₦airaland Forum

phantomm: in nigeria right now the senior nurses earn far higher than resident doctors. let the truth be told.

I dunno why dey just lie plainly.what shall we gain from lies.dey say anything in d name of hate.imagine pharm akintayo saying consultants take home 2million naija monthly.that ll be nice but it's nowhere near that

Peaceworld: This is how your association is trying to deceive everybody...nobody is trying to usurp your role as team leader of the medical team. Nobody. Stop spreading that fallacy. And a general ward round is an important aspect of patient care. Get enlightened. There are some issues the doctor might overlook in a patient's care. That's what a general ward round addresses. Because you think a patient doesn't need a physiotherapist doesn't mean you'll always be right. There lies the problem. No one profession knows it all. Your 'thinking' that this is the case, that a patient can do without any other professional could be wrong at some point. No member of the health team is an island. TRUE. If a doctor will be the one deciding when every other team member comes into patient care, then which team is he leading?

So who should decide when other members come in.lets use a case of someone that presented to the emergency room with stroke.dat person is admitted by d doc on call,resuscitated.now dt doc decides wen he needs CAT scan(radiology),blood analysis(labs),drugs(pharms),regular turng,odas(nursing) nd den rehabilitation(physio),in some cases psychiatrists.not all patients need all dese people,so it's d doc that dictates wen every oda person comes in.#teamwork led by d doc.Our problem is that we r not working as a team,becos we think someone is superior nd one is inferior.

YourHealthlabs: I agree that people are paid according to what they do, but i'll advise you get a copy of the Health Civil service scheme and point out where it says that Scientists, Pharmacists and Nurses can not become Directors of their directorates.


You keep harping on SALARIES. Be informed that Resident and Intern physicians in the US, UK, and Canada are paid far lower than established Scientists, pharmacists, Nurse and physios but in Nigeria they earn almost triple of a Consultant physiotherapists salary. How are you guys addressing that warped relativity?. Nigeria is the only country where Intern and Resident docs routinely threaten the Nigerian patients and the Government that pays their school fees and salaries as doctors-in-training.

NMA since the days of Dr Ransome-kuti( an NMA member) set the precedence of "grab-all-you-can-and-interfere-with-others" including special plate numbers, special road like they are asking for today. etc

If the Scientist also begin to ask for same because we need to "clear road for him" as to rushes to the emergency blood bank to cross-match safe blood and save accident victims, why whine when others seek to toe your line? Afterall "you lead others follow"

Proof??
Well nurses on average get £23k in d UK nd nd residents about £38k-63k

http://www.hcldoctors.com/job/resident-medical-officers-uk--jobid-jb-rmo-uk

http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Registered_Nurse_(RN)/Salary

Well it's a Lil higher in the United states.but it's not higher than doctors pay bro.

Median salary for RN's in US is $65k,that of residents, best paid 10percent earn more Dan $95k,lower 10 percent gets less than $45k

http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/registered-nurse/salary

Yes residents may earn lower $45k-70k depending on ur postgraduate year but as soon as u become a consultant.u earn from $180k-500k even more,anesthesiology ns surgery are the highest paying jobs in US,dey earn more Dan obama(basic salary of course)

http://www.myplan.com/careers/top-ten/highest-paying.php

eaglechild: Those clamouring to become consultants should please look at the way residency program is structured.

I hope they realise that they will need to do the following.

Establish colleges for different fields.

Establish faculties for different subspecialties.

Have trained "consultants" in different subspecialties.

Cease to become permanent members of staff of hospitals, and have their appointment terminated at the time of expiration of the program.

Undergo training a minimum of 4 years equivalent to at least a post PhD.(almost impossible given that their first degrees are not at par with MBBS). Involving novel clinical research.

Be ready to have their appointments terminated if they fail to pass college exams.

