I did something horrible yesterday and today. Each time, my conscience kept pounding me. As I reflected on how my conscience was beating me, I realized that Darwin's nonsense cannot explain this. My fellow Christians, we are really privileged to come to the realization that GOD exist.

Let us continue to pray for those who have not come to that realization yet.

Not exactly the best proof of God's existence, that. But i agree with you that there is a GOD.

Jenwitemi: Not exactly the best proof of God's existence, that. But i agree with you that there is a GOD.

I agree that it is not the best but it is certainly one of the best. How do you explain the conscience? I want it to be done vis-a-vis the fact that this world is filled with wickedness. According to Darwin, natural selection should mean that we should not have any regrets when we do something wrong

Natural selection does not mean that, brethren. Your conscience was only biting you because you were taught that doing anything horrible (whatever that thing is) might earn you a trip to the hot place. Nothing more than that. If you want to prove that God exists, you'd have to come up with a better evidence than that.

You certainly want to test the existtencia of God.
For centuries, scientists have tried, religious and atheists ... without success.
But you have the great idea of thinking that proves the existence of God to have remorse ... Well, if you cut your finger bleed, and that does not prove the existence or nonexistence of god ... It's not that simplistic.
Neither Darwin has nothing to do with this topic ...
I think you are quite confused.

Actually there's a good point in there. The "Survival of the fittest" theorem has no place with the phenomenon of conscience. If anything, it should negate it, and Might should surely be right.

^^
Wrong. We think and are taught right from wrong. Man is a social animal. When you do something bad for a selfish reason, because you are a reasonable person, you soon feel remorse.
Do you like dogs ? It might interest you to know some dogs feel remorse too or if they dont, they know when they have been bad and it shows. Man can overcome whatever evolutionary instincts because he is not a slave to them. Whereas things may have been different in the past, now man can think and overcome his base instincts.
The so called conscience comes into play because man is a "higher" animal.

Dont be so quick to jump on any half brained theory because it seemingly supports your notion.

Heading over to Darwins Day now.

Deep Sight: Actually there's a good point in there. The "Survival of the fittest" theorem has no place with the phenomenon of conscience. If anything, it should negate it, and Might should surely be right.

God does not exist! Mind you, I have got no conscience!

God does not exist! Mind you, I have got no conscience!

Your conscience can be seared or corrupted.

1 Timothy 4:2
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

There's a God. There's a judgement day. There's a heaven , theres a hell,theres a lake of fire.theres a new earth .

jayriginal: ^^
Wrong. We think and are taught right from wrong. Man is a social animal. When you do something bad for a selfish reason, because you are a reasonable person, you soon feel remorse.
Do you like dogs ? It might interest you to know some dogs feel remorse too or if they dont, they know when they have been bad and it shows. Man can overcome whatever evolutionary instincts because he is not a slave to them. Whereas things may have been different in the past, now man can think and overcome his base instincts.
The so called conscience comes into play because man is a "higher" animal.

Dont be so quick to jump on any half brained theory because it seemingly supports your notion.

Heading over to Darwins Day now.

Morning bro. Yeah I hear you, but hear me too. Man is indeed a higher animal - and that "highness" was supposedly attained through a process of evolution. That very process is a definitively competitive process in terms of survival. As such, we can moderately say that this may somewhat account for the obvious competitive instincts of man. If we look around the world without blinkered eyes, we will see the obvious malevolent manifestation of this everywhere and everyday. Intractable corruption that kills, and a shocking insensitivity to the common good. The instinct of selfishness and self-preservation STILL takes the lead in this world bro - just look around you and honestly tell me its otherwise.

Thus the more subtle instinct: that instinct and inclination towards unselfish love and the common good: this seems to me something that arises from a nature of man which is not evolution based. It resides in the spirit. Think about it, and honestly tell me I am talking nonsense.

The evolution based nature of man is wildly competitive. Brother go even maud im own brother for se.xual rights over a woman. That is the part of man that is evolution based. Perpetrate my genes. Survive. Dominate. Bro, that is our evolved nature, our evolution based nature. That surely cannot be contested? Hope you see where am coming from.

Deepsight,

The problem with your above postulation is that it takes a very narrow view of evolution, evolution operates. On various levels. Evolution has even gone beyond the simplistic darwinian model.

