Action President. He took a wise decision. Nigeria is still spending money calling pity party on the issue.

I'm very not sure about this whole subsidy thing because it has world bank/IMF written all over it, europe & america is broke, & IMF policies have always further impoverished countries that have listened to them, China stopped listening to IMF, Brazil, India, If we can only sit down & think deep on how to solve Nigeria's problems & solve it our way, no 2 situations can be alike, Nigeria is a unique country that needs unique policies to take her to the next level, the world bank is against socialist structures as it limits foreign domination. America criticises all socialist economies, yet its capitalist economy is the world's biggest debtor.

@ sleek, I don't think capitalist ideas are bad for us.

Capitalism is an economic system that became dominant in the Western world following the demise of feudalism. There is no consensus on the precise definition nor on how the term should be used as a historical category. There is general agreement that elements of capitalism include private ownership of the means of production, creation of goods or services for profit or income, the accumulation of capital, competitive markets, voluntary exchange, and wage labor. The designation is applied to a variety of historical cases, varying in time, geography, politics and culture.

Economists, political economists and historians have taken different perspectives on the analysis of capitalism. Economists usually emphasize the degree that government does not have control over markets (laissez faire), and on property rights. Most political economists emphasize private property, power relations, wage labour, class and emphasize capitalism as a unique historical formation. Capitalism is generally viewed as encouraging economic growth. The extent to which different markets are free, as well as the rules defining private property, is a matter of politics and policy, and many states have what are termed mixed economies.

Capitalism gradually spread throughout Europe, and in the 19th and 20th centuries, it provided the main means of industrialization throughout much of the world.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

I guess I am a capitalist by the definition above.

Compare socialism. Socialism  is an economic system characterized by social ownership[dubious – discuss] of the means of production and cooperative management of the economy; or a political philosophy advocating such a system. "Social ownership" may refer to any one of, or a combination of, the following: cooperative enterprises, common ownership, direct public ownership or autonomous State enterprises.

Socialist economies are based upon production for use and the direct allocation of economic inputs to satisfy economic demands and human needs (use value); accounting is based on physical quantities of resources, some physical magnitude, or a direct measure of labour-time.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

I think we have been practicing so much of socialism for 50 years and it has failed us woefully. It's time to move over to capitalism. Socialism favors things like NEPA, NITEL, NNPC and of course the subject matter: subsidy. Capitalism on the other hand brings in players like MTN, GE, Mobil, Dangote etc. These are the real "growers" of the economy.

@ efisher, capitalist economies create unequal societies, lack fiscal discipline due to its Jungle like nature (survival of the fittest), it seeks to cheat to make more money, it does have its benefits, but as long as we learn from western economies, we would only end up like them, America's debt is embarrassing, spain is broke, greece, name it.
All I'm saying is this as long as this subsidy thing is coming from IMF, I don't trust it, this people know us to be corrupt, the subsidy money would be looted with impunity, how can you remove subsidy & hand the money over to a government that clearly has a faulty structure, we still operate a sharing & contracts signing mentality, not a wealth creation mentality, the money would be shared & contracts that won't be executed would be awarded,
Oil windfall during Babangida- what happened to the excess funds?
Excess crude funds during Obasanjo what did Jonathan do with it?
Restructure to rebuild, I hope u get me, I support subsidy removal but I know the money would not save Nigerian economy from collapsing

Unbridled capitalism destroys really fast, unbridled socialism destroys really slow. What Nigeria needs is to apply capitalist and socialist principles where appropriate.

There is no nation on earth that relies on pure capitalism or socialism.

The prepondarance of the evidence favors more of capitalism than socialism, but the slope to disaster on both ends are very steep.

@efisher, you're right about that but corruption & not socialism failed us, all the IMF does is ensure that we reduce investments in critical sectors of the economy which makes us dependent & of course makes western nations richer.
Nigerians don't love Nigeria, so they have the 'its not my father's business mentality'
Let us address the structure of this country & all will be well
@koruji, on point

Gbawe: If you see issues clearly you will note that it is highly likely Yar Adua and GEJ, without doubt, used "independent" marketers

Why tell lies? Or speak from both sides of the mouth?
How can something be "highly likely" and "without doubt?"

