i thought it right to educate many people on this forum about the subject of "poverty" which has become a topic many use as platform to attack churches and pastors.

Act 3:1 Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.
Act 3:2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;
Act 3:3 Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.
Act 3:4 And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us.
Act 3:5 And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them.
Act 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
Act 3:7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
Act 3:8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.

from the verses above, its very clear that what Jesus brought was that you can rule and reign in life without a penny in your pocket but with the Word richly soaked in your spirit.
money is a spirit and it must not rule the child of God cos the only spirit allowed to rule him is the Holy Spirit. Jesus' death and resurrection has abolished poverty and given us reign over all circumstances.

2Cor. 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

any child of God that puts his hope on amassing wealth has failed already cos that fellow is not exhibiting his faith in the Word of God.

its very clear having read many comments on this subject that so many posters live in the old testament rather than the new testament Jesus established. please snap out of the OT life and wake up to a new dawn in the NT.

poverty has been dealt with so stop romancing it and magnifying it rather live richly by the Word.

thank you.

I hope you don't mind my intrusion, BUT why does an omniscient being have two wills?

Common sense has been abolished! (by the OP)

ProPastorChris:
money is a spirit [/b]and it must not rule the child of God cos the only spirit allowed to rule him is the Holy Spirit. Jesus' death and resurrection has abolished poverty and given us reign over all circumstances.

First of all Money is not a Spirit .

Secondly the poverty Jesus referred to 99% of the time was spiritual poverty.

Consider this verse :

"This is how it will be with anyone who stores up things for himself but is not rich toward God." - [b]Luke 12:21

Proverbs 13:7 One man pretends to be rich, yet has nothing; another pretends to be poor, yet has great wealth.

@ frosbel
so you think money is just the paper you carry about> dude you have a lot to learn even occultic guys knows that money is not just the paper.

bro, spiritual poverty or no spiritual poverty, why didn't peter preach to the guy at the gate or maybe look for a coin to give him?
poverty means reduced to beggary, helpless, powerless to achieve an end.
what Jesus brought was total deletion of poverty, ridding it of its power on the church. Jesus equally took care of spiritual poverty as well as physical poverty cos the spiritual rules the physical.

i detest poverty cos its a curse that Jesus removed from us so why are we magnifying it.
the verse you quoted in isolation was the parable narrated to teach us that amassing wealth is totally wrong rather giving for kingdom purpose makes you rich toward God.

in prov. 13:7 is a corroboration of 2Co 6:10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things..
the reason for my post is to promote this mentality among all that God has given us the edge above poverty through the ministry of His Word. furthermore, Jesus taught us that our total trust should be in His Word and not in what we possess 1Tim. 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy.

poverty is not what we struggle with cos it has been defeated on the cross.

ProPastorChris: @ frosbel
so you think money is just the paper you carry about> dude you have a lot to learn even occultic guys knows that money is not just the paper.
.

Money s not paper. Thank God we are entering cashless society. Wealth and poverty is spiritual

[size=14pt]WARNING: I HOPE JOAGBAJE THE C**** DOESN'T RUN FROM THIS THREAD (LIKE HE'S DONE ON A LOT) WHEN HE FINALLY REALISES HE'S FIGHTING A LOSING BATTLE...[/size]

Now that I've got that out of the way...

ProPastorChris: i thought it right to educate many people on this forum about the subject of "poverty" which has become a topic many use as platform to attack churches and pastors.

Ok....

Act 3:1 Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.
Act 3:2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;
Act 3:3 Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.
Act 3:4 And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us.
Act 3:5 And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them.
Act 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
Act 3:7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
Act 3:8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.

Great story. A man receives physical healing instead of money...

ProPastorChris: from the verses above, its very clear that what Jesus brought was that you can rule and reign in life without a penny in your pocket but with the Word richly soaked in your spirit.

No way, this has nothing to do with those verses. The story has to do with healing, not ruling and reigning in life, not even about poverty.. Paul didn't have money on him (that doesn't mean Paul was poor or penniless). He simply chose to heal the man.

ProPastorChris: money is a spirit and it must not rule the child of God cos the only spirit allowed to rule him is the Holy Spirit. Jesus' death and resurrection has abolished poverty and given us reign over all circumstances.

Money is any object or record that is generally accepted as payment for goods and services.. (wikipedia)..
It doesn't have to be paper, it could be gold.. but as long as people have agreed to use 'it' as a means of payment, it becomes money....
How then can you say money is a spirit? If you say it's a spirit, is it a good or evil one?

2Cor. 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

Instead of picking up a verse from that chapter, why don't we explore the chapter, especially the opening verses...

