₦airaland Forum

TenQ:
So, you are running away as usual of Muslims.

I thought you said I was copying from the internet!?


I have not even presented my EVIDENCES, when I do, I shall call you. All I did was to ask a question.


What if you as Muslims discovered that Mohammed's corpse decayed as all men do: what will you do?

You insinuated that I am LOST but you cannot even defend your Islam.

Check my older posts and you will understand how in error you are!

When you discuss with an illogical individual you'll definitely leave him to wallow in his ignorance just like imam shaafi said in his poetry:

"When a fool speaks do not respond to him, it is best to be silent than responding. If you respond to him you've made him happy, if you ignore him he will die out of depression"

TenQ:
Unfortunately, you wrote much but responded to NOTHING!
All you did was to claim that I didn't know what I was saying all because I didn't state the full names of Sa'ad or At-Tabari and I didn't mention the name of their books. Unfortunately, this is just an attempt for you to avoid answering any questions. How many Al-Tabari or Ibn Sa'ad wrote early Islamic historical narrative for you.

A small test since you claim that Allah the four authors I mentioned used the science of the hadith in writing their book.

Question:
Do you believe everything written about events and history of Islam and Mohammed from Al-Tabari, Ibn Sa'ad, Al-Waqidi etc


I asked a Question before
Why do you reject ANY hadith from Hafs Ibn Sulyman?






The proper name of then God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses , David is YHWH! Is ANY of the names of your God YHWH?

Islamabad is a fusion of many Deities and Religions into one such as Arabian Religion, Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Sabians Religion etc
this is why Al-LAH is Ahad meaning ONE OF many Deities
Taoheed is the UNIFICATION of these many Deities.
This is reinforced why As-Samad is a COLLECTION into a unit like piggy bank.

Redefining the terms by modern Muslims doesn't change anything sir.

Can you tell me the names of the THREE Daughters of Hubal?

Is Allah Waheed or Ahad?

You are the one who should REPENT from following a DEITY you don't even know. A Deity that promised you a guaranteed stay in hell for some time before you are removed.

Quran 19:71-72
"And there is none of you except he will come to it (Hell). This is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed. Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees."


1. If the Truth is that you will certainly enter hell fire (even if it is temporarily), would it distress you?
2. Knowing that you will enter the fire even if it is temporary is certainly NOT Good because the time you will spend is undefined!
3. Wouldn't this knowledge help you to begin to seek for a way of avoiding this calamity?



If you are not following that God of Abraham, you are LOST sir!

My mission here was to refute you claim using a false hadeeth. That mission has been fulfilled, every sensible individual should know the truth on this topic by now, if he doesn't then perhaps he was meant to be astray and anyone who is destined to be astray we can't do much to help him.

So bye bye, mission completed.

@TenQ

The way it is posted is very difficult for me to respond and remember all the point mispoints you've mentioned. But something is evident and that is you don't know what you claim you know, for instance, the Ibn Saad you mentioned his full name is Muhammad Ibn Saad, has a book called tabaqaat ibn Saad, this book is a book actually speaks about a branch of science of hadeeth which is ilm rijaal. The knowledge that speaks about trustworthy narrators and untrustworthy narrators. Like he himself is telling us those we should accept and those we shouldn't accept based on those trustworthy people who lived in the same time with them and gave us their true picture. So you see that you don't know anything about these issues?

Another example is At-Tabari you mentioned has a book called tahdheeb Al-Aathar, in this book he applied so many principles of hadeeth, for example he said:

"Abu Shurahbil Al-Himsiy told me, he said, Ismaail told us on the authority of Amr Ibn Dinaar Al-Makki....[down to where he said]...on the authority of Saeed Ibn Al-Mussayyib..."

Then he said: "This information, with us (i.e. he himself), is has a sahih chain of narration."

You can see he appliee that principle of not accepting except knowing those who narrated a particular statement so he had to mention his chain which comprises of who heard it from who down to his on time. Then he said the chain is authentic because he deems those individuals trustworthy.

So you see that you don't know what you are saying?

It's one thing to agree that you have to apply a principle, it's another thing to apply it correctly.

I will not allow you waste my time because you clearly don't know what you are saying just copy paste from either one book written by an ignoramus like yourself feigning knowledge or from google or from chat gpt. Alhamdulillaah our religion is well preserved and we have true sources which can never be infiltrated as long as the heavens and earth exists. I am 100% sure of my religion, you can only create doubts on Muslims that don't know their religion and refuse to study.

The main topic of discussion you couldn't talk about it again, and it is, provide the other chains of narration if you are truthful, else keep quiet and continue your joke of a religion until you meet your Lord on the day of judgement and wish you listened to our warnings. Allaah said in the Quran as regards disbelievers like yourself:

"And for those who disbelieved in their Lord is the punishment of Hell, and wretched is the destination.

