₦airaland Forum

MindHacker9009:
I have presented you with evidence which are the truth from the OT, but because you hate the truth and prefer to hold on the the invented story of the NT is the reason you are so confused now.

Now answer this question: Where in the OT did your God say he will send his only begotten son to come this world and" "I will also make him a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach ends of the earth."?

MindHacker9009:
Judas helped Jesus to fulfill the mission his father sent him to fulfill and even though the Roman soldiers mocked him and cast lots for his garment and they were not repentant, yet Jesus forgave them, but Jesus could not forgive Judas and his own people and the teachers of the Law by just saying father forgive all his people for they know not what they are doing.

This is prove that the Jesus story we have today was invented by the Roman empire.

SIRTee15:
Did the old testament ever mentioned the Messiah would be the salvation to the world?

Regarding begotten son, read this...

Psalm 2.7
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

FYI ANCIENT JUDIASM REGARD PSALM 2.7 AS A MESSIANIC PSALM.

MindHacker9009:
So what did Jesus ask his father to forgive the Roman soldiers for

Westerhoffe:
“Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?”
— John 6:70 (KJV)

Judas Iscariot was not a human like the Roman Soldiers… he was a devil.

MaxInDHouse:
Nooooooooo!

This is not what Jesus meant!

Remember Jesus also called Peter "Satan" {Matthew 16:23} that doesn't mean Peter is Satan nah rather Jesus is saying the thoughts running through Peter's mind at that moment originated from Satan.
The same is applicable to Judas Iscariot who was determined to be rich but met his waterloo in the process. 1Timothy 6:6-10
Judas thought he could use a stone to kill two birds by selling Jesus for money and later apologize after all Jesus has disappeared several times escaping assassins sent by Pharisees to kill him {Luke 4:29-30} so Judas' thought was an intelligent one from the viewpoint of any normal human but intelligence doesn't always translate to wisdom he should have listened attentively when Jesus was talking about his last moments on earth! John 14:19 compare to Matthew 7:24-27

MaxInDHouse:
Roman soldiers that executed Jesus acted on the orders from their superiors who thought Jesus must have been another rebel leader like what we have today called Boko Haram.
During the time Jesus was born a Galilean was parading himself as Christ but after committing a lot of atrocities he was captured by the Roman authorities and executed so all the thugs following him scattered, another rose few years after him with many zealots following him claiming he is the Christ and the same thing happened to him, regarding these two men Jesus later said:

"All those who have come in place of me are thieves and plunderers; but the sheep have not listened to them." John 10:8 compare to Act 5:36-37

So the Roman soldiers treated Jesus (whom they don't know) as another rebel leader since that's the report Pharisees brought against him! Luke 23:2

But as for Judas he knew everything the Christ stands for and was taught by the Christ himself yet he allowed the love of money to rob him off everlasting life! 1Timothy 6:6-10

Jesus' prayer can't work for someone who intentionally disregard what Christ taught due to love of money! Mark 8:36

Westerhoffe:
GOD would not have used a mere innocent man, who should have been saved, and then condemned him to eternal damnation, thereby depriving him of salvation.

MindHacker9009:
But why did Jesus not also direct his anger towards the Roman soldiers superiors who came and invaded his homeland, like he always did to his own people even the innocent tree he did not forgive:

In front of the Romans your Jesus is very gentle and remembers to forgive but in front of his own people he forgets about forgiveness:
Matthew 23:13: "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces."
Matthew 23:33: "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?"
John 8:44: "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires."
Matthew 11:20-24: "Then Jesus began to denounce the towns in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent."
Matthew 27:24-25: During Jesus’ trial, when Pilate offers to release Him, the crowd (made up of Jewish individuals) shouts: "His blood is on us and on our children!"
Luke 19:41-44: "The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you... They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you."

Even the tree that had not sinned, he could not forgive:
Matthew 21:18-19: "Early in the morning, as Jesus was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, 'May you never bear fruit again!' Immediately the tree withered."

MaxInDHouse:
The fig tree is an illustration showing that the Jewish nation has not produced the expected fruit of faith so the curse was for the Jewish nation not a literal tree.
The Romans don't have God's laws so if they go contrary to it or disregard any prophet God sent they are doing so UNKNOWINGLY unlike the Jews in whose laws it's written:

I (GOD) will raise up for them (Israel) from the midst of their brothers a prophet like you, and I will put my words in his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him. Indeed, I will require an account from the man who will not listen to my words that he will speak in my name. Deuteronomy 18:18-19

Jesus is the only prophet who proved to be like a God in Israel just as Moses did {Exodus 7:1 compare to Isaiah 9:6} that's why the same Jesus was used to pronounce God's judgment on that nation! Matthew 21:43; 23:37-38

MindHacker9009:
Then why not just take the whole New Testament as a literal story instead of picking what you like to be a literal story.
Show where in the Old Testament God forgave nations like the Roman empire that were not following his laws apart from Nineveh that repented.

MaxInDHouse:
When elderly people are talking they often use idioms and proverbs in their utterances and they don't expect everyone to grasp what they are saying because such information is not for people who aren't ready to work with them so those who understands will have to explain to those who wants to know what is required to work with the wise and elderly people.

I don't know what you mean by the highlighted can you please simplify it?

MindHacker9009:
So you were with the elders when they were discussing about Jesus and the fig tree for you to know the fig tree was literal.

