roman Empire.

*The decisions made at the First Council of Nicaea had a significant impact on shaping Christian theology and establishing the foundation of the early Church.

5.After the Nicene Creed, several other important creeds were established in the history of Christianity. Some of the notable ones include:

• The Apostles' Creed: A statement of faith based on early Christian beliefs, traditionally attributed to the apostles. • The Athanasian Creed: Focuses on the doctrine of the Trinity and the nature of Christ, attributed to Athanasius of Alexandria. • The Chalcedonian Creed: Affirms the dual nature of Christ (fully divine and fully human) and was established at the Council of Chalcedon in 451 AD. • The Creed of Constantinople (381): An expansion of the Nicene Creed, clarifying the role of the Holy Spirit in the Trinity.

These creeds played significant roles in defining Christian beliefs and addressing theological controversies throughout history.

Fxmasterz, Ken4Christ, Aemmyjah

1. If trinity was proven according to the Bible why the need for credal debates and endorsements?

2. Since you claim trinity exists somewhere in the Bible can you please show us trinity without eisegesis nor exegesis! I don't need any of your subjective premises here. Objectivity is what is needed! And do quote Biblical verses acceptable in all Bible versions not the ones present in KJV and not in RSV or NIV.

AbuTwins:


Fxmasterz

1. If trinity was proven according to the Bible why the need for credal debates and endorsements?

2. Since you claim trinity exists somewhere in the Bible can you please show us trinity without eisegesis nor exegesis! I don't need any of you subjective premises here. Objectivity is what is need! And do quote biblical verses acceptable in all bible versions not the ones present in KJV and not in RSV or NIV.

I said Trinity is biblical.

FxMasterz:


I said Trinity is biblical.

Yes, I acknowledged that.

1. If trinity was proven according to the Bible why the need for credal debates and endorsements?

2. Since you claim trinity exists somewhere in the Bible can you please show us trinity without eisegesis nor exegesis! I don't need any of your subjective premises here. Objectivity is what is needed! And do quote biblical verses acceptable in all Bible versions and not the ones present in KJV and not in RSV or NIV.

AbuTwins:


Fxmasterz

1. If trinity was proven according to the Bible why the need for credal debates and endorsements?

2. Since you claim trinity exists somewhere in the Bible can you please show us trinity without eisegesis nor exegesis! I don't need any of you subjective premises here. Objectivity is what is need! And do quote biblical verses acceptable in all bible versions not the ones present in KJV and not in RSV or NIV.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Notice the use of 'we' 'us'.


Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

Note, the person speaking identifies himself as yahweh (1 person) he said the Lord God ( another person) and his Spirit ( another person has sent him. Making them three distinct persons.
The Trinity is not a new testament teaching God has already revealed it in the old testament though the Jews might not understand it.

Steep:


Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Notice the use of 'we' 'us'.

This doesn't prove anything like trinity! It only proves polytheism! There are many Gods creating man!

It can be two gods, twenty gods or thousand gods for your "we" and "us". Show us trinity, three in one God of the father son and the holy spirit. All are coequal , coeternal, etc.

Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

Note, the person speaking identifies himself as yahweh (1 person) he said the Lord God ( another person) and his Spirit ( another person has sent him. Making them three distinct persons.
The Trinity is not a new testament teaching God has already revealed it in the old testament though the Jews might not understand it.

This verse too doesn't qualify.
1. Jesus wasn't mentioned explicitly.
2. Who is Adonay Yahweh you translated as Lord God? Is it Jesus or his father? How do you know the speaker is the father and not Jesus? You can't just read your own trinitarian mind into the verses.
3. How does this mean three in one Gods of trinity clearly without reading your own thoughts, feelings and emotions into the verse?

Please I already said it earlier be objective and not subjective!

AbuTwins:


Yes, I acknowledged that.

1. If trinity was proven according to the Bible why the need for credal debates and endorsements?

2. Since you claim trinity exists somewhere in the Bible can you please show us trinity without eisegesis nor exegesis! I don't need any of your subjective premises here. Objectivity is what is needed! And do quote biblical verses acceptable in all Bible versions and not the ones present in KJV and not in RSV or NIV.

