ezebrain:





@bynah an inquirer had put a similar question to justcool many years ago. The following is his reply. I hope it will answer your question.

@justcool, I apologize for pesting your previous post here. I only wish to help bynah in his inquiry.

By justcool:
I found it strange that you (strong believer of the authenticity of Bible) can pursue that line of argument. The implication of your argument is that all the stories in the Bible is fallacy. Let me explain what I mean:
If I write a fiction, lets say I invent a fictitious character called "Monga," and I claim that Monga lives in the moon. Then if another author tells a story about a Monga who live in the moon; I can argue with certainty that he(the author) stole the idea from me. Because "Monga" is my invention.
But If there is actually a Monga that live in the moon. My accusation of the author stealing the idea from may not be true. The author could have gone to the moon and seen "Monga," or the author could have been vissited by Monga, or the author could have gained the knowledge of the existence of Monga by viewing the moon through telescope or by communicating with Monga electronically.
Lets lets apply this analogy to the Grail Message and the Bible.
If the things written in the Bible were true and actually exist, then it is possible that another person could see them too. I. e. if God actually exist and He gave Moses the ten commandments, this opens up a possibility that God can reveal the same ten commandment that He gave to Moses to another person. If you truly believe that every allusion to the ten commandment could have not come from any where else except the Bible. Then by implication, you are saying that God and the ten commandments are fictitious inventions made by Moses and other Bible writers.
When Jesus talked about the son of man, He(Jesus) did not draw His knowledge from the ancient scriptures; eventhough some of the ancient scripture before Jesus contained information about the son of man. When Jesus' utterances agree with a particular scripture, this goes to show the correctness of that particular scripture. It also shows that Jesus draw His knowledge from the same source as the writer of the scripture. To assert that Jesus draw His knowledge from that scripture is very wrong. If the source of the knowledge actually exists, then another can draw the same knowledge from HIM(the source), and not necessarily from any scripture.
Also, everything that has ever happened has been recorded by time. God can permit a person to access the archives of time, i.e. witness an event that happened thousands of years ago. This can be shown to that person in a dream. I do not want to boost of my experiences, but it might help if I tell you that I personally have once been allowed to see an event that happened thousands of years ago. This not just me, most people experience this at least once in there life times. Perharps you might have had such an experience too. You might write a book on what you were allowed to see, perhaps it is an event that was already recorded in history books. It will be very wrong for one to accuse you of plagiarising the history books which you might not have read. It will be wrong for one to accuse of drawing from the history books, just because your book mentioned the same events that is mentioned in the History books.

@ezebrain thanks but I don't see this answer as ok for the inquiry I made. I have come across this reply by justcool and it was correct I believe for that particular question that was asked but I don't think it satisfies mine.
In that case which I can't recall completely, the questioner purported that a story similar to that found in the bible must have been copied from the bible. In my question I'm asking about where a correction is being made over what was not properly recorded in the bible and the correct version which should be found in the truth is still not there to be used in the correct form which should be sourced from the truth.
I want to know explicitly what should be the correct phrase to use instead of "Lead us not into temptation" because I intuitively feel it is wrong but the Grail Message doesn't have the correct wording to use as a replacement.
I hope I have made the question clearer.
Thanks and remain blessed.

justcool:

