₦airaland Forum

Nubian113:
It's Saturday... Its Vodka on the menu

vod what?

that shii will make me misbehave.. you dont want me to poo in your house do you?

good one there griffon.. i'm debating the origin of life and evolution as a creationist

hi here, where my coffee? and bitter kola pls..

johnydon22:
Alright bro

sure.. Ronald4lif?

ronald4lif:
Chei. Look at how you murdered the son of man. Be merciful bruv, show mercy.

bro. How far nah.... Abi you don forget nii

Nice one teempak... could you pls do something on the clouds some other time? The formation, types, it's importance etc..

johnydon22:
Lmao.. Like i said i think you need to visit various ideas of varying philosophies on spirituality... Till then i cannot hope you understand that

You can be rest assured I will.. till then, you can keep your head..cos I'm coming back for it

Nubian113:
Ok. Well the 5 pillar's are my challenge if I'm honest so let me go back to perfecting those... I love chatting to you bro, hope you're well x

you are very much right dear, one or two of those pillars are always the challenges most Muslims face.. May Allah help us.,


And yes you are fun to chat dear.. will come say hi to you at home later.. pls make coffee

johnydon22:
Lmao i know more about the Concept of spiritualism as regards spirity claims more than you can ever imagine... Many people have many distinct ideas roped to the concept of spiritualism..You may look up distinct philosophies to confirm this, so spirituality is not restricted to that basic basic idea you are imagining ..

What i gave you is my own usage and idea of that word not yours

You don't borrow what you own.. you already gave the spirituality you own out.. your version now isn't spirituality., its something else which I know nothing of yet..

Nubian113:
But religion requires you to follow blindly and not analysis but that you study it, regurgitate this knowledge all your long days.

I questioned and analysed and found that in fact this was all smoke and mirrors. I can't apply religion to MY environment ha! It contradicts my environment. My environment is a live and let live environment so religion won't help that mantra so... Yeah

no, you don't have to follow blindly.. so far no one is forcing you to.. all Islam requires are the five pillars, the six article of faiths and moral ethics.. that is all Allah requires from us.. I don't subscribe to any addition or deduction..

johnydon22:
Oh you are right here, Depends on my own idea of spiritualism.

If by spiritualism you are referring to spirity realm of flying angels and thunder grabbing entities with golden mansions all all other absurd higi haga abound then surely enough everyone knows my stance on that.

If i can borrow the word "Spiritual" it will be to quantify the deep and profound wonder and sense of belonging that comes with realizing you are part and a whole of a vast cosmos and everything in it are no different from the other or external to it's fundamentals.

My usage of the word "spiritual" surely enough is not in the sense you may imagine, i just borrowed the word

Then never borrow a word you know nothing about again

johnydon22:
Hahahaha your idea of spirituality is subscribing to the moral idea of another... lmao..

You see how vague it is?

This your religion and its ethical lay outs are still products of a society because it takes members of a society to incite such ideology... So you see? you are still following societal dictates tagged "Spirituality"..

You should be good to others because you want good to happen, because you are compassionate and empathic towards them not because a guy named muhammed told you a God told him things you shouldn't do..

If anything deserves to be dubbed "spiritual" in the sense of a profound essence of morality then am sure we all know the words in red describes it better..

Depends on your definition of spiritual ( I remembered we never agreed on the existence of spiritualism) and yes, religion has its own moral ethics in which only few were culled from the societies where it all started..

This is a challenge to re believers, we are expected to filter some of these beliefs and use it as it applies to ou environment..

johnydon22:
Then my advice is, Find out now that which you should have made that is the mark of independent reason and principles...

finding out means walking out of faith completely... then leaving a life with no spiritual guidance, only societal and ethical.. no! Spiritual influence is better than societal influence.. I will pass

This thread is hot.. e make fp nii? m enjoying this

johnydon22:
From what you have shown us here you do not make your own choice, your religion does that for you.
If i gamble or smoke it will be because i choose to do them not a mistake but an act of my own volition.. You see the difference between us?

I do things because i want to, you do them out of obligation ..

I cannot wrap my head around the fact that there are humans who wouldn't find the need to be ethical unless coerced with fear into it.

You have shown to be roped into your religious ideas in determining your moral outlook, worse of all you require to be coerced by fear... Surely you have shown to lack independent principle and reason as regards morality.
ISIS and BOKO HARAM both have religion and still they kill and maim and cause untold mayhem on the planet... You see, religion is not a determinant of morality.