Trinity isn't the only topic that generates credal debates you know? So, credal debates don't include doctrines. Of course, there are several scriptural supports for Trinity. However, the topic is of no use to you as a person. I'll discuss that with a fellow Christian who heretically opposes trinity.

Let's talk about Abraham and the ka'aba. Do you have any evidence or proof that Abraham founded the ka'aba?

AbuTwins:


Yes, I acknowledged that.

1. If trinity was proven according to the Bible why the need for credal debates and endorsements?

Anti Fornication, anti tattoo, anti.polygamy, anti slavery all proven to be in the bible yet people still debate about it.

There are always blind stubborn people.

Veecruz:


Anti Fornication, anti tattoo, anti.polygamy, anti slavery all proven to be in the bible yet people still debate about it.

There are always blind stubborn people.

You didn't say anything about the topic! This is why many fail exams and then blame village people or call lecturer wicked!

FxMasterz:


Trinity isn't the only topic that generates credal debates you know? So, credal debates don't include doctrines. Of course, there are several scriptural supports for Trinity.

I never said trinity is the only topic that generated credal debates. I wrote it in the facts and background what debates existed in Christianity among the church fathers, etc.

However, the topic is of no use to you as a person. I'll discuss that with a fellow Christian who heretically opposes trinity.

Is it not being myopic running away from your topic and wanting to jump to our own topic? Is this what your jesus and spirit thought you of fairness and justice?

Let's talk about Abraham and the ka'aba. Do you have any evidence or proof that Abraham founded the ka'aba?

This is complete nonsense. You prompted me to create a thread and then you shy away when the thread is created!

I will also be discussing the Kaaba with Muslims too!

We ask Allah to increase your IQ and guide you aright!

AbuTwins:
I never said trinity is the only topic that generated credal debates. I wrote it in the facts and background what debates existed in Christianity among the church fathers, etc.

Is it not being myopic running away from your topic and wanting to jump to our own topic? Is this what your jesus and spirit thought you of fairness and justice?



This is complete nonsense. You prompted me to create a thread and then you shy away when the thread is created!

I will also be discussing the Kaaba with Muslims too!

We ask Allah to increase your IQ and guide you aright!

I think you should focus on your internal credal debates in Islam. Right now, I'll like us to discuss where God is rather than who God is. Unprofitable debates about the Trinity with an unbeliever is useless.

You discussing the ka'aba with Muslims is useless because the issue of the ka'aba is not doctrinal. While I'll discuss other issues freely with you regarding Christianity. It's not wise to discuss doctrinal issues with an antichristian personality. To what purpose?

Ka'aba issue is not a doctrinal issue. You should learn to differentiate doctrines from history! You'll see that your prayers for good IQ should be for yourself and not for me.

Now, did Abraham found the ka'aba? Let's establish the truth here and dispell the lies.

AbuTwins:
I never said trinity is the only topic that generated credal debates. I wrote it in the facts and background what debates existed in Christianity among the church fathers, etc.

Is it not being myopic running away from your topic and wanting to jump to our own topic? Is this what your jesus and spirit thought you of fairness and justice?



This is complete nonsense. You prompted me to create a thread and then you shy away when the thread is created!

I will also be discussing the Kaaba with Muslims too!

We ask Allah to increase your IQ and guide you aright!

I have only be looking at my mentions without knowing that I'm already on a new thread. I'll respond accordingly.

[quote author=AbuTwins post=129406900]

Fxmasterz

1. If trinity was proven according to the Bible why the need for credal debates and endorsements?

Credal debates stem from individual or group understanding of particular portions of scripture. The existence of Credal debates do not imply something is not proven in scripture. Interpretations are based on different understandings.

2. Since you claim trinity exists somewhere in the Bible can you please show us trinity without eisegesis nor exegesis! I don't need any of your subjective premises here. Objectivity is what is needed! And do quote Biblical verses acceptable in all Bible versions not the ones present in KJV and not in RSV or NIV.

