British India had a majority muslim area (west) and a majority hindu area (east). British Palestine has both Jews and Arabs living side by side in most of the areas. Also, mind you, everybody in Palestine were Arabs be it jews or muslims. The so called Ashkenazi Jews from Europe are Europeans and they were the ones that brought Zionism. Let me ask you a question.
1. Without the immigration of Jews from Europe, would there have been a clamour for a Jewish state?
2. Where did zionism begin? Was it in Europe or Palestine?
Why is it that it was the European Jews who had no land originally in Palestine that were fighting for the separation of the land? Most of the early leaders of Israel were European immigrants.
obedience4: Live peaceful with the Arabs?? Was there ever peaceful co-habitation with the Jews and Arabs??young man go and read your history books. Go and read about the early hostilities between the Jews and the Arabs, The fued between the jews and Arabs is as old as time itself. There wasn't a Jewish state when a civil war broke out between jews and Arabs in British controlled Palestine.
There is no chance of a Jewish Arab peaceful co-habitation, Why was British India shared into two india and Pakistan?? why not allow the Hindus and moslems live together?? Both are two distinct sovereign states yet are fighting wars till tomorrow.
Gold Meir before the Jewish state creation would certainly carry a Palestine passport. which passport would you expect she would carry?? Palestine as a British control territory comprises of both Arab and Jewish people. before the creation of the state of Israel there were Jewish Palestine people Gold Meir inclusive. The British government relinquishes its authority over Palestine which gave birth to the Jewish state being created. Thus she became an Israeli citizen. will a Muslim man still be carrying the passport of British controlled India after the creation of Pakistan??[/I]
[i]Jewish people will only be free and safe within a Jewish sovereign state.
The current Yorubaland is contiguously dominated by Yorubas and no other ethnic group so your analogy doesn't hold water. It was not the Palestinians that expelled the ancient Hebrews. Meanwhile, not all the so called European Jews even have genetic link to the ancient Hebrews. There ancestors were Europeans who got converted to the Jewish ways and now they want to reap where they never sowed.
Your analogy applies more to a place like the USA. Why not invite all descendants ofbthe red Indians and divide the USA and name one part Indian America.
obedience4: Let's use this analogy, if the Yoruba people are being persecuted in Brazil, and they decide to migrate to their ancestral land which is Western Nigeria, let's also imagine that over time Western Nigeria has become dominated by Fulanis, but controlled by a foreign power lets use Russia as the foreign power, note they are still ethic Nigerian Yorubas living in Western Nigeria just that they're the minority, if the influential Brazilian Yorubas starts buying lands creating a Yoruba settlement with the aim of creating a Yoruba state, if they successfully make an appeal to the UN and pressure Russia to grant then independence, they shouldn't create a Yoruba state?? Because certain "Yoruba people" have overtime become Fulanis and that western Nigeria has become dominated by Fulanis??
Some years back there was a talk of an independent Yoruba nation, "Oduduwa Nation" If it was implemented are you going to deny Brazilian Yorubas the right of being part of the newly formed nation because there fore fathers migrated??.
The Jews were the ancestral owners of the Palestine land, many migrated, but there's wasn't a time were there was no Jews in Palestine, they had lands, it was the persecution, and killings of the Jews particularly in Europe that brought the need of a Jewish state for Jews to live in.
So why can't they just buy land and live in peace along side their neighbours the Arabs. But they had to take half of the whole land and when the Arabs rebelled against this injustice they are labelled as savages.
Gold Meir and many early Zionists lived in Palestine and carried Palestinian passport. Why did they carve out a specific area and make it exclusive for only Jews?
Gbadebo19: Oga look here, while there may be no reason for them to ask that the land be divided, there is also no reason to say they cannot inhabit.. And that's exactly why the land had to be divided. And as long as they have a better claim or equal title to the existing people they meet, it is absurd to deny their claim.
The most absurd reason for dispossessing anybody of their ancestral land is 'my forefathers used to live there'.
Today, there are Yorubas in Brazil. How absorb will it sound that those descendants come back to Nigeria and ask that Southern Nigeria be splitted up so they can have land. Please help me make it make sense. There was no basis for creating a Jewish state except that the Jews are influential and can get what they want. There is no other entity that has ever done that.
Mind you, the so called Arabs of Palestine are direct descendants of ancient Hebrews too and must have converted at a time when the Islamic wave swept that part.
Let me ask you, does Netanyahu look like a middle easterners? Have you seen a white Yoruba before? Why should there be a white Jew?
They are simply colonialists with a sweet story. The real Jews are the Arab Jews who have been on that land all along. The so called European Jews claim to Jerusalem is as baseless as Kemi Badenoch's 20th descendants claim to owning land i in Oyo.
Gbadebo19: Forget all this back and forth on whether the Jewish state was necessary or not. We have thrashed that one over and over again just in case you are new to the thread. The land has always belong to Jews. I know your argument is all about "some Europeans" You are of the opinion that Palestinians are more of Jews than the Europeans. That is an argument that doesn't hold water. European Jews have been existing for over 1500 years. Stephen, the first xtian martyr was a Greek jew, Paul that wrote the majority of the new testament was a Turkish Jew. Arguments about "some Europeans" are not Jews is a very daft one. That leaves us with the legality of the so called Palestinians who claim to be Jews. Their claim of being Jewish has always been contested for thousands of years. Answer the following questions.
