Jesus died only for the israelites so that God can continue working through them to establish his laws statutes and commandments in print. The israelites are the only nations that God works through ( psalms 147 vs 19-20 ). He does not work with any other nations. He is the master of heir-achy. He uplifts a nation ( psalams 75 vs 7 ) and then thats the nation he works through to get to the rest. In this case he is working through his firstborn children ( amos 3 vs 2 ).

when israel fell into sin, God could not continue working through them because the wages of sin is death ( romans 6 vs 23 ). death in this instance means spiritual death. what is spiritual death ? means complete detachment from God. your spirit is lost and detached from its source of power and guidance. When this happens the lord cant work through you anymore, but the laws had not been fully established in written form and the people whom he works through have detached themselves from him because of their sins. so what does he do to alleviate this little nuisance ?. blood is needed to atone for your sins with the lord. blood is life. blood brings life. blood gives life. with blood you atone for sins NOT FORGIVE IT (leviticus 17 vs 11 ). so he offered a sacrificial lamb that will atone for the sins of israel so as to proactively atone for their sins so that even in their sinful state he is not detached from them because their sins are proactively atoned for. meaning any sins they commit is wiped away automatically. hence the connection to the source and to the lord is constant and not intermittent as it would be if you had to go look for a goat to sacrifice. the sacrificed goat only atones for that one sin you committed. the blood of jesus atones proactively for all sins. hence continuous as opposed to intermittent connection to God and hence God can continue to work through the israelites even in their sin to bring forth the book of laws statutes and commandments to the rest of the world. even paul who struggled with sin was able to write the new testament even in his struggles because his sins had been automatically atoned for and hence the lord had constant access to him so he can bring forth his words and laws. THIS WAS THE REASON WHY CHRIST CAME TO DIE FOR THE ISRAELITES. NOT TO FORGIVE THEIR SINS BUT TO ATONE FOR THEIR SINS SO THAT GOD CAN CONTINUE TO WORK THROUGH THEM EVEN IN THEIR SINFUL STATE TO BRING FORTH HIS LAWS STATUTES AND COMMANDMENTS TO THE REST OF THE HEATHEN NATIONS.

so what does all this mean ? it simply means that Jesus dying on the cross is of no benefit to you. it was a measure necessary for the lord to get his laws out to the rest of the world. your sins are not forgiven by jesus blood. there are 2 verses which applies to you in this life.
1-ecclesiastes 12 vs 13[b] Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.[/b]

2-galatians 6 vs 7 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap ( whatever sin you commit or commandments you break, you will get a nice butt whooping for. kinda like the laws of karma. you will recieve evil for the evil you commit basically )

so the point here is you will always pay for your sins. your sins are not forgiven by jesus blood. jesus did not come to die for you. it had nothing to do with you. jesus only died so the lord can continue working to get his laws out to the world through the israelites.
you will always reap the harvest of your sins. no blood forgave you of your sins.

joe4christ: [size=15pt] Just listen to yourself speaking, the level of your ignorance knows no bound.
I initially intended leaving you to wallow in the pool of your own deluded and shallow thinking mind, but for the sake of those who might come here to read your illogically shallowed comment above, i'm gonna drop a verse that is gonna despute those gibberish nonesense you spewed above.

I would recommend you read the whole verse of the book of John 17:1-26 to get the detail of what was said.

John 17:15
15 I pray not that
thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou
shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the
world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them
through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent
me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the
world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they
also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 [size=25pt] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which
shall believe on me through their word; [/size] 21 That they all
may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that
they also may be one in us: that the world may believe
that thou hast sent me.
[/size]

you are a brainwashed and deluded fool. none of what you have written has any bearing on what i posted. john 17 vs 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. one thing you fail to realize is that biblical lingo relates to the spirit. God deals with the spirit. what this verse means is that you will get eternal life ( meaning you will not be spiritually dead and cut off from God ) IF YOU OBEY THE LAWS which were made possible through the sacrifice jesus made so the laws can be made available to the whole world. gerrit ?

listen here. there are 2 verses you hang your life on. ecclesiastes 12 vs 13 and galatians 6 vs 7.

and i just read the whole john 17 vs 1-26. do you even know how to comprehend ? thats Jesus talking to God and telling him his deed is done on earth and be ready to recieve me etc etc. and his deed apart from atoning for israels sin was to try to get them to obey the lords commandments.

