₦airaland Forum

@missgalaxy,

You can still get a job with an NGO or the UN as a Doctor, especially if you have some sort of public health experience.

Be checking the following link: http://unjobs.org/organizations/who

There are some occasional offers in Nigeria as well from some of the International NGO's based there.

All the best

Corruption is not a mental health problem. Asking for Psychiatric tests for Political Aspirants is totally ignorant and a lame excuse for incompetence.

You can find all the information you want about residency in Canada and the releavnt contacs by following this link http://www.careertips.com/Canada_f_univ_med_foreigngrads.htm

You can also follow the link provided by Dis Guy from the careers section (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-260875.160.html), where we have tried to discuss the prospects for Doctors outside of Nigeria.You may find some of the answers hidden somewhere between the page!

All the best

dr I:
Thanks beneli.quite on point.we need the likes of you to become the minister of health,or at least special adviser on health.Maybe Nigeria's health system would wear a new look.

You're whispering dangerous thoughts into my head, Dr I. Dangerous, yet somewhat ponderable thoughts!
Much as i'll pretend to be impervious to your whispers, i haven't quite excluded them as part of my ten year development plans!

dr I:
Your choice of specialty could even contribute to bring sanity in such an insane system.

Yeah right!

Kobojunkie:
( Beats me why a nation would, knowing it is not the only black nation in the region, would decide to call itself “Black Nation”).

There are a lot of countries in Southern Africa yet there's still a Country there that has dared to commandeer that name for itself! So, my good man Kobo, your arguement leaves a lot of room for arguement!

I am not taking sides or anything, but in those days, the whole concept of nationhood, national boundaries etc was totally different from what it has evolved into today. Let's not forget that nationhood and the whole race palaver is a socio-political creation and is as fliud as the water in my cup! So given that at different times in history we have been called black by all sorts of people; Sudan (black people by the Arabs), Ethiopia (people of burnt appearance by the Greeks) etc? who is to say that 'Kemet' (the Egyptian for the Spanish 'Negro') or whatever was the politically correct term for 'black people' in those days, did not encompass the whole of what was later to become Africa?

Who is to say that in those days, given that being black was not necessarily as leprous as it has become today, the proud black Egyptians did not decide to commandeer the label 'Kemet' for themselves as a badge of honour and a testament to their power, even if there where other primitive 'black' tribes peering at them from the jungles beyond the southern borders of the Nile, waiting to be sold into slavery ehn?

We don't know, do we?

phantom:
@ben, its a medical salary scale, where we dont have to fight for every pay rise.it comes automatically.it was started in '91 at the height of the brain drain and abrogated in '98.if we had followed through,a consultant should be at the same level as a chief judge earning about 1.5 mill a month,

That sort of pay is very reasonable and should attract a lot of folks home once they start to implement it!

But honestly though, the government should not stop there. The problem with the Health sector is not just about the salaries. As has been echoed by a lot of people here, there needs to be a complete overhaul of the health sector. I am bold to say that we dont have a health system and have on many occasions sited our lack of a clear pathway of referal from primary care to secondary and tertiary care as one clear example. Perhaps those working in Nigeria might shed some more light on this but from where i am sitting, there's no clear demarcation between any of the levels of health service delivery in Nigeria!

Another problem, methinks, is the absence of any clear standards for health care delivery. Each health provider (private hospitals, general hospitals, teaching hospitals etc) seem to have their own policies regarding what treatment, investigations etc to prescribe. There should be evidence based guidelines accessible to the practitioner from the remotest villages to the most functional and equipped hospitals in Naija. Where there are no clear standards, there's nothing to regulate and nothing to aspire to. In the UK this concept is seen in terms of Clinical Governance, something that is fundamental to uniform and evidence-based development in the Health sector. Becoming competent in some of the tools of clinical governance, such as Clinical Audits, is an essential requirement for trainees in the UK.
See this link for more on Clinical Governance http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publichealth/Patientsafety/Clinicalgovernance/DH_114

The government should set up a separate body that is responsible for Clinical Governance and Excellence (along the lines of NICE in the UK http://www.nice.org.uk/), which would in addition to setting the guidelines and promoting good health, also be tasked with the role of ensuring that ALL health providers from the community level up to the teaching hospitals aim towards complying with these standards. 

