I am posting this topic in respect to the thread that was posted a few days ago about Pastor Chris's stand on the subject of Mast urb ation.
Just cant block this in my mind anymore. I resolved to make a strong case on the importance of mast urb ation for christians.

there are no clear scriptures that prohibit christians from massturbating;

the only passage of the Bible that has been used by "self righteous" believers to condamn masstturbation is Genesis 39;one of the sons of Judah wasting
his spe rms on the ground during inntercourse with Tamar. God killed him as a result of this wicked action. this scripture can never be used in reference to mmassturbatiion.

there are endless physiological reasons and circumstances in life to prove my point . a christian shouldnt feel bad if he/she mas turb ate. for instance,there is no sin in me masstturbating to my wife when i have been away from her on a trip.in fact this will only flame my desires to be intimate with her and appreciate her.any honest woman will confess that she feels flattered and honored to know that her husband mmaasturbates to her.


when it comes to sexual abominations,the bible tells us in clear details in leviticus.

Mmassturbation is actually a shield of protection to help the single people stay pure. I would rather mmassturbate and go to bed afterwards than chase women out there.

mmassturbation gives you a good idea of what feels good to your body and how to control your emissions when you are with your spouse

^arent you a regular poster in sexuality section.

what brings you here.

eddy1977:

the only passage of the Bible that has been used by "self righteous" believers to condamn masstturbation is Genesis 39;one of the sons of Judah wasting
his  spe rms on the ground during inntercourse with Tamar. God killed him as a result of this wicked action. this scripture can never be used in reference to mmassturbatiion.

God didn't kill Onan because his sperrm spilled on the ground.  He killed him because he would not raise children  for his dead brother according to so its not about the sacredness of sperrm touching ground . Some married men does thesame today by spilling it on the ground as a form of birth control.

As much As I don't see it as a decent thing to do , if God didn't call it a sin neither should we make Simone who did it feel e has committed a sin agsinst God.

All the people I know that goes for sperrm count test in the hospital tells me the hospital asked them to do mastubation in order to collect their sperrm for the test. I have asked the question I'm yet to get an answer.

If we say it's a sin against God,what of the medical test which requires mastubation? Those who do it ,have they sinned too?

First of all, I do not believe masturbation is a sin, that's my personal opinion. Im not saying Im biblically correct.

Those who say biblically it is wrong to masturbate should remember the origin of this thread.

Pst. Chris wasnt talking about masturbation for medical reasons. The context he was referring to was MASTURBATION FOR THE PURPOSE OF RELEASING SEXUAL TENSION'

I would explain further
The ten commandments said thou shall not kill. Yet David killed men in war. God didnt punish him. He set Bathshebas husband up. God punished him.

Joagbatically, masturbation can be done without thinking. In reality, that's impossible as every honestasturbator :-) would testify. So how could masturbation be a sin?

The thoughts preceding and during the act,

Simple and short,



I

tpia@:

^arent you a regular poster in sexuality section.

what brings you here.

2 corinthians 5:17 says that I am a new creature because of new birth. Romans 8:1 tells me that there are no more condamnations for me because i am in Jesus Christ.

yes,I used to mostly camp in the sexuality section;but I went back to theLord recently. I will still be a regular contributor in the sexuality area because God blessed us as humans with the gift of sex.

@joabaje why do always base this arguement medically? Someone wanking for the fun of it and another doing so for medical reasons are not on the same ground.

JO,
God destroyed Sodom for Homosexuality. (and possibly masturbation ) At that time, there was no bible/written law against Homosexuality, yet God in his righteousness destroyed them.
Now to the issue of self-service, You people's arguement is that it isn't stated in scripture that it is wrong.
HOmosexuality and masturbation are done with the participants' bodies, doesn't affect other people etc so why is homosexuality wrong and masturbation right?

@Jo, Is this the Christ Embassy church position or is it you and your Chris personal opinion? If this is what your church teach you, well I am sorry for your soul.