Lets stick to facts, without seeding our arguments with dishonesty and meat sellers innuendo.

@sleek and koruji, your points are well taken. There's a lot of sense in them. Well done.

koruji:

Unbridled capitalism destroys really fast, unbridled socialism destroys really slow. What Nigeria needs is to apply capitalist and socialist principles where appropriate.

There is no nation on earth that relies on pure capitalism or socialism.

The prepondarance of the evidence favors more of capitalism than socialism, but the slope to disaster on both ends are very steep.

Capitalism and socialism should not be viewed as dogma . They are both means to an end to be adapted flexibly and proactively to the condition of the day. I think for where Nigeria finds itself today, we must move towards welfarism, socialism and massive government spending on infrastructural/human development with , as much as possible, involvement of the private sector in PPP arrangements. 

There must be a consistent effort to reinvest resources towards developing and uplifting the average Nigerian so he can in turn develop his nation, move away from crime and the idleness , for example, providing ready recruits for boko haram currently. The GEJ Government is courting chaos via its pursuance of anti-people policies that will horribly make life , overnight, unbearable for Nigerians. The implication for inflation, crime and social vices (prostitution et al) and general chaos is , at best, something no one can quantify.

efisher:
*I'm ignoring every unnecessary and immature squabble with other posters*

@ Topic, The target of fuel subsidy removal is not to solve all our problems but to ensure the more efficient use of our resources. I have interacted with some of the top players in the refining business and one point that stands out whenever they talk about Nigeria is the fact that Nigeria is in a good position to refine locally except for the impracticable policies that stand in the way. What do they mean? Two major (basic) ingredients are required for success in this business. They are:
1. Access to free on board (FOB) Crude
2. Access to Cost Insurance and Freight (CIF) market.

Guess what: we have both! The problem however is that the CIF market is subsidized and regulated by the government. The only antidote therefore is to deregulate it. Subsidy however, stands in the way of deregulation.

The argument at this point should not be whether or not subsidy should be removed but how it should be removed. Should it be in phases? Should an alternative be provided b4 its removal? Should a new market to support local refining be created? Etc. These are the issues on which we should be exerting our brain power.

The above is a truly brilliant summary. We run everything in Nigeria upside down. It is suprising that govts have expected private refineries to take off when the CIF market is subsidised; there would be no way for them to compete and turn a profit. We need to ask ourselves why not one of the 18 private refinery licenses awarded in Obj's time have borne fruit.
We cannot continue with ad hoc policies of military regimes that absolutely lack in philosophical grounding and have led us to the barren ground we now occupy.

The fuel subsidy is a communist policy that effectively puts every woman, child and man on welfare, yet we claim to be a capitalist nation. It is a similar policy that see's every state and LG on welfare with monthly beggar paychecks from Abuja, yet we wish to develop.

For us to benefit from petroleum, the sector needs to be entirely deregulated as applies elsewhere. To that end, it is also good to see that among the plans for the subsidy removal is a new framework that will see NNPC stop having a hand licenses and instead becoming a standards body with no money to share out. Hopefully, the PIB will also be given accelerated viewing and passed in the next few months; then the full benefits of deregulation will become visible.

The IMF is clearly behind all this subsidy thing, the coordinating minister of the economy happens to be a world bank stooge, subsidy is bad but this present government policy has all the trappings of a greek gift, read the link below.
I don't trust this government

http://www.globalissues.org/article/3/structural-adjustment-a-major-cause-of-poverty

This means a 12.5 kg gas cylinder will now sell at GHc17.02 (N1,796.76)

This same cylinder sells for 2800 - 3000 naira and we dont import the gas. We have it in abundance.
This may be our fate if full deregulation is allowed. It is necessary but ill timed and the government CANNOT be trusted

am currently in Ghana. transport fare has skyrocketed and the populace are not finding it funny. the Ghanaian govt removing oil subsidy shld nt be the yardstick for us to justify our govt effort to remove subsidy. we operate in different political and socio economy terrain from Ghana

I also live in Ghana and I must tell u no one is finding it funny, cos d ghanaians are saying this was not what atta mills promised them when he was elected, the reason why they are not marching through the streets is because next year is an election year, they will show their grievance @ the polls.