leviticus 17 vs 11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

matthew 1 vs 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. ( his people not everyone. only israelites sin. why ? cuz the lord works through them ( psalms 147 vs 19 and 20 )

matthew 15 vs 24[b] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.[/b] ( only sent to the lost sheep of the house of israel not everyone. the israelites lost and detached from God because of their sins )

buzugee: you are a brainwashed and deluded fool. none of what you have written has any bearing on what i posted. john 17 vs 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. one thing you fail to realize is that biblical lingo relates to the spirit. God deals with the spirit. what this verse means is that you will get eternal life ( meaning you will not be spiritually dead and cut off from God ) IF YOU OBEY THE LAWS which were made possible through the sacrifice jesus made so the laws can be made available to the whole world. gerrit ?

listen here. there are 2 verses you hang your life on. ecclesiastes 12 vs 13 and galatians 6 vs 7.

I guess your shallow mind could atleast grasp this one;

John 3:16-18
16 “For God so loved the [size=15pt] world [/size] that he gave his one
and only Son, f that whoever believes in him shall not
perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his
Son into the [size=15pt] world [/size] to condemn the [size=15pt] world, [/size] but to save the
[size=15pt] world [/size] through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not
condemned, but whoever does not believe stands
condemned already because he has not believed in the
name of God’s one and only Son.

[size=15pt] Does the above ring a bell [/size]

the book of acts chapter 5
29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins

notice how he only came to die for israel ? read those 3 verses.

as well as this one

matthew 15 vs 24 24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

A- 1 Corinthians 15:4 "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for [size=17pt]our sins[/size] in accordance with the Scriptures,"

B-Romans 4:25 "He was delivered over to death for [size=17pt]our sins[/size] and was raised to life for our justification."

C-John 1:29, "The next day he saw Jesus coming to him, and said, 'Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the [size=17pt]sin of the world[/size]!'"

D-1 John 2:2, "and He Himself is the propitiation for [size=17pt]our sins[/size]; and not for ours only, but also for those of the [size=17pt]whole world[/size]."

joe4christ:

I guess your shallow mind could atleast grasp this one;

John 3:16-18
16 “For God so loved the [size=15pt] world [/size] that he gave his one
and only Son, f that whoever believes in him shall not
perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his
Son into the [size=15pt] world [/size] to condemn the world, but to save the
world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not
condemned, but whoever does not believe stands
condemned already because he has not believed in the
name of God’s one and only Son.

[size=15pt] Does the above ring a bell [/size]

LOL ok let me break that verse down for you

FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD ( explanatory)
THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON ( explanatory)
THAT WHOMSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM ( him being God not Jesus. whomsoever believes in God )
SHALL NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE ( if you believe in God you will obey his commands and if you obey his commands you will not perish spiritually. this is spiritual death. being disconnected from the lord is spiritual death. )
chaapter 17. he did not send his son to condemn the world but to save the world through him ( this basically means that without Jesus, the israelites will not have their sins atoned for and the laws will not be able to get out to the world and if the laws dont get out to the world, the world will be in spiritual darkness. spiritual death. disconnected from the lord. so through jesus he saving the world from spiritual death.
chapter 18 - if you believe in christ, then you will believe in the laws brought forth by his father through the israelites. the laws of God.

sall about the LAWS playa. THE WHOLE DUTY OF MAN IS TO OBEY THE COMMANDS ( ECCLESIASTES 12 VS 13 ). JESUS DEATH ENSURED ALL OF HUMANITY GOT THE LAWS CUZ THE LAWS WERE BEEN BROUGHT TO EARTH THROUGH THE ISRAELITES WHO WERE IN A SPIRITUAL DEATH AND DISCONNECTED AND HAD TO BE RECONNECTED TO THE LORD SO THE WORK COULD CONTINUE. AND THE WORK WAS COMPLETED AND NOW WE ALL HAVE THE BIBLE.

buzugee: the book of acts chapter 5
29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins

notice how he only came to die for israel ? read those 3 verses.

as well as this one

matthew 15 vs 24 24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

I still intended allowing you to wallow in your own ignorance but for the sake of christ i might put up with you, though i've got lots of work to do over here, but let me just see what i can do to help you.

John 1:29
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him
and said, “Look! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin
of the [size=15pt] world! [/size] 30 He is the one I was talking about when I
said, ‘A man is coming after me who is far greater than I
am, for he existed long before me.

jmoore: A- 1 Corinthians 15:4 "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for [size=17pt]our sins[/size] in accordance with the Scriptures,"

B-Romans 4:25 "He was delivered over to death for [size=17pt]our sins[/size] and was raised to life for our justification."