Evolution is about survival, any trait that enhance survival is improved upon, and when I say survival, it does not necessarily mean individual survival, it can be group, family, specie or even taxonomic survival. The one that is most threatened takes immediate precedence over others. That is why in most species, the issue of personal safety becomes secondary when group or family safety becomes threatened.
Conscience in human is according to the social, mental and even spiritual development of the people. When a people came to the realization that group interest should supersede individual interest in order to ensure long term survival of the group, then conscience would be a veritable tool for self regulation. Most of the time a society evolves various codes and laws to regulate conscience of the group. Sometimes subtle threats are use (real or imagined), at other times force and violence is used.

Although there is deep inside our heart; A Conscience, most of what we call conscience today are acquired conscience, for example the conscience of many Christians would not allow them to sleep if the did not pay their tithes, offerings, fruits, etc., because it is taught to be critical to their spiritual, financial,physical and social survival.

Deep Sight:

Morning bro.

Good Morning (well it was morning when I started writing but as Im about to press submit, I see its afternoon now).

Yeah I hear you, but hear me too.

I'm all ears.

Man is indeed a higher animal - and that "highness" was supposedly attained through a process of evolution. That very process is a definitively competitive process in terms of survival. As such, we can moderately say that this may somewhat account for the obvious competitive instincts of man. If we look around the world without blinkered eyes, we will see the obvious malevolent manifestation of this everywhere and everyday. Intractable corruption that kills, and a shocking insensitivity to the common good. The instinct of selfishness and self-preservation STILL takes the lead in this world bro - just look around you and honestly tell me its otherwise.

You do have a point with the bolded.

Thus the more subtle instinct: that instinct and inclination towards unselfish love and the common good: this seems to me something that arises from a nature of man which is not evolution based. It resides in the spirit. Think about it, and honestly tell me I am talking nonsense.

Its not nonsense per se, its just that in your quest for spirituality, you attribute beauty, finesse, good, love etc to some higher level. I made the point that while man has crude instincts, he can and often rises above them. If man can think, he can distinguish between good and bad. So really the bad may not be bad for the particular man, but it may be bad for the larger society which he is a part of. He may thus refrain from acting in accordance with his base instinct. Its not just man, animals also feel love (or something like it). Animals form societies and they have rules. Animals have been known to ostracize erring members. Animals communicate. Animals trade. The point I'm trying to make is that man is a higher animal because he can think, he can emote and he can make informed choices.

The evolution based nature of man is wildly competitive. Brother go even maud im own brother for se.xual rights over a woman. That is the part of man that is evolution based. Perpetrate my genes. Survive. Dominate. Bro, that is our evolved nature, our evolution based nature. That surely cannot be contested? Hope you see where am coming from.

While I understand your point, it also illustrates the point I was trying to make.
Now what you wrote in the paragraph above, is part of what we were taught about evolution. Survive, dominate, perpetuate our genes and the most adapted and fittest individuals would live and continue the species.

Now let us examine our world today. We find out that the people who breed like jungle bunnies are for the most part among the poor (financially and educationally). Among the more educated folk, people plan their kids. Some do not even plan to have. Some even decide not to marry. Whereas all we would do then is boink and populate, now we know the effect of that on our world and we have invented contraceptives. Contraceptives would be against evolution it seems.
Since we moved out of the jungle and advanced as a race, the goals have shifted somewhat. I am not suggesting for once that we have lost all our evolutionary traits. I am only saying that they do not have such a hold on us as they did before because of man's advanced state of reasoning.

In times past, a man might kill another over territory without thinking it through. Today instead of killing or be killed we can go to court. Whereas once man lived by instinct, now he lives by reason (with influence from instinct).


Post Script:
It may interest you or you might have heard about it before. Long ago when I was "searching" I came across one spiritual/mystical book (I cant remember the name) that sought to guide me to re-awakening my dormant psychic powers. Among other things, it stated that man was once very psychically aware and could indeed communicate without speech. It gave examples of how this power is still at play but barely perceptible in humans today except under the right circumstances. It gave the forehead and the back of the neck as being the most powerful ESP signal senders and receivers. It gave the common example of thinking of a person or writing a person a letter when suddenly the person calls you or visits. Another example it gave was how you become aware that there is someone in a room with you even when the person has made no sound.
Then it gave different means for sending a message to another person as well as exercises for increasing your psychic abilities.
Needless to say, I place no value in this book (though I did at the time).

