₦airaland Forum

EgunMogaji:
The building industry needs to come up with a pricing structure.

This will help greatly.

What I believe will be more helpful is an enforcement of practical licensing and labour standards ( the use of certifed artisans or labourers only) even Baba kasali can simply get the proper training and be certifed.
The availability of better hands in the industry will minimize the use of fake materials . It also makes it easier for a consumer to compare labour costs as your are sure all or most are certifed to give a decent level of output, hence unlikely to worry about comparing the labour cost of a cut and nail artisan to that of a licensed or certified technician.

EgunMogaji:
Bros, please, Nigeria is very expensive. For quality level of material and labor.

Oh Nooooo, you didn't just say this Oga Eguns...... Say What? ? ? ? !!!!

Except for items manufactured in the US or North America, you'll be suprised if you do a direct product to product price comparison

skimanski:
Bros Thank you for the bolded. I have been Singing that Tone all my Career Life. I know its difficult, but we should learn the habit of Holding that Divide between what we want to hear and what we need to hear .

@ bolded, you couldn’t have said it any better my brother.
I have never been one to be afraid of going by the road less travelled, regardless of whether it makes me or my opinion unpopular. In the long run it will come to be valued.
We complain about the absence of true professionals and the dwindling quality of work in the industry yet embrace mediocrity.
The truth is we cannot all operate at the same level, but there are minimum standards everywhere. Here in Nigeria that minimum standard is continuously declining.

twinskenny:
the quote for the electrical is perfect sir.. those fittings and cable prices are okay..

Please Don’t describe this as perfect.

Even a novice should spot the irregularities with just a skim.

How in God’s green earth can he run twelve 13 amps single sockets, five 13a double sockets, five 15amps sockets, and one cooker control unit (23 power points !!) in four or more different locations, with just two coils of 2.5mm and one coil of 1 mm green !

If 16mm copper sells @ N78,000-N82,000 for a coil of 100 metres , how can he buy per metre or yard at N500

Even the number of coils of 1mm is very unrealistic for thirty lighting points!

The problem with playing to the gallery is it can be very misleading to a novice client, and can embolden him in a mistake.

If the guy in question is made to see the above quote as a benchmark for what is fair, it becomes a problem. Because when a better technician who intends to do a better job gives a standard quote, it’ll appear inflated or excessive since he already considers this a “perfect” Bill of Material. And will be looking for something within the region

signature2012:
Hello gurus in the house.kindly help me go through this quotation,is for a friend here in US.He feels the electrician who is also same as the plumber wants to cheat him.
The building is 3 bedroom ,3 bathroom and 1 living room.

Cc twinskenny
EgunMogaji
Timtol
Mufutau55
Daboomb
Oyb
InvertedHammer and others who have knowledge about this,thanks.

Cheat Him ??
How much does your friend consider a fair cost for running the whole electrical for a three bedroom, all rooms en suite flat?


Don't be deceived, the quote and possibly the "electrician" fall short by a long mile.

Get a “REAL” professional or a seasoned technician who knows what he’s doing. Not people who tell you what you want to hear, or just give you a quote you feel is gentle on your pocket. That choice can cost you greatly in the future. If you are confident in the skill of this person, Negotiate a fair labour price and request a 'standard' bill of materials which you can buy to your taste, keeping in mind the need for quality. buy one item a year if that is what it takes to give you a sound job and peace of mind. There is no sense in rush if you are rushing in the wrong direction.

As a side note , It is not wise to put too much pressure on an artisan for a cheap job. They have mouths to feed and would sometimes be forced to do whatever it takes to keep the job, Often to your own detriment. So Strike a Balance with bargaining . I just hope your friend is not the one unknowingly forcing the electrician to give him unrealistic quantities and prices.

With the mention of stablok fuses I am sure the Distribution board is in place. Take a look at the board and make sure it’s a good one(VERY IMPORTANT).
By the way, D-Boards usually come complete with the fuses/breakers so I’m guessing the guy just billed 5k to make some quick cash (unless you guys elected to buy the board without the fuses at the time, which is very unlikely)
5k cannot buy you 12 pcs of any good stablok fuse.

