@doncigalo:
I hail oh.

@csharpjava

csharpjava:
#1. In that case I'm sure your ogas have never met a qualified Software Engineer.

#2. So if your ogas tell you the earth is flat, I'm I not right in saying that I'm sure your ogas are still leaving in the past.

#3. The Formal Specification I posted above is for solving real life problems and it's a must for any programmer writing Business, Mission or Life Critical applications to follow before writing a single line of code as testing intergrity software after coding is a was of time and effort, just as engineers do not build a bridge and then ask you to drive your car over to test whether the bridge will fall down or not so that they can go back and fix the error they have made, no they only have one shot at getting the bridge right the first time. This is the reason software engineers too have to convert from UML specification to a Formal Specification from which they can then write their codes for that application.

There are a lot of things wrong with you argument, which, taking a basic course in logic and/or critical thinking might help you see but that's for you to figure ( or you can start here: http://www.amazon.com/The-Art-Thinking-Allen-Harrison/dp/0425105687).

I will keep things relevant to this thread. It's obvious we are too little to have meet any software engineer in your caliber, very honorable, that's skips me to point #3, oh before that, actually my ogas don't have to tell me it is, the world is flat indeed, what have you being thinking, this book will expatiate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_Is_Flat

You analogy of wanting to get software "Right" like engineers building bridges is one lie they probably tell you in school. Yes, it's a false analogy and those engineers you've met should have advised you but then, it's impossible to get software right, you've heard about all those theories right? [They] are probably too busy drafting UMLs, drinking Coffee and talking about the software they should have written. Yes, there are those building stuff for rockets, life support etc, but what percentage is that of those building software?

If you're looking to hire someone to build the software that will power Nigeria space shuttle, I think you have a different problem on your hands than is being discussed here. And I will again insist, writing code is cheap, writing creative and beautiful code is the nirvana and asking people to writing code at interview is waste of time, it's better to see how they think through their problem to their solutions.

Those said, at some point in your life, you should read this book: http://pragprog.com/the-pragmatic-programmer ( I can go on and on about this book, forget f%cking GOF, this book is the sh#t, but I digress)


*Book refs made (just for the sake of those who don't want to read all my droll):

http://www.amazon.com/The-Art-Thinking-Allen-Harrison/dp/0425105687
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_Is_Flat
http://pragprog.com/the-pragmatic-programmer

@ delomos
My advice for you is to stop posting stuff you know nothing about. You and your ogas are not Software Engineers so it is not for you to come on this forum to post what you don't know about Software Engineers. I can see that you believe software developments starts and ends with what your ogas tell you and what you do at your place of work. This makes you feel you know all, but the truth is that you know very little about Software development and instead of criticizing advance stuff you know nothing about, it will be better for you to ask questions about what you don't know so that you can learn something new, which you can tell your ogas about.

csharpjava:
#3. The Formal Specification I posted above is for solving real life problems and is a must for any programmer writing Business, Mission or Life Critical applications to follow before writing a single line of code as testing intergrity software after coding is a waste of time and effort, just as engineers do not build a bridge and then as you to drive your car over to test if the bridge will fall down or not so that they can go back and fix the error they have made, no they only have one shot at getting the bridge right the first time. This is the reason software engineers have to convert from UML specification to a Formal Specification from which they can then write their codes for that application.

@csharpjava, while the bolded is correct, i do not agree that you need a software engineer to accomplish them. A database expert is more than capable to do the job perfectly well. i don't know about software engineering & i can't make head or tail of the formula you posted earlier, but the requirements here are certainly not beyond the scope of database analysis of business processes, relationships & design. so, the expertise of a software engineer must include somethings beyond this scenario.

csharpjava:
@delomos
My advice for you is to stop posting stuff you know nothing about.You and your ogas are not Software Engineers so it is not for you to come on this forum to post trash about Software Engineers. I can see that you believe software developments starts and ends with what your ogas tell you and what you do at your place of work. This make you feel you know all, but the truth is that you know very little about Software development and instead of criticizing advance stuff you know nothing about, it will be better for you to ask questions about what you don't know so that you can learn something new, which you can tell your ogas about.

