Atheism affirms the non-existence of God - It affirms a negative in the absolute. Anyone can see how that is a logical contradiction! To affirm an absolute negative is self-defeating, because what you are saying is: “I have infinite knowledge” in order to say there is nobody with infinite knowledge. ATHEISM AS A SYSTEM IS SELF-DEFEATING!

Atheism as a personal philosophy of life offers no ultimate hope. Death is the end of personal existence as we know it, it is the snuffing out of the centre of consciousness within the individual. If death is the end of everything that we know, what does that make of justice that evidently is not dispensed in our courts of law? What does that make of any ultimate sense of right and wrong?

Without God there is a complete loss of meaning-there is no point of reference that defines what the meaning of life is all about.

“Nothing good can come if the will is wrong, and to give evidence to him who loves not the truth is only to give him more plentiful material for misinterpretation.”

^^^
you are not an atheist, so what are you?

cyrexx: ^^^
you are not an atheist, so what are you?

I have a theistic worldview as espoused by Christ Jesus.

its a pity for one to base his beliefs on a mythical figure

1supremo:

I have a theistic worldview as espoused by Christ Jesus.

CAPTAIN T: its a pity for one to base his beliefs on a mythical figure

You are very correct! All the evidence you need to dispel all doubts on Christ's existence are available. Israel is not some fairy land that only exists in literature pieces, get a visa and go find out for yourself if He never lived there. Atheist are noted for plugging their ears to reasons.

1supremo:

I have a theistic worldview as espoused by Christ Jesus.

and you think your worldview is right while other worldviews are wrong?

cyrexx:

and you think your worldview is right while other worldviews are wrong?

'TRUTH' by definition is exclusive. If something is true, its opposite cannot be true. Jesus says "I am the way, the TRUTH and the life....John 14V6" That, he undoubtedly clarified by the harmony in his lifestyle and teachings. There are places where several worldviews are parallel, so I wouldn't say all other worldviews are wrong. I'd only say they are right where they overlap the christian worldview.

1supremo:
'TRUTH' by definition is exclusive. If something is true, its opposite cannot be true. Jesus says "I am the way, the TRUTH and the life....John 14V6" That, he undoubtedly clarified by the harmony in his lifestyle and teachings. There are places where several worldviews are parallel, so I wouldn't say all other worldviews are wrong. I'd only say they are right where they overlap the christian worldview.

lol.


There is no physical proof of Jesus's existence. None. No archaeological findings, nothing.


No evidence for Yaweh either.

1supremo:

I have a theistic worldview as espoused by Christ Jesus.

Were you by sheer coincidence born into a Christian Family? Or were you born into a Muslim or Jewish or Hindu or Pagan or Atheistic family etc?

logicboy01:

lol.


There is no physical proof of Jesus's existence. None. No archaeological findings, nothing

Is this an expression of SINCERE IGNORANCE or a cheap shot at scepticism?

1supremo:
Is this an expression of SINCERE IGNORANCE or a cheap shot at scepticism?

Lol.....see this sheep talking. Do you have any proof that Jesus existed outside the bible?

logicboy01:


Lol.....see this sheep talking. Do you have any proof that Jesus existed outside the bible?

You just proved my point

1supremo:
“Nothing good can come if the will is wrong, and to give evidence to him who loves not the truth is only to give him more plentiful material for misinterpretation.”

You'll always want some more proofs because of the highlighted phrase above and not because there are no pointers to the truth. Do you have plausible proofs that Jesus' existence was a hoax?

1supremo: Atheism affirms the non-existence of God - It affirms a negative in the absolute. Anyone can see how that is a logical contradiction!

what do you mean by the "absolute" and why is rejecting it a logical contradiction?

The Absolute is the concept of an unconditional reality which transcends limited, conditional, everyday existence. It is sometimes used as an alternate term for "God" or "the Divine"[1] especially, but by no means exclusively, by those who feel that the term "God" lends itself too easily to anthropomorphic presumptions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_(philosophy)


if this is your "absolute", then it's nothing but a concept to be rejected or accepted. It may be "absolute" to you but it's not objective.Try to understand, that belief in god is subject to individual preference and dependent on credulity, so while you think the concept of god is in fact real, some of us just view it as an idea and nothing more.