1. How can a people claim to be Jews and not have a capital (something we knew the israelites had which was Jerusalem and Samaria.) 2. How can they claim to be Jews and cannot state their currency. (We knew the israelites used shekels). The legality of the claim of being Jewish of the Palestinians is one that has never been settled convincingly and I repeat ,never been settled convincingly. Mere large population does not grant ownership of land to some people. Ilorin for instance till tomorrow will always belong to the Fulani even though the population is over 70% Yoruba.
Yes there are Bantus in Nigeria. There are people on the Mambilla plateu who speak the same language till this day. There was never a need to create a Jewish state.The creation of a Jewish state on one half of Palestine definitely displaced people. Remenber Jews and Arabs lived side by side on the land until the European Jews who had no land in Palestine arrived. It was a great fraud and wickedness. Every Palestinian Jew had their own land and could have easily belonged to a state of Palestine with power sharing between Jews and Palestine. Why did those wicked Jews from Europe forcefully carve out a peaceful Palestine with the help of their European friends?
Lawag3: Jews have always been in the land you can't find a single Bantu here in southern Nigeria.
There was never a period that the Jewish population became zero.
They only went from being the absolute majority to being a minority.
Jews then had the biggest diaspora in the world they still do till today.
dvkot: wow how pathetic the Russians are... They outnumbered Ukrainians in the amount of artillery used on the battlefield, FABs, Ammunition used, Number of men and to show how pathetic they are, the exchange of dead ukraine receives is higher than the Russians even the POWs.. What's worse is that despite losing more than 1million Russians is still moving forward and Ukraine moving backwards. So if the strategy works why can't Ukraine copy it or didn't they have bodies to throw?
You dey mind those nitwits? How can Russia that has twice the number of POWs as Ukraine have more casualties?
Gbadebo19: Kellogg has effectively confirmed that Russia has lost nearly 1 million people in the war against Ukraine.
In an interview, the Trump representative stated that total losses in the Russia-Ukraine war have already reached 1.2 million people, and this number exceeds U.S. losses in World War II.
According to Ukraine’s General Staff, Russia has already lost approximately 982,840 killed and wounded. Kellogg’s statement can be considered a direct confirmation of this figure at an official level from the United States. It’s worth noting that U.S. losses in World War II are officially estimated at 418,000 people.
Keep lying to yourself. We know who has been crying since.
shoodboi2: I have been here with you for so long to know you argue baselessly. Repeatedly adding “necessary” to your text and putting it in bold to make it appear as if you used it to “get an emotional response” as you claim, is not going to fly.
You made it very clear that the killing of Palestinains is necessary. You put it in bold because that is your thought. Necessary killings, you said. I will always remind you.
You continue trying to claim that it started on October 7, while you cleverly omit all the previous killings, murders, assassinations, bombings and continued terror acts and warcrimes that Israel committed against Palestinains before October 7.
Do we talk about the arbitrary arrests and prosecution of Palestinian children in Israeli prisons? Prisons where children are interrogated by adults shouting at them in Arabic, but are then made to stand trial without a lawyer or a translator in a courtroom where everyone speaks Hebrew and no one understands Arabic?
Or is it the continued destruction of Palestinian factories? Invasion of Palestinian schools, or pouring concrete into Palestinian wells, killing their farm animals, burning their farms, and stealing their houses in broad daylight?
We all saw that 2021 video (long before October 7) where Jacob, an Israeli man, stole a Palestinian house and confidently told them, “If I don’t steal your home, someone else will steal it.”
Or is it the blockade of Palestinian roads and neverending rapes of Palestinian women in the West Bank where there is no Hamas. Yet, Palestinians do not have free movement there and have to contend with gates, fences, and checkpoints everywhere. So, is Hamas also the problem in the West Bank?
Listen up, we have gone through this so many times that it has become stale. So, the only thing I will do is to respond to your fake and dishonest questions you asked to justify the Israeli genocide in Gaza.
#1.Yahya Sinwar was killed on the battlefield of Rafah. We all saw the videos. Were there any civilians there? Nope. There was none and if you want to claim there was, show us the video. The civilians had evacuated before the battle. It was just Sinwar and his chair. A brave man he was.
#2. The brothers here are Mohammed and Zakaria Sinwar. Israel claimed it killed both brothers inside a tunnel under the European hospital in Gaza.
First things first, there is no evidence that Mohammed Sinwar is dead. Even the IDF has never claimed that he died. The Israeli media only started the rumors the day after Israel bombed the European hospital in Gaza.
The hospital was built by the UN and EU. So, the bombing drew Israel the ire of the West, and the next day, Israeli media started claiming Muhammed and Zakaria Sinwar were killed under the hospital. Zakaria Sinwar was later revealed to have been bombed at a refugee camp where he was living with his family (three sons).
Zakaria was a professor and educationist and was not in any way involved with Hamas or any other resistance group in Gaza. Yet, the IDF killed him to save face and lied that he was killed in a tunnel under a hospital.