Thanks for the advice: I know nothing about software development, I'm trashing S/Eng ( though I don't recall doing that but then I'm not smart enough) all well and good, thanks again.

So you advice I ask what I don't know; I will take that into account right away and ask:
- what software project "in the wild" have you personally contributed to lately, please post the excerpt or @ least a link or better yet source code(if it's O/S)?

Meanwhile, I seriously doubt Nigeria software industry is in jeopardy because of what I do, so I think you can safely put your fears to rest ( and maybe sleep well at night) or better yet, come back home and teach us the "true" way, don't get brain drained mate -- wait, on the other hand, I think we're good, stay wherever you are.

@okeyxyz

okeyxyz:
..... so, the expertise of a software engineer must include somethings beyond this scenario.

^^^ my point exactly.

delomos:
So you advice I ask what I don't know; I will take that into account right away and ask:
- what software project "in the wild" have you personally contributed to lately, please post the excerpt or @ least a link or better yet source code(if it's O/S)?

Don't miss quote me, I'm not here to show off what I have done, I'm only here to share my knowledge with those that are interested and to correct any false claims from your ogas and others about Software Engineers.

csharpjava:
Don't miss quote me, I'm not here to show off what I have done, I'm only here to share my knowledge with those that are interested and to correct any false claims from your ogas and others about Software Engineers.

@delomos, @csharpjava, @okeyxyz... I'm really interested in a career in s/w eng. How do I go about it without having a formal University Degree in software engineering??

@csharpjava

csharpjava:
Don't miss quote me, I'm not here to show off what I have done, I'm only here to share my knowledge with those that are interested and to correct any false claims from your ogas and others about Software Engineers.

I thought so too, you're only here to talk, when you're grown enough to back your claims with real facts come back, preferable after you've read those books I referenced earlier.

Till then, this might keep you busy for a very long time: https://gist.github.com/2352580#

@techytom:
Any answer will derail this thread, you can start your own thread or better yet, see attachment below:

@delomos
I have already given real facts to back up my claims and you have not even tried to complete the Formal specification I posted earlier. Here is another fact, see below the work of a software Engineer at Google, this is an extract from a recent job advert and I hope you show it to your ogas. The bolded involes coding which are what your ogas have told you Software Engineers cannot do.

The role: Software Engineer, GoogleDotcom

As a Software Engineer working on Google's critical production applications and infrastructure, your mission will be to ensure Google is always fast, available, scalable and engineered to withstand unparalleled demand.

"You will design and develop systems to run Google Search, Gmail, YouTube, Maps, Voice, AppEngine, and more."

"As a successful candidate for this role you will have strong analytical and troubleshooting skills, fluency in coding and systems design"

"Manage availability, latency, scalability and efficiency of Google services by engineering reliability into software and systems"

"Respond to and resolve emergent service problems; write software and build automation to prevent problem recurrence"

csharpjava: @ delomos
My advice for you is to stop posting stuff you know nothing about. You and you ogas are not Software Engineers so it is not for you to come on this forum to post trash about Software Engineers. I can see that you believe software developments starts and ends with what your ogas tell you and what you do at your place of work. This make you feel you know all, but the truth is that you know very little about Software development and instead of criticizing advance stuff you know nothing about, it will be better for you to ask questions about what you don't know so that you can learn something new, which you can tell your ogas about.

Word.
Tell that empty windbag where to go jare.

@csharpjava:
So what exactly does a job description at Google have to do with this?

What I need is your own personal credentials that gives you so much confidence to say to my ogas or I have never met a software engineer. After which I will dutifully relay the message

That's my curiosity.

afam4eva: Some people know how to create some specific applications because they've mastered them but they don't understand the logic behind those applications. So, i think asking someone to solve a puzzle helps more because knowing the logic in bits helps in developing the full application. I hope i'm making sense.

How can someone write an app without understanding the logic behind it?

delomos: @csharpjava:
What I need is your own personal credentials that gives you so much confidence to say to my ogas or I have never met a software engineer. After which I will dutifully relay the message

That's my curiosity.

Don't worry when I'm around next time, I'll be able to put your curiosity to rest by showing myself to you in person with my personal credentials so you can take me to your ogas, for them to meet a REAL Software Engineer for the first time.