C-John 1:29, "The next day he saw Jesus coming to him, and said, 'Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the [size=17pt]sin of the world[/size]!'"

D-1 John 2:2, "and He Himself is the propitiation for [size=17pt]our sins[/size]; and not for ours only, but also for those of the [size=17pt]whole world[/size]."

1 CORINTHIANS 15 VS 4 - HE IS SPEAKING TO THE ISRAELITES IN CORINTH. YES HE DIED FOR THE SINS OF THE ISRAELITES SO THAT HE CAN CONTINUE WORKING THROUGH THEM. THIS IS PAUL SPEAKING TO THE ISRAELITES IN CORINTH

ROMANS 4 VS 25. YES THIS IS PAUL SPEAKING TO THE ISRAELITES IN ROME. HE DIED FOR THE ISRAELITES. YES HE DID. GOD WORKS THROUGH THE ISRAELITES (PSALMS 147 VS 19 AND 20 )

JOHN 1 VS 29 - YES HE TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD BY ENSURING THAT THE WORLD IS TAKEN OUT OF THE SPIRITUAL DEATH AND DARKNESS IT WAS IN. JESUS DID THIS BY DYING FOR THE ISRAELITES SO THEY CAN CONTINUE TO GET THE LAWS THAT WILL DELIVER THE WORLD OUT OF DARKNESS TO THE HANDS OF THE WORLD. AND ONCE THE WORLD HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM DARKNESS BY OBEYING THE LAWS, WHOMEVER DECIDES NOT TO OBEY IT WILL REAP WHAT HE SOWS. (GALATIANS 6 VS 7 )TAKING AWAY SINS OF THE ISRAELITES IS DIFFERENT FROM FORGETTING AND FORGIVING IT.

1 JOHN 2 VS 2 - PROPITATION MEANS ATONING. LIKE I SAID PREVIOUSLY, ATONING IS DIFFERENT FROM FORGIVING. THE SINS OF THE ISRAELITES ARE ATONED FOR SO THAT GOD CAN HAVE INCESSANT ACCES TO THEM TO CONTINUE HIS WORK IN THE WORLD BUT THEY WILL STILL PAY FOR THEIR SINS. IT IS NOT FORGOTTEN. AND WHAT THAT VERSE MEANS IS THAT JESUS IS THE ONE WHO ATONED FOR THE SINS OF THE ISRAELITES AND BY ATONING FOR THE SINS OF THE ISRAELITES HE HAS ATONED FOR THE SINS OF THE WORLD BECAUSE THE WORLD GETS TO RECIEVE THE LAWS, WHICH IS THE FRUIT OF THE ATONEMENT OF THE ISRAELITES, THE WORLD GETS TO ATONE THEIR OWN SINS BY FOLLOWING THE LAWS. ONE IS DIRECT ATONEMENT, THE OTHER IS INDIRECT ATONEMENT. SIMPLE AS THAT.

joe4christ:

I still intended allowing you to wallow in your own ignorance but for the sake of christ i might put up with you, though i've got lots of work to do over here, but let me just see what i can do to help you.

John 1:29
29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him
and said, “Look! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin
of the [size=15pt] world! [/size] 30 He is the one I was talking about when I
said, ‘A man is coming after me who is far greater than I
am, for he existed long before me.

HE TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD MEANS HE IS THE CONDUIT THAT WILL INDIRECTLY TAKE AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD BY ATONING FOR THE SINS OF THE ISRAELITES WHO WILL IN TURN BRING FORTH FROM THE LORD, THE LAWS STATUTES AND COMMANDMENTS THAT WILL LIFT THE WORLD OUT OF ITS SPIRITUAL DARKNESS AND HENCE OFFER AN AVENUE FOR THE WORLD TO TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS. THATS ALL THAT MEANS. YOU ARE OFFERED A WAY TO REMOVE YOUR SINS INDIRECTLY BY CHRIST THROUGH THE ISRAELITES. IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO ? YOU ARE SUBJECT TO GALATIANS 6 VS 7.