@bynah
Thanks for your question. I’m sorry I didn’t notice the above questions till today.
The Grail message never said that Jesus was born 25th of December. However, there is nothing wrong in setting out a day to celebrate the birth of the savior, even if the day of celebration is not the exact day of the savior’s birth. Therefore, some churches that celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25th are not doing it because they think He was actually born on that day. It is a day that has been marked out for the celebration. December 25th is the day of celebration of the winter solstice; a celebration that was very important for the ancient Europeans, hence the early Christian church in their quest to win converts, incorporated it into Christianity, and Christianized it to be the celebration of the birth of Jesus. The Grail message never said that adherents must celebrate the birth of Jesus on 25th December; if some do, they do it out or personal choice. Christ was born around the winter solstice, based on the laws of creation there is a significance to this day; however the exact day of His birth is not 25th.
While ancient Easter celebration has paganisitic or heathen origin, the resurrection of Jesus happened to fall on the day the ancients celebrated Easter. The early Christians, especially the early Roman Christian church allowed Northern European converts to continue with the celebration that has been so deeply engraved into the fabric of Northern European life; the church perhaps feared she(the church) will lose their Northern European converts of they were deprived celebrations that they were so used to. Hence the celebrations were allowed to continue; but rather than paying homage to Ēostre (an ancient goddess), Christians were advised to pay homage to Christ. Hence early European tribes kept their pagan traditions, the church wanted to use these celebrations and traditions as bridge that will gradually lead the pagan converts from paganism to Christianity. Therefore they were told to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus on Easter day, rather than the resurrection of nature(spring with her accompanying fertility) which the ancients attributed to the goddess Eostre, who was also the goddess of fertility.
This way certain pagan practices, like decoration or painting of eggs (which symbolizes adoration to fertility), egg hunting, Ash Wednesday, abstaining from meat eating during lent, etc, were carried over into Christianity and mixed with the resurrection of Jesus.
There is nothing wrong in celebrating nature(spring with her abundant fertility). But by now mankind should have matured spiritually enough, to give thanks to the Almighty God for His gift of spring. Some of the goddesses that the ancients worshiped or thanked during this period are actually elementals or links in the embodiments of radiations that ultimately started from the Kingdom of God. Hence for all that we find in nature, for every season with their respective gifts, we should bow before the Almighty God and thank Him in humility for his graciousness.
Indeed some of the ancient celebrations are quite good, especially when they celebrate nature which is the work of the Creator. What should have changed by now is the attitude, or the intuitive perceptions that the ancients attached to the things or natural phenomena that they celebrated.
For example, some ancients on perceiving the importance of the sun and its rays for life on earth, adored the sun. Overtime, they matured to the extent that the clairvoyants among them can see the elemental beings that work in the radiations of the sun; some went as far as seeing the Apollo, the being in charge of the sun; and they adored him. However if they keep going onwards with their development, overtime they will see beyond Apollo and ultimately they will reach a stage where they realize that all, including the sun, belongs the One and only true God, the Almighty God, the only One worthy of worship. But most ancients didn’t go onwards in their spiritual development, overtime they became stagnant, and once stagnant, retrogression followed. Hence adoration of the sun or Apollo degenerated to worship of the sun or Apollo. And this is wrong for only God should be worshiped.
The modern man today, who should have matured spiritually, should know that there is nothing wrong in adoring the sun. Indeed it is duty to recognize the value of the sun which is a great gift from God, and which we must never seek to destroy. However, our gratitude and worship should be directed only to God Almighty, who in His indescribable love gave us the sun for our benefit on earth.
Even some ancient Africans that adored and worshipped the earth; they have a day set out for the worship and celebration of the earth. For example, the ancient Igbos adored Ani(the earth goddess). Such celebrations need not be done away with. What we should have stopped in regards to the celebration is the worship of the Earth or the goddess of the earth. The earth should still be adored, we can set out a day to thank the Almighty for the gift of the earth, and on that day we should renew our vow never to see the earth fall into the realm of darkness. Never to stain it with evil deeds. Hence some of these ancient traditions should have been kept; it is our attitude that should have evolved. The tradition itself is not inherently evil. But unfortunately, we became stagnant and consequently retrogression followed. Then came the white missionaries who forcibly destroyed and forbade these traditions; they took away our traditions and handed us theirs. Celebration of the earth is as good as celebration of Eostre (the celebration of spring). The ancient Europeans celebrated Spring and the each of the four seasons because nature in Europe gives them four seasons, (Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter). In tropical Africa where we have three seasons(Rainy, Dry, and Harmattan), and consequently you don’t find celebration of spring rather you find among several African tribes, the celebrating and worship of the rain; the first rain of the year of often received with adoration, praises and even celebration and worship of the god of rain or sky. There is nothing inherently wrong in this adoration and celebration, only the worship of god is wrong. Hence by now Africans should still adore rainfall, be grateful for it; and set out a day to thank the Almighty for it.
However, it was very unfair for the missionaries to tell our forefathers to drop their celebrations of the nature around them and pick up celebrations like Eostre which stems from Europeans celebration of their environment.
Also there is nothing wrong in remembering the resurrection of Christ during the period of Easter; but one must be fully aware that Christ did not resurrect physically; for such will be contrary to the laws of creation which testify of the perfection of the creator and which incorruptible and unchangeable. Bringing the celebration of resurrection of Christ to Africans is not wrong, because Jesus is their Lord too. However other things like the painting or hunting of eggs, abstaining from meat during lent and etc, are all European cultures which brings the African no benefit. Rather it takes his view off his own environment and culture. People should be able to disassociate these practices, abstaining from meat eating during lent, Ash Wednesday, etc from Jesus. As these are European cultural practices that in reality have nothing to do with Jesus.
In Abdruschin’s lecture, “Let Easter arise within you, man!” It is my perception that by using the word, ‘Easter,’ Abdruschin meant resurrection. Hence “Let Easter arise within you, man!” means let the spirit within you awaken or let there be an awakening within you. Just as nature resurrects in Easter(Spring), the spirit of man should resurrect or awaken spiritually before he can pass judgment and be worthy to experience the millennium or Kingdom of God. It is like Christ, “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the ....” It has nothing to do with paganisistic worship of Eoster) or physical resurrection of Christ.
Also, you have to understand that so many things and even names that we accepted from Erupeans have paganisinc origins. Think of the names of the days, for example. Sunday refers to day for the worship of the sun. Thursday refers to the Thor, the god of thunder. Saturday refers to the god Saturn, etc. Even months of the year: August is the month of Augustus Caser, a roman emperor. July is the month of Julius Caesar. And of these roman emperors were known as Ponifex Maximus, living gods. Even the pagan term Pontifex was adopted into Christianity; even the pope today still goes by the title of Pontifex. The fact that a thing has paganistic origin does not make that thing inherently wrong; it is that attitude with which we approach those things that make it right or wrong. Here, names are just for identification, be they names of days, months, etc. You wont burden yourself with guilt for calling a day Thursday, Saturday. etc. as long as you don't really worship these gods.
With this knowledge, right attitude, and spiritual maturity, one can celebrate Easter(resurrection of nature) righteously or in a manner that is pleasing to God. Just as one can choose to celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25th; and there is nothing wrong with this, provided such a one is doing it with the right attitude. Actually we, as servants of God should strive to celebrate the birth of Jesus every minute of our lives and with each breath we take! With each breath we should vow to God to live exactly as Christ taught us; such is the correct way of celebrting the gift of His birth.
Thanks and remain blessed.