Not dey don't want dis.dey just wanna be consultants after sitting in one place for soo long

saxywale: Sorry i misunderstood you. I never said there was anything wrong with naija qualifications, atleast my first degree and my wife's Bpharm are from naija. What i was trying to say is that, it's not as easy as the other poster before you was trying to portray i.e naija doctors are being poached by Advanced countries.


Those Nigerian doctors practicing in 1st world countries are not just Nigerian doctors but the "1st class ones" among them. Those qualifying exams are not rice and beans.

Truedat!but the thing is if u could make final MB exam,u cn make USMLE with the right preps,u don't hv to be d best in ur class.u jst hv to get it right.

phantomxxx: if you like be a distinction candidate from nigeria,you must write and pass the licensing exams of foreign countries to practice there.no arguement there.'re-training' as you put is a repeat RESIDENCY TRAINING. NOT repeat basic medical training.

Abi oo.people just make assumptions wen dey don't understand something.u can't enter any country and start practising medicine without writing exams and passing them.no matter how good u are.in some states in US u require further certifications to practise even after being licensed in other states.it is medicine not nursing.its deir way of saying"hey,prove to us that u can treat our people"

YourHealthlabs: Yeah, i meant USMLE, not MCAT, i even wrote mentioned it in one of my previous post before mixing it up. USMLE it is. Mistake is mine. Apologies

Nigerians in the U.S are the one of most educated group of people in the U.S, but most Nigerians practicing there like my uncle schooled there and got his medical degree in the U.S. The chances are higher for Nigerians with American medical degree.

I still maintain that statistics, People with Non-US medical degrees have only 3% chance of practicing in the United States regardless of what country they hail from. There is no dearth of doctors in the United states as there is for Nurses and Clinical laboratory Scientists.

For some years now, Americans are right now offering Permanent resident status to Scientists who wish to immigrate and work in their medical laboratories. 30-40% of Clinical laboratory scientists in the U.S will retire in 10 -15 years..baby boomers. To fill the gaps that will be created in the future, they are aggressively recruiting internationally-trained Clinical laboratory scientists and Nurses and issuing green cards to the Professionals. Canada has same issues.

My assertions can be easily verified.

No dearth of docs? Theses websites as well as AAMC disagrees with you.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100546118

http://www.businessinsider.com/there-is-a-serious-shortage-of-primary-care-doctors-and-its-only-getting-worse-2013-9

Plus ur statistics are very wrong.This is last 2013 match process for international medical graduates


http://www.ecfmg.org/news/2013/03/21/img-performance-in-the-2013-match/#sthash.GBUA8AUN.dpbs


Read this and u ll realise shortage of nurses in US is a myth.43percent of registered nurses can't get a job in 6 months


http://thehealthcareblog.com/blog/2013/01/15/the-nursing-shortage-myth/

saxywale: .

Ur ryt Canada has a peculiarity.its almost impossible to work as a doc in Canada whether you r from Britain or liberia.its even difficult for us citizens,only less difficult

I have looked and looked and yet to see a reputable hospital in United States headed by a nurse or a pharmacist.Mayo clinic is headed by a neurologist Dr John noseworthy,MGH by Dr Peter slavin,a physician,Johns Hopkins by Dr Paul rothman,a rheumatologist.which hospitals are they always talking about?am curious.

YourHealthlabs: Sorry your last paragraph is another common fallacy you guys sold to the unsuspecting public.

A Nigerian-trained mbbs doctor won't be allowed touch an American patient. Never!. Even U.S medical Interns and Resident Docs are not allowed to treat patients, that's why they are paid far lower that Pharmacists, Nurses and Scientists in the States. Go check the relativity. American lives are too precious.

Now statistically, In the U.S the chances of a foreign-trained doctor passing MCAT and practicing in the U.S is a paltry 3% and that includes Britons, Indians, Italians, Nigerians, Filipinos and the rest of the world....all sharing a paltry 3%!. 97% is for U.S-trained Docs.

My uncle is a Nigerian-born US-trained doc practicing in the U.S.
Many Nigerian-born docs practicing there are US-trained. Nigerian-trained docs are only fit to be phlebotomists and lab specimen collectors in the U.S until they acquire more training and try passing MCAT.