THE POINT HERE IS CHRIST DIED SO AS TO ENSURE THAT THE LAWS STATUTES AND COMMANDMENTS THAT WILL LIFT THE WORLD OUT OF SPIRITUAL DARKNESS IS COMPLETED AND DELIVERED TO THE WORLD. ONCE YOU RECEIVE THESE LAWS ? IF YOU BREAK THEM, YOU ARE SUBJECT TO GALATIANS 6 VS 7. AS SUCH, CHRIST DIED TO OFFER YOU A WAY OUT OF DARKNESS AND SPIRITUAL DEATH. BUT HE DID NOT DIE TO FORGIVE YOU OF YOUR SINS.

buzugee: LOL ok let me break that verse down for you

FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD ( explanatory)
THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON ( explanatory)
THAT WHOMSOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM ( him being God not Jesus. whomsoever believes in God )
SHALL NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE ( if you believe in God you will obey his commands and if you obey his commands you will not perish spiritually. this is spiritual death. being disconnected from the lord is spiritual death. )
chaapter 17. he did not send his son to condemn the world but to save the world through him [size=15pt] ( this basically means that without Jesus, the israelites will not have their sins atoned for and the laws will not be able to get out to the world and if the laws dont get out to the world, the world will be in spiritual darkness. spiritual death. disconnected from the lord. so through jesus he saving the world from spiritual death.
[/size]
chapter 18 - if you believe in christ, then you will believe in the laws brought forth by his father through the israelites. the laws of God.

sall about the LAWS playa. THE WHOLE DUTY OF MAN IS TO OBEY THE COMMANDS ( ECCLESIASTES 12 VS 13 ). JESUS DEATH ENSURED ALL OF HUMANITY GOT THE LAWS CUZ THE LAWS WERE BEEN BROUGHT TO EARTH THROUGH THE ISRAELITES WHO WERE IN A SPIRITUAL DEATH AND DISCONNECTED AND HAD TO BE RECONNECTED TO THE LORD SO THE WORK COULD CONTINUE. AND THE WORK WAS COMPLETED AND NOW WE ALL HAVE THE BIBLE.

Just listen to yourself, listening to your assertion all i could sense is the venum of a demon in your writings, what have you done to yourself?
Dont allow your delusion to get you to an extent where your mind would be exchanged for a reprobate mind.

You are already losing it bro, i must tell ya!
you are yet to know the Jesus i know and have had an encounter with.

The quote from Matthew 15:24 "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." is used by many to prove limited atonement. But the mistake of many interpretation is when they misinterpret out of context.

Let's look at the whole story in it's full context.Matthew 15:22-28

"And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and cast it to dogs. And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour."

Look at what happened at the end, Jesus healed her daughter. If he only came for the Jews why then did he heal her? It is important to read and digest the story before coming to a conclusion.


Jesus came to the Jews as their Messiah, yet his mission was to reach the entire world.

@ Buzugee,

I know where you are coming from. However, you are missing one thing. When you do a thread like this, you are suppose to look at the length and breath of the whole matter. Yes, Jesus came for Israel and Israel are "HIS" people BUT God is looking beyond Israel. How? I will give you an assignment to go study the whole of Romans 9,10,and 11. Study everything and see how we are en-grafted into God's salvation plan. Beside, how do you interpret these verse in respect to Matt.1:21 and John 1:11-13 (Nkjv) and I quote,

"And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins."

AND

He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:11-13

HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THESE VERSES FIRST THEN WE CAN GO TO ROMANS CHAPTER 9-11 LATER.

joe4christ:

Just listen to yourself, listening to your assertion all i could sense is the venum of a demon in your writings, what have you done to yourself?
Dont allow your delusion to get you to an extent where your mind would be exchanged for a reprobate mind.

You are already losing it bro, i must tell ya!
you are yet to know the Jesus i know and have had an encounter with.

THE VENOM OF A DEMON relax man it aint that serious. just admit that you dont understand the bible. if all sins are forgiven then why is the world the way it is ? can you just for once accept that you are not interpreting the bible correctly ? why are people in a hellish state on earth if all sins are forgiven ? can you at least use your common sense ? if all sins are forgiven why is there hunger and poverty and wars and famine etc etc ? think

It's not about israel but about mankind . Israel was based on abrahamic covenant . He chose Israel as a nation as a point of contact for the nations. There was no Israel when God made the promise to Abraham. The blessing was not for israel but for the world.

Galatians 3:14
That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

So it's not about israel . In Christ there's no Gentiles nor Jew.

Galatians 3:28-29
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

jmoore: The quote from Matthew 15:24 "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." is used by many to prove limited atonement. But the mistake of many interpretation is when they misinterpret out of context.

