PAGAN 9JA:


ah a hermaphrodite! good. now i know what my next topic will be. .

Lol

Honestly, I don't know why SOME Nigerians use the word tribe. It is as if they have been brainwashed by Westerners. Would you call "English or British" a tribe? Would you call "Italian" a tribe? Would you call "Arab" a tribe?

Fulaman198: Honestly, I don't know why SOME Nigerians use the word tribe. It is as if they have been brainwashed by Westerners. Would you call "English or British" a tribe? Would you call "Italian" a tribe? Would you call "Arab" a tribe?

Mr. Fulaman the british have lost all their tribes(Saxons, Britons, Celts, etc.) 1000 yrs back. today they are mixed race peoples, just like all europeans.

and Khaleeji Arabs(KSA,UAE,Bahrain,Yemen,Oman & Qatar) have Bedouin Tribes to this day. they are referred to as tribes. The Sheikh of UAE calls himself a tribesman of Bu Falahi tribe.

lebanese, iraqis, jordanians (some), palestinians, etc. are mixed race and dont have tribes.

Fulaman198: Honestly, I don't know why SOME Nigerians use the word tribe. It is as if they have been brainwashed by Westerners. Would you call "English or British" a tribe? Would you call "Italian" a tribe? Would you call "Arab" a tribe?

Exactly.

PAGAN 9JA:


Mr. Fulaman the british have lost all their tribes(Saxons, Britons, Celts, etc.) 1000 yrs back. today they are mixed race peoples, just like all europeans.

and Khaleeji Arabs(KSA,UAE,Bahrain,Yemen,Oman & Qatar) have Bedouin Tribes to this day. they are referred to as tribes. The Sheikh of UAE calls himself a tribesman of Bu Falahi tribe.

lebanese, iraqis, jordanians (some), palestinians, etc. are mixed race and dont have tribes.

Pagan, do you remember how African nobility with white laps and black faces ruled Europe?

PAGAN 9JA:


Mr. Fulaman the british have lost all their tribes(Saxons, Britons, Celts, etc.) 1000 yrs back. today they are mixed race peoples, just like all europeans.

and Khaleeji Arabs(KSA,UAE,Bahrain,Yemen,Oman & Qatar) have Bedouin Tribes to this day. they are referred to as tribes. The Sheikh of UAE calls himself a tribesman of Bu Falahi tribe.

lebanese, iraqis, jordanians (some), palestinians, etc. are mixed race and dont have tribes.

You mean kind of like how the Fulani have several "tribes"? (Toucoueleur/Tukulor, Wodaabe, Liptaako, Jelgobe, etc. etc.). Saxons btw are Germans, yes British and Germans speak a language of the same language family (Germanic) however they are still different languages.

odumchi:

Pagan, do you remember how African nobility with white laps and black faces ruled Europe?

haha no brother i am not like that idiotic OP. the Saxons i can assure you, were of fair skin, Golden hair and blue eyes. such racial purity among an entire people is extinct among todays europeans. it just occurs in rare cases, though the person is still of mixed descent.

Fulaman198:

You mean kind of like how the Fulani have several "tribes"? (Toucoueleur/Tukulor, Wodaabe, Liptaako, Jelgobe, etc. etc.). Saxons btw are Germans, yes British and Germans speak a language of the same language family (Germanic) however they are still different languages.

No. the Fulani sub-divisions are considered as Clans. THe Fulani being a large group is considered an ethnic group just like the Han Chinese Ethnic Group. but if your population falls, you will become a tribe.

The british are a general mix of 3 entirely different ethnic groups/tribes : The Britons, Saxons and Normans. Briton blood is very less though because they mostly escaped North and towards Wales, etc.

Todays Germans are a mix of 2 unrelated ethnic groups as well: The Franks and the Saxons. There is also occurance of Goth and Visigothic blood.


europe lost her tribes after the advent of christianity and the withdrawal of the Pagan Roman forces.