When they are thrown into it, they hear from it a [dreadful] inhaling while it boils up.

It almost bursts with rage. Every time a company is thrown into it, its keepers ask them, "Did there not come to you a warner?"

They will say," Yes, a warner had come to us, but we denied and said, 'Allah has not sent down anything. You are not but in great error.'"

And they will say, "If only we had been listening or reasoning, we would not be among the companions of the Blaze."" [Surah Al-Mulk verses 6 to 10]

If you like listen, if you like keep deceiving yourself, it is upon me to warn and not upon me that you believe like Allaah said:

"It is only upon you to convey the message"

So if yoi later dwell in hellfire for disbelief it is not my problem but yours, but on that day you'll ask for water and you'll not be given just like Allaah said:

"And the people of fire will call upon the people of paradise: give us water or anything that Allaah had provided you with. They (people of paradise) will say Allaah has prevented it for the disbelievers, those who took religion as play and jest [you christians jest and play claiming its worship] and they allowed this worldly live deceive them. Today they shall be forsaken just as they disbelieved in this meeting (day of judgement) of theirs and because they used to deny our verses"

Repent my friend, if you don't then let's wait like Allaah said we should tell your likes:

"Wait, we are also waiting"

Note that you are not speaking to an ignorant individual on the sciences of Islam, and all your claims will be refuted one after the other with knowledge insha Allaah. Also note that, everything here is very very easy for me and I don't need long research to respond because these are things I've studied for many years.

I will worship Allaah by destroying your claims insha Allaah.

TenQ:
1. Are you saying conclusively that if ANYONE within the Isnad of a narrative is faulty either in Character or Knowledge the whole hadith should be rejected?
How about the other chains of reliable narrators?

Yes it should be rejected except if there are mutaaba'aat (the same companion was quoted but the faulty individual/individuals has/have been replaced) or shawaaid. But I doubt you know these things. You've not even provided through which companion this was narrated, this is also a serious problem.

You claim the hadeeth has chains of narration, bring them let's see them, together with the companion that mentioned it.

2. Are you saying that a Daif Hadith is definitely FALSE?

Our Prophet has told us not to accept any thing about him except we are very sure because anyone who does so is threatened with punishment after death. So Muslims will never accept any narration about the Prophet except we are able to establish it. Also, it is illogical to accept something as true just because you think it may be correct, especially when you have a clear cut evidence that points to the opposite of that supposed "truth".

3. Are you aware that the science of the Hadiths came far long after the narrations of the Hadiths: meaning that the originators of the science of the Hadiths themselves cannot vouch for the authenticity of such hadiths

This is false you lying Shaytaan, no such thing as "originators of the science" these are nothing but principles gotten from the Quran and authentic sunnah of the Prophet, and the basis for all of these is the ayah in surah hujjaraat, Allaah the Most High, the Lord of the worlds, said:

"If a rebellious (one of questionable character) comes to you with a narration, verify it..."

So we verify what is being said before accepting as Allaah has ordered us, Muslims, to do.

Before the tribulations that happened during the time of uthmaan, they did not verify since everyone was seen as trustworthy, but when these tribulations happened they would say "name us your men (those you got this narration from)" this is the statement of Ibn Sireen who met many of the companions like Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthmaan, Ali, etc. He met all of them. So this was a principle used during the times of the companions who saw the Prophet themselves. So you are lying. I've told you that you are not speaking to an ignorant individual and I'm not someone thwt doubts his religion. I am 100% sure I'm upon the correct religion, it is you I pity when you would wish you were a Muslim in this earth as Allaah said:

"(often) will those who disbelieve wish that they were Muslims [those who have submitted themselves to Allah's Will in Islam Islamic Monotheism, this will be on the Day of Resurrection when they will see the disbelievers going to Hell and the Muslims going to Paradise]."

Have a rethink before it's too late my friend.

4. If a known armed robbery like Lawrence Anini or Monday Osunbo told a story of President Ibrahim Badamasi Babangida, it is a sufficient proof to invalidate their narrative?

As a Muslim, I will not accept it until I verify and see that it is true by myself. Because this is what my Lord has commanded me with, if your brain tells you to accept the narration of every tom dick and harru, it shows how lowly your intellect is and that is your problem. As for me and every other intellectual individual out there, then no.

5. How do you account that at least four independent historical records of the early history of Islam and your prophet recorded the fact that he died and his body decayed. Till today, much of the history of Islam is from these same books you reject snippets of things that make you uncomfortable.