Please let endeavour to tell the world the truth.

Let's not propagate lies because of hatred.foreign docs don't do mcat,thats one fallacy.i belive u meant usmle which is required by all doctors foreign trained or us-trained.number two is Nigerian docs practising abroad are more Dan d ones at home and of course naija trained.77% of black docs in us are Nigerians and dey r fully licensed to practise

http://www.punchng.com/health/77-of-black-doctors-in-us-are-nigerians-reps-committee/

YourHealthlabs: Thanks for the 'sweetheart'. Hope are a lady though.

Australia is a commonwealth country and they understand that M.B.B.S is not an International standard for Medical Doctors, that why they are replacing it M.D program. pls follow link

www.som.uq.edu.au/about/organisation/doctor-of-medicine-degree-(md)-at-uq.aspx

Let's say things the way they are.

Lol m not a lady oo.#nohomointended
D issue with MD and MBBS is that in those commonwealth countries that award MBBS,they hv a research degree sort of(MD) like PhD,that is no longer a first degree.MD in US and Canada is not d same as MD in Scotland I hope u know.MD in scotland is a research degree like PhD while in US it's d same as MBBS,a first degree.


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Medicine

Now back the situation on ground,i hate strikes.beliv me or not all doctors do.think abt it,after spending 7years in med skl,a year of internship,anoda year of youth corps,and at least anoda 6years postgraduate training to eventually become a consultant in wtaeva field u specialize.u cn neva find joy in not getting to treat patients because of strikes.now someone who either did a 2/3years diploma in nursing or did a B.Sc for 4/5 years,1 year MSc and 3 yrs of PhD wants to get the same benefits or even worse,wants to be your boss.m sure ur not gonna fold ur arms and watch all in the name of nobility.

YourHealthlabs: Don't compare Nigerian over-bloated, overrated Doctors with Physicians abroad. M.B.B.S is not an international standard for Physicians (Doctor of Medicine) is. Google it

I'm not trying to rubbish your Bachelors' degree, but we must enlighten the public with our pens, no matter whose ox is gored.

OK sweetheart.it all depends on your country,commonwealth countries use MBBS or MBChB as deir first medical degrees while MD is used in the United states.so yes they are all of international standards.As far as first degree is concerned MD,MBBS,MBChB,MBBCh,BMBS are all d same.difference is if u went to med skl in US,u get an MD,in ibadan u get MBBS,ife u get MBChB(if dey r still using that system)

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nouveaux: if you think I care about what you say of my monicker, then you are desperately sleeping on an okada.
Oh, yea, I am one and proud one at that. But wont allow any weed or pest to suffocate me out of jealousy. I wuld rather curb its excess at the budding stage. Face your calling and leave others to do theirs. No one is jealous of your miserable lives, we are content with our callings, capish? Ka gi ko? So ye e? Understood? Dont go and finish up ur exams, keep on ranting abt things u knw not about.

jealousybro u funny die.

aletheia: Another nurse don show. Una think say we no know wetin dey happen? E been get two types of nurses for naija. De ones wey go School of Nursing and Midwifery. Dis type na 3 credit for Waec dem be dey carry enter School of Nursing (English and Maths no even dey). Almost all of their senior matrons na dese type dem get before dem come change the requirement to 5 credit. The other type wey dey more recent na BSN Nurses. Dis ones been go university small, where Doctors come dey teach dem course like Anatomy, Physiology, and Biochemistry. The thing wey come surprise man for the thing be say na the 3 credit type nurse sabi practical work pass the B.SN ones wey just dey make noise for dis thread, so tay the 3 credit nurse go jus dey shake head for the B.SN ones say na grammar dem sabi blow, but to do the real nursing work, dem no fit.