PAGAN 9JA:


haha no brother i am not like that idiotic OP. the Saxons i can assure you, were of fair skin, Golden hair and blue eyes. such racial purity among an entire people is extinct among todays europeans. it just occurs in rare cases, though the person is still of mixed descent.



No. the Fulani sub-divisions are considered as Clans. THe Fulani being a large group is considered an ethnic group just like the Han Chinese Ethnic Group. but if your population falls, you will become a tribe.

That doesn't make sense, it sounds like Western ideologies to me. Population should not play a role in what is considered an ethnic group. The Han Chinese ethnic group do not speak an entirely different language from Mandarin or Cantonese, they are still Chinese.

Fulaman198:

That doesn't make sense, it sounds like Western ideologies to me. Population should not play a role in what is considered an ethnic group. The Han Chinese ethnic group do not speak an entirely different language from Mandarin or Cantonese, they are still Chinese.

brother, China is a country formed only around 50-60 years back. There was no real concept of "Chinese" before that. It was the Manchurian Empire in the North and Several Hakka and Han Warlords towards the SOuth.

also ethnic group and tribe are both English words. the general sense conveyed is that both are used for racially pure groups. and in my context, the true groupings of humanity of Pagan heritage.

can we have a detailed and accurate analysis of the origins of ALL the tribes in nigeria.

trace their migrations via map as much as possible.

no unsubstantiated tales or wild flights of fancy plz.

also, no substituting myths with facts. If you must mention a myth or legend, include an explanation of what led to it and what the symbolism could possibly mean, IN YOUR OPINION and prefarably buttressed by proven, unbiased scholarly work.



for example, if you claim a sudanese migration into sw nigeria, do the tribal marks and culture in parts of yorubaland support this theory.


Any routes that explain the same?

Going to be hard to provide that. We didn't keep records

What I do know is that no ethnic group in present day Nigeria is from Nigeria originally. A lot of ethnic groups from Nigeria are from Sudan (which I believe is the origin of all West African peoples). I need more factual information on this though. I know that before Senegal/Mauritania/Gambia, Fulani people also inhabited Algeria, Morocco, etc. in the Northern Sahara (not just the Southern Sahara/Sahel) like today when the Sahara was a lush grassland, and there were no Arabs yet in that part of Africa.

ghostofsparta:

Because you dont understand something doesn't give you the right to parodize it.

IFA says: Odudua atewon ro i.e. it that descended through a mystical chain. Odudua didn't FELL like those 'fallen angel' you have in semitic religion

Oh!sorry for using d word "fell".
Seems u know much about this theory.Pls elaborate on how Oduduwa climbed down with å chain from d sky?
Who made d chain?
Where was d chain hooked when he was climbing down?

bright007:
Oh!sorry for using d word "fell".
Seems u know much about this theory.Pls elaborate on how Oduduwa climbed down with å chain from d sky?
Who made d chain?
Where was d chain hooked when he was climbing down?

Lol, guys abeg not wound perrson forr here.

Fulaman198: What I do know is that no ethnic group in present day Nigeria is from Nigeria originally. A lot of ethnic groups from Nigeria are from Sudan (which I believe is the origin of all West African peoples). I need more factual information on this though. I know that before Senegal/Mauritania/Gambia, Fulani people also inhabited Algeria, Morocco, etc. in the Northern Sahara (not just the Southern Sahara/Sahel) like today when the Sahara was a lush grassland, and there were no Arabs yet in that part of Africa.

for the Fulani, i can say that they are originally from West Africa because there have been some ancient cave paintings etc., found in their territory which is believed to be of their ancestors. ofcourse you cant be sure. more research work needs to be done.

afam4eva:
Lol, guys abeg not wound perrson forr here.

if you dont know something then stfu, what is with you and Yoruba in general?

Anyway, Olurun made the chain and give it to Obatala to make the world. Here is how the stories goes:

"His mighty brother OBATALA, one of the elite of the ORISHAS, was given the task of building the Earth. To get him started,
OLORUN, the God of the Sky, gave him a handful of mud, a chain, a five-toed chicken, and detailed instructions.