This is not a topic for an unbeliever to dabble into but I'll give you some clues;

1. God said He created man in His own image. Man himself is a triune being (Having Spirit, Soul and Body). God, in whose image man was created would most possibly be a triune being too.

2. Frequent references to the Trinity of God are found both in the Old and New Testaments. The concept of Father, Son and Holy Spirit were found in the Bible and not outside the Bible. 1 John 5:7 reads: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

AbuTwins:


You didn't say anything about the topic! This is why many fail exams and then blame village people or call lecturer wicked!

That is you.failing your exams. For i addressed your comment as i have a right to and not the topic, as i have a right not to address the topic especially as Fv is handling it and i do not see any material thing worth correcting.

And secondly, my addressing your comment to Fx impliedly shows i addreesed the topic in support of Fx. So, you failed your exam

FxMasterz:


Credal debates stem from individual or group understanding of particular portions of scripture. The existence of Credal debates do not imply something is not proven in scripture. Interpretations are based on different understandings.

Has there ever been a debate about whether God is One in Christianity? Has there ever been any debate in this regards? More so Arius was a Priest in the 4th Century who believed Jesus was not divine. It was the council of Nicaea that turned him and his opinion heretic! If a Christian Priest could believe Jesus was not divine in the 4th century and that the father is superior to Jesus that means the debate was skewed in favor of the majority who thought of adding Trinity to the Bible as it can't be proved without ambiguity from the Bible!

This is not a topic for an unbeliever to dabble into but I'll give you some clues;

When you quote our text we didn't say you are an unbeliever and mustn't touch our text or that you need one spirit to understand!

1. God said He created man in His own image. Man himself is a triune being (Having Spirit, Soul and Body). God, in whose image man was created would most possibly be a triune being too.

This is a false equivalence. Man is an entity. The Spirit cannot separate from the Body like Jesus, Spirit and Father exists in a Trinity. When God created Adam He breath the soul/spirit in to him.
Can we say when God created the Father he breath the soul/Spirit in the son/holy Spirit? Or how do we relate this to the trinity?
It doesn't make any sense equating man to the trinitarian triune!

2. Frequent references to the Trinity of God are found both in the Old and New Testaments. The concept of Father, Son and Holy Spirit were found in the Bible and not outside the Bible. 1 John 5:7 reads: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

I said this earlier but you still fell into it. Read again below:

2. Since you claim trinity exists somewhere in the Bible can you please show us trinity without eisegesis nor exegesis! I don't need any of your subjective premises here. Objectivity is what is needed! And do quote Biblical verses acceptable in all Bible versions not the ones present in KJV and not in RSV or NIV.

1 John 5:7 is one of the dubious verse and it reads:
King James Bible
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
New International Version
For there are three that testify:

New Living Translation
So we have these three witnesses—

English Standard Version
For there are three that testify:

Berean Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:

Berean Literal Bible
For there are three bearing testimony:

So you can see above that your trinity was proved from a dubious verse inserted by lovers of trinity among the early Church scribes!

Veecruz:


That is you.failing your exams. For i addressed your comment as i have a right to and not the topic, as i have a right not to address the topic especially as Fv is handling it and i do not see any material thing worth correcting.

And secondly, my addressing your comment to Fx impliedly shows i addreesed the topic in support of Fx. So, you failed your exam

Okay!

FxMasterz:


I think you should focus on your internal credal debates in Islam. Right now, I'll like us to discuss where God is rather than who God is. Unprofitable debates about the Trinity with an unbeliever is useless.

You discussing the ka'aba with Muslims is useless because the issue of the ka'aba is not doctrinal. While I'll discuss other issues freely with you regarding Christianity. It's not wise to discuss doctrinal issues with an antichristian personality. To what purpose?

Ka'aba issue is not a doctrinal issue. You should learn to differentiate doctrines from history! You'll see that your prayers for good IQ should be for yourself and not for me.

Now, did Abraham found the ka'aba? Let's establish the truth here and dispell the lies.

This discussion here is about trinity. And we still await anyone to give us Directs proofs for trinity in the Bible!
You can create your thread on Kaaba as I did here and mentioned you!