Knight1:

JO,
God destroyed Sodom for Homosexuality. (and possibly self-service ) At that time, there was no bible/written law against Homosexuality, yet God in his righteousness destroyed them.
Now to the issue of self-service, You people's arguement is that it isn't stated in scripture that it is wrong.
HOmosexuality and self-service are done with the participants' bodies, doesn't affect other people etc so why is homosexuality wrong and self-service right?

nowhere in  the bible are we told that God destroyed sodom because of homosexuality. if we go by what God told abraham,sodom and  gomorrah were destroyed for their .it only says that
their wickedness was great.but God didn't define what that wickedness was.
it will be wise for us to stop where the bible stops.

@  eddy1977,

Well, I can see you just told us you have given your life to Christ. You also quoted:

eddy1977:

2 corinthians 5:17 says that I am a new creature because of new birth. Romans 8:1 tells me that there are no more condamnations for me because i am in Jesus Christ.
yes,I used to mostly camp in the sexuality section;but I went back to theLord recently. I will still be a regular contributor in the sexuality area because God blessed us as humans with the gift of sex.

You quoted Roman 8:1 but you didn't complete your quote, hence I help you to complete it below:

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

It will interest you that we have proved beyond any doubt that masturba.tion is a sin. It is very true that the word, masturba.tion itself is not written in ink in the bible but the manifestation and the process of the masturba.tion makes it very clear it is a sin.

To argue or debate the word of God is not against masturba.tion is also to argue or debate Indecency is not against the word of God simply because it is not clearly stated in the bible. It is also to debate that, Abortion is right because the word, abortion didn't appear the bible. You can as well tell us that, se.x-trading or prostitu.tion is not a sin because the word is not clearly written in the bible.

I do not intend to go in details here as I have explained in details in other thread. Masturba.tion is fulfilling the lust and passion of the flesh and the works of the flesh are very clear in the book of Galatians 5:19

New International Version
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: intimate immorality, impurity and debauchery;

New Living Translation
When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: intimate immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures,

English Standard Version
Now the works of the flesh are evident: intimate immorality, impurity, sensuality,

New American Standard Bible
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,

King James Bible
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Galatians 5: 21 went further to say:

New International Version
and envy; drunkenness, org.ies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

New Living Translation
envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

English Standard Version
envy, drunkenness, org.ies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

New American Standard Bible
envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

King James Bible
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

PLEASE, KINDLY LOOK UP FOR YOURSELF IN THE DICTIONARY OR ONLINE DICTIONARY TO SEE THE MEANING OF SinParty OR SinParties AND SEE IF YOU STILL REALLY WANT TO DEBATE THE WORD OF GOD OR JUST ASK FOR GRACE TO OBEY. MY BROTHER, WHEN WE COME TO CHRIST, OUR FLESH/BODY IS NOT BORN AGAIN AND NOT REGENERATED. THAT IS WHY THE FLESH IS ALWAYS AT CONSTANT WAR WITH OUR SPIRIT MAN. WE ARE ADMONISHED TO CONSTANTLY PUT OUR BODY UNDER SUBJECTION IN ORDER TO KEEP US AWAY FROM SIN. SO MY BROTHER, YOU STILL NEED TO PUT YOUR BODY UNDER SUBJECTION TO YOUR REGENERATED MAN (YOUR SPIRIT) SO AS TO FULFILL THE WORD OF GOD

@ tolex

so you R saying that its ok to do it as long as you r thinking about your spouse.

for some people who associate  p o rn with this,you have to think about folks in remote areas who have no access to dvds and magazines.they still do it without those mediums.

When a person comes to Christ, such person denies “self”, take up his “cross” and follow Christ and the ways of Christ.

Matthew 16:24
Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. (NIV). Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If any of you wants to be my follower, you must turn from your selfish ways, take up your cross, and follow me.(NLT)

Apostle Paul clearly confirms this to be true of believers and followers of Christ.

Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ. 1 cor. 11:1(NIV)

Hence, Apostle Paul said this to be true when we come to Christ as followers of Christ.

