You can read the bible from Genesis to Revelation and it will be of no value to you.

"In the beginning was the word and the word was with God, In him was life, and that life was the light of men."

The Holy Spirit illuminates our minds to grasp the deep treasures of scripture and to quicken these words in our hearts, giving us the ability to obey them.

Only God can in his infinite mercy and love reveal his word to people , but God does not engage arrogant proud people in discourse, he leaves them to their folly till they come to a state of humility where he is able to shower his mercy and revelation on such poor souls.

This is the portion of all those who try to wrench meanings out of scripture without any Holy Spirit revelation.

"'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'

We need humility to be received by God, the arrogant will always be rejected , except God in his mercy breaks them down to the point of humility.

In summary therefore, trying to explain to scripture to a pagan, is like trying to convince a blind man that the sky is blue and the trees are green.

May God open their eyes.

@ frosbel

The Holy Spirit illuminates our minds to grasp the deep treasures of scripture and to quicken these words in our hearts, giving us the ability to obey them.

2Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

May God open their eyes.

amen

God speaks to people based on the level of their knowledge and understanding, the issue of the Holy spirit comes in at the moment God decides to reveal herself to anyone no matter whether the person is converted or not. The Holy spirit is always read to bright the light of God's word to our mind.

highland:

God speaks to people based on the level of their knowledge and understanding, the issue of the Holy spirit comes in at the moment God decides to reveal herself to anyone no matter whether the person is converted or not. The Holy spirit is always read to bright the light of God's word to our mind.

The Holy Spirit does indeed reveal the word of God to the humble and not the proud.

The revelation of God to sinners is with respect to salvation.

10And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. 11And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: 12That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Mark 4.

Please o, from my reading of the scripture I understand that it is referring to parables and why Jesus spoke in parables. I didn't realise that it was a reference to the whole of scriptures. In fact I'm quite sure that it is not a reference to scriptures as a whole. I think that this is another case of convenient conflation of biblical passages.

the convenience is that it promotes the idea of 'you can't understand the bible with out holy spirit'. Yet when Jesus subsequently explained the parable to the disciples he didn't first give them the holy spirit. All he did was explain when each element of the parable represented spiritually. It seems to me to be just an allegory like any other allegory that can be understood by any mind that applies itself once you know what the various elements are representing.

Since we are told that holy spirit didn't come until Jesus died and went to heaven it follows, from this manner of reasoning, that the disciples couldn't have understood anything Jesus said to them while he was with them and Jesus was just wasting his breath teaching them and all the other people.

This 'holy spirit get out clause' that pentecostals use is really starting to irk me.

Pastor AIO:

  Mark 4.

Please o, from my reading of the scripture I understand that it is referring to parables and why Jesus spoke in parables.  I didn't realise that it was a reference to the whole of scriptures.  In fact I'm quite sure that it is not a reference to scriptures as a whole.  I think that this is another case of convenient conflation of biblical passages.

the convenience is that it promotes the idea of 'you can't understand the bible with out holy spirit'.  Yet when Jesus subsequently explained the parable to the disciples he didn't first give them the holy spirit.  All he did was explain when each element of the parable represented spiritually.  It seems to me to be just an allegory like any other allegory that can be understood by any mind that applies itself once you know what the various elements are representing. 

Since we are told that holy spirit didn't come until Jesus died and went to heaven it follows, from this manner of reasoning, that the disciples couldn't have understood anything Jesus said to them while he was with them and Jesus was just wasting his breath teaching them and all the other people.

This 'holy spirit get out clause' that pentecostals use is really starting to irk me. 

"But it was to us that God revealed these things by his Spirit. For his Spirit searches out everything and shows us God's deep secrets." - 1 Corinthians 2:10

In other words there are deep secrets that ONLY the Spirit of GOD can bring to light in our minds for a proper grasp of their meanings.

The Holy Spirit does indeed convict sinful man of his sins and will use salvation relating scriptures to fulfill this purpose.

However a baby has to crawl before it starts to walk, many of us here, want to understand the 'meaty' parts of scripture without having tasted the milk of the word. Similarly, a new swimmer, starts to learn how to swim in shallow water before he/she incrementally graduates to deeper waters.

In conclusion, we cannot understand the deep truths of GOD if they are not revealed by his Spirit , since his Spirit inspired these verses in the first place.

With prayer and humility , God will always show mercy to even non-believers and bring to light aspects of scripture that will lead them to salvation not to arguments.

without the Holy Spirit, Christianity is mere religion

Ironically telling thread topic. Without The Holy Spirit Forget It.
Did anyone catch the truth, yet?

Jesus is not important according to the header, but the holy spirit is or nothing as in forget it.

[Quote]"But it was to us that God revealed these things by his Spirit. For his Spirit searches out everything and shows us God's deep secrets." - 1 Corinthians 2:10[/Quote]Searches out, instead of knowing all, all the time? You can fool all sometime, fool some all the time, but you cant fool all all the time, frosbel.

Sweetnecta:

Searches out, instead of knowing all, all the time? You can fool all sometime, fool some all the time, but you cant fool all all the time, frosbel.

Not to worry , I do not expect you to understand 

How can you understand , when you have crammed that plagiarised junk into your head  , first of all, we need to detoxicate your  brain from all that pioson you have learnt from Childhood  !!!!

I trust, this is what we are doing to play our small part.

it still all doesnt make sense 2 me
why i will need the holy spirit to understand "an english translated bible"

frosbel:

You can read the bible from Genesis to Revelation and it will be of no value to you.

"In the beginning was the word and the word was with God, In him was life, and that life was the light of men."

The Holy Spirit illuminates our minds to grasp the deep treasures of scripture and to quicken these words in our hearts, giving us the ability to obey them.

Only God can in his infinite mercy and love reveal his word to people , but God does not engage arrogant proud people in discourse, he leaves them to their folly till they come to a state of humility where he is able to shower his mercy and revelation on such poor souls.

This is the portion of all those who try to wrench meanings out of scripture without any Holy Spirit revelation.

"'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'

We need humility to be received by God, the arrogant will always be rejected , except God in his mercy breaks them down to the point of humility.

In summary therefore, trying to explain to scripture to a pagan, is like trying to convince a blind man that the sky is blue and the trees are green.

May God open their eyes.

Amen!