₦airaland Forum

We keep mixing things up,again because of half-knowledge.
The Nigerian health system cannot be compared to US or UK at this point.A typical US nurse will not hold scalpels unless she z passing it to a surgeon in the theatre,a physician won't do heart surgery,a physiotherapist won't treat heart failure because he z also in d health system.Everybody understands deir limits and dey stay within.A physio knows he can't earn d same as an orthopedic surgeon except in dreams.A physician knows he can't do knee replacement.
Until we solve dese issues will we be able to start comparing,otherwise the results will be disastrous.

double0seven: please stop twisting things... no one is ranting about nurses heading hospitals in US. And Nigerian nurses have neither do they nurse such ambitions. They just want the ones among them who wish to, to be able to be all that they can be in their chosen profession like their counterparts elsewhere.

You talk as if it every nurse that will be able to become a consultant. or are there no guidelines guiding this things?

D you know the guidelines if there are any?

We keep ranting about nurses heading hospitals in US.Do they head MGH,Johns hopkins,yale,Mayo clinic,Cleveland?NO(those are the best hospitals in US nd nurses don't head them).
Because they head few suburban clinics in US does not translate allowing them to head to head our teaching hospitals.
Nurse practitioners in US typically work in under served areas in primary care where doctors are not interested.
Nurse consultants in US are not even hospital based.
Half-knowledge is very harmful,u don't handpick,u examine d whole situation.

This is it!
It's going to be fallacy to claim that doctors have the best brains,yes they have very good brains,but u can be a pharmacist and have higher IQ than a doctor.
But it ain't just about IQ,medicine is an art and a science u learn nd get better on the job with time.
Doctors have the widest and most rigorous form of training amongst all health professionals,that can't be disputed.They are therefore naturally fit to lead any HEALTH team.Yes some people will say the CMD position is an purely,thats not true,why then does every teaching hospital have a designated Director of administration who is not a doctor.Comparing our health care structure with US,Uk will mean we r ready to replace d whole system with deirs.Handpicking rules and situations which suits each association's interests nd neglecting the ones that don't wont help the situation.

hismail1: So, if i am a professor in the field of pharmacy,i.can not become a consultant? Why should doctors be dictating for other health professionals, it's unfair.

U need a clinical residency to be a consultant,being a professor is academic.dont u get?a doc dat does M.Sc,Ph.D,in microbiology,lectures,write papers nd becomes a professor is a professor nd nutty else,u cn only be appointed as a consultant in a teaching hospital wen u complete a residency in clinical microbiology nd become a fellow.

This is very simple Yourhealthlabs,its time to stop playing with words nd give facts.Post the residents payslips,the nurses,PTs and pharms.For heavens sake u claimed to hv dem. And den we cn reason with you. Plus u ll get that sympathy you crave.
But am guessing u don't hv any payslips, nor do u know how much anybody earns. u were told stuffs and u didn't verify before coming here to post those lies,what does that make you?

YourHealthlabs: You've not told us why your residents and interns are afraid of having their payslips in the public sphere or did i conjure this one too?
They even hide their playslips from relatives to protect their Jumbo pay.It's not a LIE.

Google is free and easy.
I don't need to post the payslips anymore, the residents i quoted have vindicated me.

JOHESU are not the ones making demands, FG have met the few ones we've ask for(though nobody has debated earning more than interns/ residents). We will only include it in our next agenda if there is a rescind of the FG-Johesu agreement.


The information is not unfounded that's the source. Let the world judge and see who the liar is.

www.medicalworldnigeria.com/2014/04/association-of-resident-doctors-uch-accuses-johesu-nuahp-of-bribing-abuja-politicians

Everyone following this thread carefully will see thru your lies,one moment u say the payslips are public and u can show us,now ur saying u don't need to show us but we should beliv u anyways. We r not fools we want facts,if ur claim is right prove it to us. That's all we ask. Doctors don't go around snooping through other people's payslips,so why snoop through ours.
So because UCH residents are preventg u to snoop through deir payslips,u decided to assume they make exactly 400% more than pharmacists and nurses.Ur funny

propofol: personally i feel that those non-doctors that want to be consultants are just exploiting the fact that majority of Nigerians are not literate . If you go to an average Nigerian and say 'Hello im Dr so and so the person immediately assumes that he is talking to a medical doctor but the problem this 'Dr' is NOT going to correct that assumption any time soon. So a nurse or a lab scientist can be treating you and will not tell you his real profession. This is something that has been happening for a long time. Now the government wants to make it official. Tell the patient that you are a consultant nurse and see if he will allow you treat him.