There should be better regulation of the HMO's. Health Insurance is the future, if we are serious about universal access to health care. The government must be clear about the exact role of the private sector in Health service provision. The regulatory body must ensure that the private hospitals and HMO's are able to perform the role they are set up to perform. If they can't then they should either close down or 'consolidate'.

If the government stops at just increasing the salaries of Doctors, without putting in place the proper structures (not the 5-star hospitals and other such poorly thought through projects), then absolutely nothing will change for the service users and our health care will continue to be a joke!

AjanleKoko:
I hope you guys pardon me for posting here, cos I'm no doctor!

Thanks for your contribution. I am sure none of us here have any reservations about you, or anybody else who is not a Doctor, posting here. We are all joint stakeholders in this Naija (lack of) health thing!

@Phantom,
What's this MSS thing that the government has finally signed all about?

Depression, when its mild (i.e. overwhelming sense of sadness, that leaves you feeling sorry for yourself, with no hope for the future etc) can respond to 'talking therapy'. Something as simple as letting off steam in front of your pastor, spouse or close confidant may bring a bit of relief. Ideally, you should have a trained professional. If you can't afford a Psychiatrist, then a psychologist who is trained in Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT) for Depression, would do. Not all psychologists are trained to help people suffering from depression.

When the Depression becomes of moderate intensity (i.e. affects your day to day functioning, with fleeting thoughts of suicide) or severe (when you can't function at all and start hearing derogatory voices, telling you that you are useless, or when you have become paralysed by overwhelming guilt of something you did or did not do and start to believe that friends, family or even neighbours are plotting against you), then the 'talking therapy' or the generic psychologist is useless. This is because, in moderate to severe depression you need a psychiatrist, who will most likely start you on appropriate medication.

You should be able to access a psychiatrist via your nearest teaching hospital.

We used to have a resident 'shrink' on nairaland. Follow this link https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-244818.0.html

The Nigerian hospitals and the services they provide is a reflection of the systemic failure in all sectors of the Nigerian service industry.

Where there is no system in place, then anything goes. In countries where the health sector is flourishing, you would find that other systems also work (transport, power, security, education  etc). So those who prefer to single out the Doctors for ridicule, are just poorly informed people gropping for others to blame other than the true culprits. You see, to blame is really ourselves for not holding those that were supposed to put the systems in place, accountable for their gross incompetence and negligence. 

Nigerian Doctors are ordinary Nigerian citizens who have been called out to perform miracles within the boundaries and limitations of the Nigerian society. They are called to make state-of-the art diagnoses with no equipments; to peform state-of-the art operations with inadequate training. Nigerian Doctors are being called to be perfect, blameless, altruistic and well mannered on empty stomachs, while trying to survive a society that hardly respects or understand the challenges and the burdens that are thrust upon them.  

So, those that are so eager to call the Nigerian Doctor incompetent, heartless and the so many other uncomplimentary names, should pause first and take a long look at themselves in the mirror. Because the person you are calling names, is really yourself, for not doing anything about our collective shame.

zerocool:
@beneli; entry level salary is about N150k - N170k per month. But with an MBA from a top notch grad school, you should earn about N250k pm + juicy allowances. Why did you ask?

I asked purely out of interest. For comparisons sake really.

I know that here in the UK, only bankers working in the so called 'square mile' (i.e. the city centre), who get immoral end of year bonuses sometimes running into 6 or 7 figures, earn more than Doctors. Otherwise the corporate world is not all that.

I suppose that the 'N250k pm + juicy allowances' would be considered attractive in Naija, if that's what you'd earn after bagging an MBA. So it may be a reasonable option after all for someone whose passion for the profession has gradually dwindled.


Good luck though, in whatever you finally decide to do.

@Zerocool,
Out of interest, what do people working in banks earn in Nigeria?

Interesting comments from a lot of people, ranging from the obviously informed to the outright ridiculous!

