MiddleDimension:
what are the conseqiencies of leaking the content of the monohraph? i am going to ask the same question someone asked earlier which you did not reply: can one get access to our materials especially the digest/heritage without being a member?

If the digest was top secret I doubt it would be posted on the main website for all to see for free.
https://www.rosicrucian.org/rosicrucian-digest

I'd say feel free to read.

fratermathy:


Degree initiations are fixed once every month in every lodge in the world, typically the last weekend of the month in many lodges.

You don't have to pause monographs pending initiations. There are home initiations you may undertake by yourself before proceeding to a new degree. Going to a lodge is to basically consolidate on the home initiation, get certified for that degree initiation and to get new lessons not conveyed in the monographs.

I wish you well as you undertake the path of the Rose and Cross. Pax Profoundi!

Nothing more to ask or add, just wanted to follow up with another thanks for all the help.

Peace Profound
-Frater Dave

fratermathy:


There is no such segregation as far as I am aware. I know people who hardly attend lodges except when they want to progress to higher degrees or on special events. Nobody segregates them whatsoever.

When I say there are some mystical experiences only a lodge can provide, I say so with special reference to initiations from degrees to degrees and other convocations where lessons are given by the lodge's worthy master.

That's good to hear. Think I'm gonna pull the trigger and sign up. For initiations is that something you'd normally have to petition a lodge to do, or do most have a regular schedule for that kind of thing? And would you just continue working on monographs until they get you in, or put them on pause typically until you did whatever initiation, and then resume.

Thanks for being helpful and forthcoming in helping me make this decision. Excited to get my first packet.

fratermathy:

No problem. I haven't been in AMORC for 50+ years, just a member old enough in AMORC



No offence taken. Apology wasn't needed.



My guess is that the board updated the monographs in response to Stewart's exact usage of them in his own group. It wouldn't make sense for two groups to be distributing the exact same materials. Another reason for the change was probably the change in governance of AMORC. Every leader injects his own idea into an organisation. Christian Bernard may have believed that updating the monographs was necessary in order for AMORC to be attuned to contemporary realities. Knowledge is not static but dynamic and there is always the need to update curriculum in order to attract younger Rosicrucians and suit 21st century realities. However, we may never really know the exact reason why save for speculations as I have made.



I am not savvy with the entire old monographs but I may have seen one or two to know that it was much deeper in content. However, bear in mind that CR+C has a limited number of monographs which Lewis wrote before his death and I don't know if Stewart has updated this. In AMORC, thousands of new monographs have been written and even the old ones have been updated and simplified. If you need to follow a path that emphasises ease and progressive development, AMORC offers that. However, if you need something intense and written in the esoteric language of the early 20th century, CR+C should do it for you. The Rosicrucian path is a personal journey. However one embarks upon it is not the issue but how one attains the state of the Rosy Cross is far more important. Illumination can be reached via any means but I believe that AMORC's method offers for a general richer experience.



Yes. AMORC has a worldwide representation. Lodges, chapters and pronaos help in no small measure in the quick development of students. There are many mystical experiences and lessons that can only be learnt from Rosicrucian lodges.



I used Nigeria's calculation earlier. Since CR+C has no regional base in Africa, intending members have to register straight to the USA and pay in dollars. AMORC has a base in Nigeria and Africa as a whole and this has made subscription cheaper and easier.



It will take 5 1/2 years to complete degree 1 to degree 9. Thereafter the student moves to the Illuminati degree of degree 10-12 which may take an additional 5 years to complete. Afterwards, students go to Ordo Summon Bonum section and move through the degree of planes 1-7. The degree of planes may take decades to complete and some members generally end here. However, if anyone goes through the planes, s/he becomes a life member of AMORC and there are other unnamed "sections" and monographs. In essence, you never stop reading in AMORC. Apart from the monographs, there are other ways to learn in AMORC: joining the Traditional Martinist Order, learning kabbalah, partaking in Lodges, Chapters and Pronaos convocations and excercises, etc etc.