And Nigerians are hailing d idea.i pity una

YourHealthlabs: Dr ade, i've desisted from quoting you as you couldn't handle your emotions in of your previous submissions.

Let me show you something, below is an excerpt from a secret letter written by resident doctors under ARD UCH to NMA, it somehow found it's way to the public. No more free lessons, google these key words "ard uch accuse Johesu of bribing politicians"

All i see is a letter painted all over with insecurity, fear, distress, panic and anxiety.



Concentrate on the bolded

1.Why are they afraid of having their payslips fall into JOHESU's hands, they don't even trust their spouse and parents with those payslips, how far can one go to protect a stolen booty.

2. Your renowned consultants can earn millions, i really don't care, but residents and medical interns have no business earning more than our Senior Scientists, Pharmacists, Physios. They can earn better than Scientist interns other interns in JOHESU, not the experienced one. It's not done anywhere in the countries we borrowed our health systems and look up to.

I tot u said u hv the payslips,now ur quoting some unfounded information that has no basis whatsoever.i repeat stop making assumptions,conjectures,just give us the facts as I did give u. And then we ll shut up henceforth,otherwise we r gonna hv to keep calling u a liar.
And everyone keeps telling u interns don't make more Dan dem.u disagreed but u did not prove urself.

YourHealthlabs: I really think you are misrepresenting issues here. Privatization will not be selective in our hospital. Private hospital are majorly run by health administrators abroad health professsionals have not lost there relevance there.
Need i remind you that a very large chunk of our health budget is used to service a salaries of out Doctor of engineering, doctor of kitchen services, doctor of laundry, doctor of laboratory, doctor of logistics and many consultants who report to work only to divert patients to their private hospitals and swindle them. Health Business owners won't allow that happen.

hehehehe, you sound like there will be no demerits for physicians in the event of privatization. How much do locum docs earn in the private sector?
Residents and intern docs will either pay fees or have a very large chunk of their salaries slashed out. Good business for the private owners.
Go learn how Fashola casualized your jobs after sacking about 300 of them. That's just a tip of what privatization bring with it.

You can't intimidate a Scientist with automation, autoanalyses didn't start here in Nigeria, and in the countries where it started there is a dearth of Scientists in there medical laboratory. Go check the immigration and permanent resident policy of Canada, U.S and Aussie. These professionals are prioritized in there immigration schemes. Automation hasn't filled those large gap. Moreover those machines will only give you a garbage in, garbage out results without a Scientist, running QC with the LJ chart during QC, calibrate, so many factors before adopting whatever results come out from those machines. Microbiology/parasitolgy have been difficult to automate even with DNA-PCR technique, go find out why thousands out medically important organism, species, sub-species and other factors.The opportunities for Scientists abound. Nobody's is fazed.

Again, with total privatization your JUMBO pay addicted residents and interns won't find it easy, and a health business owner may not be a able to afford to keep our JUMBO physician-consultants. Many will have to look elsewhere. So you won't be immune to the tsunami.

Think again.

Well history says u lie,so I beliv dz z all lies as usual

YourHealthlabs: When you succeed in abrogating the law so you accurately call me a Scientist then you'll be right.
Till then you call me tech, i can call u a wardman, only those who feel insecure will bw fazed, they are all titles, our thoughts are not more important than the law.

I don't know what the law calls Surgeons in Nigeria in the to MDCN act, but they are addressed as 'Mr' in some advanced countries. You can educate us in that respect.