Many things that are attributed to ESP are simply cases of the subconscious picking up signals that our conscious mind doesnt. Many others are coincidences.
This is just an aside anyway.

Jenwitemi: Natural selection does not mean that, brethren. Your conscience was only biting you because you were taught that doing anything horrible (whatever that thing is) might earn you a trip to the hot place. Nothing more than that. If you want to prove that God exists, you'd have to come up with a better evidence than that.

Exactly....You have a conscience because you have been told so and so is bad and you will go to hell because of it. If you raise a child and tell him good is bad and bad is good and when he does good he goes to hell won't it prick his conscience?

Ptolomeus: You certainly want to test the existtencia of God.
For centuries, scientists have tried, religious and atheists ... without success.
But you have the great idea of thinking that proves the existence of God to have remorse ... Well, if you cut your finger bleed, and that does not prove the existence or nonexistence of god ... It's not that simplistic.
Neither Darwin has nothing to do with this topic ...
I think you are quite confused.

You did not get the post right. According to Darwin's natural selection nonsense, humans and of course the entire life forms on this planet adapted to what their environment threw at them. If the world has been throwing these hatred, bitterness, pain and wickedness, why then is our nature not changed to adapt to these wickedness?

Why do I still have a conscience that works perfectly in terms of convicting me. Why do terrorists cry when they suffer loss? Where did that tender emotion come from if you think your emotion is determined by the environment that you were raised?

This is a common sense!

Akwasi
Your postulation above is wrong. What Darwin said was that all SURVIVING species have been successful at adapting perfectly to their environment or evolved to adapt perfectly to their environment. Those that fail to adapt becomes extinct and that is why over 99% of all species that have Lived on earth are extinct.

As I explained earlier, conscience is a social adaptation to help ensure survival of a group family or specie. If conscience breaks down in a society, that particular society would become extinct in a matter of decades or at best millennia.

Conscience can be manipulated by leaders of though and by religious leaders. That is why a Muslim courting another woman feels no prick of conscience like a Christian cheating on his wife.

In Nigeria the rewards and respect for wealth has killed the conscience in regards to stealing from the public while in Japan the conscience and shame of being caught stealing public funds will lead an average person to commit suicide.

Akwasi:

You did not get the post right. According to Darwin's natural selection nonsense, humans and of course the entire life forms on this planet adapted to what their environment threw at them. If the world has been throwing these hatred, bitterness, pain and wickedness, why then is our nature not changed to adapt to these wickedness?

Why do I still have a conscience that works perfectly in terms of convicting me. Why do terrorists cry when they suffer loss? Where did that tender emotion come from if you think your emotion is determined by the environment that you were raised?

This is a common sense!

"You did not get the post right".
You opened this thread saying that having become aware of a situation is irrefutable proof of the existence of God.
Excuse me my frankness, but the exposure is so terrible, that does not deserve even the slightest analysis.
My respects.

wirinet: Akwasi


Conscience can be manipulated by leaders of thought and by religious leaders. That is why a Muslim courting another woman feels no prick of conscience like a Christian cheating on his wife.

BEEYOOTEEFUUL !!!
Well said.
*shouts* "Barman, abeg ask this man what he is drinking".

A very good illustration methinks.

jayriginal:
BEEYOOTEEFUUL !!!
Well said.
*shouts* "Barman, abeg ask this man what he is drinking".

A very good illustration methinks.

It is not really a drink problem.
It is our friend Akwasi, was flirting with a girl ... Well, ended up in bed with the girl, but the problem is that his wife found out, and our friend Akwasi are looking to God to forgive him. He looks at the ideas of Darwin, in his own consciousness, everywhere ...
This, dear friend Akwasi explained in another thread ...
It's not a question of alcoholism, no ... is that the man is somewhat disturbed and afraid to go to hell ...
I already explained to him that Abraham, Solomon, David, Jacob, etc. all have been unfaithful and adulterous but were forgiven by God ...
Akwasi has misbehaved with his wife, so it is somewhat incoherent.