The other point I will like to raise is why is it always west Africa the IMF targets, why didn't they go to Venezuela or Brazil and tell them that crap of removing subsidy? Why?

@hisson3, they would if they can plant a puppet in power like our dear Jonathan, why do you think Jonathan says he's hailed internationally, simple he's a loyal puppet, market liberalisation has all the looks of the world bank, SAP, austerity measures, subsidy removal, deregulation, same thing, different names, it would only result in serious depreciation of the naira, which would lead to a crash in oil prices, increased poverty, increased external borrowing to try & control the inflation, sustained dependence on imported products, the already unfavourably cost of doing business would hit the roof, making it even more cheaper to import.
IMF & World bank. = EVIL!!!

osifred:

am currently in Ghana. transport fare has skyrocketed and the populace are not finding it funny. the Ghanaian  govt removing oil subsidy shld nt be the yardstick for us to justify our govt effort to remove subsidy. we operate in different political and socio economy terrain from Ghana

This is what I am trying to tell some folks here. Even before this deregulation, effimax (unleaded) was circa GHc 1.48 per litre (around N155-N160) in Ghana. The increase today is 15%. How can anyone compare that to possibly up to 150% increase Nigerians may face?

Imagine the subsides have been removed, fuel is increased 100-125% yet with this same GEJ, Who says another corruption cabal will not emanate to consume and siphon the revenues derived from the action. Let's learn from history and please not from too far a time ago, OBJ did increase pump price but to what avail? Where are the dividends? Jonathan should go ahead and remove it or what do you think beaf? The next president out of the PDP will simply tax the commodity based on grounds of development and amelioration of the people's "the same if not worse than now" future circumstance. Beaf wake-up or else Your children will have no nationality only to be mere slave to the okonjo-iweala's, lamido's, ebele's, IBB's, OBJ's etc. Their empires has already begun and it will be serviced with the blood of your children if you continue to wallow in your sentimental hypocrisy,

The same naija i grew up in. hmmmm. I won't be suprised that the proceeds of subsidy removal would end up in another set of cabal's pocket.  So the Nigerian masses suffer most. 

Nigeria is a land flowing with milk and honey

Gbawe:

This is what I am trying to tell some folks here. Even before this deregulation, effimax (unleaded) was circa GHc 1.48 per litre (around N155-N160) in Ghana. The increase today is 15%. How can anyone compare that to possibly up to 150% increase Nigerians may face?

I get your argument and like you see the possible effect in Nigeria as quite dibilitating for the economy as reliance on fuel in industry and businesses is quite significant when compared to the so called developed economies who do not experience the same failure with their electrification when compared to that in Nigeria. Even at current levels, for a lot of companies, use of fuel has eroded profits and in some cases made some ventures virtually unprofitable.

Even in their homes, One family member of mine who lives in a 4 bed bungalow is billed 14k per month by PHCN and then spends close to 10k on fuel for their generator over a month and this is a residential place.

The big question should be where the subsidy is removed is it going to be used to improve electrification or could it be restricted to companies who can demonstrate its use for the purpose of infrastructure development in refining oil in Nigeria and the consequent employment prospect this can generate.

Even large and developed economies who plan for the long term provide different kinds of subsidies to different sectors of their economy. Check subsidies to the agricultural sector for example and to auto industries to name a few by the US and UK.

Electrification in Nigeria is a major issue that affects all and subsidising fuel is crucial at it helps to alleviate somewhat the problems posed by the failure of the government to get this right and their efforts should be directed to dealing with this anomaly and not in creating further stresses to an already stressful situation. We have not even started to look at the consequent effect of rises in transportation, produce. I actually think serious consideration should be given to the overall consequence of this decision or it might be the last straw that breaks the camels back .