But like so many builders throughout history, OBATALA failed to turn up. Instead he had gone to a party.

Seeing his chance for fame and glory, cheeky little brother ODUDUWA pinched the holy building materials and attempted to jerry-build the Earth himself. It was only D.I.Y. on a slightly larger scale, he thought.

Advised by a friendly chameleon, he lowered the chain over the edge of heaven, climbed down, and tossed the lump of mud into the primeval sea. The five-toed chicken hopped onto the mud and began scratching it in all directions.

Rgp92:

if you dont know something then stfu, what is with you and Yoruba in general?

Anyway, Olurun made the chain and give it to Obatala to make the world. Here is how the stories goes:

"His mighty brother OBATALA, one of the elite of the ORISHAS, was given the task of building the Earth. To get him started,
OLORUN, the God of the Sky, gave him a handful of mud, a chain, a five-toed chicken, and detailed instructions.

But like so many builders throughout history, OBATALA failed to turn up. Instead he had gone to a party.

Seeing his chance for fame and glory, cheeky little brother ODUDUWA pinched the holy building materials and attempted to jerry-build the Earth himself. It was only D.I.Y. on a slightly larger scale, he thought.

Advised by a friendly chameleon, he lowered the chain over the edge of heaven, climbed down, and tossed the lump of mud into the primeval sea. The five-toed chicken hopped onto the mud and began scratching it in all directions.

Which building material was used??

afam4eva:
Which building material was used??

Does it really matter what material Olorun used? Olorun is a "GOD" after all.

ekt_bear: Going to be hard to provide that. We didn't keep records

Oral traditions a form of record-keeping.

Rgp92:

Does it really matter what material Olorun used? Olorun is a "GOD" after all.

I just wanna know if it's Dangote cement or Ibeto cement that was used. Lol.

afam4eva:
I just wanna know if it's Dangote cement or Ibeto cement that was used. Lol.

The chain was probably created using metal. Probably gold, iron or some type of rare metal we dont know of.

these Pagan legends usually have a hidden meaning. they say something and mean something else. .

PAGAN 9JA:
these Pagan legends usually have a hidden meaning. they say something and mean something else. .

True! The story about Oduduwa and falling down from heaven is still a better story than the bible, koran and torah

Rgp92:

True! The story about Oduduwa and falling down from heaven is still a better story than the bible, koran and torah

it may be something to do with the Big Ba.ng or anything for that matter. We really dont know unless extensive research is done. All Pagan legends are of that sort. Olodumare = Chukwu = Zeus = Brahma = The universal Creation. Sango = Gurzil = Kokou = Al-Qaum = Shiva = Gan Yu = Thor ,etc.. = the Destructive Forces of the Universe. The Ancient Egyptians and the Ancient Greeks .(note: the Greeks of yester-year are not the same as todays Greeks who are mixed). or the ancient universities in India and the far-East. they knew how to plot the pathways of Planets and chart the skies withput even using telescopes. the Dogon of Mali are world-renown for their ancient Astronomical skills. the Malagsy people would have never reached Madagascar if they didnt use their knowledge of the Earth's round-shape and the distance of stars and distance approximation without even using a compass. (there was even a documentary on this). and so on and so forth.

Rgp92:

if you dont know something then stfu, what is with you and Yoruba in general?

Anyway, Olurun made the chain and give it to Obatala to make the world. Here is how the stories goes:

"His mighty brother OBATALA, one of the elite of the ORISHAS, was given the task of building the Earth. To get him started,
OLORUN, the God of the Sky, gave him a handful of mud, a chain, a five-toed chicken, and detailed instructions.

But like so many builders throughout history, OBATALA failed to turn up. Instead he had gone to a party.

Seeing his chance for fame and glory, cheeky little brother ODUDUWA pinched the holy building materials and attempted to jerry-build the Earth himself. It was only D.I.Y. on a slightly larger scale, he thought.

Advised by a friendly chameleon, he lowered the chain over the edge of heaven, climbed down, and tossed the lump of mud into the primeval sea. The five-toed chicken hopped onto the mud and began scratching it in all directions.

