₦airaland Forum

Who is to blame for this error?

University.
Lecturer.
Student.
Government.

If secondary students can do it perfectly at lower level,why is it difficult for university students to replicate it?

You don see where University engineer graduate dey lay blocks? He's to supervise abeg

IamAtAnger:
You don see where University engineer graduate dey lay blocks? He's to supervise abeg

In this nigeria. Youve not seen you are an hypocrite.

It's entirely a skill issue. Most people went to uni but give them something to do in africa, see them trembling.

One electrical and electronic engineer could not connect ceiling fan. I asked him why,he said he is not a technician,that he is an engineer. I weak.

Our educational system is all about theories, nothing like practical.
Every body wants to do white collar job.

Engineer designs.

Technicians or Technologists installs.


An Engineer uses engineering and mathematical models to design, while the field Technicians do the installation or fabrication as the case may be.

In Nigeria, we mix up things.

Axis313:
Our educational system is all about theories, nothing like practical.
Every body wants to do white collar job.

Polytechnics were founded to base their studies more on practicals while universities base their studies on research, design for engineering faculties.



So a Polytechnic engineering graduate ought to be more grounded in practical than a university graduate of engineering.

Looks like someone who couldn't make it to University is trying to console himself.

So, in your mind now, you're shaming a university graduate, when in your life, I don't think you have seen the four walls of an higher institution. If not for what the country have turned into, is a graduate supposed to be laying blocks??
Is it normal for a graduate to turn to a bricklayer, if not that the country is insane.

That's their problem. Let's move

Dikastan:
One electrical and electronic engineer could not connect ceiling fan. I asked him why,he said he is not a technician,that he is an engineer. I weak.

He's absolutely right.

In the US, an Electrical Engineer has many career opportunities from Oil&Gas to Aeronautics to Power to Medical Sciences and more. It is one of the most versatile Engineering degrees.

What concerns him with a Technical Electrician's work, which is a tradesman certificate and not a university degree?

Mind you, Technical Electricians in the US are decently paid (unlike in Nigeria where it is 3 steps above baseline poverty), you'll be able to afford a home and the basics of life reasonably.

Example: my Bro and SiL paid a handyman $50/hour to come and drill 4 holes in their wall and hang up a Murphy bed (we had assembled almost all of it ourselves, 2 of us are Engineers).

Now, if an Engineer knows a Technician's job, it's because the Engineer is into DIY (which is common in the USA, not in Nigeria).

OP, it's only in Nigeria that a Civil Engineer is correcting bricklaying work. That's a Tradesman's job and he will own a Construction firm and hire bricklayers to do it. And he will make plenty of money (my relatives have their own firms so I know this).

It's because Nigeria is not a real place, with no real jobs, that we expect Engineers to do Tradesman's work.

Onegai:
He's absolutely right.

In the US, an Electrical Engineer has many career opportunities from Oil&Gas to Aeronautics to Power to Medical Sciences and more. It is one of the most versatile Engineering degrees.

What concerns him with a Technical Electrician's work, which is a tradesman certificate and not a uni degree?

Mind you, Technical Electrician in the US are decently paid (unlike in Nigeria where it is 3 steps above baseline poverty), you'll be able to afford a home and the basics of life reasonably.

Example: my Bro and SiL paid a handyman $50/hour to come and drill 4 holes in their wall and hang up a Murphy bed (we had assembled almost all of it ourselves, 2 of us are Engineers).

Now, if an Engineer knows a Technician's job, it's because the Engineer is into DIY (which is common in the USA, not in Nigeria).

OP, it's only in Nigeria that Civil Engineer is correcting bricklaying work. That's a Tradesman's job and he will own a Construction firm and hire bricklayers to do it. And he will make plenty of money (my relatives have their own firms so I know this).

It's because Nigeria is not a real place, with no real jobs, that we expect Engineers to do Tradesman's work

its a little more complicated than that

in nigeria to be respected as a professional, esp if you are supervising these guys you HAVE to demonstrate some form of competence

because a large number of systems have been bastardized,book learning, which assumes you are in a working system, will not cut it

a system is suppose to be wired using color coded cables , but most technicians will just run the same colour of wire, because they dont know better , or because they are cutting cost. they run a size of wire because that is what they have seen others do, but they dont know the reason behind it.

if you cannot troubleshoot their crap, you will be referred to as an english speaking person. and you need
some hands on knowledge or they will run rings around you getting your low quality stuff that does not work

classic example -0 the humble socket outlet. this is rated 13amps by design and should be able to carry two irons or kettles. but teh markey is full of cheapo low quality versions that are good for tv, or fridge, but the moment you connect a kettle to them, they burn. if you dont know the reason, you will wind up looking like a mumu and accepting their solution , which is to use an ac socket outlet for kettle, - when the answer is to insist on the original confirmed socket outlet.

a large number of problems come form people bypassing standards or not even understanding them. but if you cant recognize the standards that have been bypassed, you will be held to ransom

also some items that you can just order on amazon are not available in nigeria, so you have to do jerry rigged solutions

Skill issue.