And you need to be threatened into conformity with the threat of torture and promise of a reward ? this of course shows you never really have been good but is using the act of "goodness" as a means to achieve "selfish" goals of evading punishment or gaining a reward not because you really wanted to be good.

You have only shown you lack independency in your own reason to formulate your own principles and live by them but need to be leashed by religious ideas of another human for guidance.

that is a sorry way to live..

You are.. the question remains.

"So if religion did not tell you that killing is wrong, you couldn't have figured it out on your own?

YES or NO

Chai... you didn't get my point.. but I understand yours.. I won't discuss religio. With you abeg
Don't worry, I will someday, not just today..
The answer remains I don't know which choice I would have made.. maybe right or wrong

Nubian113:
You coulda learnt those things yourself too. Religion taught people at a time when people needed inspiration as far as right and wrong. Today religion is redundant unless you still need to be taught basics. Today science is my teacher. Religion is my friend. Not teacher thou lol

Nah, religion is not redundant.. the extremist makes it look so. We all have our brains for a reason.. we should not just follow blindly, we are to re-analyse and see how our beliefs suites us and our enviroments.. most people today just follow the scriptures blindly..

Study it, re-gurgitate on it apply it to your environment, then live by it..that has always been how I do mine

johnydon22:
I do not do any of these yet like gamble or smoke and am not religious...

So you cannot determine and make your own choice of life based on what you find to be good for you but relies on the idea of another to do that for you?

Thats more like having no mind of your own..

You see, religion is not a determinant of ethics unless for one who lacks independency in principle and reason.. I decide my own life and live my own life and not off people's idea this makes my life my own.

I ask again "Without religion telling you not to do the things you listed above or kill, you would be doing them?"

You dodging you know

I'm a man because I can make my own choice.. that is the difference between me and angels.. our self will is not just a blessing, it also makes us prone to errors.. so yes, I can make a mistake, I can eat pork, gamble, smoke etc. Religion is there as a guide and also as a fear factor for us to be upright.

If there were no religions, I probably might decide to be a hired killer (at least it pays well), or be an armed robber, or eat snakes, pork, etc. I won't have this fear of the afterlife in me.. so it helps me to be more upright...


And no, I'm not dodging

johnydon22:
Lmao..

But you don't need religion to teach you to be ethical unless of course you lack independent moral basis which is a sorry state for sure. in fact i can point out to you many of these religious ethics that are not even near moral.

So now let me show you that you don't need religion to be ethical..

"So if your religion didn't say Don't kill, you cannot figure out killing was wrong on your own?"

Johnny, abeg.. leave me alone... religious thought me not to gamble, it thought me not to take alcohol (not even a pint) taught me not to eat pork, taught me not to smoke there are many actions the society sees as norms but really aren't norms..

johnydon22:
So i take it if your doctrine does not tell you not to cheat you couldn't have deducted it is a societal vice to cheat on your own?

If you cheat your crime is cheating and that action remains one towards the person you cheated.

If following your logic you offend God by cheating the orphan doesn't it appeal to logic that by making amends you should also have appeased God..

Or is God some egocentric entity that demands you beg when your action is not towards him neither can it be..

Lol, I can't debate God with you.. nothing I say here will convince you..

And yes, it is a social norm to be upright, religion only thought us how to be more upright. And you don't believe in any...

johnydon22:
This remains the point, you owe no one an apology but the person who your action is directly directed to.

We do not need forgiveness from God(s) over our relationship with one another but rather we need forgiveness from ourselves and all others around us who are victims of our ill action.

Our loyalty should more be to our own kind than to vague concepts

According to my doctrines, I was commanded not too cheat an orphan. Let is assume I did mistakenly cheat an orphan, I've not only disobeyed God, I've also offended an innocent orphan. So I have to ask for God's forgiveness for disobeying him. Also I have to ask the orphan for forgiveness for cheating him/her.

johnydon22:
Then lets invite the mods to do the needful lets hear more opinions.

Cc. Lalasticlala Mynd44

Stop wasting your time abeg... those mods won't show up

In Islam, you ask God for forgiveness for committing a sin against a fellow human. But the one you commit the sin against must forgive you too, if not, he can ask for retribution on the day of judgement..


So one must ask the offended human for forgiveness...

Nice write up

Chai, this sukkot ehn

johnydon22:
Am sorry i did, the question just "wowed" me .. didn't know any other way to explain but to start from the scratch.. Think about it, take all the time you need...