Thanks.

Payslips

YourHealthlabs: I do not disagree with you. If u notice i have been hammering on intern and resident docs salary with other experienced health professionals.
The problem i have is an intern doc and resident earning more than an experienced Pharmacist, Scientists physios. It is not justifiable.

Wasn't expecting u to agree,but United States does,forbes does,cnn does.so u really don't need to agree.
Plus u ve failed to prove ur idea of interns nd residents earning more Dan dose people u mentioned. We r still waiting for dose payslips from you.

Since Yourhealthlabs is so interested in international standards in which he had displayed paucity of knowledge. It's time for a Lil education in that American system he likes so much.
Highest paying nurse job is being a Nurse anaesthetisist-top salary is $135k in california(the best place to practise nursing)

http://nursinglink.monster.com/education/articles/2626-top-10-highest-paying-nursing-specialties

Top salary for lab scientists-$105k

http://money.cnn.com/pf/best-jobs/2012/snapshots/48.html

Pharmacists-$133k

http://money.cnn.com/gallery/pf/2012/11/01/top-paying-jobs/8.html

Physiotherapists-$115k in Las vegas(best place to practise PT if ur in it for the money)

Doctors-Surgeons are the highest paid workers in US.The least paid doctors are the pediatricians
Orthopedic surgeons average $464k and pediatricians $170k(not even as low as the highest paid nurse)
Am sure u hear of surgeons that make million dollars and more.


http://www.forbes.com/pictures/fefi45jmhh/no-1-orthopedic-surgery-7/

Now that's relativity,which we should apply in Nigeria since its international standards

YourHealthlabs: You use dollar fine, so it's no longer about relativity.You want to play the dollar game?

Why don't you tell Nigerians that the pharmacist can earn as much as $120,000 and a Scientist as much as $112,000 annually and that no resident abroad earn six-digits in dollars in other climes. Multiply those figures by your 170 and tell us how much it is.

It can't always be about you. Health system is multi-disciplinary.

Thank you.

Dude go nd sleep,u no dey shame!Ahn Ahn they found you to be a liar in all your arguments,u d still come up with anoda one.
Well I already told u residents work 80-hrs/week in US.Compare ur 112000 dollars to american surgeons that makes 7figures(circa a million dollars).if u like have 100 years of experience,a radiographer won't earn as much as a radiologist,likewise d rest.Doctors will ALWAYS Earn higher than u guys becos dey work more nd deserve more,whateva country or setting.

Yourhealthlabs is a pathetic liar. Let him post the payslips since he wants to educate us. Post d "payslips" for all to see otherwise u remain a liar

YourHealthlabs: There are people/journalists working on that to make everything as public as possible. I'll let them do their jobs.
They won't fail, i promise

But u have it right?lets see abeg.u keep contradicting urself.its a shame.pls let the quotes end here.Thanks

Fellow docs,pls free dis guy. He talked so much about "payslips".Yet he hasn't shown us any despite how open nd free he claimed they are. He z nt to be taken serious. He has proven that beyond reasonable doubt

Don't mind dem docs,dey sure know how to lobby around consultant clinics wen dey or deir relatives get sick.nurses are experts in that tho,dey ll even come with uniforms. Later they ll say we r d same. bunch of liars,haters,nd doc wanna-be's.the fake doc dey r calling u outside hospital premises neva do u.

Now it's u guys against doctors.later it's gonna be u guys against one another wen d superiority battle starts between nurses,pharms,PTs,labs.its gonna be fun to watch.Again there is nowhere in the world u guys get more benefits than doctors,nd it's nt gonna start in our dear country.

YourHealthlabs: If an accident/ gunshot patient's sample comes from the casualty ward, a Scientist will tell the patient to wait till the next morning before running pcv, and analysing blood?, when he knows you are always ready to point fingers and blame the lab in the event of the patient's death?.Kai!...you are blatant liar Sir.

No trained Scientist will tell a patient to wait the next morning except it is sample that requires 24-48 culture(which in most cases you'll to prep media are not emergency issues) If he does, he erred and deserves sanction.