A foreign solution is not necessarily a fit for Nigeria as you have to look at the local conditions and the options and alternatives available.

Nigerians are opposed to the "timing" of subsidy removal and not the concept of removing subsidy itself. What are the major reasons?

1. Lack of constant power supply to power businesses, industries and homes. At the present cost of fuel, the high rates of powering industries have made many of the multinational manufacturers to shift their head office to the same GHANA which of course boast of constant power. And then you want to remove subsidy in that kind of situation. The hardship will cause chaos beyond imagination. It will be a catalyst for reaction by the Masses. someone is about to cut off his own head. Impeachment/forced resignation is not far off. let he who has ears hear the word of the Lord. provide constant electricity before daring such.

2. The inability of Nigeria to refine crude oil at the maximum capacity resulting in importation of about 80% of our daily petrol needs. if we are going to remove subsidy and we are importing that amount of petrol, who rally determines the pricing? If the pricing is determined by the same cabal government claim are responsible for our present situation, what is the guarantee that they would not ignore the sufferings and shoot price into the sky cause of high demand in Nigeria? If we are going to remove subsidy, lets fix the existing refineries to refine at maximum capacity. even if we don't build new ones yet.

3. Lack of convenient alternative transportation means and bad road network. Let's have rail, let's have low energy cars and buses. let's have good roads.

THIS GOVERNMENT SHOULD STOP PROMISING US GOOD THINGS TO COME FROM FUEL SUBSIDY REMOVAL. THEY SHOULD USE OUR EXISTING REVENUE TO PROVIDE THE THREE THINGS LISTED ABOVE. THEN WE WILL TRUST THEM TO REMOVE SUBSIDY. WE WON'T NEED TO USE FUEL EVERYDAY OF OUR LIFE.
I CAN BET THERE ARE MANY GHANIANS WHO HAVE NOT TOUCHED FUEL IN 5/10 YEARS. YET THE JONATHANEESE ARE QUICK TO COMPARE GHANA AND OTHER COUNTRIES TO NIGERIA WHERE BUSINESSES CANNOT RUN WITHOUT FUEL AND GENERATOR.

MASS REVOLT HE WANTS, MASS REVOLT HE WILL GET.

@ soulfood, I strongly agree with you on the following:

[Quote]Nigerians are opposed to the "timing" of subsidy removal and not the concept of removing subsidy itself. What are the major reasons?

1. Lack of constant power supply to power businesses, industries and homes. At the present cost of fuel, the high rates of powering industries have made many of the multinational manufacturers to shift their head office to the same GHANA which of course boast of constant power. And then you want to remove subsidy in that kind of situation. The hardship will cause chaos beyond imagination. It will be a catalyst for reaction by the Masses. someone is about to cut off his own head. Impeachment/forced resignation is not far off. let he who has ears hear the word of the Lord. provide constant electricity before daring such.

2. The inability of Nigeria to refine crude oil at the maximum capacity resulting in importation of about 80% of our daily petrol needs. if we are going to remove subsidy and we are importing that amount of petrol, who rally determines the pricing? If the pricing is determined by the same cabal government claim are responsible for our present situation, what is the guarantee that they would not ignore the sufferings and shoot price into the sky cause of high demand in Nigeria? If we are going to remove subsidy, lets fix the existing refineries to refine at maximum capacity. even if we don't build new ones yet.

3. Lack of convenient alternative transportation means and bad road network. Let's have rail, let's have low energy cars and buses. let's have good roads.[/Quote]

The approach the FG is taking is a much more painful one. By removing the subsidy NOW, we will be forced to jump start all 3 points you listed.

-Refineries will flourish and competition will drive down prices.

- The inflated demand (due to vices like smuggling) will help reduce importation.

- People will be forced to go for more energy efficient systems bearing in mind the high cost of energy.
Furthermore we can save our children the headache by removing it NOW and enduring the pains.

All these in addition to the points made earlier including strangling the smuggling market and creating jobs from the influx of refineries etc.

The single most adverse effect of removing it NOW is inflation as many have rightly pointed out. It will be nice if we can think up suggestions to help mitigate against that.