Sleepwalking is one of those sleep disorders (parasomnias) that are supposed to be more common in children and adolescents. The younger people usually grow out of them without a lot of intervention other than informed reassurance. Its been associated with things such as the use of some types of medication, sleep deprivation, stress, head injuries etc. There may not be any clear precipitant or associated condition.

To cut a long story short, what happens in sleep walking is that the normal physiological sleep architecture and associated body response is disturbed and would need correcting.

The thinking is that once the sleep walking has persisted into adulthood there may be need for pharmacological intervention (i.e. medication), after the individual has been thoroughly investigated to rule out other conditions that may present in a similar way. Epilepsy for instance can present with nocturnal 'seizures' that leaves the person behaving in the manners described.

Once its established that it is not associated with any other condition and it is not a variant of epilepsy, then medication that normalises sleep can be prescribed. You should consider seeing your Doctor for the appropriate medication. A Psychiatrist or a Neurologist would be most advised.

Exorcism, doesn't have a role here!

@Moji8888

To practice in Canada you will need to pass their medical licensing exams, equivalent to the PLAB and USMLE. I have been told that the exam is slightly easier than the USMLE, however the problem is what will happen after you've passed the exams! It's a lot more difficult to enter the system than, say the US. Even if you've passed the exams.

Here is a link to all the information you need to work in Canada as a foriegn trained Doctor, with the relevant contacts http://www.careertips.com/Canada_f_univ_med_foreigngrads.htm

With regards to doing the MpH in Harvard, you may need to check on their website yourself. Good luck!

@Zerocool,
What you asked in your 'first post above' may be better answered by somebody who already works in the 'Corporate World'. So you may get a better response if you post that question again on the bankers, and other relevant, forums. It may also be relevant to find somebody who knows somebody working in the career pathway you're interested in, and see what advise they'd give to you.

It shouldn't be a problem to switch careers, though. People who studied religious studies and that sort of thing have been able to enter the corporate world, so i see no reason why somebody with a bankground in medicine would fare any worse.

@zerocool,
Are those figures supposed to be with or without oncalls? They're still appalling, any which way!

deleted-no longer relevant

I have posted the same post 4 times and it's refusing to reflect here!

The post on CV etc's is refusing to open! Moderator help!!

I have had to post the unedited version twice. See below.

Ok, let's get this CV thing out of the way.

I will start with a little anecdote. After i passed my PLAB i wanted to work in London, so i had to try to get my 'clinical attachment' done in a Hospital in London. In those days it was the fad for hospitals to offer positions to Overseas Doctors (OD) to shadow trainees for a period of time, during which the OD would hamiliarise him/her self with the expected level of skills required for junior Doctors in the specialty they are interested in. Someone told me of a Nigerian locum consultant working in the Hospital that i was interested in and after i met him, he asked me to bring a copy of my CV for him to look at.

When i did produce my CV for him to peruse, he dismissed it as essentially 'rubbish'! He was a lot more diplomatic to actually use the word 'rubbish', but that was implied!.

What was wrong with my CV that it was considered rubbish, you may ask?

My CV was so bland that i can't even remember what it had written on it! The CV should not be so 'forgetful'. It's a marketing tool at the end of the day, so it's important to market yourself for the job through it. However some of the things i took away from his perusal are the following:

1. The first thing that i should have thought of (silly me) was that i should have tailored my CV to suit the post i was looking for!
It's easy for somebody writing a CV to get carried away with the 'impressive' skills that they think they have. The question is however 'are your skills relevant to the job you are looking for?'. There is no point writing about how many hysterectomies or emergency Caesarean sections you've done, if you're applying for a job in Psychiatry!

2. We shouldn't save the best for (the) last page! Here is one place where the best you have to offer should feature on the first page. if possible. Recruiters hardly have time to go through the voluminoius CV's stacked on their desks. Most just look at the first page and make their decision based on that alone! Usually those tasked with selecting CV's for interviews are not that skilled professionally. They are usually given a list of tick-box items to use for the selections. And if some of those things are not reflected on the first page, then your CV is dumped with the loser's pile. In the bin!