As for Mohammed Sinwar, Nethanyahu came out a week later to claim Mohammed Sinwar “may” be dead. Till now, there is no evidence that he is dead, or that he died in that hospital bombing.
#3. Nasrallah was killed in a bunker under Hezbollah’s headquarters. He was not under a residential building as you claim. The address of Hezbollah's headquarters is well-known to everyone, including the US and Israel. It was not hidden.
Mind you, Nasrallah had agreed to a ceasefire deal with Israel at the time. Lebanon's Foreign Minister had even informed the media of the ceasefire deal and said they had informed Israel.
Nasrallah and Hezbollah thought Israel would play fair, so Nasrallah relaxed his security and went on to openly hold a meeting at their headquarters only for Israel to kill him. Israel was monitoring the building and Hezbollah knew.
Israel could not destroy the bunker, so they flattened the area (Hezbollah’s HQ and the neighboring buildings). This then created a large smoke that entered into the bunker. It was this smoke that killed Nasrallah and not the bombs. On one thought, one can think that Israel deliberately flattened the area with bombs just so the smoke will get to Nasrallah (if the bombs failed), but I digress.
In all, there are many many videos of Israeli soldiers camping in people’s homes. Israeli soldiers don’t hide it. They post it on YouTube. There are also many videos of Hamas snipers and RPG operators taking out Israeli soldiers hiding inside Palestinian buildings. Even when Nethanyahu visited Gaza, he was pictured holding a meeting inside a Palestinian home.
Moderate estimates state that 245,000 residential buildings have been destroyed in Gaza. Meanwhile, Hamas has 30,000 fighters at most. So, even if we have one Hamas fighter under each house, how do you explain the destruction of the other 215,000 buildings?
And mind you, these are just residential buildings. By the time we add commercial buildings, schools, hospitals, and refugee camps, even a liar will agree that Israel’s claim of Hamas hiding under buildings doesn’t make sense.
So, instead of you trying to justify a genocide by claiming that Hamas hides under buildings, maybe you should tell Benjamin Mileikowsky to return to Poland, while the other Isrealis return to whichever European country they got their second passport.
As an endnote, I will leave you with this photo of a masked Israeli soldier pinning a small boy against a rock. The boy has a broken arm and you can see he has a cast there. You know the boy’s offence?
He was protesting against Israeli soldiers stealing their homes and giving it to Israelis. And what year do you think this was from? 2015 — 10 years ago. And it happened in the West Bank where there is NO Hamas.
Still Christian Amanpour, a celebrated CNN journalists has already exposed the treachery of the Israelis and Americans on Hezbollah. Still, this guy will continue to paint Israel as a honest entity.
The whole premise of the existence of a Jewish state was wrong from the onset, why won't the aArabs protest it.
Somebody came to your house and asked you to divide your house into 2 just because his ancestor used to live there 2 thousand years ago. When you protest, he in alliance with his powerful friends kill your children, forcefully takes the part he likes and fences you off. Then anytime you come out the enclosement to try to reclaim your land they label you terrorists.
Brother, if you are living in Southern Nigeria, chances are that you are living on a land that belonged to the Bantu tribes 1,000 years ago. The Bantus are currently in South Africa. Imagine if one day, somebody tells you that your village should be split in 2 because the Bantus are back. I hope you will gladly forfeit half of your father's land.
Obedience40: That guy doesn't know that "the Arabs were the first to reject a two state solution, instead they ganged up an attack the newly created Jewish nation.
They are now playing the victim because they lost the wars and lost territories, will the Arab world be asking for a two state solution if they had won the wars they lost?? A two state solution was possible in 1947, The U.N. General Assembly voted to divide Palestine into two states, one Jewish and one Arab. Paving way for the creation of the Palestinian state.
But guess what, because they (Arabs) thought they had the numbers and the superior military apparatus, instead of accepting the the UN offer, they refused, when the Jews finally declared independence in May 1948, Five Arab nations immediately invaded the new country seeking to destroy it.
They didn’t stop there, only to regroup in 1967, with Egypt, Syria and Jordan invading the Jewish nation in the "six days war" also the Yom Kippur of 1973 with the Egypt and Syrian forces attacking Jewish positions in the goland heights and in the sinai peninsula.
A simple aggrement in 1947 would have stopped the nesssarry bloodshed today, the dude thinks the Jewish-Arab debacle started in 2002.
What would have happened to the Jewish civilians and the Jewish state if the five Arab countries have successfully destroyed the newly created Jewish nation??.
Obedience40: That guy doesn't know that "the Arabs were the first to reject a two state solution, instead they ganged up an attack the newly created Jewish nation.
They are now playing the victim because they lost the wars and lost territories, will the Arab world be asking for a two state solution if they had won the wars they lost?? A two state solution was possible in 1947, The U.N. General Assembly voted to divide Palestine into two states, one Jewish and one Arab. Paving way for the creation of the Palestinian state.
But guess what, because they (Arabs) thought they had the numbers and the superior military apparatus, instead of accepting the the UN offer, they refused, when the Jews finally declared independence in May 1948, Five Arab nations immediately invaded the new country seeking to destroy it.
I am sure you think you are making sense with all the nonsense you have spewed up there now.