Lol.. thanks sha.. no qualms

johnydon22:
You have already mentioned what is responsible and again asked what is responsible…

Mass of the object is responsible for the distortion... Ok put is in a simple term "Weight"

So any thing that comes in contact with that distortion slides down towards the bottom of the dent... that is gravity.

Do this for me: Bring a wrapper and stretch it on all four side so that the wrapper is finely flat make sure you keep it on air. (You can call 4 kids to help with this and hold each edge of the wrapper)

then bring a heavy object and keep on top of the stretched out wrapper, you will notice that the heavy object makes the fabric to sink under it's weight.

Then bring a smaller object and put it within that dent made by the heavier object in the wrapper, you will see that the smaller object slides down towards bigger object like sliding down a water way.

That is gravity... Hope this is comprehensible enough

Lol, now you had to treat me like m just learning science abi I get your point jhur.. still thinking on this tho

johnydon22:
Picture Space/time like an interwoven fabric.

If you place an object on a fabric the object distorts the fabrics where it rests under its weight.

so once an object is placed on a fabric it dents the fabric like i showed you with an example of you seating on a soft bed.

Any object that comes in contact with that dent with be dragged down towards the center of the dent which in this case is you.

That is gravity... "Distortion of space/time by Mass " not a force

I get your point but I still don't understand... but what actually is responsible for the distortions caused by this mass? Isn't it gravity? ( a force responsible for downward displacement)

Griffon:
I've got few rebuttal to drop but I guess sticking to the Saturday plan will be ideal.



To avoid discrepancies, bringing in religion into the discourse will be important.

I'll have a thread created on Saturday and it will go by the name "Big bang or God?".

Ronald4lif what says you?

This is getting interesting.. but I won't debate the formation of the earth, due to the fact that we won't be able to show how and why the universe came into existence.. even the Quran only told us how. The earth was formed..

“Do not the Unbelievers see
that the heavens and the earth
were joined together (as one
unit of Creation), before
We clove them asunder?”
[Al-Qu’ran 21:30]

Here is another one on the initial gaseous mass before creation of galaxy

“Moreover, He Comprehended
in His design the sky,
and it had been (as) smoke:
He said to it and to the earth:
‘Come ye together,
willingly or unwillingly.’
They said: ‘We do come (together),
in willing obedience.’”
[Al-Qur’an 41:11]


Again, this fact is a corollary to the ‘Big Bang’ and was not known to anyone before the prophetehood of Muhammad (Peace be upon him)1. What then, could have been the source of this knowledge?

The striking similarity between the Qur’anic verse and ‘The Big Bang’ is inescapable! How could a book, which first appeared in the deserts of Arabia 1400 years ago, contain this profound scientific truth?

But I won't dwell on that..


I will stick with the emergence of life on earth. How it all started, How the first human came into existence.

sukkot:
hehe sup bros bqlekan

Brother, I've got one or two things to learn from you here.. can't contribute, I'm still a learner o

Teempakguy:
sorry for the long wait jare.

laptop issues.

anyway, what's your stance here?

you know sometimes I wish I can put things like this together.. really self explanatory.. I'm convinced.. I will ask my question(s) later.. lemme digest it well...

Been waiting for this thread teempak.. I knew when sukkot challenged you

ronald4lif:
That's okay. Present our views relating to our beliefs, evolution, how planet earth/universe came about etc. Also, how religion was borne and the circumstances surrounding it creation amongst others. Just anything, there's no roles I'm guessing.

Then the other person present their countenance or discountenance as the case may be citing their reasons. But may I also plead that we fix it for exactly 9pm Naija time, as that's when I'm hoping to be at leisure.

Hmm.. okay.. 9pm my time... but do we really want to bring religion into this? Why not just creationist vs evolutionist? Plain and simple

ronald4lif:
Let's settle for anytime from 6pm on Saturday. But I'd like to point out that whatever question anyone is putting forward they should take a stance and not just ask.

Like if one is asking for example how did oxygen came about? They should tender how and where energy emerged from before the other person would either agree or disagree citing his reasons.

Not like you asked earlier where did the first human came from without stating what you think. Applies to YourMain as well. Cheers.

Also, how about presenting our believes? Evolution? Abiogenesis etc. Then we can ask questions later,

misspicy:
rub with adin dudu in the morning

ori in the afternoon

ororo in the evening

I'm not a deity nah. M human with Bald head not skin head. Should I be a deity, I'd prefer ice cream, butter, mayonnaise etc poured on my head and not these local creams,