Well done for your insightful contributions.

Sorry I meant "reduction in the inflated demand. . ." I'm mobile

Chei! I dey fear o.

@soulfood, gabbytabby and nyxus.

Great point guys. What I am yet to see with one single fan of subsidy removal is honesty and a pro-people admission of what we can all see. Nigerians are "living in hell" (Yar Adua)

We must then ask GEJ fans and blind apologist:

Why is "leaner Govt not possible"? Why is cost-cutting and the reduction of waste not an option for GEJ as a way to raise what they tell us subsidy gulps?

I am sorry, but I view many GEJ fans as personally dishonest people. I would have withdrawn my support for a man leading the most hideously expensive democracy in the world yet cowardly and wickedly believes he must place the burden of sacrifice on Nigerians through abrubtly removing about the only benefit they derive from their oil wealth. Of all the major oil producing nations, we already pay the highest amount for fuel bar Dubai. Yet the folks of Dubai will never complain because, unlike us, they have 24/7 electricity and well-developed infrastructure.

I see GEJ fans as wicked people with how they want to encourage his weakness and unwilligness to confront the scam element of subsidy. It is highly wicked to do anything other than phase out subsidy gradually when, and only when, certain things are in place. Responsible, brave and pro-people leaders will never do what GEJ is doing.

Look at our ridiculous recurrent expenditure (circa 73%) made hideously bloated with grotesque provisions such N991.00 million for feeding GEJ and Sambo and god knows how much for maintaining a retinue of superflous special advisors like Sarah Jibril and Bianca Ojukwu!!!!!

In so far as GEJ is unwilling to make personal sacrifice and urge other public officials to follow suit, why would any decent person back the wickedly hypocritical actions of such an ostensibly wicked and anti-people President ? Never mind that a large part of the N1.3 trillion paid out in subsidy from  Jan to Nov is scam carried out with the full compliance of the NNPC, It is Nigerians who must pay for the weakness and compromised limitations of GEJ.

Who in their right man thinks that a fearless, committed and pro-people President cannot raise close to N1 trillion if ruthlessly dedicated to cutting waste and changing how things are done for the better? Amosun (Ogun governor) wrote the legislative arm and succeeded in getting them to cut wages for government officials to include himself!!! GEJ did not even bother trying. Instead he announce that "leaner government not possible" while going on to personally increase bureacracy, profligacy and waste !!!!!

We are only having this debate because of the nature and compromises of GEJ and the personal dishonesty of his fans that leads them to ignore what is glaring.

GEJ is a highly profligate and callous person who is only insisting on subsidy removal because he is forbidden from raising money from anything that touches the interests of the AGIPs (any government in power). This is why virtually all AGIPs in Nigeria backed him passionately with everything they had i.e cash and mobilisation support. They are now gaining their reward with how GEJ leaves their interests alone yet insist ordinary Nigerians must be the sacrificial Lambs. We don't need a President like GEJ and we certainly dont need anything that jacks up the price , by up to 150%, of what runs our economy while hideous waste, profligacy and corruption remains the order of the day.

@jmaine, it seems u read my mind. Seriously I've tried hard to ignore it but I think I need to drop these lines:

Can somebody be this immature? We've been having a healthy debate for sometime now and then in comes the all knowing "saint" saying:

All GEJ supporters are dishonest
All GEJ fans are wicked
Bla bla bla!

Mr Perfect, focus on the topic and stop acting like a rabid dog. You hate GEJ; we have heard you. You can as well make your points without punctuating your arguments with convulsive and needless insults!

This topic is about fuel subsidy and not some worthless "fan club". You can continue the insults if you like. This time, I'll just keep mute so as not to derail the thread.

jmaine:

^
GEJ fans are wicked people bla bla bla . .Interesting . .all for sour gripes and not being on the same bandwagon train as you . . .When people utter same words you term them as being emotional . . .

Guess you are now primed for more direct shotz . .so expect same . . . especially when what you stand up for is as distasteful as what you chose to attack . . what is the objectivity you stand for . . .My answer null . . .