1supremo: Atheism as a personal philosophy of life offers no ultimate hope. Death is the end of personal existence as we know it, it is the snuffing out of the centre of consciousness within the individual.

There is no "ultimate hope". You are born and if you're lucky, you live a relatively healthy life and then you cease to exist. Death is the final insult to the human yearning for meaning in a world where there is no objective meaning.
Your "ultimate hope" is just wishful thinking meant to help you deal with your eventual demise. Your religion is a ready made coping mechanism for dealing with nihilism. Instead of acknowledging and accepting your insignificance in a meaningless world, your religion has taught you that, you're a "creation of a LOVING God" who will reward you in a place better than this "cruel world"......after you die of course. Instead of coming to terms with the fact that you're just a human fated to live a few decades and then permanently cease to exist, you've been brainwashed from birth that there is an even greater entity than the universe who cares about you and will let you live "forever". Religious beliefs that put humans on a pedestal are nothing but man's attempts to deal with this existential angst of a universe devoid of any rational and/or objective reason we can find for existing.

1supremo: If death is the end of everything that we know, what does that make of justice that evidently is not dispensed in our courts of law? What does that make of any ultimate sense of right and wrong?

The ancient jews and first christians "solved" this riddle by creating a god that serves the justice not "dispensed in our courts of law".

Your comment is further proof that religious beliefs are nothing but man's attempts to foist his "rationality" on a universe that doesn't play by his rules.
The religious mode of thinking creates a world where the people who wrong us and don't get punished in this reality get their just due in whatever reality the religious leaders create.

Martian:


what do you mean by the "absolute" and why is rejecting it a logical contradiction?

For instance, I say there is a Supreme Being Who has infinite knowledge of the universe (I don't say I am that being). If you assert that there is no such being anywhere in the universe, you have assumed that your knowledge of the universe is infinite. While you are trying to disprove me, you end up telling me you are the person I am talking about.

1supremo:
Without God there is a complete loss of meaning-there is no point of reference that defines what the meaning of life is all about.

This is the only true part of your post. There is no meaning of life; but "God" is the ready made answer that has been passed down fromm time immemorial.
God is the feel good answer. God is the answer that makes you feel like life is worth living. God is the idea that man came up with to fill the gaps in his knowledge. God is the meaning of life to those who can't come to terms that they are insignificant animals living on a rock in the midddle of nowhere. God is the idea that embodies some people's desire to escape death. God is the hope for a universe that rhymes with human desires. God is nothing. Life means nothing objectively and every so called meaning of life is purely subjective.

1supremo:

For instance, I say there is a Supreme Being Who has infinite knowledge of the universe (I don't say I am that being). If you assert that there is no such being anywhere in the universe, you have assumed that your knowledge of the universe is infinite. While you are trying to disprove me, you end up telling me you are the person I am talking about.

No, I'm telling you that the "person" you are talking about is an idea. God is an idealized "person".
Your God has human characteristics because he was made in man's image. A jewish man to be specific.

Martian:

God is nothing. Life means nothing objectively and every so called meaning of life is purely subjective.

As expected, you are making fallacious assertions to substantiate you denial of the known proofs of the existence of God. Answer these simple question honestly:

1. RAPING WOMEN, CHILD MOLESTATION, MURDER are ___________WRONG?
(a) relatively (b) absolutely
I'll assume you chose (b). Otherwise you'll be saying good and evil vary with individuals and there is no action that is absolutely evil.

2. If you agree with my choice of answer, you have also assumed that there is a moral law (on the basis of which to differentiate between good and evil).

3. If you posit that there is a moral law, you must also agree that there is a MORAL LAW GIVER.

That MORAL LAW GIVER is GOD

which God are you refering to. is it Jewish Yahweh or Islamic Allah or Yoruba Orunmila or Indian Brahma or many other Almighy Gods[b] whose followers can make EXACTLY the same argument you are making here.[/b]

be specific and define clearly your own version of the Almighty God.

1supremo:

As expected, you are making fallacious assertions to substantiate you denial of the known proofs of the existence of God. Answer these simple question honestly:

1. RAPING WOMEN, CHILD MOLESTATION, MURDER are ___________WRONG?
(a) relatively (b) absolutely
I'll assume you chose (b). Otherwise you'll be saying good and evil vary with individuals and there is no action that is absolutely evil.