3. That brings me to the issue of how big (how many pages) a CV should be. There are no hard and fast rules. Most people don't have time to look at more than 4 A4 pages. And that's if your CV is impressive and wasn't dumped in the bin at the initial selection stage! I usually keep mine at about 4 pages at the moment by constantly editing out unecessary 'skills' as i become increasingly more specialised.

Usually the first page of my CV contains my biodata (name, sex, date of birth, immigration status and that sort of thing), my (relevant) qualifications, a summary of relevant jobs that i have done and for how long and a summary of other relevant skills that i may have. Note my use of the adjective 'relevant'. The job you are applying for determines which things you incude.

The next pages i would use to elaborates on the skills i have. Usually i would be emphasising those ones that are relevant to the job in question. After that, i would be hinting at other skills and experiences, which i have acquired. Here there's usually a lot of interest in your involvement in Research and Clinical Audits, publications, presentations at conferences, administrative and managerial skills, Teaching experience.

If you do get shortlisted and have been invited for an interview, you should be ready to defend your CV!

First though you should attend an interview looking like a professional. For Doctors a good suit, tie and an overall good grooming always works. There's a saying that your fate at any interview is usually decided within the first 5 minutes! So don't forget to brush your teeth! And don't go in smelling of sweat. A good deodarant is a good idea! First impression as they say, is usually the most lasting!

Some interviewers would start by asking you to take them through interesting things in your CV that you think are relevant to the post you have applied for! Woe betide you if you didn't read your own CV! Some people forget what they've got in the CV's. I no lie!

The question about your suitability can be phrased differently. They may ask you to say the things about you that makes you most suitable for the job you have applied for.

Then there could be questions about your personality. What are your strengths and weaknesses is one way of asking the question. Another is for you to talk about an experience that has affected you most in life. It could be a general question or it could be specific to your clinical experiences. Some may ask you to talk about a clinical mistake you've made that you have learnt from etc.

Then there may be specific questions relating to the job. You may be given a clinical scenario and asked how you would deal with it. Or you could be asked about any significant changes in the speciality you are interested in over the last few years. Or you could b asked to talk about a relevant scientific journal that you've read recently that you think is interesting.

The thing about getting through interviews is that you should try to remain confident. I don't mean being cocky and all that. Just confident and courteous. If you are unable to answer any question, you should find a nice way to say so. Like 'that's a rather difficult question, which i am not quite sure how to answer'. Or something less verbose.

Here is a link that you may find useful http://www.tfpl.com/recruitment/candidates/cvinterviews.cfm

I hope that's been helpful.

@Dr I,
I will still find time to discuss the CV thing and how to prepare for Medical interviews. But let me answer the questions that are more straight forward.

dr I:
pls what is the difference between a specialist physician, a general practitioner and a family physician as seen in the Canadian skilled occupation list?

A specialist Physician is a Physician who is specialised in something. e.g. a Cardiologist, a Gastroenterologist and yes, a Psychiatrist!

A General Practitioner is the same thing as a Family Physician. Some call them Primary Care Physicians because they are the first port of call for people who have health problems. If the problems require more specialised input, the GP or Family Physician refer them on to the relevant specialists in secondary or tertiary care. After medical school, a Doctor still needs to train to become a General Practioner or Family Physician. In the UK, US and in Canada it's at least 3 more years of training!

dr I:
Pls could you give me an idea of how the health insurance thing works in the civilised societies?also cld it work properly here? the NHIS is a total disaster.from what i know at the hospital i work for,they are given the cheapest drugs,you can imagine they are still given CQ at this day and age.Artesunate is completely out of the question for them,meanwhile thats the who recommended drug.

In the UK, Health is funded through the taxes that we pay. So you can see it as a form of public health insurance. Everybody, who is legal, has access to healthcare because of the taxes paid by the working population. The healthy and rich therefore subsidise the vulnerable and poor. In the US, i understand that it's quite different. Though i have an idea of how their system works, I would prefer that somebody who actually works there came in and gave us the details.