Thanks fratermathy, have me leaning back towards AMORC now. I like the prospects of continued learning. But did want to ask you one more thing. Something you mentioned, as well as something a friend of mine mentioned. You said

fratermathy:
There are many mystical experiences and lessons that can only be learnt from Rosicrucian lodges.

I have a friend who has studied Rosicrucianism from a non-AMORC path. What path or organization he keeps close to the vest, and doesn't like to say. He said when he was researching in New York City, he came across some AMORC gentleman during his work. They questioned him, and he gave answers satisfactory enough to somewhat openly speak about certain things during his time there. Anyways, my friend, while not a part of the organization, he was under the impression that while you may be a subscribed at home study member, you're not really seen as a "real Rosicrucian" or a "real AMORC" member unless you actually go to and participate in a lodge.

Based on his comments, and yours above, I'm just wondering your thoughts on this. If I had a lodge in my back yard I'd go, but looking at the website it looks like the nearest one is a 5 hr drive in either direction.

As always, thanks in advance!

My apologies on the 50 yrs thing, some reason higher up in the thread I thought you said you've been with AMORC that long.

And my apologies if I came off insulting toward AMORC, or if you took it that way, as your response almost sounds as if I rubbed you the wrong way. If so, I apologize. Just seeking to understand. I can see someone continuing to stay with AMORC with a "well that's not how we learned in the old days, it was tougher, took more skill to stick it out, but I still enjoy the organization" type of attitude. So that's where some of my questions were coming from.

Its my impression that the board booted Gary Stewart when they tried to sue him for mismanagement of funds or something, a case they later dropped (which I'm not here to debate that yes or no), And that AFTER he was booted, they instituted an update to the monographs. Perhaps my understanding of the timeline is incorrect. So you never went through the older material? Or you did, but feel the newer is better organized for the would be learner?

I didn't suspect you were a member of CR+R or claim that, but if you were on the old AMORC Monographs the CR+R would most likely closely resemble them. If you thought the older Monographs were a little better I might be compelled to look the CR+R route. If you felt the newer were still in the spirit, easier, better. etc... then obviously have leanings in that direction.

Yes your point about all the Lodges, Chapters and Pronaos was one of the things in favor of AMORC in my eyes.

In America its actually cheaper to be with CR+C. $100 a yr vs $150 for AMORC, but that difference really doesn't matter to me. More was looking for someone with long term experience. If their overall thought was the new monographs are better than the old, I'd gladly pay the additional price (for me) for AMORC.

One last question. Not that I'm looking to end before I ever begin, but one of the European AMORC sites said it takes about 5 1/2 years to go through the degree program. Are there still... I'm note sure how to word it, opportunities to advance past this (5yr period) with additional learning? Or the thought to just refine the material you've learned over the past few years. (Realizing you might not be able to comment on this too much).

Thanks in advance!!

@fratermathy I had a few questions, that perhaps your 50 some years of membership could provide insight into.

I'm thinking about joining AMORC, possibly, but unsure about it after the "split". So I'm left between a choice of AMORC and CR+C . The one hand it claimed that AMORC changed so much material when updating that a lot of the original meanings have become lost or obscured from original intent and that while CR+C has updated, has kept original meanings intact. But on the other side AMORC seems like such a large organization, nice that they put out magazines, larger support base, etc....

Since you have been with, pre and post split, what are your thoughts of the changes you've seen, either for better or worse? Are the negatives overblown?

I'm left wondering, should I do AMORC, should I do CR+C, should I do them both at the same time and take the best of each lesson? I found monographs for the AMORC postulate section. Wish I could find Mandamus 1 or 2 for CR+R, so I could take them side by side to compare. (I should note that even though I found some monographs which people do post online, I do fully intend on becoming a full paying member once decided, just wanted some help in making a decision).

Thanks in advance!
-Dave