2. If you agree with my choice of answer, you have also assumed that there is a moral law (on the basis of which to differentiate between good and evil).

3. If you posit that there is a moral law, you must also agree that there is a MORAL LAW GIVER.

That MORAL LAW GIVER is GOD

Actually, the Christian God is not a worthy moral law giver because he recommended the things you listed above: rape, molestation and murder.
Are you sure you wish to be identified with that God?

@poster,
You ve made your point and God will bless you. My advice is that you stop further talk with attheists. We ve argued enough with them and its obvious that they know that there is God and that the bible is true but they think that arguing with us will help strenghten their belief. And of course when we see them we believe the bible more because it is written that there will be more of them in the last days so we are not suprised.

1supremo: Atheism affirms the non-existence of God - It affirms a negative in the absolute

“Nothing good can come if the will is wrong, and to give evidence to him who loves not the truth is only to give him more plentiful material for misinterpretation.”

I wonder why it is so hard to make you guys understand that Atheists do NOT affirm anything, but rather, it is the religious goons who make an affirmation that there is a God. Atheists only make a simple proposition that there is no evidence that there is a God anywhere, and the onus lies with they who make an affirmation that there is one to provide the evidence in support of their claim. The absence of evidence is the evidence of absence.

1supremo:

You just proved my point



You'll always want some more proofs because of the highlighted phrase above and not because there are no pointers to the truth. Do you have plausible proofs that Jesus' existence was a hoax?

1) The only mention of Jesus is from the scriptures from which we do not know the authors and neither did the authors claim to have met christ;

Not only do we not know who wrote them, consider that none of the Gospels existed during the alleged life of Jesus, nor do the unknown authors make the claim to have met an earthly Jesus. Add to this that none of the original gospel manuscripts exist; we only have copies of copies

2) Add to that tat the bible itslef has contradictions and not very good for historical data.


3) Hecules and Jesus have the exact same amount of proof.

alexleo: @poster,
You ve made your point and God will bless you. My advice is that you stop further talk with attheists. We ve argued enough with them and its obvious that they know that there is God and that the bible is true but they think that arguing with us will help strenghten their belief. And of course when we see them we believe the bible more because it is written that there will be more of them in the last days so we are not suprised.

Whenever I read your posts I just see you as a programmed zombie that can't even think for himself. See what you said in your second sentence. Don't you remember that topic u started challenging us athiests and freethinkers to challenge God by saying something like "There is no God that he should strike us down" That we should say it like 5 times if we get the liver?

When every atheist came and begged your God to strike us down and you realized that nothing was going to happen because your God can't talk for himself. You ran away from the topic that you created. Now your back here talking the kind nonsense that you talk in your second sentence.

alexleo: @poster,
You ve made your point and God will bless you. My advice is that you stop further talk with attheists. We ve argued enough with them and its obvious that they know that there is God and that the bible is true but they think that arguing with us will help strenghten their belief. And of course when we see them we believe the bible more because it is written that there will be more of them in the last days so we are not suprised.

no, the real truth is:
@poster,
You have made your point and point is illogical and unreasonable as you attempt to defend your imaginary god taught by christianity. My advice is that you do your proper research and stop making a fool of yourself and your religion. We have argued enough with religionists and it is obvious that they will stubbornly hold on to their superstitious beliefs according to their religion due to their psychotic fear of hell fire invented by their religions. but they think that arguing with us will strengthen their beliefs and win them more souls in order to get more imaginary crowns in their imaginary heaven. of course when we see them, we are sure that their days are numbered as mankind will progress and advance beyond all these superstitious beliefs and RATIONAL THINKING will eventually trump RELIGION as the last days of the latter means the new dawn of the former, so we are not surprised

manmustwac: Whenever I read your posts I just see you as a programmed zombie that can't even think for himself. See what you said in your second sentence. Don't you remember that topic u started challenging us athiests and freethinkers to challenge God by saying something like "There is no God that he should strike us down" That we should say it like 5 times if we get the liver?