The problem with the NHIS in Nigeria, as i have stated in so many words, is that there is no proper regulation and safeguards in place for it to do what it was supposed to do. The Ministry of Health should be setting up a regulatory body that sets standards and ensures that they are kept. 

Hand in hand with the development of the NHIS should also be the development of a proper channel for unsatisfied service-users to sue their service providers! This is the practice in the US and is currently evolving in the UK. The good thing about it, is that it actually keeps the service-providers conscious of the promises they make to their customers. This would also introduce the concept of indemnity for Doctors into the system, thereby attracting the development of medical defence organisations, medico-legal services etc. This would also push for Doctors to want to be abreast of the recent developments in clinical practice as you wouldn't want any lawyer questioning you about the evidence you have for a medication or investigation you ordered!

My conviction is that the NHIS is a veritable tool for our health care delivery system to evolve. But the Ministry of Health, HMO's and other service-providers, and all the other stake-holders MUST come together to discuss the strategies and opportunities that it offers and then go ahead to make it work.

dr I:
i cant think of coming to the uk because ive heard so many scary things of getting there and being stuck,moreover i have friends that have been there for years now and have passed all their exams and yet cant get a placement for their residency.so theyve been doing locum jobs which they say pays ok.however i still feel its better than nigeria where one neither sees the money nor the job satisfaction.

Getting a 'placement for residency' in the UK, can be a very difficult task if you want to do things like Surgery, as i have stated before. However, it is still done. The problem a lot of us Doctors from Nigeria have had include the following:

1. We don't have the experience of writing good CV's, so we don't even get shortlisted for the jobs in the first place.
2. We have poor interview skills, due to inadequate practice, poor proficiency in communication, inadequate experience to draw from etc.

The locums pay reasonably well. At Trust grade level (see my response to bongabiz), you can ask for £25-40 per hour, depending on whether you've been employed directly by the hospital or by locum agencies as a limited company (preferable) versus being employed as an individual (where you pay up to 40% tax). Staff Grade can ask for £40-60 per hour. All that is before tax, of course, but the money is still very reasonable.

Those who are not able to get into training use the opportunity from their earnings to pay and prepare for the USMLE. Others save money to do Masters in other things and target jobs with the Voluntary Sector or just set up business in Nigeria.

I will try to find the time to write about preparing your CV's and how to prepare for interviews. I can't promise exactly how soon that will be though.

Dr I,
Why not ask your friend how s/he became involved with the Cochraine thing you mentioned?

One way to put a foot in the door of going for International seminars, workshops, courses etc is to find health-related NGO's in Nigeria to start volunteering with. They usually have a lot of information. Volunteering for Charity Organisations is a big deal in acquiring skills. At one time, the Voluntary Sector Organisations (NGO's) used to meet at the British Council office in Lagos once a month under the umbrella of HURINET. HURINET, stands for Human Rights Information Network. You can find out if they still meet or what they have now metamorphosed into.

The voluntary sector has a lot of very useful information on scholarships, international seminars and workshops etc. The usefulness of these would be to acquire some relevant competencies, not to use the opportunity of going on a seminar abroad to stay back. If you did that, you'll get stuck. Try exploring what the Voluntary sector (Nigerian and foriegn) have to offer that is relevant to your ambitions.

@dr I,
I am actually not the moderator here, but i appreciate your gestures in coming to my 'defence'. I only indulged the gentleman in question to keep this forum going. Usually i don't have time for time wasters.

You have raised a lot of issues and i must confess that i don't really know where to start to offer advise. However it is clear that your approach is right. You get up and try to change things for yourself.

For information on scholarships to do MpH and other health related postgraduate course in the UK, you can go to the British Council and ask. I know that there's the British Chevening Scholarship available but it's very competitive. Some other embassies offer scholarships like the Netherlands etc, so you can start calling around and find out what is available.

If you can get to Grenada on the right visa that would be good, if the intention is to be able to save to do the USMLE and progress in your career. If you can't get to any of those places, you can still try to pass your primaries here and be moving forward, career wise while making alternative plans. You never know what might happen.