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. (NIV). My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.(NLT)

1 cor.6:19-20
Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body. (NIV). Don't you realize that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself, for God bought you with a high price. So you must honor God with your body. (NLT)

Masturb.ation is the self-stimulation to the point of intimate release without the gifting of a spouse. It is not the intimate design of God for couples but it self-abuse or self-serviced through the mis-used intimate organ of our body which is the temple of God as a believer or follower of Christ. Masturba.tion is a selfish act whereby we take advantage of and abuse God's gift, our sex organ in this case. God cares about what we do with our bodies, in public or in private, and He doesn't want us to abuse ourselves in any way.

Mastur.bation involves intimate fantasies in the thought or mind of a person which makes it not pure and hence becomes a sin. The Bible clearly teaches that our minds are as important to God as our bodies are and that we are to remain pure in both. When mastur.bating, you are defile the mind with obscene thoughts and then defile your body by using it to act out those thoughts. To "defile" means "to make unclean, to make impure."

Every sin and intimate immorality (masturbat.ion inclusive) begins with a thought or lust as established by the bible:

"But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin,when it is finished, bringeth forth death."James 1:14-15 (KJV)

Matthew 15:19-20a reads, "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications , these are the things which defile a man."

"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:28).

1 Corinthians 6:18 (NIV)
"Flee from intimate immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body." Also bear in mind we established our body is the temple of God after we come to Christ.

The above verse clearly confirms that immoral and unlawful intimate relations defiles our own bodies which happens to be the temple of God.

Having established the above that our body is the temple of the Lord and which does not belongs to us when we come to Christ, we are to honour God with it. We do not own the live we live in our body anymore. Also we establised the precess of sin, beginning with a thought as masturba.tion involves illicit thoughts with mis-use of the organs hence making a man impure or defiles a man. It is therefore established as a sin.

"In the same way count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. For sin shall not be your master for you are not under law but under grace" (Romans 6:11-14).

1Thess 4:2-8 (NIV) For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid intimate immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God, For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.

"Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God" (2 Corinthians 7:1).

Ma.sturbation comes as a result of lust in the heart for the body of a man or woman that is not your husband or wife respectively.

Ma.sturbation is also a direct product of a lack of discipline in bible study and prayer.

What occupies your mind the most will eventually manifest in the physical.

If your focus on GOD is not 100% you will yield to any sin if not careful.



"But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." - Matthew 5:28



And while the bible does not specifically mention MAS.TURBATION , this is covered by lasciviousness in the bible , as follows :

las·civ·i·ous   [luh-siv-ee-uhs]

1.
inclined to lustfulness; wanton; lewd: a lascivious, girl-chasing old man.

2.
arousing intimate desire: lascivious photographs.

3.
indicating intimate interest or expressive of lust or lewdness: a lascivious gesture.



Mark 7:22
Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

2 Corinthians 12:21
And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and[b] lasciviousness[/b] which they have committed.

Ephesians 4:19
Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

1 Peter 4:3
For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Demain_man:

@Jo, Is this the Christ Embassy church position or is it you and your Chris personal opinion? If this is what your church teach you, well I am sorry for your soul.

Pls feel for your soul .

goshen360:


I do not intend to go in details here as I have explained in details in other thread. Masturba.tion is fulfilling the lust and passion of the flesh and the works of the flesh are very clear in the book of Galatians 5:19

It's not every fleshly thing that is a sin. I agree that yielded ness to flesh may rob one of some spiritual advantage as a principle. But don't call a sin what God hasn't called a sin.

New International Version
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: intimate immorality, impurity and debauchery;

New Living Translation
When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: intimate immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures,

English Standard Version
Now the works of the flesh are evident: intimate immorality, impurity, sensuality,

New American Standard Bible
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,

King James Bible
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Galatians 5: 21 went further to say:

New International Version
and envy; drunkenness, org.ies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

New Living Translation
envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

English Standard Version
envy, drunkenness, org.ies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

New American Standard Bible
envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