They didn’t stop there, only to regroup in 1967, with Egypt, Syria and Jordan invading the Jewish nation in the "six days war" also the Yom Kippur of 1973 with the Egypt and Syrian forces attacking Jewish positions in the goland heights and in the sinai peninsula.
A simple aggrement in 1947 would have stopped the nesssarry bloodshed today, the dude thinks the Jewish-Arab debacle started in 2002.
What would have happened to the Jewish civilians and the Jewish state if the five Arab countries have successfully destroyed the newly created Jewish nation??.
obedience4: Patriot system has a range of 160 km and Ukraine has limited systems, only 8 systems have been given to Ukraine, How do you expect 8 systems to provide adequate coverage for a country as large as Ukraine.
Also Ukraine is hitting Russia on a daily basis, Now Russia unlike Ukraine do not rely on imported air defense systems, she produces her own systems and she is a major exporter of air defense systems,So russia is supposedly self sufficient?? and should have better air protection. Yet she is getting hit on a daily basis, Moscow the government seat of Russia is getting hit by Ukraine. is Russia not protected by its overhyped S400??
Russia is hit every day but who is crying to the world? Ukraine sends drones that manage to hit one or 2 places. Russia responds with a measured attack that actually destroys military targets in Ukraine and kills people then Zelensky shouts to the world that Putin is wicked. Hahaha.
I love this. If US decides to take Greeland by force, China, Russia and others should impose sanction son them
WritterNg: ⚡China fully respects Denmark’s sovereignty over Greenland, Foreign Minister Wang Yi told his Danish counterpart, urging Denmark to reciprocate on China’s sovereignty concerns.
Wang’s comments came after Denmark hosted former Taiwan President Tsai Ing-wen.
Only less than 30 percent of the world is in NATO. What do you think the rest of the world is doing?
The world is changing gradually and countries that couldn't look US in the face decades ago can now call its bluff alongside its western stooges. Let NATO remain rooted in its ironclad ancient alliances whilst Russia, China, India forge new alliances that will determine the new world. Check out how fast economies are growing today. Russia doesn't need Europe anymore, there is a large and growing market to the East and the sanctions opened their eyes to it.
Meanwhile, Estonia has been shouting that a Russian jet violated its airspace briefly. I am wondering why NATO didn't shoot down that Russian plane.
obedience4: Funny dude, here you spinning up narratives. It seems you know more than Putin when he was threatening those baltic states and the entire Nato bloc with nukes, Stop peddling lies mate, the conclusion of the whole matter is simple, Russia can't and won't risk attacking a member of the biggest defence alliance in the world, who amongst its ranks is the biggest military in the world, the USA. Putin had many red lines that were crossed. He simply chicken out like the caitiff he is.
Russia is weakening NATO??, what kind of fuckery is this?? Russia provocations have strengthened the alliance, Russia aggression in Ukraine has more all less underpinned the US stance that European nations should be willing to spend more defence, and pull thier weight. Since the invasion of Ukraine, Nato has indeed gotten bigger with the addition of Sweden and Finland, especially Finland who share borders with Russia, thereby bringing Nato closer to Russia. NATO is deploying more troops, equipment, and plans to cite more military bases in countries like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Bulgaria, and Romania , the US now have a permanent military base in Poland, she has implemented more enhanced air patrols, also created and deployed 49 more combat brigades to deter Russian aggression in Europe, This increase brings the total number of NATO combat brigades to 131, a significant increase from the previous 82. Not only that, the war in Ukraine serves as a dress rehearsal for a potential conflict with russia in the future, Nato weapons are getting the baptism of fire in Ukraine, and Ukraine has become a testing ground for Nato weapons against Russia.
Russia is weakening the Nato alliance. What a cliche?? An alliance whose member countries just recently pledge to increase their defence, spending from 2 per cent to 5 per cent of their GPD, keep wallowing in your pool of ignorance.
Don't stop your enemies when they are making mistakes. Attacking those chihuahuas will be a costly endeavour that will distract Russia from the main goal of weakening NATO via attrition. Eastern Ukraine is already the burial ground of Western weapons, no need to extend he battlefield further except completely necessary.
BTW, NATO forces are also dying in Ukraine.
obedience4: 10 years of hearing Russia will attack those "local government countries" yet Russia hasn't done a pin.
Those Baltic states aka "local government countries" have sent weapons, funded military sales that are killing Russian soldiers till tomorrow. What has the bear done??. Article 5 won't work against Russia!! That's cute, what's stopping Putin's from triggering it??.. Putin had many red lines crossed by the US and NATO member countries, what stopped Putin from escalating??.
You are struggling with Ukraine, You wanna take on a US led NATO, tales by moonlight.
Russia doesn't need to take all of Ukraine. What they have is even enough and they are still taking more as the war drags on. Na Ukraine wan recover their land na. Russia is currently in the best position since the beginning of the war. They have 20% of Ukraine including Crimea, their economy has not collapsed due to sanctions, support of China and other big economies is growing, Kursk is 90% if not 10% liberated and Putin is still in power. The more Zelensky waits, the more Ukrainian soldiers die and the more territory Ukraine loses.
It doesn't get better than that.
Keep wailing!