What is your problem if not guilty conscience ? If you are a GEJ fan who does not think he is wicked, why has this stung you? My friend, there is no two ways to view this other than conclude those who speak in blind defense of GEJ are wicked. It is wickedness to see the profligacy and waste going on under GEJ yet agree with him that it is Nigerians, already overburdened, who must bear the brunt of sacrifice. 

Unless I missed it, when have you and others ever spoken as if you understand the priority and heirachical duty of leadership? Is it not sheer wickedness that GEJ has not made one single decent effort to cut waste and profligacy yet he can comfortably put the onus of fund raising at the feet of the masses? David Cameron, the leader of a rich country, introduced cuts and flew on commercial airlines. That is a good man tuned in to the situation of his people. What sacrifice has GEJ made?

My friend, many,many have described the fuel subsidy policies of GEJ as "wicked" so if you want keep playing Ostrich by making this about Gbawe while ignoring what GEJ is glaringly failing to do. It would also be those who are "wicked" who would blindly seek to provide mitigation for such nonsense. Dont derail the thread. Tell us why GEJ cannot seek to cut waste in his own government or get out of my face with your emotional behaviour .

I never addressed you, so why the bile? If what I stand for is "distasteful" then what you stand for is anti-human, evil and wicked. It takes sheer wickedness to blindly endorse the "wicked" action of a man who can raise the money he claims to need from an overbloated system that can [size=14pt]comfortably[/size] afford it yet chooses to harass those who are already overburdened to stretching point.

efisher:

@jmaine, it seems u read my mind. Seriously I've tried hard to ignore it but I think I need to drop these lines:

Can somebody be this immature? We've been having a healthy debate for sometime now and then in comes the all knowing "saint" saying:

All GEJ supporters are dishonest
All GEJ fans are wicked
Bla bla bla!

Mr Perfect, focus on the topic and stop acting like a rabid dog. You hate GEJ; we have heard you. You can as well make your points without punctuating your arguments with convulsive and needless insults!

This topic is about fuel subsidy and not some worthless "fan club". You can continue the insults if you like. This time, [/b]I'll just keep mute so as not to derail the thread.

Get lost. You are nothing but a worthless coward always taking sly and indirect digs. You are always to be found using slyness to disguise the decieful character glaring from what you write.  I will prove it here easily. Decietfully, and because you are about enduringly focusing on individuals and cowardly character assasination, you claim this topic "is about fuel subsidy" as if I am talking off-topic .

What have I discussed here that is not about fuel subsidy? [b]Prove I have taken the topic away from fuel subsidy!!!! Am I not talking about subsidy when I say you should not use occurences and peculiar circumstances in a Country very different to Nigeria in justifying subsidy removal in Nigeria? Or is It is just that you are too dishonest to admit the truth and agree others have a valid point?

Even when I say GEJ fans are wicked, that is about subsidy too because I made it clear that it is wicked to support putting the onus of fund raising insensitively at the feet of ordinary Nigerians while GEJ refuses, point blank, to cut the unacceptably huge cost of running Government !!! How can anyone who is not wicked back such an irresponsible and anti-people style of leadership?

Do you have any idea of the waste deployed to 'run' Government in Nigeria? You think such waste is not more than the N1.3 trillion used to 'fund' fuel subsidy in 11 months? Yet you are here focusing obdurately on subsidy removal without even at all wishing to acknowledge how the Government of GEJ is putting the Cart before the Horse everywhere.

Everything I have discussed is connected with subsidy if only you are not too dishonest and one-sided to note so. If GEJ seriously took on the wasteful arrangement in place currently , then there would be no urgency to insiston subsidy removal which will be very damaging in all ramifications. Instead GEJ is adding to the problem via keeping profligacy and corruption in place

Your jibe about "worthles fan club" just shows what an immature and bad-belle riddled brat you are for thinking I am concerned with any award. It must pain you that someone you clearly dislike is held in good esteem by others. I asked for no award but if my "worthless fan club" bothers you then hug a transformer my friend.

Nigeria a joke? Or a comic