King James Bible
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

PLEASE, KINDLY LOOK UP FOR YOURSELF IN THE DICTIONARY OR ONLINE DICTIONARY TO SEE THE MEANING OF SinParty OR SinParties AND SEE IF YOU STILL REALLY WANT TO DEBATE THE WORD OF GOD OR JUST ASK FOR GRACE TO OBEY. MY BROTHER, WHEN WE COME TO CHRIST, OUR FLESH/BODY IS NOT BORN AGAIN AND NOT REGENERATED. THAT IS WHY THE FLESH IS ALWAYS AT CONSTANT WAR WITH OUR SPIRIT MAN. WE ARE ADMONISHED TO CONSTANTLY PUT OUR BODY UNDER SUBJECTION IN ORDER TO KEEP US AWAY FROM SIN. SO MY BROTHER, YOU STILL NEED TO PUT YOUR BODY UNDER SUBJECTION TO YOUR REGENERATED MAN (YOUR SPIRIT) SO AS TO FULFILL THE WORD OF GOD

You seem to be playing in words here without even knowing their meaning. Courosal,Orgiies etc. lasciviousness simply means wild parties not mastubation. Let's not roll it in.

frosbel:

Ma.sturbation comes as a result of lust in the heart for the body of a man or woman that is not your husband or wife respectively.

It doesn't have to be. Lust is lust . Lust has to do with another person in mind. Mastubation does not have to do with another person in mind. Those who do are exhibiting lust ,those who don't are not exhibiting lust. If we are deling lust ,let's deal with lust. A man legally making love with his wife can imagine another woman that he lusts after. Physically it seems he is doing alright but inwardly he is playing with lust. Mastubation doesn't have to do with lust for another person. It's with himself. If he has imagination for not her person,it's a different ball game. Then the problem is not the mastubation But the unclean thought.

Ma.sturbation is also a direct product of a lack of discipline in bible study and prayer.

I agree It's bad habit, and Spiritual exercise,such as study , prayer and fasting can take care of it. But I will not call a sin against God what God hadn't called a sin.

My question is still open.

Mastubation for sperrm test ,is it a sin against God? Im yet to have a yes or no answer.

frosbel:
.
"But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." - Matthew 5:28

This scripture have been well used on this topic. It's being misapplied . Jesus was dealing with coveting another mans wife.

. . . committed adultery with her

you commit adultery only with a woman who already belongs to a man. Jesus was dealing with covetousness.

Let's stop using this verse for mastubation . I'm not in support of mastubation. I've helped many overcome it. But God didn't rate it as a sin against him.

Joagbaje:

My question is still open.

Mastubation for sperrm test ,is it a sin against God? Im yet to have a yes or no answer.

Commiting murder is a sin. Do soldiers sin when they go to war?

Your god Pst Chris was referring to self-service im order to release intimate tension. Thats what he was referring to. Not for medical reasons.



The questions remain: Pst. Jo have you ever masturbated? The people you claim to have helped, did you teach them to self-service without thinking so that it no longer becomes sin? EXPECTING NO ANSWER FROM YOU ANYWAYS,  thats ur usual response to defeat,

I don't discuss with mockers pls.

2 Timothy 2:23
. . .But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

Joagbaje:

I don't discuss with mockers pls.

2 Timothy 2:23
. . .But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

you are a log of shame

Gadgets!!

hmmm see you are having fun. pastor have you masturbated this morning?

I don't . But I help people stop it. I can help you.

you are married right? i guess so, maybe thats why you don't do it. so dont pretend to be pious here ok?

what the f! you want to help me stop what? 4ck off! i love it, it is not a sin now right? and besides i dont do it every now and then, just like twice in a month when my gf is not around. so why do you want to help me stop it? but you said it is not a sin now but a bad habit if you do it every now and then. i smell something fishy here. you want to help me stop with what? with your rod? gosh forbid kia! 

So you are also a lesbian! Good gracious. Your problem is much.

jocircumnavigate, you read the meaning in my post eh? so dont attack my personality here. that is not the point of discussion. why will you help me out when my self service routine is not a bad habit? i dont do it always, so why are you going to help me out?

Lets be honest, Ego will not allow you to admit the help you need in this open forum. We can discuss in private . My email I below.