Gbadebo19: If it is for casualties, everyone wants the talks to break down, so that the so called best army can spend one hundred years struggling for 19% of Ukraine. At least saner countries will have better things to do rather than worry about one nonsense chest beating teddy bear.
It seems when CNN starts to say something, everybody else begins to re-echoe it. That is what happened in the Ukraine war that made many people to start looking down on the Russian military.
DeathParade: Withstand my a$$. Almost every single Paki airbase got hit. India provided sat images as proof. Pak said they hit India at Adampur airbase. Saying they got S400 and the runway. Next day itself Modi visited Adampur airbase and debunked all Paki myths.
These GFP comparisons of who has how many tanks is just as irrelevant as who won the propaganda war. What matters is doctrine, training and execution. Equipment is only a part of the equation.
I don't need to tell who won or didn't win. The relevant authorities on both sides know exactly who won. The rest of the people can be made gullible fools, misdirected by the potential downing of a handful of fighter jets. But the authorities on both sides know how one side had total operational dominance and was actually able to hit targets with impunity.
Cherry on the top, Pak generously validated Indian weapon systems. Thereby giving an impetus to the Indian weapons industry. Now that our Armed Forces have seen Indian weapons be baptized by fire, they'll no longer be apprehensive of ordering from within India. Thanks to Pakistan.
I wish talks break down so Russia can continue to pummel the Nazi forces.
The Ukrainian war to Zelensky and his western backers is like a pretty girl you have spent too much money on and you don't want to lose even though you know she doesn't want you. You are upset about your lost investment and hoping she will drop her guards one day and open pants. So you keep spending money on her whilst telling everyone that cares to hear that she is a gold digger.
Gbadebo19: On May 11, Ukraine targeted the headquarters of the 40th Separate Guards Marine Brigade in Rylsk. According to reports, Deputy Commander Alexander Danilov is said to have died from injuries sustained during the attack.
Danilov, a veteran of Russia's operations in Syria, was involved in the 2022 invasion of Ukraine and was commanding a unit at the time.
Well, you are Indian so it makes sense to be on your country's side. I am not a supporter of either India or Pakistan and definitely hates terrorism whether committed by Moslims, Christian's or Jews.
I don't have enough information to exonerate Pakistan neither do I believe India is 100 percent truthful. There is always a certain level of propaganda in state narratives.
I do agree that the Pakistani govt has too many accusations of funding terrorists, alongside the United States.
My major point is that it will be myopic to paint this as a religious crisis just because the culprits are Moslems.
DeathParade: I have no clue what shitshow has been going on in this thread and why. Its perfectly clear that:- 1.) Terrorists targeted non-muslims in the Pahalgam attack. There is no dispute about this, every single eye witness gave the same testimony. 2.) Pakistan has been attacking India through LeT and JeM. TRF is just a mask, not some splinter group, of LeT. All of these are protected, financed and trained by the Pakistan Army and ISI. 3.) Indian Intel intercepts and sources about how Pakistan is involved in the terrorist attack in Pahalgam will be presented by India at the UN. 4.) India had allowed Pakistan to join investigations of many previous terrorist attacks on Indian soil. For example, the Pathankot airbase attack in 2016. Here it is stated on record the details on the official Indian foreign ministry website, the answer to a question asked in the Indian parliament about the same issue. Read: https://www.mea.gov.in/lok-sabha.htm?dtl/26689/QUESTION_NO614_INVESTIGATION_INTO_PATHANKOT_ATTACK
Honestly, at this point, wondering whether Pakistan is the one that carried out any terrorist attack in India is akin to questioning whether the earth is round or flat. Only two types of people engage in this kind of questioning:- 1.) Naive people who have never actually studied the Kashmir terrorism since the 1990s. 2.) Terrorist sympathizers.
If people on this thread that are raising this question belong to category 1, my answer should at least give them pause. But if they're from the category 2, then I don't plan on engaging their drivel. Terrorist sympathizers are evil.
IMEI: You're referencing a Botragelad thread as evidence, a notorious anti-islam propagandist
Despite the claim that high ranking Pakistani military officials attended Lashkar-e-taiba burial, in none of the pictures he posted were any of the officials present. Honestly I thought you were smarter than to promote obvious propaganda
I've thrown you a bone, India is the epicenter of disinformation in the entire world. If you want to double down on asserting fallacy, be my guest
Simple question, don't waste time. Is the Ukrainian government sponsoring terrorism against Russia? Yes or no.
Is the Israeli government sponsoring terrorism against Palestinians?
Has the United States ever funded and supported terrorists?
Obedience40: Simple question, So we don't waste time, Is the Pakistani Government sponsoring terrorism in India and Indian administered Kashmir. Yes or No
So because their nationality is Pakistani, they are sponsored by Pakistan? Kashmir is a predominantly Muslim society and it is natural that Kashmiris will prefer Pakistan to India. However, Kashmiris want to be sovereign.
obedience4: Dude, the bottom line still remains your beloved Resistance Front ( TRF) came out of two Islamic groups Lashkar-e-Taiba, and the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen. The splinter groups you have failed to mention..
You are clearly regurgitating the same thing the Pakistanis have been saying and trying to do, they tried to put the blame on a moderate group, a Kashmir based group The Resistance Front ( TRF), so as to limit the fall back, which later backfired as the nationality of the attackers were later determined to be Pakistani, hence rulling out The Resistance Front ( TRF) which later came out to cowardly deny responsibility blaming its on a communication breach, 😉 who does that??