MindHacker9009:
If you don't understand then it's you that needs to explain what you wrote hear and show where God is happy with such nations in the Old Testament: "The Romans don't have God's laws so if they go contrary to it or disregard any prophet God sent they are doing so UNKNOWINGLY unlike the Jews in whose laws it's written"

MaxInDHouse:
According to God's word a faithful servants of God may loose out completely if care is not taken.

“But my righteous one will live by reason of faith,” and “if he shrinks back, I have no pleasure in him.” Now we are not the sort who shrink back to destruction, but the sort who have faith for the preserving of our lives. Hebrews 10:38-39

Remember Judas was with the twelve when they performed miracles in Jesus name {Luke 9:1} he was also with Jesus when all other disciples abandoned Jesus {John 6:64-68} which means he was also faithful from the onset but because he did not remain strong in the faith that's why God was displeased with him!

Westerhoffe:
All that happened to our LORD JESUS CHRIST is as pre-planned.
His birth: Isaiah 9.
His betrayal: Psalms 41:9
His suffering: Lamentations 3:27-30.
His trial and death: Isaiah 53.
Everything was pre-planned to be.
Nothing was by coincidence.
Do you think that Our LORD JESUS CHRIST came to live forever on earth?
He came for a mission, and the mission was accomplished.
Did you not read the LORD said:

“I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.”
— John 13:18 (KJV)
Or why do you think He told His disciples three good times He is going to Jerusalem to be betrayed, killed, and will rise again on the third day?
Or do you think He wasn't aware of what happened before they happened?
The case of Judas Iscariot is not the same as everyone else on earth.
You just like arguing and explaining everything carnally.

MaxInDHouse:
God never destined anyone to be evil it's totally against His personality each person chose what they want to do with their lives otherwise God is to blame not the evildoers if God destined people.

Westerhoffe:
"GOD never destined anyone to be evil."

That was why He chose a devil for the work that leads to perdition.

Westerhoffe:
"GOD never destined anyone to be evil."
That was why He chose a devil for the work that leads to perdition.

Westerhoffe:
"GOD never destined anyone to be evil."

That was why He chose a devil for the work that leads to perdition.

MindHacker9009:
But if truly Judas was a devil, why then did Judas show remorse after he betrayed Jesus, when did the devil started showing remorse?

MaxInDHouse:
Indisputable point!
Satan according to the Bible has never showed remorse because remorse leads to repentance so if Judas Iscariot is devil then why did he show remorse?

The truth is found in Paul's letter to Timothy:

To be sure, there is great gain in godly devotion along with contentment. For we have brought nothing into the world, and neither can we carry anything out. So, having food and clothing, we will be content with these things. But those who are determined to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and many senseless and harmful desires that plunge men into destruction and ruin. For the love of money is a root of all sorts of injurious things, and by reaching out for this love some have been led astray from the faith and have stabbed themselves all over with many pains. 1Timothy 6:6-10

The highlighted in blue is what happened to Judas Iscariot not that God chose him rather he gave in to selfish desires which makes him easy to get for Satan!

MindHacker9009:
The verse you quoted did not apply to the Roman invaders and the rich at the time buying/selling slaves and the slaves were even told: Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ Ephesians 6:5.

It seems it's for the poor so that they will not try hustling for money.

MaxInDHouse:
Romans didn't enslave the Jews they colonized them just as English colonized Nigerians that's why some Jews are allowed to nationalize as Romans.

Slavery was everywhere back then so Paul was telling slaves who embrace Christianity not to think the love Christ commanded believers to have among themselves changed their statues!

MindHacker9009:
What makes slavery and invading another peoples nation ok then but not now? So it's only betraying Jesus that make someone a devil! The New Testament was written after the: The First Jewish-Roman War (66–73 CE): Event: After the Roman army, led by Titus, destroyed the Second Temple in 70 CE, many Jews were taken as slaves.
But for now we can leave this for later.

MaxInDHouse:
Nobody will invade you if you surrender to be a subject under the rule of such a commander.
Today if Americans come to say they want to make Nigeria one of their states it's not about slavery but ruling Nigeria from America.

That's what happened back then!

MindHacker9009:
That was not what happened back then.

War was by numbers back then. The Roman empire sent seventy thousand soldiers to Israel and the Jews fought back but they did not have the same numbers as the Romans which led to the Roman taken Jerusalem.

You can surrender to Mali if they match on your town without putting up a fight!

MaxInDHouse:
I will surrender to any ruler that proved to be greater among all of them until God comes to establish righteous rule!

MindHacker9009:
And they will display their idol in your kingdom hall as the number on religion for you to worship and your Jehovah as secondary and if you agree they there will be peace

MaxInDHouse:
Whatever they want we will give them as long as we can go about preaching and teaching the Kingdom of God the Hall is not a problem after all we can gather elsewhere for instructions on how to go about the work

MindHacker9009:
No if they find you gathering elsewhere without putting their idol first then you and others in that gathering will be sold as as slaves

MaxInDHouse:
You're really funny!
Slaves to where?
Ọmọ anywhere they take us it's preaching and teaching galore!

MindHacker9009:
When you have to fear your master worshipping idols as in Ephesians 6:5: Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. So you will have no choice but to follow and worship your master's idols first before Jesus Christ.