[ *chuckle* ]
@csharpjava:
You've made the following premises:
1. I'm in Nigeria
2. Being in Nigeria, I (or my ogas) have no clue on software engineering.
3. On those, you, being somewhere not in Nigeria can be condescending.
4. You (a software engineer), knowing more, will come to Nigeria and show us how things are done.

okeyxyz:

@csharpjava, while the bolded is correct, i do not agree that you need a software engineer to accomplish them. A database expert is more than capable to do the job perfectly well. i don't know about software engineering & i can't make head or tail of the formula you posted earlier, but the requirements here are certainly not beyond the scope of database analysis of business processes, relationships & design. so, the expertise of a software engineer must include somethings beyond this scenario.

Sorry I brought S/E into this thread, I had to in order to correct some misconceptions about S/E, for the sake of those who do not know about S/E.

You are right you don't need Formal Specifications in Software Engineering for most applications, but when it comes to Mission, Business and Life Critical applications you will need a S/E to convert UML Class Diagrams to Formal Specifications like the one I posted before, it is from these Formal Specification that the actual code are then written, this will help save time, effort and money involved if it had been coded straight from the UML Class Diagram and then tested. But with Formal Methods in S/E, all the testing would already have taken place in the Formal Specification.

techytom:
@delomos, @csharpjava, @okeyxyz... I'm really interested in a career in s/w eng. How do I go about it without having a formal University Degree in software engineering??

What you are asking is akin to asking how one can become a Chemical/Biological Engineer without Formal Education. It is not easy, and not an advisable route.

udifrancis:
How can someone write an app without understanding the logic behind it?

Simply Google up ready-made solutions and plug them all up to get something working.

Kobojunkie:

Simply!! Google up ready-made solutions and plug them all up to get something working.

A.k.a Mumbai Coding.

Isn't only limited to Mumbai.

And in principle there is nothing wrong with stitching together/modifying existing ready-made solutions, so long as:

a) you understand what is going on
b) you aren't violating any copyright

Please Seun, I have tweeted to Nairaland several times on twitter, requesting that you please retweet an important survey link that im carrying out on nigerians: https://www.nairaland.com/1073662/market-research-survey-service-providers#12543446
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/Market_research_survey_for_service_providers_and_requirers

Could you please help spread the word? Thanks very much!

No Puzzle , Whiteboard or 1 hr coding exercise can hire a skilled developer. Seen people talk big , How they solved problems in Project Euler and don't know the difference between Message Queue or Job Queue.

Imagine this interview questions:

- Describe how POST data was submitted to a server by a browser and compose sample raw POST.
- Explain a number of HTTP status codes (except maybe 200, 404 and 500).
- Explain SOLID or name & explain a design pattern.
- PS4 || XBOX One which is better

Notice :

- None of the questions require programming
- None of the questions is Language dependent
- Any Experienced developer most have encountered this before
- The last question about games speaks for its self

Am sure they are "good developers" here who do not know the answers but "They can learn it in 1 hour if you explain it to them" so why use this criteria in the fist place ?

Let them work with you for a day or 2, Put their craftsman to test then step back, Observe how they work, how they interact with other developers and solve each task. They might not have 100% of what you want but you can easily tell if "binary is their blood"

On final note ... Don't use the Nigerian "Jack of all trade" approach and expect your developer to know everything, all some good developers require is a push so only Hire Developers "who are ready to push the limit of their abilities".

csharpjava:

Sorry I brought S/E into this thread, I had to in order to correct some misconceptions about S/E, for the sake of those who do not know about S/E.

You are right you don't need Formal Specifications in Software Engineering for most applications, but when it comes to Mission, Business and Life Critical applications you will need a S/E to convert UML Class Diagrams to Formal Specifications like the one I posted before, it is from these Formal Specification that the actual code are then written, this will help save time, effort and money involved if it had been coded straight from the UML Class Diagram and then tested. But with Formal Methods in S/E, all the testing would already have taken place in the Formal Specification.