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Daboomb:
I am trying to reconcile the two posts above.
@Oyb said the solution to the A.C fires is to use single strand/core 4mm cables, which he bought from Coleman.

oyb:
For years I had vendors on projects connecting the indoor and outdoor acs with no name cables. When we started having fires, I identified the no namecables as a possible source, identified Coleman as a manufacturer of flexible cable. We replaced all the no name flexible cables with Coleman flexible cables.

I hope this clarifies.

Exactly.

He appears to have clarified while i was composing a reply

Daboomb:
I am trying to reconcile the two posts above.
@Oyb said the solution to the A.C fires is to use single strand/core 4mm cables, which he bought from Coleman.
@Alcopacetic said Coleman has stooped selling such single strand/core 4mm cables since late 2016 (almost one year ago).

Questions:
1. Is the above claim by @oyb true, in your own understanding?
2. Since Coleman does not sell single stran/core 4mm cables anymore, does that means that you also only sell stranded 4mm to your customers?
3. If that is also true, do you consider the safety implications of such sale if used for A.C install, going by the claims made by @oyb?

You misunderstood his post.

The solution to thier fires was in the choice of COLEMAN over the substandard chinese option, ...not in the choice of stranded over solid or solid over flexible.

You also seem to be confusing single core with solid core(single strand as u appear to perceive it)

single core cable can be solid core, stranded core or multi-wire (flexible)

What COLEMAN stopped producing is solid single cores for 4mm and 6mm . ( They still manufacture three core solids)

The choice of solid over stranded or stranded over flexible is informed by the intended application ( where and how the cable is to be laid and sometimes the termination points) .
Given the same load, the same amount of current will be drawn through all three types, and neither is a safety hazard as long as the quality of the conductor is the same.

In some countries all thier cables whether single or multiple core , from as low as 1.5mm are multi-wire (flexible) which is typically a more advantageous but far more expensive option.

oyb:
You're going to have a bad time if you do this on 185mm sq cable

On the contrary you'll have a bad time if you don't.
You need the diameter of just one strand. The number of strands is standard across a specific size category.

If you take the diameter as a whole you'll get an inflated figure, the larger the size the higher the inaccuracy. As such an undersized cable might appear within range.

Be aware the dia of a cable is not the size, cables are sized by cross-sectional area. A 2.5 single core cable has a cross sectional area of 2.5mmsq not a dia of 2.5mm.

armed with the dia, you can calculate the cross sectional area (for solids) or cross reference against a chart (for stranded)

twinskenny:
Remembered that early this year or so there are some 4mm a client asked me to pick from you they are solid not stranded?

I don't think so Sir,
The last solids i recall seeing are as far back as late 2016

twinskenny:
The way the spoke oga they don't trust any distributor anymore... .

Am going back there this morning with the distributor will let the house know how they will tackle each other....

Lol, ok o. If you say so @ bolded.

Do keep us posted.

oyb:
also, you measure the diameter of the entire core, not single strands

This is incorrect.

stranded cables are not measured or sized as a single core. AS That can vary widely depending on how tightly or loosely wound the strands are.
the nominal diameter of each strand and number of strands is determinant of the size.

For instance a standard 4mmsq single core stranded cable will have 7 strands of approx 0.85 mm dia

while a 6mmsq single core cable with 7 strands will have an applicable strand dia of 1.05mm

there are stranded wire data charts for these things.

twinskenny:
thanks chief
you know i called u sometime to confirm some figures from you..

.. the thing is coleman cannot even trust most of there distributor which still baffle me sir.. when i told them the prices i paid for those items they claimed its was actually fare prices

... now my question is why are they forcing people to buy from them direclty? i dont get it

below are the prices

1.5mm 7800 the sell 8750
2.5mm 12800 i believe they sell 14k there about
4mm 22,000 they sell like 23750
10mm 51k
16mm 78k

The bolded is quite interesting, and i beg to disagree.

Yes I recall. I also recall referring you to your dealer since you always spoke here about having a "dealer".