AbuTwins:


This discussion here is about trinity. And we still await anyone to give us Directs proofs for trinity in the Bible!
You can create your thread on Kaaba as I did here and mentioned you!

Trinity is a doctrinal issue among Christians. It's of no concern to a Muslim except he's thinking about practicing Christianity. And you don't become a Christian by thinking about practicing Christianity. You become a Christian by having an encounter with Jesus.

Steep:


Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Notice the use of 'we' 'us'.


Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

Note, the person speaking identifies himself as yahweh (1 person) he said the Lord God ( another person) and his Spirit ( another person has sent him. Making them three distinct persons.
The Trinity is not a new testament teaching God has already revealed it in the old testament though the Jews might not understand it.

Like he said, you are trying so hard to read what is not there .
Like Genesis 1:26..The conversation started in verse 25., it extended to verse 26. When Ezra was writing it, he never included chapters or verses...that was added by Christians to make the deception complete...
"Let us make man in our own image after our likeness....the "US" there means God the father (Elu or Enu) and God the mother(Ala, Ani or the earth) the earth provided the dust and all for creating the body while God provided the spirit that animated the body.(That is brought the body to life )..so like I always say, we are all God's spirit dwelling with in a physical body made from dust. When the body experiences "death" it means God takes his spirit and the empty body is buried after some ceremony, because the body used to house God's spirit. That is why God only gave us the laws/odinani/Torah...etc. they are the laws of existence. The spirit realm has its own laws .
There is only one Lord God creator of the universe..the name might carry according to different cultures and languages, But there is only One. The Igbos might call him Chineke and the yorubas Olodumare

sonmvayina:

"Let us make man in our own image after our likeness....the "US" there means God the father (Elu or Enu) and God the mother(Ala, Ani or the earth) the earth provided the dust and all for creating the body while God provided the spirit that animated the body.(..

See your madness is revealed! Genesis, Proverbd and John clearly show God The Father and The People around Him created the earth. So how then did the earth now become a God the mother?

[quote author=AbuTwins post=129413280]

Has there ever been a debate about whether God is One in Christianity? Has there ever been any debate in this regards? More so Arius was a Priest in the 4th Century who believed Jesus was not divine. It was the council of Nicaea that turned him and his opinion heretic! If a Christian Priest could believe Jesus was not divine in the 4th century and that the father is superior to Jesus that means the debate was skewed in favor of the majority who thought of adding Trinity to the Bible as it can't be proved without ambiguity from the Bible!

Is there not anyone who at one time or the other has had conflicting ideas regarding the doctrines of Islam? Can we say that Islamic ideologies are screwed in favour of the majority who hold contrary opinions? There's only one God. And that's who all christians serve.

When you quote our text we didn't say you are an unbeliever and mustn't touch our text or that you need one spirit to understand!

But it seems you failed to grasp the import of what I said. We don't argue with you regarding your internal doctrines, do we? We argue with you regarding moral or scientific claims, historical facts and testimonies borne by your fellow Muslims in your hafith and Tafsiri. Have you ever seen us coming for you regarding your doctrines?

This is a false equivalence. Man is an entity. The Spirit cannot separate from the Body like Jesus, Spirit and Father exists in a Trinity. When God created Adam He breath the soul/spirit in to him.

Man is one being with 3 components playing different roles in his life. Of course, those who do Astra projections leave their bodies behind to attend cosmic meetings or do some sorts of evil. A man dies when his spirit and soul leaves his body behind.

While man cannot physically separate those entities of his. That's not impossible for God. Man is just a miniature replica of whom God is in His essence.

Can we say when God created the Father he breath the soul/Spirit in the son/holy Spirit? Or how do we relate this to the trinity?
It doesn't make any sense equating man to the trinitarian triune!

That's why you must keep within the confines of your Islamic doctrines. What you wrote up there is not the ideology behind the Trinity. It is jargons as best, and of course, as you said, it's quite illogical. That's not what Trinity is.