Let's look at the whole story in it's full context.Matthew 15:22-28

"And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and cast it to dogs. And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour."

Look at what happened at the end, Jesus healed her daughter. If he only came for the Jews why then did he heal her? It is important to read and digest the story before coming to a conclusion.


Jesus came to the Jews as their Messiah, yet his mission was to reach the entire world.

he only healed her because she was an exceptional woman. there are many instances in the bible of the lord speaking in parables because he wanted only the israelites to understand him and when asked he says it is not for them to understand but for you. there are many instances of jesus refusing people who are not israelites because he is sent by the lord to the lost sheep of the house of israel. as simple as that. yall need to read these scriptures well. yall aint reading it too well

exceptional indeed! Buzugee, humble yourself and learn the bible well. For more clarification on the Matthew verse go to http://christswords.com/node/253 and http://www.iswasandwillbe.com/Who_Are_The_Lost_Sheep_Of_The_House_Of_Israel.php

buzugee: if all sins are forgiven then why is the world the way it is ? can you just for once accept that you are not interpreting the bible correctly ? why are people in a hellish state on earth if all sins are forgiven ? can you at least use your common sense ? if all sins are forgiven why is there hunger and poverty and wars and famine etc etc ? think

You are now playing with logic like atheists. I do not know which side you are on.

Goshen360: @ Buzugee,

I know where you are coming from. However, you are missing one thing. When you do a thread like this, you are suppose to look at the length and breath of the whole matter. Yes, Jesus came for Israel and Israel are "HIS" people BUT God is looking beyond Israel. How? I will give you an assignment to go study the whole of Romans 9,10,and 11. Study everything and see how we are en-grafted into God's salvation plan. Beside, how do you interpret these verse in respect to Matt.1:21 and John 1:11-13 (Nkjv) and I quote,

"And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins."

AND

He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:11-13

HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THESE VERSES FIRST THEN WE CAN GO TO ROMANS CHAPTER 9-11 LATER.

he will save his people ( his people being israelites. he himself is from the tribe of judah ). his people are the priority. lord only works with israelites ( psalms 147 vs 19 and 20 ). he is trying to get to the whole world but he works through a people. this is one of the modus operandi of our lord. he works through a nation to get to the rest. the chosen nation is israel. if israel is in darkness because of their sins, he cant continue his work through them to get to the rest of the world. what does he do ? look for a way to atone for their sins so he can continue his work. of course the big picture is that his work is for the whole world. i didnt say his work is strictly for israel. however he deals only with israel. hence why the sacrificial lamb had to come out of the tribe of israel, judah to be xact. there is a method to the way the lord works. yall gotta decipher these methods. only then will the bible make sense.

Joagbaje: It's not about israel but about mankind . Israel was based on abrahamic covenant . He chose Israel as a nation as a point of contact for the nations. There was no Israel when God made the promise to Abraham. The blessing was not for israel but for the world.

Galatians 3:14
That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

So it's not about israel . In Christ there's no Gentiles nor Jew.

Galatians 3:28-29
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

you are right. it is not about israel but about mankind. but the lord does not deal with all mankind. he is about exclusivity when it comes to working. he works through a nation to get to the rest. so you are right, it is about mankind. however he gets to mankind through israel and has to ensure his working relationship with israel is perfect. and if israel is as stiff necked and rebellious as can be and steeped in sin, which means they are spiritually dead, he cant work through that. what is he to do ? atone for israels sins so he can continue to work through them on behalf of the world. he did this by getting someone from the lineage of israel to atone for their sins. so thats why christ died for israel and not the rest of the world. cuz God aint working through the rest of the world.

jmoore: exceptional indeed! Buzugee, humble yourself and learn the bible well. For more clarification on the Matthew verse go to http://christswords.com/node/253



You are now playing with logic like atheists. I do not know which side you are on.

well her faith was exceptional. even stevie wonder can see that. she forced his hand with her strong faith.

buzugee: THE POINT HERE IS CHRIST DIED SO AS TO ENSURE THAT THE LAWS STATUTES AND COMMANDMENTS THAT WILL LIFT THE WORLD OUT OF SPIRITUAL DARKNESS IS COMPLETED AND DELIVERED TO THE WORLD. ONCE YOU RECEIVE THESE LAWS ? IF YOU BREAK THEM, YOU ARE SUBJECT TO GALATIANS 6 VS 7. AS SUCH, CHRIST DIED TO OFFER YOU A WAY OUT OF DARKNESS AND SPIRITUAL DEATH. BUT HE DID NOT DIE TO FORGIVE YOU OF YOUR SINS.

Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the
flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you
overseers, to care for the church of God, [size=15pt] which he
obtained with his own blood. [/size] - (Acts 20:28)
[Christ] whom God put forward as a propitiation
by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to
show God’s righteousness, because in his divine
forbearance he had passed over former sins.
(Romans 3:25)
Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his
blood, much more shall we be saved by him from
the wrath of God. (Romans 5:
In [Christ] we have redemption through [size=15pt] his blood [/size] ,
the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the
riches of his grace. (Ephesians 1:7)
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off
[size=15pt]
have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
[/size]
(Ephesians 2:13)

[size=25pt] And through him to reconcile to himself all things,
whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by
the blood of his cross. (Colossians 1:20) [/size]

buzugee: you are right. it is not about israel but about mankind. but the lord does not deal with all mankind. he is about exclusivity when it comes to working. he works through a nation to get to the rest. so you are right, it is about mankind. however he gets to mankind through israel and has to ensure his working relationship with israel is perfect. and if israel is as stiff necked and rebellious as can be and steeped in sin, which means they are spiritually dead, he cant work through that. what is he to do ? atone for israels sins so he can continue to work through them on behalf of the world. he did this by getting someone from the lineage of israel to atone for their sins. so thats why christ died for israel and not the rest of the world. cuz God aint working through the rest of the world.

buzugee: he will save his people ( his people being israelites. he himself is from the tribe of judah ). his people are the priority. lord only works with israelites ( psalms 147 vs 19 and 20 ). he is trying to get to the whole world but he works through a people. this is one of the modus operandi of our lord. he works through a nation to get to the rest. the chosen nation is israel. if israel is in darkness because of their sins, he cant continue his work through them to get to the rest of the world. what does he do ? look for a way to atone for their sins so he can continue his work. of course the big picture is that his work is for the whole world. i didnt say his work is strictly for israel. however he deals only with israel. hence why the sacrificial lamb had to come out of the tribe of israel, judah to be xact. there is a method to the way the lord works. yall gotta decipher these methods. only then will the bible make sense.

But you are contradicting yourself. If you agree that God worked through Israel and NOW that God HAD ALREADY DONE that, He had already worked through Israel, how can you then say Jesus did not die to forgive us our sins?

joe4christ:

Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the
flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you
overseers, to care for the church of God, [size=15pt] which he
obtained with his own blood. [/size] - (Acts 20:28)
[Christ] whom God put forward as a propitiation
by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to
show God’s righteousness, because in his divine
forbearance he had passed over former sins.
(Romans 3:25)
Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his
blood, much more shall we be saved by him from
the wrath of God. (Romans 5:
In [Christ] we have redemption through [size=15pt] his blood [/size] ,
the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the
riches of his grace. (Ephesians 1:7)
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off
[size=15pt]
have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
[/size]
(Ephesians 2:13)

[size=25pt] And through him to reconcile to himself all things,
whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by
the blood of his cross. (Colossians 1:20) [/size]

you know you are not proving any point here ? you are quoting verses of paul speaking to israelites in rome and corinth and colossia and eveywhere paul went. you know the new testament is basically about paul travelling to the different parts of the world were ISRAELITES had been scattered by slavery and conditions and preaching to them and telling them to return to the lord. let me reiterate THIS IS PAUL SPEAKING TO ISRAELITES IN DIFFERENT CITIES

Goshen360:



But you are contradicting yourself. If you agree that God worked through Israel and NOW that God HAD ALREADY DONE that, He had already worked through Israel, how can you then say Jesus did not die to forgive us our sins?

i dont see any contradictions. no ones sins are forgiven. you will reap what you sow GALATIANS 6 VS 7. christ did not come to forgive anyones sins. he came to atone for israels sins so that the lord can continue working through them even in their spiritually dead state, so he can bring out his laws statutes and commandments for the whole world. NO ONES SINS ARE FORGIVEN. YOU PAY FOR YOUR SINS.