Oh!beautiful story.
Pls on what foothold did he hang d chain?
Also where is d chain now?

ChinenyeN:
Oral traditions a form of record-keeping.

Not nearly as useful or accurate a form as written records.

^^

That pic in your signature is funny. What's it from?

ekt_bear: Not nearly as useful or accurate a form as written records.

I still wouldn't discount the utility of oral traditions.

I'm not sure...came across the picture kind of randomly.

I am not saying that they are without value. Or even giving an estimate on their value at all. I am saying, whatever the value is, it is less than that of written records.

PAGAN 9JA, Olodumare is NOT Zeus!

Rgp92, there was a time Jacob took an uncut/unworked/natural stone, used it as a pillow and slept. He dreamed of a chain extending from orun to aiye. When he awoke, he praised Eshu by setting up the stone as a pillar and pouring palm oil on it, a practice still done by Ifa devotees till this day.

@topic, various violent peoples (of the days of John) fought for the control of North Africa and parts of the Middle East from c. 600 AD, forcing the migrations of many Negro peoples southwards. Some of these violent peoples were the Byzantine, Khazars, Magyars, Serbs, Avars, Perhenegs, Seljuqs, Normans, Khwarezmians, Mamluks, Abbasids, Italans, Seleucids, amongst others. If our ancestors took the time and effort to transmit accounts of migrations from places further north-east of the Sudan, we should at least not speedily dismiss them like bastards while hastily accepting his-story (oyinbo-biased version of our story).

For instance, Nimrod was a son of Cush, a Negro, but his Empire extended far into Mesopotamia, quite an extensive portion of the Middle East. What happened to his people? Did they all suddenly turn oyinbo?Likewise the Philistines (known today as Palestine) descended from Mizraim/Egypt and had Negro features; clearly unlike the identity thieving, suicide-bombing insane people in today's Palestinians.

amor4ce: PAGAN 9JA, Olodumare is NOT Zeus!

Rgp92, there was a time Jacob took an uncut/unworked/natural stone, used it as a pillow and slept. He dreamed of a chain extending from orun to aiye. When he awoke, he praised Eshu by setting up the stone as a pillar and pouring palm oil on it, a practice still done by Ifa devotees till this day.

@topic, various violent peoples (of the days of John) fought for the control of North Africa and parts of the Middle East from c. 600 AD, forcing the migrations of many Negro peoples southwards. Some of these violent peoples were the Byzantine, Khazars, Magyars, Serbs, Avars, Perhenegs, Seljuqs, Normans, Khwarezmians, Mamluks, Abbasids, Italans, Seleucids, amongst others. If our ancestors took the time and effort to transmit accounts of migrations from places further north-east of the Sudan, we should at least not speedily dismiss them like bastards while hastily accepting his-story (oyinbo-biased version of our story).

For instance, Nimrod was a son of Cush, a Negro, but his Empire extended far into Mesopotamia, quite an extensive portion of the Middle East. What happened to his people? Did they all suddenly turn oyinbo?Likewise the Philistines (known today as Palestine) descended from Mizraim/Egypt and had Negro features; clearly unlike the identity thieving, suicide-bombing insane people in today's Palestinians.

amor4ce are you trying to give me a lessson about my own religion i have spent my entire life studying Paganism. all Pagan religions have an underlying similar concept. for example, they have a God of Creation (The Supreme Divinity/Force) A God of Destructive Forces, A God of Fertility and life-forms, etc. .

Olodumare and Zeus might have different names and diffferent backgrounds, but they represent the same Spiritual Force. Both are Supreme Gods and Forces of Creation.

and the Khazars never invaded Africa.

Nimrod and Cush are mythis and probably never existed. The Philistines are not from Egypt (i think its time you people stop connecting everything with Egypt, like thats the only civilisation on Earth). THe Phillistines are from the are areound Turkey, namely the Aegean Region. They are Indo-Europeans.

is the thread still on topic?