There's nothing like God creating the Father jargons or Father breathing into His Son. Your understanding of these things is to be premised first on some basic fundamentals about God. You cannot discuss Trinity if you don't really know who God is.

I said this earlier but you still fell into it. Read again below:

1 John 5:7 is one of the dubious verse and it reads:
King James Bible
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
New International Version
For there are three that testify:

New Living Translation
So we have these three witnesses—

English Standard Version
For there are three that testify:

Berean Standard Bible
For there are three that testify:

Berean Literal Bible
For there are three bearing testimony:

So you can see above that your trinity was proved from a dubious verse inserted by lovers of trinity among the early Church scribes!

You should expect the translators to translate in line with their individual understanding of the Trinity concept. Have you considered the original Greek word for word? The verse was not originally written in English.

FxMasterz:

Trinity is a doctrinal issue among Christians. It's of no concern to a Muslim except he's thinking about practicing Christianity. And you don't become a Christian by thinking about practicing Christianity. You become a Christian by having an encounter with Jesus.

Do you know Jesus to encounter Jesus?
How do you encounter someone you don't know?
Abeg don't bring this here.

If you can't prove trinity according to the Bible then let me wait for others with more super charged holy spirit to prove it biblical!
And you claim trinity is Biblical yet just one authentic proof you can't bring!

AbuTwins:


This discussion here is about trinity. And we still await anyone to give us Directs proofs for trinity in the Bible!
You can create your thread on Kaaba as I did here and mentioned you!

The concept of Trinity is for christians and directed towards Christians knowing that we would understand it.

It is not for muslims and "not Christians"

Veecruz:


The concept of Trinity is for christians and directed towards Christians knowing that we would understand it.

It is not for muslims and "not Christians"

Show me where it is directed to Christians by Jesus in the Bible?

You are just creating a nuisance out of yourself!

AbuTwins:


Show me where it is directed to Christians by Jesus in the Bible?

You are just creating a nuisance out of yourself!

You are the one making a nuisance of yourself. What else is the Nicea council about and isnt the subject matter of discuss about Christianity?

When your Islamic council comment about islam, is it directed to Christians?

You are the one nuisancing yourself.

Veecruz:


You are the one making a nuisance of yourself. What else is the Nicea council about and isnt the subject matter of discuss about Christianity?

When your Islamic council comment about islam, is it directed to Christians?

You are the one nuisancing yourself.

K.

Only unintelligent people keep wailing about the trinity. God who's a spirit operates in duality ( the Father and also the begotten child who's the merciful Messiah). What are you finding difficult to understand there? You should know the world itself was created in duality.

Mohammad was simply unintelligent to not have known that and that was why the lunatic peadophilic criminal terrorist drank camel's urine.

Veecruz:


See your madness is revealed! Genesis, Proverbd and John clearly show God The Father and The People around Him created the earth. So how then did the earth now become a God the mother?

The truth has never denied the seeker..

It is the seeker who has denied the truth...

Stop fighting the it....it is about to burst through..

Which people where with him?
You know only what I said makes sense...

God was talking to the earth as she provided the dust for creating the body....

Ok, who are the ' people ' and how are they similar to man in image and likeness..

This is a spiritual story and you don't understand it...

Open a thread, let me open your eyes..

sonmvayina:

God was talking to the earth as she provided the dust for creating the body....

Now, its God talking to the earth, no more God Mother again!

No need to ask where you saw God talking to the earth in Genesis, only in your mad mind.

The truth is there is no backing for TRINITY in the Bible but since politicians in the 3rd century endorsed it most religionists following politicians wants to prove it's biblical whereas it's just a dogma having no scriptural backing!

Veecruz:


Now, its God talking to the earth, no more God Mother again!

No need to ask where you saw God talking to the earth in Genesis, only in your mad mind.

Earth is called mother Earth or mother nature...you need a male and a female to produce a son or daughter..I guess this is strange to you.... because you believe a woman can become pregnant without the input of a man...olodo, with no functional brain..

THAT GOD IS OMNIPOTENT, OMNIPRESENT AND HE IS THE WORD THAT WAS WITH HIM AT THE BEGINNING.