The India government did their investigation and they name the culprits, which is the Lashkar-e-Taiba, stop spinning the whole issue, the Indians have done the there homework.
Everyone knows the Lashkar-e-Taiba and the Pakistan authorities are working together, hence the Pakistani ploy to distance the Lashkar-e-Taiba, from the attack..
That guy can never agree to a superior argument. He will definitely respond to you again I am 100 percent sure. He can say anything to justify his malicious assertions.
He says :
Pakistan tried to put the blame on a moderate group, a Kashmir based group The Resistance Front ( TRF), so as to limit the fall back..
He forgot that TRF itself initially took credit for the attack and TRF blamed India not Pakistan when retracting their statement.
I think he lies so much that he begins to believe his own lies.
There is a fallacy of giving everything a religious colouration. If a Christian sees danger, he will naturally say Blood of Jesus! Does anybody label him a Christain fundamentalist? But if a Moslem shouts Allahu Akbar! He is automatically labelled an Islamic fundamentalist. Even though the people in that terrorist group are Moslems and they will naturally justify their actions with the Quran just like some wicked Christians will justify their actions with the Bible, their overtly stated agenda is not religious.
'The organisation's primary stated objective is to merge the whole of Kashmir with Pakistan.'
Does the above look like a religious agenda?
I know there are truly fundamentalist groups out there who want to impose Sharia but we must separate groups with Islamic agenda from groups with political agenda. It is a dangerous mischief to not do so.
The Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) that butchered thousands in central Africa all in the name of Christ was never called a Christian terrorist group why should any group be labelled a Muslim terror group when their agenda is purely political?
The western media started this nonsense and they have been successful in making us hate all Muslims and Arabs. This is called Framing and those who do it do it for the political agenda of divide and conquer. Today if you speak against oppression and somebody find out you are a Moslem, they can easily blackmail you and label you a terrorist sympathiser.
Please I am tired of all these back and forth because you seem not to get my major arguments. Some of your assertions are just wrong deductions from factual sources. You said: LRA are not fighting in the name of the Lord, nor are they fighting or seeking to establish a Christian caliphate but that is not true. The LRA itself clearly states it operates according to the 10 commandment. So I keep wondering why that conflict is not termed a religious conflict but whenever it involves Muslims killing others, it is a religious issue. Even the RUF who cut of thousands of limbs in Sierra Leone justified their actions with Christianity. Did anyone call out those monsters as 'Christian Terrorists'?
Again I told you salafism is not mainstream Islam and just an offshoot but you and western media will choose to label every Salafist group as 'Islamic Group'. 90 percent of Moslems in the world don't even subscribe to Salafist ideology so why should they be grouped with Salafists?
Why is the same thing not applied to Christians or Jews who carry out terrorism?
Another example is the various Jewish groups in occupied Palestine killing unarmed Paleatinians and taking over their property. Nowhere has any western journalists tag them "Jewish Terrorists". One of such is the Jewish Defense League (JDL), a radical organization that preaches a violent form of anti-Arab, Jewish nationalism.
Do you now agree that the term Islamic Terrorists in most cases is just a form of framing?
Obedience40: In its publications and on various platforms, the organization has consistently articulated its primary political goals, which include the destruction of India, Hinduism, and Judaism. The organization considers jihad a religious duty for all Muslims, with the establishment of a caliphate as its central religious and political objective
Are the above 👆 statements, are they not objectives??, the groups objectives include the destruction of India. Hinduism, and the establishment of a caliphate in Kashmir, are these not objectives?? All these are justified using the Islamic religion.
Hence, the Lashkar-e-Taiba are tagged as an Islamic terrorist group..
Lord's Resistance Army was designated a terrorist group by the US and some other countries. looking at the ideology and objectives of the group, you won't find any Christianity extremism in it, They are not fighting in the name of the Lord, nor are they fighting or seeking to establish a Christian caliphate, nor forcing the Christian doctrines nor "Christianity" on anyone, the Ten Commandments they are using as a benchmark has a Commandment of "thou sha not kill" among it. There's nothing in the groups manifesto or ideology that uses "Christianity" as a focal point to commit atrocities.
The Lord's Resistance Army is a terrorist group, she was designated a terrorist group based on the atrocities she committed, including murder, abduction, mutilation, child sex slavery, there's no Christian or bible reference being used by the Lord's Resistance Army to commit these atrocities.. hence they can't be called a Christian terrorist group.
The Lashkar-e-Taiba, on the other hand, like other Islamic terrorist groups, uses the quran as a reference point to justify its atrocities. The objectives always mirror the establishment of an Islamic caliphate and the destruction of other religions. Hence, they are tagged Islamic terrorist groups. jihad, which these terrorist use as an excuse to attack people, is enshrined in the quran.
The MSN in the eastern part of Nigeria they can be tagged as a terrorist group. They are manny Christians in the east, The M23 rebels were tagged terrorist group, by the DRC government. They are majority Christians.. but you can't tag them or the MSN "Christian terrorist group", because their are no Christian extremism in their manifesto or objectives.