I'm sure it is physicians like you that requests a blood culture investigation(a lenghty test that takes about 3-4weeks) and then writes 'very very very urgent' on it. We see stuffs like this all the time.

Bro I think every sane person knows who the liar is by now.Good luck with dem lies.Surely the lies won't increase ur salary cos that's what u guys care about.

YourHealthlabs: In some state hospitals it is generally lesser in Federal hospitals especially the north it is higher. Do your research sir.

I duno when u did yours, but i'm talking about what's obtainable as we chat.

Bro there is nowhere interns earn 200k even with rural allowance,do u knw dey v removed teaching allowance nd some others.my friend jst finished internship in physio,his basic salary without allowances was 132k.why don't u jst show us d payslips sir

YourHealthlabs: If you don't know that Scientists take calls. Then i'm sorry you are not qualified to be engaged in an arguement.

A typical Scientist workday starts at 8am-4pm, he then stays on during call running the blood bank, Chemistry e.t.c till the next morning then continues work with his colleagues till 4pm. Only the Techicians and Assistants do shifts in lab.

Med lab Science is not inferior to medicine and vice versa.

Good morning.

Patients won't agree with u.u send them to the lab but they hv to wait till morning because u guys are not around.same thing with blood bank.Calls indeed.

This guy is soo ignorant.nd he keeps hammering on his lies.He clearly doesn't know a thing about wages.if u dunno try and learn from those who know. Stop lying to the public to get their sympathy. That's what doctors neva do,we don't lobby bullshit.we state facts nd facts alone.

YourHealthlabs: The Salary payslips are there for all to see. An Intern doc earns more than 200k, Intern Pharmacists earns about 117,000, Intern Scientists earn about 107,000(even though they do calls).
During residency the figure almost doubles in favour of docs.

The payslips are not secret or classified documents.

Whattttttttt.dude u are a liar.a very big one.i did internship too bro,200keducate ur self nd stop embarrassing urself.pls show us the payslips sir

YourHealthlabs: It will be unfair to use just one state as a prototype as needs and demands differ from state to state. An average national wage will suffice.

The relativity of resident/Pharmacists etc salary does not favour residents nationally in the U.S.

In the few states where it does it is not as high as 300% which is what is obtainable in Nigeria.

In Nigeria residents earn the total cummulative salaries of a pharmacist+Scientist-Nurse. It is not justifiable.

Do u hv proof for Wat ur saying sir?that residents in nigeria make cumulative salaries of a pharmacist,scientist nd a matron.because den individually dey ll be making around 90k each which is a big fat lie.a friend just finished internship in physio,it was den I realised d difference between an intern doc nd physio is like 30k.wen intern docs work longer dn physio.
Please stop misleading people by making up figures!!!300percent,i wish!
Refer ur self to CONMESS,conhess etc u ll be shocked.And stop making up statistics to suit ur argument.Holla if u need d documents,u clearly dunno about wages.

Smooth278: Pls can you use the same source for all your links... same source and same state; I'm sure if you do that some issues will be resolved..
Degree nurse http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=degree+nurse&l1=florida

Pharmacist http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=pharmacist&l1=florida

Physiotherapist http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=Physiotherapist&l1=florida

Laboratory scientist http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=laboratory+scientist&l1=florida

Resident doctor http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=resident+doctor&l1=florida

This is a much better comparison using the same site and the same state... shalom

Help me tell him oo.
look at it like dis in a very simple way.Nurses and pharms bla bla,usually work less hours Dan docs,@least u ll agree with me on dat.dere z no way an employer will pay nurses nd Co more dn docs who work longer hours.its that simple.Then again I agree with u US residents(only US),"might" be paid lesser depending on how long nurses and Co work and where(residents hv a maximum number of hours dey work in US,80hrs/week) and it's d norm in nigeria too,i knw matrons earn more dn residents for sure.