this is one wrong misguided analogy bedevilling d software industry. Ppl try to force some standard and convention on as the the new convention aka best practices is a truism in d same class as a mathematical theorem.
Uml is one of them. Uml , is just a language for describing a system.
It is not THE language! It survives cuz it the industry favorite, if in a small in hpuse team , or as a solo dev, a different language is deviced , does tht make those devs less of software engineers!
Must rectangles be used! This is nothing but bunkum.
Theyre some seasoned veterans who feel uml is overly bloated and obtuse.
Lets thing properly instead of feeling professional cuz of buzz word compliance.
This is how callow devs do everything to appear professional , only to realize tht the rebels and free spirits who resist blind conformity are the ones setting paces for d industry by questioning and deviating status quo.

lol, easy bro.

i also dont subscribe to commenting that much, i only do it if i know i may be handing the project over to a commenting freak or a dullard

your code should do most of the commenting, and where it can't you add comment
for instance

initCounter=0;

for x in searchResultWidgets:
     #insert item only if it exists
     if x.text().strip() != "":
          initCounter+=1
          childTreeWidget=QtGui.QtreeWidgetItem(addressBookTreeWidget)
          childTreeWidget.setText(x.text())
          addressBookTreeWidget.insertTopLevelItem(0,childTreeWidget)

for christ sake, not only are the variable names self descriptive, the built-in method names like insertTopLevelItem() explains what is happening
and if you dont grab this, you probably need to get books and learn at least the basics and also familiarize yourself with what you are about working on.

I need a developer who is really good with Adobe Flash, interactive touch screen apps for mobile OS (Android and WinCE 5.0).
Send me a PM if you are good enough, and are up for some pp

AjanleKoko: I need a developer who is really good with Adobe Flash, interactive touch screen apps for mobile OS (Android and WinCE 5.0).
Send me a PM if you are good enough, and are up for some pp

Why not hire a professional on People Per Hour? The rates are very good and you get to pick from a pool of experienced professionals (unless of course you want to meet the developer in person).

Kobojunkie:


Wrong!! I know first hand that is not the case.

Programmers who are well versed in logic and algorithm analysis skills are not necessarily the best programmers, and are certainly not all able to learn all that is necessary to get the job done. Many of 'em are simply very good at handling those quick task, such designing solutions for complex problems. However, when it comes to sitting down to code websites which require commitment and long hours, tackling the many, for lack of a better phrase, 'mundane tasks' that many so-so programmers are used to, they find it hard to deal.

Companies that majorly suggest puzzle solving are companies that are looking for people who are able to provide quick solutions/patches needed for mainly complex applications, not your run of the mill website project.
Web Developers don't really require puzzle solving skills. . . . I mean 70% of the times, once you have coded one website, you can code em all.It would be great if you could find someone who has ability to solve puzzles but also settle for the typical tasks.

Some of my colleagues are very good puzzle solvers . . . . but when it comes to coding your typical application, I would rate many of them a 4 out of 10. One seems to have answers for most every situation but has a hard time sitting down to actually code up the very same solutions, yet he is a brilliant dude.

you have a point and that has led me to believe both should be used
puzzles are good for expanding ones speed, ability to work under pressure especially in a case whereby the problem is dynamic(no previous solution). whereas testing with web applications is also of use as it filters out those who don't have adequate experience even if the are "brains" as you all know in times of "desperation" experience is of more value to any company than an almighty "brain" they both have their pros and cons, so it would be better to have a hybrid test to truly fish out the "Experienced Brain" which is most suited for the job(the "creme d' la creme". A good analogy would be man who has intuition but lacks automation and a computer which lacks intuition but has automation. they are both problem solvers but each has an advantage, both may be smart but one is smarter(man : sharp man no be thief ), both fast but one faster(computer : dem [e] neva show ma village )
when both are combined (theoretically: we don't want a terminator now do we )
[size=16pt]WE HAVE A FASTER AND SMARTER PROBLEM SOLVER [/size]
AM OUT

I work for a US-based advertising agency.

We are trying to place banner advertising on Nairaland Forum for one of our major corporate clients.

However, your procedure only allows jpeg or png files to be used.

In order to place advertising, we need to use an html tag that allows our clients to log each impression that is viewed, as well as each click on the banner.

There does not seem to be any way to contact the advertising team, so I am writing this post in hopes someone will contact me about how we can place our banner tags on Nairaland Forum.

This is a substantial campaign and we need to begin promptly.

Thank you.