Government wan helep all dem nurses upgrade from RN, das why dem give all dem deadline say make the ones wey no get B.SN try get B.SN, otherwise dem no go recognize dem as nurses again. Das why nurses full National Open University of Nigeria dey look for BSN.

he z actually more like a glorified drug dispenser

miriamP: u mean its time to sleep or watch tv? U ve nt got patients ma dear, u only wish so, and dats delusional

noo i mean uu,its tym for u to see ur patients.oh wait ur watching tv @ hme.its gd to be a nurse afterall.

miriamP: Oh? Now i know its all about d title. Hmmm what a reason to gloat, title Dats sickening.
I am a NURSE, a very proud one, and i will always remain one cos i chose to.
Docs ve their procedures and i ve mine and i do them, i dont crave theirs, i know theirs, and i will always do theirs and teach their new house officers whenever the need arises.

delusion.i beliv its time to see patients

miriamP: U ve been off ur pills for too long. Go for a refill

sweetie.plss stop beefing,it wont change ur title really.ur a nurse nd dat ll neva change.u wont get to do all dose doc-things u soo much crave.btw u still nid dt consult

pls pipo why argue with someone who thinks patients are more dan docs in Nigeria.Our beloved aux nurse is simply deluded nd needs to c a behavioural scientist/psychiatrist

miriamP: Hahaha, u ever see an auxillary in a teaching hospital? No need for much talks, walk into the nearest teaching hospital and make inquiries of my facts, then u shall know the truth and the truth shall set u free

bt really nurses are nurses,doctors are doctors nd pharms are pharms,dere z a reason dey all undergo diff training,in length nd in depth.u wanna be a judge,get a law degree,u wanna be a cmd,go to med skl nd try to finish.dts simple enuff

Jummy mine: i dont know whether to laugh or cry at your fallacy. doctors pulled out of johesu?! stop lying and pulling the wool over the eyes of the unsuspecting public. the reason why all of them have to join together againstbthe doctors is that if they go on strike individually, nobody will feel it. shows indeed how important they are for the system!
i dare the pharmacists to go on strike alone, and see if the hospital will stop functioning. same for the physiotherapists and even the labs. in my hospital, all of them have gone on strike individually for months, and the hospital was still running!
thats why they have to team up and gang up against the doctors, asking to be paid as thety are paid and given equal status, as if their jobs are the same. its all part of the nigerian mentally, most people are not actually proud of their jobs, nor satisfied with it. i dare say that many of these lab guys, physios and nurses actually wanted to study medicine, but couldnt for one reason or the other.
i wonr why the beef now?
as i earlier said, privatize, and everybody will know their real level in a private setting.

some things i read on nairaland makes me wanna cry.nma was neva part of johesu my dear.

miriamP: u mean a senior auxillary nurse? Cos d last time i checked in the teaching hospitals the new house officers are left at d mercy of the nurses to teach them how to set IV lines, dosage of prescription drugs, and every other thing an amateur needs to know until after some months they claim to have mastered the procedures and then begin to bite the hands that fed them. Oh tell me why their senior colleagues will leave a young man who has never handled a patient to be on call alone if not that they are assured of the capable hands of nurses to direct them? They ask u about everything they wana do and u really wonder if they will pay u xtra for been a teacher to a fresh MBBS grad. But if u chose to ignore its the patients that will suffer a lot of things ranging from being punctured 20 times while d H/O s trying to get a vein to taking an overdosage the young man/woman just prescribed. I still remember the faces of all those that learnt from me for that first few months, but thank God the God fearing ones still appreciate that till now.

madam auxillary,dts a beautiful piece if lie

[quote author=PT.Awal]What is the problem of this medical doctors Envy! Tey actually don't want any department in the health sector to progress. Why must they be the only set of people to become the CMDs in every general hospitals For crying out loud are they the only people in the health sector They cannot even reach a complete diagnosis of all conditions without Medical Lab and Radiographic examinations. They cannot completely treat every conditions without PHYSIOTHERAPISTS and NURSES. What are forming They want to be bossing every body in and around the hospital. Selfish / greedy people.[/quote]pls try and graduate from a medical skl first!!

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