You can be occasionally checking this site http://unjobs.org/themes/public-health for relevant jobs and see what their person specifications are. With that in mind, you can build your CV to fit the kind of relevant jobs that are on offer.

Here's some other useful links for working in Australia and New Zealand, which i had posted before.

http://www.imrmedical.com/australiasalaries.htm
http://www.imrmedical.com/NZsalaries.htm

After my first 'missionary' journey to the Gambia, which was not well planned, it took me about 6 years to get my acts together and to proceed in a more organised way to actualising my dreams. I have a friend currently doing his residency in Boston, who it's taken about 10 years. He started his residency in Nigeria, managed to eventually get a chance to go for his MpH in Harvard before starting his residency this year!

Some might not understand the restlessness that propels us. But if you've got it, believe me, you won't be pacified until you are where you need to be.

God speed.

FowardEast:
Can you suggest something?

You got me there, my sister! I can't think of anything to suggest to you that would make you change your world view. So go on believing what you want to believe.

For peace sake, mikkyfara, look at my profile before you conclude where i am at and whether i am 'hungry' or not!

The fact remains that you've very little to offer and it appears that you're getting carried away by your being 'there anyway'. There are procedures for immigrating properly. If you don't follow them you can get stuck wherever you go and end up looking for people to defraud in order to 'keep face'. Stick with your 'nursing' studies, my friend otherwise you won't be employable. The standars are very high in Canada and people who use phrases like 'Mr look warm' as you did a few posts earlier, certainly have a lot more work to do in order to remain competitive out there.

By the way you probably didn't notice that this forum is for Doctors and not for 'nursing' students, so it appears you're out of your depths here and have apparently lost your way.

Anyways, all the best in your nursing career and try to stay out of fraud. Crime doesn't pay!

PS: I wonder why the evidence from all the posts you've made so far on NL seem to point towards the fact that you are a spammer. I really wonder.

@mikkyfara,
I would advise that you focus on your studies for now. YOU cannot help anybody to get a job in Canada.

Canada is not some developing country where people get jobs based on who they know. Well not always, anyway.

There is a point based system that health professionals can use to get into Canada (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/index.asp), following which, if they are succesful, they can start applying for jobs. Doctors would need to pass the Canadian Medical exams BEFORE they can work there as professionals. But even passing the exams is not a guarantee as the Canadian Health system is very protective of their own and hardly accepts foriegners. You would know that if you're in Canada.

If you really want to be of help to anybody, why not give the information that you have here. If you are not a spammer or a fraudster then forgive me for taking you to be one, given that people who leave email contacts, without giving any information usually have quite a lot to hide.

FowardEast:
I mean the people who left on those ships, especially AA's, were cursed by the most high.

I am afraid, my sister, that you have quite a lot of reading and research to catch up on. The line of thinking that you still indulge in, is now so very very obsolete. The Hamitic theory and the rest of that crap was the Europeans attempt to justify their own savagery!

@mikkyfara,
This is a serious forum and not for spammers and those looking for uninformed people to defraud.

@ bongabiz

There's General Practice, which takes 3 years in all for training. It's becoming increasingly fashionable, so much more competitive. However, a lot of overseas Doctors are still able to get in.

There's also A&E medicine. Unfortunately, there's very little progression here as you'll probably end up just doing middle grade locums.
You will however get enough 'training' to do professional exams, like the MRCP etc, but not enough to end up as a Consultant.

Psychitary is comparatively easy to get in but becomes increasingly competitive to progress into higher specialist training after your CT3.

What a lot of people are considering is an alternative route to becoming a Consultant after they've secured their Membership with the Royal Colleges. This is the so called Article 14 route where you have to arrange for your own training and acquire the relevant skills and 'competencies' outside of a formal training arrangement, which you would then present to the Postgraduate Medical Education Training Board (PMETB) for consideration.

I don't know how this is working out in the other specialties but in Psychiatry there seems to be a lot of opportunties of getting the Certificate of Completeion of Specialist Training (CCST) via Article 14, as opposed to the CCT (Certificate of Completeion of Training) via the normal training route, which both allows you to get Consultant posts.

I hope this helps.