PAUL WAS A MAN WHO STRUGGLED HEAVILY WITH SINS. DESPITE AND IN-SPITE OF HIS SINS THE LORD COULD STILL USE HIM TO WRITE MOST OF THE NEW TESTAMENT BECAUSE CHRIST HAD ATONED FOR HIS SINS. HOWEVER HIS SINS WERE NOT FORGIVEN. HE PAID FOR HIS SINS. HE WAS GETTING LOCKED UP IN JAIL LEFT RIGHT AND CENTRE. THATS THE LORD MAKING SURE HE PAID FOR HIS SINS.
MANS GOINGS ARE OF THE LORD PSALMS 20 VS 24. the lord could have directed his steps away from the places he got arrested and locked up but he didnt cuz he had to pay for his sins

Sometimes in the process of seeking attention by creating a controversial topic on a worthless internet forum we are tempted to commit heresy.

buzugee: Jesus died only for the israelites so that God can continue working through them to establish his laws statutes and commandments in print. The israelites are the only nations that God works through ( psalms 147 vs 19-20 ). He does not work with any other nations. He is the master of heir-achy. He uplifts a nation ( psalams 75 vs 7 ) and then thats the nation he works through to get to the rest. In this case he is working through his firstborn children ( amos 3 vs 2 ).

when israel fell into sin, God could not continue working through them because the wages of sin is death ( romans 6 vs 23 ). death in this instance means spiritual death. what is spiritual death ? means complete detachment from God. your spirit is lost and detached from its source of power and guidance. When this happens the lord cant work through you anymore, but the laws had not been fully established in written form and the people whom he works through have detached themselves from him because of their sins. so what does he do to alleviate this little nuisance ?. blood is needed to atone for your sins with the lord. blood is life. blood brings life. blood gives life. with blood you atone for sins NOT FORGIVE IT (leviticus 17 vs 11 ). so he offered a sacrificial lamb that will atone for the sins of israel so as to proactively atone for their sins so that even in their sinful state he is not detached from them because their sins are proactively atoned for. meaning any sins they commit is wiped away automatically. hence the connection to the source and to the lord is constant and not intermittent as it would be if you had to go look for a goat to sacrifice. the sacrificed goat only atones for that one sin you committed. the blood of jesus atones proactively for all sins. hence continuous as opposed to intermittent connection to God and hence God can continue to work through the israelites even in their sin to bring forth the book of laws statutes and commandments to the rest of the world. even paul who struggled with sin was able to write the new testament even in his struggles because his sins had been automatically atoned for and hence the lord had constant access to him so he can bring forth his words and laws. THIS WAS THE REASON WHY CHRIST CAME TO DIE FOR THE ISRAELITES. NOT TO FORGIVE THEIR SINS BUT TO ATONE FOR THEIR SINS SO THAT GOD CAN CONTINUE TO WORK THROUGH THEM EVEN IN THEIR SINFUL STATE TO BRING FORTH HIS LAWS STATUTES AND COMMANDMENTS TO THE REST OF THE HEATHEN NATIONS.

so what does all this mean ? it simply means that Jesus dying on the cross is of no benefit to you. it was a measure necessary for the lord to get his laws out to the rest of the world. your sins are not forgiven by jesus blood. there are 2 verses which applies to you in this life.
1-ecclesiastes 12 vs 13[b] Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.[/b]

2-galatians 6 vs 7 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap ( whatever sin you commit or commandments you break, you will get a nice butt whooping for. kinda like the laws of karma. you will recieve evil for the evil you commit basically )

so the point here is you will always pay for your sins. your sins are not forgiven by jesus blood. jesus did not come to die for you. it had nothing to do with you. jesus only died so the lord can continue working to get his laws out to the world through the israelites.
you will always reap the harvest of your sins. no blood forgave you of your sins.

Mr_Anony: Sometimes in the process of seeking attention by creating a controversial topic on a worthless internet forum we are tempted to commit heresy.

this aint about heresy. this is about dispelling myths, lies, fabrications, and errors in the scriptures. thats what this here mission is about. i am sick and tired of belligerent pugnacious nincompoops like yourself twisting and bending scriptures to suit a religious agenda of keeping people subservient and scared

you cant lie to people that their sins are forgiven when they are not. you have to keep it real with folks. let them know that their sins are not forgiven and they reap what they sow. when they are going through harsh times it is not babalawo that has jazzed you up. it is something you did to someone. some evil you did to people that you are paying for. if people realise this, only then can they truly understand what the lord is all about and only then will they seek the change required to bring them closer to God. its just that simple. you people complicate it with all your lies and misinterpretations

buzugee: you know you are not proving any point here ? you are quoting verses of paul speaking to israelites in rome and corinth and colossia and eveywhere paul went. you know the new testament is basically about paul travelling to the different parts of the world were ISRAELITES had been scattered by slavery and conditions and preaching to them and telling them to return to the lord. let me reiterate THIS IS PAUL SPEAKING TO ISRAELITES IN DIFFERENT CITIES