As a Muslim, I don't need 4, 1 person is enough. It is never a condition for something to be true that it has to be from more than 1 source. The Messengers Allaah sent were mostly 1 except in rare cases like Musa and Haroun. Do we dismiss what these Prophets said because it's just 1 person?

Although there are many proofs for this, but I will not waste my time with an individual that does not know his Lord. If his intellect can't tell him that he should worship his true Lord, then he is a waste of time.

So it's nonsensical asking me to bring 4. The hadeeth you yourself brought from Abu Dawood is enough.

TenQ:
..

The narration that brought this is not authentic according to the science of hadeeth, the same science that was used to authentic the hadeeth in Abu Daawood which you held on to is the same science of hadeeth that will be used to render this narration useless insha Allaah. And it's very very simple.

Abdullaah Al-Bahiyy who narrated this hadeeth is not a sahaabiy (companion of the Prophet), rather he is a taabi'iy (the generation after the companions), he didn't meet the Prophet alive, he didn't witness his death and he didn't tell us from whom he got this narration, so why is it binding upon us to accept what he has said especially when we have clear cut authentic sources that say otherwise?

Some of the scholars of Hadeeth even deem Al-Bahiyy to be someone we can't rely upon in narrations due to the fact that his narrations do contradict one another. From the scholars of hadeeth who said so is Abu Haatim (born 185 years after the Prophet died) said about him:

"Any of his hadeeth should not be relied upon because he is mudtaribul hadeeth (narrations from him are contradictory on the same hadeeth"

This points to weakness in his retention and we don't accept such a person in a hadeeth, how much more if he didn't mention through which sahaabiy he has narrated this.

In summary this hadeeth is weak for two reasons, the strongest reason is we don't know how he got this narration, was it another taabi'iy like himself that told him? We need to know the trustworthiness of who told him.

The second reason is, he himself is someone we can't rely upon due to weak retention as mention by Abu Haatim.

ibroman12:
You can ask me any question on Car papers or documents, Registration or Renewal, vehicle license, Road worthiness, Insurance

I had someone help me with registration of a non-registered vehicle, then I saw "gold" chosen as a car color, whereas my car is around silver color. What can be done?

Orthodoxy:
Jazakumullah khairan sir, I'm only helping a man that is about to despair Allah's forgiveness and that is why I didn't speak out of my words or say I heard a scholar said this or that in which I may not be able to give references rather I brought paragraphs from a post and included the link to the full post. If what I did was wrong, I am so much open to corrections in order to avoid such next time.

In reality you spoke out of your own words because you brought an hadeeth that is entirely different from this individual's case, and the individual would think it applies to him due to that. This is dangerous because this is the same thing the yahood (jews) do:

ومن الذين هادوا يحرفون الكلم عن مواضعه

They change words from their proper context. Bringing a scholars statement filled with proof would've been the correct thing to do.

If you want to aid an individual, aid him with the truth not emotions. Allaah will forgive him insha Allaah, but he'll still try to give people their rights, if he dies trying to do so, then insha Allaah, Allaah would pay the remaining for him.

Orthodoxy:
Imaam Muslim collects this hadeeth in his Saheeh in the Book of repentance under the chapter of the acceptance of the repentance of the murderer even if his killings are numerous. Imaam An-Nawawee says in the explanation (17/85): ?His statement: ((Indeed there was a man who killed nintey-nine people, then he completed one-hundred, then a scholar answered that there was repentance for him)) This is the position of the people of knowledge, and there is consensus among them on the acceptance of the repentance of the one who murders intentionally, without any difference among them??

In Al-Adabul-Mufrad Imaam Al-Bukhaaree (no.4) brings the narration of Ibn Abbaas that a man came to him and said to him: ?I was engaged to a woman and she refused to marry me, so another man proposed to her, and she wanted to marry him, so I became extremly jealous and killed her. Is there any repentance for me?? He said: ?Is your mother alive?? He answered: ?No.? He said: ?Repent to Allah, and draw close to Him as much as possible.? Ataa ibn Yasaar said: ?I went and asked Ibn Abbaas: ?Why did you ask was his mother alive?? He answered: ?Indeed I do not know an act that brings one closer to Allah then righteousness to ones mother.?

https://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=11&Topic=3256

Brother, fear Allaah and stop speaking in Allaah's religion without knowledge. It wouldve been better to say Allaah's knows best, when you did not know.

irumole1975

The correct thing - Insha Allaah as mentioned by scholars of Islam, the likes of Ibn Baaz - is youll still return the money, and if you dont know them due to their number, then you can use the money as sadaqah for them. And if you tried your best to pay and couldnt finish paying until death visits you, then hopefully Allaah will pay it up for you on the day of judgement. Because there are statements from the Messenger of Allaah that point to this.

And Allaah knows best