Ptolomeus:
It is not really a drink problem.
It is our friend Akwasi, was flirting with a girl ... Well, ended up in bed with the girl, but the problem is that his wife found out, and our friend Akwasi are looking to God to forgive him. He looks at the ideas of Darwin, in his own consciousness, everywhere ...
This, dear friend Akwasi explained in another thread ...
It's not a question of alcoholism, no ... is that the man is somewhat disturbed and afraid to go to hell ...
I already explained to him that Abraham, Solomon, David, Jacob, etc. all have been unfaithful and adulterous but were forgiven by God ...
Akwasi has misbehaved with his wife, so it is somewhat incoherent.

Ptolomeus: You certainly want to test the existtencia of God.
For centuries, scientists have tried, religious and atheists ... without success.
But you have the great idea of thinking that proves the existence of God to have remorse ... Well, if you cut your finger bleed, and that does not prove the existence or nonexistence of god ... It's not that simplistic.
Neither Darwin has nothing to do with this topic ...
I think you are quite confused.

Your bleeding finger analogy does show that you are confused.com. You are like the person who believes that he is physically dead and even when someone cuts your finger to the point of bleeding to show you that you are alive would you then believe that you are alive? You say aha dead people bleed afterall.

jayriginal: ^^
Wrong. We think and are taught right from wrong. Man is a social animal. When you do something bad for a selfish reason, because you are a reasonable person, you soon feel remorse.
Do you like dogs ? It might interest you to know some dogs feel remorse too or if they dont, they know when they have been bad and it shows. Man can overcome whatever evolutionary instincts because he is not a slave to them. Whereas things may have been different in the past, now man can think and overcome his base instincts.
The so called conscience comes into play because man is a "higher" animal.

Dont be so quick to jump on any half brained theory because it seemingly supports your notion.

Heading over to Darwins Day now.

Animal operate on their basic intincts. Do you see how the story of evolution has reduced you to the basic instincts of an animal? When you say that there is no God you are only fighting your own conscience.

Ptolomeus:
It is not really a drink problem.

Oh no. I'm simply offering Wirinet a drink for an excellent post. Nothing wrong in that.

Double Post

@Poster

If i were to count the top 5 dumbest posts in this section, yours would be among the first three. Keep it up. You are getting there.

OLAADEGBU:

Animal operate on their basic intincts. Do you see how the story of evolution has reduced you to the basic instincts of an animal? When you say that there is no God you are only fighting your own conscience.

Dude what the heck is wrong with you? Just run into someone from a detention camp and you will know what is conscience. How the heck is rejecting God fighting conscience?

mkmyers45: Dude what the heck is wrong with you? Just run into someone from a detention camp and you will know what is conscience. How the heck is rejecting God fighting conscience?

You will soon learn to stop taking Ola seriously.

i was expecting something better to show these semi-blind atheists. but i am disappointed. christians spoil everything.

Try to bring order to the thread ok?
A Christian who attends church and follows the law of God, he commits adultery.
He does not open a thread to express regret, but to say that he has discovered evidence of the existence of God, and as if that were not enough, introduced Darwin in the discussion ...
This is an example of the hypocrisy of believers, who defend their doctrine even when violated, this is what is learned in the Christian churches ...
This is an example of the approach that many religious and pastors have ...
"No matter what sin, then pray, pay tithing and God save you"
It's terrible.
Friends: We are discussing introduced Darwin at the request of an individual who spent his own principles and beliefs about the place where the sun does not reach!
What has introduced Darwin with what he did that guy?

I express my apologies to all, but I wrap in a discussion of introduced Darwin and consciousness in a thread like this, is unintelligent ..

I would say to Akeasi friend who has the courage to face his wife, the respect, and do not open threads like this.
My respects

mkmyers45: Dude what the heck is wrong with you? Just run into someone from a detention camp and you will know what is conscience. How the heck is rejecting God fighting conscience?

Oswald Chambers was spot on when he defined the conscience as the internal perception of God's moral Law. When you say that God doesnt' exist, you are not attacking God you are just attacking your own conscience.

jayriginal:
You will soon learn to stop taking Ola seriously.

You should have learnt that all those atheists wannabe are only intellectual schizophrenics and you better take it serious.

OLAADEGBU:

You should have learnt that all those atheists wannabe are only intellectual schizophrenics and you better take it serious.

You are still talking ?
Seriously ?

OLAADEGBU:

Oswald Chambers was spot on when he defined the conscience as the internal perception of God's moral Law. When you say that God doesnt' exist, you are not attacking God you are just attacking your own conscience.

and how did you explain the concept of attacking your conscience? I guess you are as confused as they say.