Ypu continue to counter your own assertions in your writings. All your references to Islamic ideology only indicates justification and not objective. You wrote it yourself:
The group justifies its ideology on verse 2:216 of the Quran
Now, the LRA of Joseph Kony justifies its objectives with the Bible. Has it ever been referred to as a 'Christian Terrorist group by western jounalists' ?
Below is how my Chat GPT describes the LRA:
"The Lord's Resistance Army (LRA), led by Joseph Kony, is a Christian extremist organization. Its ideology centers on a distorted interpretation of Christianity, including the Ten Commandments, aiming to establish a theocratic state in Uganda. This has led to the LRA's brutal practices. Kony presented himself as a spiritual leader, claiming divine authority for his actions. The LRA's ideology is not representative of mainstream Christian beliefs."
Now, why don't journalists say emphasize Islamist groups are basing their ideology on a distorted interpretation of Islam because I know several Muslims who don't subscribe to their ideology. Salafism is not mainstream Islam.
obedience4: I don't have time for a profit less back and forth.
In its publications and on various platforms, the organization has consistently articulated its primary political goals, which include the destruction of India, Hinduism, and Judaism. The organization considers jihad a religious duty for all Muslims, with the establishment of a caliphate as its central religious and political objective.
Its followers are proponents of the South Asian group Ahl-e-Hadith (AeH) Islam, which is considered Salafist. It has adopted maximalist agenda of global jihad including attacks on civilians. The group justifies its ideology on verse 2:216 of the Quran.
Fighting has been made obligatory upon you ˹believers˺, though you dislike it. Perhaps you dislike something which is good for you and like something which is bad for you. Allah knows and you do not know.
Extrapolating from this verse, the group asserts that military jihad is a religious obligation of all Muslims and defines the many circumstances under which it must be carried out. In a pamphlet entitled "Why Are We Waging Jihad?", the group states that all of India along with many other countries were once ruled by Muslims and were Muslim lands, which is their duty to take it back from the non-Muslims. It declared United States, India, and Israel as "existential enemies of Islam".LeT believes that jihad is the duty of all Muslims and must be waged until eight objectives are met: Establishing Islam as the dominant way of life in the world, forcing disbelievers to pay jizya, exacting revenge for killed Muslims, punishing enemies for violating oaths and treaties, defending all Muslim states, and recapturing occupied Muslim territory. The group construes lands once ruled by Muslims as Muslim lands and considers it as their duty to get them back. It embraces a pan-Islamist rationale for military action
I wrote before about the primary objectives, goals and ideologies of the Lashkar-e-Taiba, if the above are not indices of an Islamic extremist group to you, then its your cup of tea..
Pervez Musharraf, late longtime Pakistani dictator was a US ally and even aided them in invading Afghanistan. He was not a dictator to them whilst helping them but Mugabe was one for not supporting them. Imran Khan, a moderate, cool headed and intellectual prime minister was conspired against and jailed with the support of the US for supporting Russia.
"In this case, the U.S. desired to bring down the government of Prime Minister Imran Khan, the charismatic, talented, and hugely popular leader in Pakistan, renowned both for his world-leading cricket mastery and for his common touch with the people. His popularity, independence, and enormous talents make him a prime target of the U.S., which frets about popular leaders who don’t fall into line with U.S. policy."
Lawag3: I don't believe the US keeps Pakistan weak. Neither do I think it props up Pakistan's government.
That being the US do have a history of aiding a would be problem to be a problem to them in the future. That I fear may be a fatal flaw.
So, if the TRF later denies responsibility, how does that make it a religious attack? Also, right now there is still no proof except that India believes it is Lashkar-e-Taiba. Even the TRF accuses Indian intelligence of manipulating the narrative.
1. The Pakistani govt continues to deny links with the terrorists even if they were from Pakistan. Most of the terrorists accused of bombing on 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia, did US bomb Saudi for it?
2. Even the Lashkar-e-Taiba and affiliates, whilst predominantly Islam in the composition of its fighters, has a political agenda of an autonomous Kashmir and not exactly a religious agenda of imposing Sharia on Kashmir. This is where they may be different from ISIS or Boko haram who are seeking to impose an Islamic caliphate. They are a Sunni Muslim militant insurgent group based in Pakistan, whose primary aim is the liberation of Jammu and Kashmir from Indian control. They may justify what they do with Islam, but their main objective is political.
Again, the fact that western media allied with western intelligence continues to plant these narratives in your minds and you gobble it up like pepper soup. It is called framing. When you frame something up as a religious crisis, it is easy to whip up sentiments and make people act with emotions. Stop seeing what is not there.
Dude the Indian government said is the Lashkar-e-Taiba that carried out the attacks, the TRF that you are forcing responsibility upon has come out to deny responsibility..
I can't see anything in what you attached that indicates that the TRF denied responsibility. Below is what the New York Times wrote:
A little-known group called the Resistance Front claimed responsibility. The Indian government said that the group was a front for a broader terrorist apparatus that has operated out of Pakistan. Pakistan has rejected those claims.
It is India that is claiming that it is Lashkar-e-Taiba and another group, a claim Pakistan denies.
obedience4: Please for the utmost time, the The Resistance Front ( TRF): were not the ones responsible for the 2025 Pahalgam attacks.