Slimchy09: Am nt ur 'broda'... And i retain the opinion dt nma's demands are selfish and egoistical. Quote me however u like... It wont change the honest truth.
G'nyt

Oh really didn't know u were a chick,unfortunately ur opinion doesn't amount to a pinch of salt.sweetdreams

eaglechild: Those clamouring to become consultants should please look at the way residency program is structured.

I hope they realise that they will need to do the following.

Establish colleges for different fields.

Establish faculties for different subspecialties.

Have trained "consultants" in different subspecialties.

Cease to become permanent members of staff of hospitals, and have their appointment terminated at the time of expiration of the program.

Undergo training a minimum of 4 years equivalent to at least a post PhD.(almost impossible given that their first degrees are not at par with MBBS). Involving novel clinical research.

Be ready to have their appointments terminated if they fail to pass college exams.
This is not Wat johesu wants,dey want to become consultants because dey v sat in one place for years.thats not how it's done.

Slimchy09: 4gt abt what i said wt CNO..its irrelevant...but u carefully sidestepped other units forcefully headed by doctors

schizo is a pysch problem...not ur regular case. Am talking abt lab tests and routine procedures so dnt give me crap like u can function effectively without the help of other health professionals.
Adminstrative issues is one thing...going on strike and denying patients access to medical care jus because u want to lord it over other health professionals in a long-standing battle as old as the medical profession itself speaks volumes of where ur ideals and morals lies...

My broda,i hereby give up on u, U no go kuku hear.i wasn't arguing,i was educating you.if u think schizophrenia is nt routine,tell dt to psychiatrists

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Slimchy09: i used CNO...as a plain example...in reality, what abt radiography and lab units...who heads them?

Secondly...u cannot give a definitive diagnosis without proper medical lab tests...cos ur medical suspicions are simply conjectures and never used as a basis for treatment in a 'proper' setting.

Thirdly...i got my facts straight. I jus didnt feel like typing them all..but since u are challenging my source, let me indulge you.

But firstly...lemme ask u this... The major focus of your strike...Is it honestly patient-focussed or adminstrative control-focussed

Am sure u dunno much abt how federal hospitals are run.u used a plain example dt was wrong.nd yes u cn diagnose some ailments wdaot lab tests,u need it to confirm ur diagnosis in others.if u still wanna argue dat kindly tell me the definitive lab diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia nd tests to distinguish it from other types,dont sweat,there is none.
Thirdly,anything dt is hospital admin focused is patient focused.d hospital is Dere for patients bro,so nma's cause is administered focused nd hence patient focused.

armadeo: the bolded shows you shouldn't have commented.

Lol.lets just correct dese stuffs so people who read dem don't just belive dem blindly. some people dunno which is which.

Slimchy09: In my opinion...NMA demands is just a truckload of crap. Its nt even patient-focussed...just adminstrative battle between them and JOHESU. So, its the patient that will suffer in this whole brouhaha...and they are jus too greedy to see that.

For starters...what the heck is a Surgeon General of the Federatn and hw does it better the lives of patients...if nt that its simply a political position and one more bragging claim over other health professionals

Secondly, why are the fighting to head over all the units in the hospital. Imagine a doctor that just graduated and did masters in maybe...say Nursing, would come and be the Chief Nursing Officer in a unit that has matrons with over 25years experience...imagine the disparity.

I think the major reason why there is so much decay in the health sector is because all the units have always been headed by medical consultants that are ill-trained for the field they are heading. Let the Nurses, lab scientists other health workers man their own unit if they are duly qualified to do so.

NMA cant survive on their own and neither can JOHESU. What is a doctor without a lab test result...NATIVE DOCTOR.

They should stop all this admistrative war and put aside all ego to work together for the benefit of the patients...which is their primary purpose of being health workers.

OK let's start from here,doctors don't become chief nursing officers!!it's solely reserved for nurses. Secondly not all ailments require tests in fact a good doctor should be able to get a diagnosis from just talking to u nd examining u. 3rdly doctors r not fightg to head all units in the hospital,cos dey don't nd wont. Soo pls read nd understand d info well wherever u got it from.#peace