The Prices mean Nothing when the genuineness of the item cannot be guaranteed.

Who Exactly is this distributor you bought the fake cables from? why would they be mad if you buy from thier distributor?

COLELMAN will never pressure you to buy from them, infact they will encourage you to go through a distributor and If you have purchased any suspicious cable from a real Distributor, they will make effort to find out who the distributor is, unless of course you didnt buy from a real distributor or If the case was not referred to management.

twinskenny:
and by them checking on the signature on the label they knew its one of there accredited distributor, cause someone from there factory signed the label which they confirmed ...

twinskenny:
now the issue is not that the cable bought is not good but they claimed its not from there factory according to there meter reading or so to say

The two statements above are contradictory,
also saying they knew it was an accredited distributor from the label is also baffling, there's nothing elaborate about a two stroke sign when they could simply have asked you the name of the distributor.

twinskenny:
I am actually used to the solid 4mm not the strands type..

they claimed they stop producting that some two years back.. i was surprised.

It is not just a claim, COLEMAN stopped the production of solid 4mm and 6mm cables mid to late 2015. by the end of that year most of the old production had been mopped up. We were supplied stranded only, throughout 2016. So unless a seller is claiming to somehow have an over 2 years old stock which is next to impossible, its a FAKE. If you've been buying solids, you know what it is.

twinskenny:
I have to do a through test on the cable bought which has already been installed to be sure we are on a safer side.

Unless you intend to perform some type of laboratory test, I dont think there's much you can do under the circumstance.

twinskenny:
another thign is they are angry because the client requested a quote from them some few months back and he refused to buy directly from them..


something is not right here.. you have a distributor with some price leverage yet u will sell directly to client at higher price from your office..

Because there is a certain thing called a Distribution Chain in every industry my brother.

If an individual or organisation makes the effort to fulfill the below requirements , after going into contractual agreement with you, you cannot in turn sabotage his/its interests.

It would be nice if you told us where you or your client bought these cables from though. That's part of the problem with bargain hunting

..

W/Brackets

Lol, it is interesting that this subject has resurfaced.
I made the below posts exactly three months ago Today.
They seemed like mere rhetorics at the time. But now I'm guessing different.

allCopacetic:
Lol, @ bolded . A more appropriate term would be "Dubious Importers"

I'm an "Ibo guy" too. But it goes without saying, the standard of merchandise I put out.

80% of other key distributors for local brands​ are also Ibo by the way.

People just need to source wisely and ascertain the genuity of their source. Not everybody with a shop full of cables is an "Appointed Distributor" .
Buying from an "appointed" distributor might also not give you 100% immunity, but it is your surest bet in an open market.

allCopacetic:
Just like there is no guarantee that every acclaimed Man of God is righteous.
There will be a handful of distributors that will play on both teams, especially if your "Aroro" is too much or your pricing is unrealistic.
Rather than loose the business, they might sell you clones, because they figure that's what you're gonna end up buying at that price anyways. especially where very large volumes are concerned.

There is a saying .."Frog wey never enter hot water, no go know say na two types of water dey.

I often keep quiet when i see folks brandishing prices from "dealers" or chasing bargains , sometimes with insignificant differences ...at the expense of quality assurance .

It is not sensible to buy without a reasonable amount of cost consideration and bargaining... I'm a consumer too, and i speak from that perspective aswell.
But in the same vein First and foremost, and above all else, Ascertain and prioritize the integrity of the Merchandise, AND!!! the Seller, before you even factor or pay any attention to price. Because no matter how cheap or expensive the merchandise is, if there is a problem with the aforementioned two, then you're at a Loss either way.
Again this doesn't just apply to Cables, it applies to alot of things. two identical looking items can be poles apart in value and quality. The question is can you tell the difference.

Like I am wont to Say.... We have a very unique market and as such should apply a unique approach to buying. There are a handful of honest sellers out there, but thier prices are hardly every the cheapest.

Sometimes, When you talk about things you see and experience on a DAILY basis, somebody who shops two , three times a year can come and define what is and isn't. But then, what do I know

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