@justcool
Thanks for the reply. It's quite remarkable that you answered even the ones that I didn't write down.
I used to belong to a sect that didn't believe in any celebration attached to a date because of the issue of pagan origins. Thanks for clearly illuminating the point. This was exactly what I needed.
I also have a second in my second post which is directly above your reply to my question. It's about the phrase "And lead us not into temptation".
Remain blessed.

Dear all, especially adherents of the grail mesage.
My question bothers on the affirmation that the grail message draws directly from the truth, since this is so why does it still get handicapped by transmission errors, for example from the lecture "The Lord's Prayer" In Vol. 2 of The
Grail Message
“And lead us not into temptation!”
Man has a wrong conception when he tries to interpret these words as if God would tempt him. God tempts no one! In this case, owing to a doubtful transmission, the unfortunate choice of the word “temptation” was made. The right meaning would include such concepts as erring, going astray and thus going wrong, and seeking the Light on the wrong path.
It means: “Let us not take the wrong road, nor seek in the wrong direction! Let us not lose, waste nor fritter away time in such seeking! But if necessary restrain us forcibly from doing so, even if we need to be stricken with sorrow and pain!”
My understanding originally was that there was a Truthful source where everything was correctly recorded, this excerpt only shows that the writer is taking from bible transmission in this case.
Thanks and stay blessed.

Hello all,
It gives me great joy to be actually posting on this thread. I came across the Grail Message about 3 years ago, and I have read it severally, including the 1931 version. I discovered this thread about two years ago and have been of and on and a guest till now.
My knowledge of the Message has been greatly enriched by the inputs of justcool and m_nwankwo and some others, I give all the praise to God for leading me here.
I do read sequentially everytime and need clarification on the issue of Christmas Dec 25th being the birth of Christ, I'm not at the lecture so I may not be able to pick out paragraphs now but it's bothering me seriously. I also don't understand why Easter too should be celebrated since historically they are of pagan origins.
I don't know much but I'm beginning to understand some things, this issue is the one most paramount to me for the time being.
Thanks and remain blessed.