2 Cor. 8

And now, brothers and sisters, we want you to know about the grace that God has given the Macedonian churches. 2 In the midst of a very severe trial, their overflowing joy and their extreme poverty welled up in rich generosity. 3 For I testify that they gave as much as they were able, and even beyond their ability. Entirely on their own, 4 they urgently pleaded with us for the privilege of sharing in this service to the Lord’s people. 5 And they exceeded our expectations: They gave themselves first of all to the Lord, and then by the will of God also to us. 6 So we urged Titus, just as he had earlier made a beginning, to bring also to completion this act of grace on your part. 7 But since you excel in everything —in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in complete earnestness and in the love we have kindled in you[a]—see that you also excel in this grace of giving.
8 I am not commanding you, but I want to test the sincerity of your love by comparing it with the earnestness of others. 9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich.
10 And here is my judgment about what is best for you in this matter. Last year you were the first not only to give but also to have the desire to do so. 11 Now finish the work, so that your eager willingness to do it may be matched by your completion of it, according to your means.

It's quite clear from these verses, that Paul wasn't bothered about how much people were willing to give, he was emphasizing on the attitude in which they gave.. earnestly and happily... This of course was mirrored in Jesus' parable of the widow's mite

Mark 12

41 Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts.
42 But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents.
43 Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. 44 They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.”

ProPastorChris: Any child of God that puts his hope on amassing wealth has failed already cos that fellow is not exhibiting his faith in the Word of God.
its very clear having read many comments on this subject that so many posters live in the old testament rather than the new testament Jesus established. please snap out of the OT life and wake up to a new dawn in the NT.
poverty has been dealt with so stop romancing it and magnifying it rather live richly by the Word.
thank you.

Lol.. you've really not made any point. You just showed you did little research before posting this.

Joagbaje:
Money s not paper. Thank God we are entering cashless society. Wealth and poverty is spiritual

I hope I have settled the 'money's not paper' argument. I trust you to try derail the thread based on that..
Define wealth and poverty, please..

EDITED

@muskeeto
And Why do you have to call me crook?

Convince me otherwise by answering the questions, instead of trying to derail the thread...

Joagbaje: @muskeeto
And Why do you have to call me crook?

musKeeto: [size=14pt]WARNING: I HOPE JOAGBAJE THE C**** DOESN'T RUN FROM THIS THREAD (LIKE HE'S DONE ON A LOT) WHEN HE FINALLY REALISES HE'S FIGHTING A LOSING BATTLE...[/size]

I thought Joagbaje was smart! I no even know say ..... Point of correction, musKeeto DID NOT CALL YOU CROOK. YOU CALLED YOURSELF A CROOK. Maybe that's what you think you are,lolz As a man thinks in his heart, (Abeg make una hellep me finish the rest). When some write and say, C****. The **** can make many alphabets and I can prove that to you.lolz

Actually, I did.. edited it so he has no reason to derail the thread

^
Okay. But he wasn't smart still. He should have quoted you.lolz . Anyway, I don't mean to derail the thread. Keep jamming with joagbaje. Very soon he will pick race like he did in the other thread.

Goshen360:
..... Point of correction, musKeeto DID NOT CALL YOU CROOK. YOU CALLED YOURSELF A CROOK. Maybe that's what you think you are,lolz As a man thinks in his heart, (Abeg

musKeeto: Actually, I did.. .

Proverbs 26:17
He that passeth by, and meddleth with strife belonging not to him, . . ;

Proverbs 25:8
Go not forth hastily to strive,lest thou know not what to do in the end thereof,when thy neighbour hath put thee to shame.

@joagbaje, Nice scripture for goshen

He has lost respect , no honor in his mouth . He is as carnal as the rest of the bunch . . pueeh!

Great jo and his goons... of course, the thread is none of their concern, its derailment is...

Mr. Muskeeto what exactly do you want if you have something significant to say which just reading through your posts am of the opinion you do then express your thoughts without bringing anyone into the picture that is inconsequential and not necessary.
Isn't it possible to discuss an issue without some of these side kicks and by-the-ways

And the trio is complete..

Still no ones bothered to discuss the subject matter...

mabell: @joagbaje, Nice scripture for goshen

Joagbaje: He has lost respect , no honor in his mouth . He is as carnal as the rest of the bunch . . pueeh!

And who is seeking respect from you? We don't have to agree as we will never agree except only on a few ground until your hypocrisy is taken out. Keep your respect to yourself. You call me carnal? When your superior carnality is all over here on nairaland with all 'Jacob' nature.huh. You that don't even have respect yourself, how will you now loose respect for someone like me. Come to think of it, are you smart in the first place? And how am i suppose to know musKeeto edited his post? if you are smart, you should hv quoted him. ~mithewww~

musKeeto: And the trio is complete..