When every atheist came and begged your God to strike us down and you realized that nothing was going to happen because your God can't talk for himself. You ran away from the topic that you created. Now your back here talking the kind nonsense that you talk in your second sentence.

yes o,

i wonder how quickly he forget the big fool he made of himself not long ago on that thread

https://www.nairaland.com/445085/chalenge-huxleykay-17ogaga4luv-other-atheists#6032335

where he challenged atheists to say: GOD IF YOU EXIST AS THE CHRISTIANS WANT US TO BELIEVE , THEN LET ME BE BLIND FOR THREE CONSECUTIVE DAYS FROM NOW.

many athiests took up the challeged and he ran away like a whipped puppy.

alexleo: @poster,
You ve made your point and God will bless you. My advice is that you stop further talk with attheists. We ve argued enough with them and its obvious that they know that there is God and that the bible is true but they think that arguing with us will help strenghten their belief. And of course when we see them we believe the bible more because it is written that there will be more of them in the last days so we are not suprised.

Can you actually not believe in something you know to be true?
Seriously, the ideas you Christians sometimes express can be quite embarrassing.

1supremo:
As expected, you are making fallacious assertions to substantiate you denial of the known proofs of the existence of God.

What are these known proofs?

1supremo:
Answer these simple question honestly:
1. RAPING WOMEN, CHILD MOLESTATION, MURDER are ___________WRONG?
(a) relatively (b) absolutely
I'll assume you chose (b). Otherwise you'll be saying good and evil vary with individuals and there is no action that is absolutely evil.

Rape and murder can't be tolerated in a society that wants to live in peace and live by the rule of law. That's why they are wrong. "Good and Evil" are relative because they are human constructs. Humans decide individually and collectively what they deem good and evil. Rape and murder just happen to be on the list becaue of the progress of civilization. So do not assume that I will choose (b)...............e.g I think the "murders" of Ghaddaffi and his son were "abolutely" RIGHT. Maybe they were "relatively" WRONG. I think rape is wrong because it's a violation of an individual's volition and that's what I consider "evil".

1supremo:
2. If you agree with my choice of answer, you have also assumed that there is a moral law (on the basis of which to differentiate between good and evil).
3. If you posit that there is a moral law, you must also agree that there is a MORAL LAW GIVER.
That MORAL LAW GIVER is GOD

Bla bla bla..MORAL LAW GIVER.....bla bla bla...God.

Let's examine the "moral law giver" and the celebration of "passover"

[b]Exodus
12:24 And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.
12:25 And it shall come to pass, when ye be come to the land which the LORD will give you, according as he hath promised, that ye shall keep this service.
12:26 And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean ye by this service?
12:27 That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the LORD's passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.
12:28 And the children of Israel went away, and did as the LORD had commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they.
12:29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.
12:30 And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead.[/b]

To recap, the "moral law giver" does some magic tricks to make the phantom pharoah stubborn. Then he creates a new celebration called passover. He explains passover by saying that he will "murder" all the first born humans and CATTLE!! So in subequent years the jews and you christians can celebrate the day your god went on a gratuitous killing spree of people and COWS!!!

That's your phantom "moral law giver" in a nutshell.He is nothing but an idea borne out of the imagination of some psychotic nationalistic jews.

cyrexx:

sorry, which God are you refering to. is it Jewish Yahweh or Islamic Allah or Yoruba Orunmila or Indian Brahma or many other Almighy Gods.

Should I take that as a deliberate attempt at obfuscation or as an acquiescence in my stance or both?
I thought your issue is the non-existence of a CREATOR and not the religious worldview to buy into.

1supremo:
Should I take that as a deliberate attempt at obfuscation or as an acquiescence in my stance or both?
I thought your issue is the non-existence of a CREATOR and not the religious worldview to buy into.

my question is a simple question that does not require any obfuscatory or circumlocutory or any other egregious big big grammar confusion.

just answer the question in a simple clear language and define what you mean by Almighty God, before we can proceed further


so once again

cyrexx:


which God are you refering to. is it Jewish Yahweh or Islamic Allah or Yoruba Orunmila or Indian Brahma or many other Almighy Gods[b] whose followers can make EXACTLY the same argument you are making here.[/b]

be specific and define clearly your own version of the Almighty God.

cyrexx:
my question is a simple question that does not require any obfuscatory or circumlocutory or any other egregious big big grammar confusion.

Your grammar is a nightmare for people with rhotacism. Rhotacist is a ironic name for people who can't pronounce the letter R. lol