The issue of Onan was a very simple one, God had already set in motion a process of actualizing His pronouncement He had made in Genesis Chapter 3 where said ". . . the seed of the woman would bruise the head of the serpent. . . "
Genesis 3:15
"And I will put enmity between you and
the woman, and between your seed and
her seed; he shall bruise your head, and
you shall bruise his heel"

now this was a process that would usher in the "second and last Adam" who was to be man's redemptive package. So God was busy raising to Himself a godly seed that explains why he wanted and chose Isreal as a nation separated and dedicated to Himself and little wonder why Satan also didn't sit fallow and idle he got his hands dirty and busy making frantic efforts to pollute the human race because you see now he is aware the prophecy says ". . . the seed of the woman. . . " which by implication means that that redemptive package has to be a man born of a woman so since he lacked all the details he embacked on what l would call " a systematic random offentive"
In Genesis the bible speaks of "the sons of God coming to make children with the daughters of men"
Genesis 6:4
"There were giants in the earth in those
days; and also after that, when the sons
of God came in unto the daughters of
men, and they bare children to them,
the same became mighty men which
were of old, men of renown"
so now onan was seemingly the last option for the "continuity" of that process but when he thought and considered that according to tradition, the first child from that union wasn't going to be his the bible says he spilled it on the ground he acted deviant to the plan

the more i study this topic,the more i realize why unbelievers call us christians "hypocrites". we see sin in everything and we smell demons in everybody.this is why most christians are very unfulfilled in their marriages.just like i know some christians who will never let their spouse caress their private parts with their tongue.some will only be intimate in the missionnary postion because it's "HOLY". i have even heard sermons by preachers who asked the ladies to throw away all their little toys (plastic goodies).

when it comes to forbidden se xu al habits for christians,the bible is very clear. no adultery,no same s e x ,no    bes ti ali ty;no 3sums;no gangbangs;no swinging,no inc est.

but it is ok for a christian couple to give and perfom   orral ; by mutual agreement  annal is ok;there is nothing wrong with the husband spraying his fluid on any parts of his wife as long as she agrees and enjoys it.

we christians are depriving ourselves of some priviledges that have nothing to do with sin or holiness. the purpose for s3x is first of all mutual pleasure. as long as it is practiced in the comfort of the matrimonial bedroom and it doesnt involve harms;it should be enjoyed.

newmi:

The issue of Onan was a very simple one, God had already set in motion a process of actualizing His pronouncement He had made in Genesis Chapter 3 where said ". . . the seed of the woman would bruise the head of the serpent. . . "
Genesis 3:15
"And I will put enmity between you and
the woman, and between your seed and
her seed; he shall bruise your head, and
you shall bruise his heel"

now this was a process that would usher in the "second and last Adam" who was to be man's redemptive package. So God was busy raising to Himself a godly seed that explains why he wanted and chose Isreal as a nation separated and dedicated to Himself and little wonder why Satan also didn't sit fallow and idle he got his hands dirty and busy making frantic efforts to pollute the human race because you see now he is aware the prophecy says ". . . the seed of the woman. . . " which by implication means that that redemptive package has to be a man born of a woman so since he lacked all the details he embacked on what l would call " a systematic random offentive"
In Genesis the bible speaks of "the sons of God coming to make children with the daughters of men"
Genesis 6:4
"There were giants in the earth in those
days; and also after that, when the sons
of God came in unto the daughters of
men, and they bare children to them,
the same became mighty men which
were of old, men of renown"
so now onan was seemingly the last option for the "continuity" of that process but when he thought and considered that according to tradition, the first child from that union wasn't going to be his the bible says he spilled it on the ground he acted deviant to the plan

Onan was wicked.the law of Moses clearly stated that a man could marry his late brother's wife and have children with her to preserve the name of the deceased.Deuteronomy 25:5-10.
Onan's sin was his wickedness towards tamar and his late brother.he wouldnt ej acu late inside her.therefore depriving her and the entire family of the offspring.God had to take him out.
let's saty faithful with our interpretation of the scriptures.