GloriousGbola:
its a little more complicated than that

in nigeria to be respected as a professional, esp if you are supervising these guys you HAVE to demonstrate some form of competence

because a large number of systems have been bastardized,book learning, which assumes you are in a working system, will not cut it

a system is suppose to be wired using color coded cables , but most technicians will just run the same colour of wire, because they dont know better , or because they are cutting cost. they run a size of wire because that is what they have seen others do, but they dont know the reason behind it.

if you cannot troubleshoot their crap, you will be referred to as an english speaking person. and you need
some hands on knowledge or they will run rings around you getting your low quality stuff that does not work

classic example -0 the humble socket outlet. this is rated 13amps by design and should be able to carry two irons or kettles. but teh markey is full of cheapo low quality versions that are good for tv, or fridge, but the moment you connect a kettle to them, they burn. if you dont know the reason, you will wind up looking like a mumu and accepting their solution , which is to use an ac socket outlet for kettle, - when the answer is to insist on the original confirmed socket outlet.

a large number of problems come form people bypassing standards or not even understanding them. but if you cant recognize the standards that have been bypassed, you will be held to ransom

also some items that you can just order on amazon are not available in nigeria, so you have to do jerry rigged solutions

This is true. I've experienced it working on site in Nigeria.

However, foreigners saw the gap for skilled tradesmen companies and stepped in.

A lot of Lebanese and Chinese guys running construction in Nigeria are actually tradesmen (why you hear Nigerians complaining that their Asian bosses don't even have degrees). The Civil Engineering and Architecture companies do their designs and calculations and the clients hand it over to these guys.

There was even a British guy doing construction work in Abuja for all your politicians. He was finishing all their interiors (he used to be very vocal on X).

There's a market for skilled tradesmen in Nigeria. Instead of asking Engineers to fill in the gap, let's go get those jobs back from the foreigners who have taken over

When my uncles came to visit here, they went to inspect their friend's house construction. One uncle took a spirit level and started showing the Nigerian artisans how their work wasn't straight and they were all looking at him. That lack of excellence made him want to open a Technical school here (he has over 40 years of construction experience).

The same thing happens in other industries: I see Indians getting hired for basic jobs because Nigerians don't have those skills and they're not university degrees (Hospitality, Management, Supermarket management, Supply Chain etc). We Nigerians are leaving jobs on the table chasing bigger dreams that may not materialize.

One last thing:

The Nigerians that will japa to get work as Tradesmen, especially in Construction and Supply Chains and then come back to Nigeria, will make 💵💰

Why? Because everyone is building gated estates and flats and communities, in Lagos and the South (I don't know about the Middle Belt and the North). They require interconnected plumbing and wiring and maintenance. We don't have good facility management skills here (1004, I'm looking at ya😑).

Speedaf is struggling with their Nigerian logistics partners, someone can step into the gap with them.

Even running warehousing, take the skills from Amazon and bring am here. Something big is coming up with Ethopian Airlines and Chinese companies (they have warehouses here, more will come). See work that is plentiful and can be skilled to other African countries even.

Don't let foreigners come here and take those jobs too whilst you're hustling in their country collecting insult and begging for passport.

Abeg mods, take this topic to the frontpage, our youth need to see what we're discussing here

IamAtAnger:
You don see where University engineer graduate dey lay blocks? He's to supervise abeg

meaning what? That was how a yaba tech electrical engineer graduate almost burnt our apartment with wrong wiring procedure during service year.

Education na scam for Nigeria this days

Imagine paying 40k per month for first class graduate

Onegai:
This is true. I've experienced it working on site in Nigeria.

However, foreigners saw the gap for skilled tradesmen companies and stepped in.

A lot of Lebanese and Chinese guys running construction in Nigeria are actually tradesmen (why you hear Nigerians complaining that their Asian bosses don't even have degrees). The Civil Engineering and Architecture companies do their designs and calculations and the clients hand it over to these guys.