Still no ones bothered to discuss the subject matter...

like you quoted him on the other thread when he said 'you win', then hurriedly edited it after i told him to win like a man.. now he's claiming righteous...

Three Musketeers.. please one of you should discuss the topic or forever .....

by the way, oga Jo, feel free to start.. u know say newmi and mabell fit fall your hand, if dem go first...

@ muskeeto

Do you even understand my post at all or do you just enjoy kicking against what you do not have answers for?

How could you say peter chose to heal the man when he actually said he did not have money on him? What peter did was as a result of realizing the transformation he had after receiving the holy spirit. You cannot be full of the spirit and permit poverty to rule you.

Your problem is that your mind set about being rich is tied to the manner ordinary man sees it.
Let me help you out here: being rich according to the Word is being filled by the Word and the Spirit. If you are filled this way you can never be ruled by poverty cos it has been abolished.

Until you change this wrong perception about poverty, the poor you will always have in your midst. I do not welcome poverty and I detest every form of it any where I find myself.

Poverty incapacitates you and render you helpless and vulnerable to wrong thoughts which will obviously lead to wrong actions.
Being rich according to the Word endows you, makes you see possibilities every time and gives you mastery over everything in life; you become unstoppable and overcomer always.

ProPastorChris: @ muskeeto

Do you even understand my post at all or do you just enjoy kicking against what you do not have answers for?

How could you say peter chose to heal the man when he actually said he did not have money on him? What peter did was as a result of realizing the transformation he had after receiving the holy spirit. You cannot be full of the spirit and permit poverty to rule you.

Peter didn't have money on him. So he healed the man. There's nothing about realizing transformation about the story. IT WASN'T THE FIRST TIME PETER HEALED SOMEONE...

ProPastorChris:
Your problem is that your mind set about being rich is tied to the manner ordinary man sees it.
Let me help you out here: being rich according to the Word is being filled by the Word and the Spirit. If you are filled this way you can never be ruled by poverty cos it has been abolished.

So what's your point exactly? Being filled by the Word and Spirit makes you rich in what exactly? What's your definition of poverty?

ProPastorChris:
Until you change this wrong perception about poverty, the poor you will always have in your midst. I do not welcome poverty and I detest every form of it any where I find myself.

Lol. Should Jesus also change his mentality about poverty?
Matt. 26:11

You will always have the poor among you, but you will not always have me

ProPastorChris:
Poverty incapacitates you and render you helpless and vulnerable to wrong thoughts which will obviously lead to wrong actions.
Being rich according to the Word endows you, makes you see possibilities every time and gives you mastery over everything in life; you become unstoppable and overcomer always.

Story, story... Do you know 'the word' more than teh Apostle Paul? JESUS PREACHED CONTENTMENT, not COVETUOSNESS... Contentment means being able to satisfied no matter your condition....

Phillipians 4:12

I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want.

What we have in church today, esp the Nigerian ones, are people like you who are greedy and covetous and see every page of SCripture as a gateway to more money.
Even a story about the healing of a lame man, becomes a story about freedom from poverty. And of course, you'll say 'THE HOLY SPIRIT REVEALS DEEP MEANINGS IN HIS WORD' when it's simply your greed and hunger for the better things in life, revealing those things..

Pastor chris peter didn't have any cash to give that guy..

All he had was d power in him to cure d lame man.....

The apostles could be refered to people who had little materially,but they were were wealthy spiritual...

Something the so called men of God lack today...

Because of d so much wealth theyv aquired they find it hard to preach d word of God as both Jesus,d apostles and early christians did.....

They now attach security personnels to themselves with guns to protect them....

How I detest prosperity preachers...

@ muskeeto

Peter didn't have money on him. So he healed the man. There's nothing about realizing transformation about the story. IT WASN'T THE FIRST TIME PETER HEALED SOMEONE...

what are you talking about? the guy did not ask for healing but he got healing because peter knew something unusual happened to him on the pentecost day; he was filled with the holy ghost who made him super-extraordinary; that was the transformation and he did it without Jesus being around them. its true that wasn't the first time peter healed someone but that was the first time peter healed someone that asked him for money cos he received the extraordinary strategist.

Do you know 'the word' more than teh Apostle Paul? JESUS PREACHED CONTENTMENT, not COVETUOSNESS... Contentment means being able to satisfied no matter your condition....

that is exactly what the holy ghost teaches you if you allow him.