Romans 13:7-14
7 What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did
not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened,
8 as it is written:
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes so that they could not see
and ears so that they could not hear,
to this very day.” d
9 And David says:
“May their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10 May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
and their backs be bent forever.” e
Ingrafted Branches
11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond
recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their
transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make
Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches
for the world, and their loss means riches for the
Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness
bring!
13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am
the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry
14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own
people to envy and save some of them

buzugee: this aint about heresy. this is about dispelling myths, lies, fabrications, and errors in the scriptures. thats what this here mission is about. i am sick and tired of belligerent pugnacious nincompoops like yourself twisting and bending scriptures to suit a religious agenda of keeping people subservient and scared

Note, I have not yet quoted one verse of scripture yet. neither have I ever had a conversation with you (at least not that I can recall) and yet you condemn me.

buzugee: you cant lie to people that their sins are forgiven when they are not. you have to keep it real with folks. let them know that their sins are not forgiven and they reap what they sow. when they are going through harsh times it is not babalawo that has jazzed you up. it is something you did to someone. some evil you did to people that you are paying for. if people realise this, only then can they truly understand what the lord is all about and only then will they seek the change required to bring them closer to God. its just that simple. you people complicate it with all your lies and misinterpretations

Again you take the route of verbal abuse and false generalizations, however that's by the way. Before I continue, I suspect that you are a christian and I think I understand the point you are trying make. My guess is that you are against salvation that does not convict people of their sins and emphasize the need for repentance in the process cheapening salvation. Somewhere in all these you talk about Karma as well( ) (am I right? how good is my aim?). This is a good intent, however the route you have taken borders on the heretical and will more likely mislead than enlighten those who read it.
May I ask a few questions first:
1.Are you a born-again christian?
2.Is the true intent for this thread to enlighten and edify or is it to spark some controversy and generate a buzz?
3.If we are shown from scripture how your position may be wrong will you be noble enough to acknowledge it?

buzugee: this aint about heresy. this is about dispelling myths, lies, fabrications, and errors in the scriptures. thats what this here mission is about. i am sick and tired of belligerent pugnacious nincompoops like yourself twisting and bending scriptures to suit a religious agenda of keeping people subservient and scared

you cant lie to people that their sins are forgiven when they are not. you have to keep it real with folks. let them know that their sins are not forgiven and they reap what they sow. when they are going through harsh times it is not babalawo that has jazzed you up. it is something you did to someone. some evil you did to people that you are paying for. if people realise this, only then can they truly understand what the lord is all about and only then will they seek the change required to bring them closer to God. its just that simple. you people complicate it with all your lies and misinterpretations

Buzugee,

It's now I understand your point based on the highlighted in red. You are right in respect of the highlighted in red above but I think it's your presentation at times you need to work on. Okay.

joe4christ:

Romans 13:7-14
7 What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did
not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened,
8 as it is written:
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes so that they could not see
and ears so that they could not hear,
to this very day.” d
9 And David says:
“May their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10 May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
and their backs be bent forever.” e
Ingrafted Branches
11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond
recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their
transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make
Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches
for the world, and their loss means riches for the
Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness
bring!
13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am
the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry
14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own
people to envy and save some of them

let me explain those verses. israel was and still is in complete darkness because of their rebellious nature. however even in our darkness the lord still has access to us because of the blood of jesus which has atoned proactively for our sins. however our sins are not forgiven which is why we are in a lower hellish state on earth. take nigeria as a study example. because of their rebellious nature the lord kicked them from heaven to earth ( lamentations 2 vs 1 ). this means he kicked them down from a position of custodian and rulers of the earth to a position of subservience and slavery to the gentiles. the salvation that has come to the gentiles is the ownership of the world hence ushering in the era of the gentiles. if you look around you today, gentiles are in control of the world ( the european nation or as the bible describes them, the beast with 7 heads representing the 7 hills of rome which is where all europeans sprang from. the european empire that is ). followed closely by the moabites ( chinese ), the ammonites ( japanese ), the ishmaelites ( arabs ). all these are gentile nations and they control the world. the israelites are the perpetual slaves and plunder to these gentile nations ( jeremiah 2 vs 14 )