There was even a British guy doing construction work in Abuja for all your politicians. He was finishing all their interiors (he used to be very vocal on X).

There's a market for skilled tradesmen in Nigeria. Instead of asking Engineers to fill in the gap, let's go get those jobs back from the foreigners who have taken over

When my uncles came to visit here, they went to inspect their friend's house construction. One uncle took a spirit level and started showing the Nigerian artisans how their work wasn't straight and they were all looking at him. That lack of excellence made him want to open a Technical school here (he has over 40 years of construction experience).

The same thing happens in other industries: I see Indians getting hired for basic jobs because Nigerians don't have those skills and they're not university degrees (Hospitality, Management, Supermarket management, Supply Chain etc). We Nigerians are leaving jobs on the table chasing bigger dreams that may not materialize.

Nigerians SAY they want things to work better, but my experience is 95% of the time, Nigerians want to pay the barest minimum for a service. If you tell them your price is n500, they will rather go for a person paying n100 whose competence is not clear. However our own internal inferiority complex will have us paying Lebanese n2000 for the same job

As an engineer I have frequently come across Nigerians who will undercut you (steal your design and get someone to do for lower cost) or who will argue about features that make system more robust. Within the construction industry developers have bypassed engineers by doing 'direct labour' where they engage artisans directly to build.

Finally we have a culture of identifying symptom rather than issue. And this is across board. It is very hard to tackle this once it has taken root

GloriousGbola:
Nigerians SAY they want things to work better, but my experience is 95% of the time, Nigerians want to pay the barest minimum for a service. If you tell them your price is n500, they will rather go for a person paying n100 whose competence is not clear. However our own internal inferiority complex will have us paying Lebanese n2000 for the same job

As an engineer I have frequently come across Nigerians who will undercut you (steal your design and get someone to do for lower cost) or who will argue about features that make system more robust. Within the construction industry developers have bypassed engineers by doing 'direct labour' where they engage artisans directly to build.

This one is our "Undercutting, Penny-wise, Pound-foolish, Manage-Am-Like-Dat" culture that we need to stamp out.

Pay for excellence and peace of mind. It won't be cheap but you won't suffer.

I learned it the hard way, several times.

I tell people: an experienced Artisan can build a small residential house in Ogun state or Kano state for you. But if you try yourself in Lagos, the SE or Rivers you go hear wiun.

What's the difference between a tradesman and bricklayer?

Onegai:
He's absolutely right.

In the US, an Electrical Engineer has many career opportunities from Oil&Gas to Aeronautics to Power to Medical Sciences and more. It is one of the most versatile Engineering degrees.

What concerns him with a Technical Electrician's work, which is a tradesman certificate and not a university degree?

Mind you, Technical Electricians in the US are decently paid (unlike in Nigeria where it is 3 steps above baseline poverty), you'll be able to afford a home and the basics of life reasonably.

Example: my Bro and SiL paid a handyman $50/hour to come and drill 4 holes in their wall and hang up a Murphy bed (we had assembled almost all of it ourselves, 2 of us are Engineers).

Now, if an Engineer knows a Technician's job, it's because the Engineer is into DIY (which is common in the USA, not in Nigeria).

OP, it's only in Nigeria that a Civil Engineer is correcting bricklaying work. That's a Tradesman's job and he will own a Construction firm and hire bricklayers to do it. And he will make plenty of money (my relatives have their own firms so I know this).

It's because Nigeria is not a real place, with no real jobs, that we expect Engineers to do Tradesman's work.

What exactly do you mean by the bolded?

Onegai:
I tell people: an experienced Artisan can build a small residential house in Ogun state or Kano state for you. But if you try yourself in Lagos, the SE or Rivers you go hear wiun.

I won't get into argument about the rage bait the picture is trying to make us do but if there is anything that you will take from the picture, it is

KNOW
YOUR
MATHS

Measurements help you design, build and scale. And also adjust and repair.

Love800:
What's the difference between a tradesman and bricklayer?

A bricklayer abroad is a tradesman, he went through a licensed apprenticeship (comprising of classes at a school with exam, may take up to 3 years and learn masonry, stonework and brick work). They even have a Union in Nigeria, apparently.

Same with Plumbing and Electrical work. Even Truck Driving is a special license.

But what we call "bricklayer" in Nigeria is some unskilled artisan who doesn't know what they're doing and produces the kind of shoddy work we normally see.