What we have in church today, esp the Nigerian ones, are people like you who are greedy and covetous and see every page of SCripture as a gateway to more money.
Even a story about the healing of a lame man, becomes a story about freedom from poverty. And of course, you'll say 'THE HOLY SPIRIT REVEALS DEEP MEANINGS IN HIS WORD' when it's simply your greed and hunger for the better things in life, revealing those things..

you should learn to watch your unguided utterances cos they can get you in trouble.
its very evident that you are so carnally minded that greed and covetousness are what you see in the "nigerian church"; such a spiritually blind and myopic brother you are.
your carnality has darkened your mind so much that you can no longer see the good in the land.
it can be derived from your comment that you love poverty and poverty you will get except you change. i also know that you do not like better things in life, the reason you are not working presently and you do not accept gifts; the greatest deceit!!!

The bible has said it: Mar 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
people like you that pretend to know all and portray themselves as saints by condemning others are the real greed.

Glory to God. Poverty had been abolished on the Cross. Thank you for this thread @ ProPastorChris. Hallelujah to God!

ijawkid: Pastor chris peter didn't have any cash to give that guy..

All he had was d power in him to cure d lame man.....

The apostles could be refered to people who had little materially,but they were were wealthy spiritual...

Something the so called men of God lack today...

Because of d so much wealth theyv aquired they find it hard to preach d word of God as both Jesus,d apostles and early christians did.....

They now attach security personnels to themselves with guns to protect them....

How I detest prosperity preachers...

Prosperity is not about being materialistic. That's where' people miss it.

No one here said prosperity is about being masterialistic.. no one.. stop your tricks you crook

Bloody Charlatans!

Shameless bunch, deep down in the depth of their souls they know the truth,

but they are either too cowardly to accept it or too greedy to acknowledge it.

@ muskeeto

No one here said prosperity is about being masterialistic.. no one.. stop your tricks you crook

but this is exactly what you are propagating, maybe you should read through your posts again.
seem you are good at giving people names they do not bear and this is a clear indication that you do not worth it after all but we cannot stop praying for you.

Lol... that's funny.. which of my posts propagates that? The tricks you guys come up with is amazing..
@ muskeeto

what are you talking about? the guy did not ask for healing but he got healing because peter knew something unusual happened to him on the pentecost day; he was filled with the holy ghost who made him super-extraordinary; that was the transformation and he did it without Jesus being around them. its true that wasn't the first time peter healed someone but that was the first time peter healed someone that asked him for money cos he received the extraordinary strategist.

You are free to surmise.. the truth remains that the fact Peter didn't have money on him, didn't mean he was broke.. his decision to heal the man wasn't borne out of a poverty-breaking mentality, but a love mentality... To see the man free from his illnes...

that is exactly what the holy ghost teaches you if you allow him.

That is what the Holy Ghost should teach you,if you allow him to... not showing you money on every page of the Scripture..

you should learn to watch your unguided utterances cos they can get you in trouble.
its very evident that you are so carnally minded that greed and covetousness are what you see in the "nigerian church"; such a spiritually blind and myopic brother you are.
your carnality has darkened your mind so much that you can no longer see the good in the land.
it can be derived from your comment that you love poverty and poverty you will get except you change. i also know that you do not like better things in life, the reason you are not working presently and you do not accept gifts; the greatest deceit!!!

Need I say more...

The bible has said it: Mar 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
people like you that pretend to know all and portray themselves as saints by condemning others are the real greed.

Yeah, the usual misapplication of the Scripture... this is the full Scripture.. I know y'all love to pick verses at random, then you wonder why everyone thinks Jo, newmilk, mayBELL, and you are one and the same.

Mark 12:18 Then the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 19 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and raise up offspring for his brother. 20 Now there were seven brothers. The first one married and died without leaving any children. 21 The second one married the widow, but he also died, leaving no child. It was the same with the third. 22 In fact, none of the seven left any children. Last of all, the woman died too. 23 At the resurrection[c] whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?”

24 Jesus replied, “Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? 25 When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 26 Now about the dead rising—have you not read in the Book of Moses, in the account of the burning bush, how God said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’[d]? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!”

bunch of cheats and liars. how can some of you agree to poverty while you work your asses up looking for pepper. some of these people excusing poverty are not even in 9ja, why? they ran off in search of dollars, yeye liars.

@ OP; like your post but am bummed at the spate and spread of poverty in a world where there is so much to share and go round.

as for those of you that think poverty should be entertained, i think you are all nuts and should be sacrificed to the god of ogun for nothing!

if its true poverty has been abolished according to this piece, i think its worth accepting it and i believe it can make the world better than what it is today.