I have attached evidence of the group The Resistance Front ( TRF): denying they were responsible for the attacks.
The India government has stated that the Lashkar-e-Taiba, are the ones responsible for the attacks, and they haven't come out to deny the allegations..
Someone has already explained that the group that claimed responsibility is the TRF. Even though they are an offshoot of several Islamic affiliated terror groups. Why do you expect the terror groups in Kashmir to not be Islamic when it's a majority Muslim area?
Again, why don't we call Christian groups committing crimes from Christian areas Christian Terrorists?
I already explained to you that there is a difference between a religious agenda and a political agenda. If you refuse to get that, good luck in your hypocrisy.
obedience4: The group the The Resistance Front ( TRF): came out of two different groups, it is clearly shown in the picture evidence I tender, the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen and the Lashkar-e-Taiba, note the Hizb-ul-Mujahideen also has the same ideology as the Lashkar-e-Taiba. Both are Islamic terrorist groups.
I only circled the latter because you were trying to portray the TRF as a entirely different group from the Lashkar-e-Taiba.
The Lashkar-e-Taiba, did not take responsibility for the attack, the authorities in India label them as the preperators of the act. The India response was against Lashkar-e-Taiba targets in Pakistan.
Well, it is in the interest of the US to keep Pakistan weak that way so they can stage secret ops from that country. They knew how unstable Pakistan is and continues to prop up its tyrannical govts. During the soviet invasion of Afghanistan, they used Pakistan to channel weapons to Islamic fighters, including Bin Laden who would later be called a terrorist. He was not a terrorist when he was killing their enemies.
Lawag3: I have no proof per say but I sure can bet that the US that added Pakistan to the state Sponsors of Terrorism list does. The United States' State Sponsors of Terrorism designation list describes Pakistan as a terrorist safe haven where individual terrorists and terrorist groups are able to organize, plan, raise funds, communicate, recruit, train, transit, and operate in relative security because of inadequate/supportive governance, political will, or both
You have continued the same fallacy of giving everything a religious colouration. If a Christian sees danger, he will naturally say Blood of Jesus! Does anybody label him a Christain fundamentalist? But if a Moslem shouts Allahu Akbar! He is automatically labelled an Islamic fundamentalist. Even though the people in that terrorist group are Moslems and they will naturally justify their actions with the Quran just like some wicked Christians will justify their actions with the Bible, their overtly stated agenda is not religious.
You stated it yourself:
'The organisation's primary stated objective is to merge the whole of Kashmir with Pakistan.'
Does the above look like a religious agenda?
I know there are truly fundamentalist groups out there who want to impose Sharia but we must separate groups with Islamic agenda from groups with political agenda. It is a dangerous mischief to not do so.
The Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) that butchered thousands in central Africa all in the name of Christ was never called a Christian terrorist group why should any group be labelled a Muslim terror group when their agenda is purely political?
The western media started this nonsense and they have been successful in making us hate all Muslims and Arabs. This is called Framing and those who do it do it for the political agenda of divide and conquer. Today if you speak against oppression and somebody find out you are a Moslem, they can easily blackmail you and label you a terrorist sympathiser.
obedience4: You are trying too hard to distort the truth..
The group responsible for this attacks and many more in India and India administering Kashmir is the Islamic terrorist group, the Lashkar-e-Taiba they have a clear Islamic agenda and doctrine..
he organisation's primary stated objective is to merge the whole of Kashmir with Pakistan.
Let's dice into some of Lashkar-e-Taiba objectives and goals
In its publications and on various platforms, the organization has consistently articulated its primary political goals, which include the destruction of India, Hinduism, and Judaism. The organization considers jihad a religious duty for all Muslims, with the establishment of a caliphate as its central religious and political objective.
Its followers are proponents of the South Asian group Ahl-e-Hadith (AeH) Islam, which is considered Salafist. It has adopted maximalist agenda of global jihad including attacks on civilians. The group justifies its ideology on verse 2:216 of the Quran.
Fighting has been made obligatory upon you ˹believers˺, though you dislike it. Perhaps you dislike something which is good for you and like something which is bad for you. Allah knows and you do not know.
Extrapolating from this verse, the group asserts that military jihad is a religious obligation of all Muslims and defines the many circumstances under which it must be carried out. In a pamphlet entitled "Why Are We Waging Jihad?", the group states that all of India along with many other countries were once ruled by Muslims and were Muslim lands, which is their duty to take it back from the non-Muslims. It declared United States, India, and Israel as "existential enemies of Islam".LeT believes that jihad is the duty of all Muslims and must be waged until eight objectives are met: Establishing Islam as the dominant way of life in the world, forcing disbelievers to pay jizya, exacting revenge for killed Muslims, punishing enemies for violating oaths and treaties, defending all Muslim states, and recapturing occupied Muslim territory. The group construes lands once ruled by Muslims as Muslim lands and considers it as their duty to get them back. It embraces a pan-Islamist rationale for military action
Just like Hamas and Hazebolla, this group seek the destruction of the Hindu state, so no matter how we try to spin it there's an element of religion in what going on between Pakistan and India..like I said the other time religion was what divided the two countries into two..
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