Love800:
What exactly do you mean by the bolded?

Soil property and geology which affects the type of foundation the building will require.

If you want me to explain more, you can go "please share more" 🙂

Awesome.

I appreciate.

Onegai:
A bricklayer abroad is a tradesman, he went through a licensed apprenticeship (comprising of classes at a school with exam, may take up to 3 years and learn masonry, stonework and brick work). They even have a Union in Nigeria, apparently.

Same with Plumbing and Electrical work. Even Truck Driving is a special license.

But what we call "bricklayer" in Nigeria is some unskilled artisan who doesn't know what they're doing and produces the kind of shoddy work we normally see.

Okay.
The south south soil is fragile and weak!

Alright.

In summary you saying that because the soil in Northern nigeria is okay, thats why an artisan here will build a good house? But in the south, the soil will expose his limited knowledge?

Am i making sense?
Am trying to wrap up your comment in my head.

Onegai:
Soil property and geology which affects the type of foundation the building will require.

If you want me to explain more, you can go "please share more" 🙂

O

Love800:
Okay.
The south south soil is fragile and weak!

Alright.

In summary you saying that because the soil in Northern nigeria is okay, thats why an artisan here will build a good house? But in the south, the soil will expose his limited knowledge?

Am i making sense?
Am trying to wrap up your comment in my head.

Geologically,

Lagos is a swamp, Ogun state has granite, the SE has clay-like soil which absorbs water and is prone to erosion without vegetation and the North is mostly arid.

Roads built in Kano are cheaper, will require less maintenance and will last longer than roads built in Lagos. Same with buildings: Lagos house walls will be absorbing sea water causing it to erode and weather much faster than Kano.

So an experienced Artisan can get away with constructing a 3 bedroom residential one-story building in Kano. If he tries that in Lagos, the house may literally sink depending on where he's building (Festac and Lekki are swampier than Ikeja. OPIC estate just outside Lagos sank completely, buildings are partially submerged).

Civil Engineers are trained to request for soil assessment and design the appropriate foundation for the soil and building usage.

They work with Building Contractors (who are tradesmen) and those ones will understand what is required of them.

Even the way they lay cement abroad uses machinery that spreads the concrete evenly to cure without cracks (we do it manually here in Nigeria and only for high-rise buildings do we have those machines and they're operated by the Lebanese and Chinese building contractors).

There's a clear distinction in job roles. But in Naija, one man can do 3 jobs.

franchasng:
Engineer designs.

Technicians or Technologists installs.


An Engineer uses engineering and mathematical models to design, while the field Technicians do the installation or fabrication as the case may be.

In Nigeria, we mix up things.

So, if engineer takes technicians to field and there is error, who will correct it? When they get to engineering work, I guess technicians will lead, why engineer takes the back seats.
WHAT YOU DESIGN,THE TECHNICIAN IS UNABLE TO INSTALL, WILL THE JOB STOP ABRUPTLY?

I doubt if you, the way engineer is to technologist, technician and artisan in engineering field is doctor to nurse, health technician and lab assistant.

Engineer and doctor, must able to perform and correct errors made by subordinates.


NB. Not that engineer will be do it, but must be able to do it, in case technician makes errors.

Oluhgbengaa:
Education na scam for Nigeria this days

no wonder your thought process is unrefined and archaic

Wow.

I really appreciate.

Sorry for my late response.

Onegai:
O

Geologically,

Lagos is a swamp, Ogun state has granite, the SE has clay-like soil which absorbs water and is prone to erosion without vegetation and the North is mostly arid.

Roads built in Kano are cheaper, will require less maintenance and will last longer than roads built in Lagos. Same with buildings: Lagos house walls will be absorbing sea water causing it to erode and weather much faster than Kano.

So an experienced Artisan can get away with constructing a 3 bedroom residential one-story building in Kano. If he tries that in Lagos, the house may literally sink depending on where he's building (Festac and Lekki are swampier than Ikeja. OPIC estate just outside Lagos sank completely, buildings are partially submerged).

Civil Engineers are trained to request for soil assessment and design the appropriate foundation for the soil and building usage.

They work with Building Contractors (who are tradesmen) and those ones will understand what is required of them.

Even the way they lay cement abroad uses machinery that spreads the concrete evenly to cure without cracks (we do it manually here in Nigeria and only for high-rise buildings do we have those machines and they're operated by the Lebanese and Chinese building contractors).

There's a clear distinction in job roles. But in Naija, one man can do 3 jobs.