₦airaland Forum

post 5.
Is Jesus Michael the Archangel?

Fourthly and finally, since all of the premises of the Jehovah’s Witness’s argument are wrong, there is no basis for their conclusion. The reality is that Jesus is not a created being, not even the most exalted created being. Rather:

“All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being” (John 1:3).

and:

“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of Your hands; They will perish, but You remain, And they all will become old like a garment, And like a mantle You will roll them up; Like a garment they will also be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not come to an end” (Hebrews 1:10-12).

No, Jesus is not Michael the Archangel. Jesus is Michael’s Lord and Maker. This is why an archangel will be Jesus’ herald and why the trumpet of God announces His coming.

end of this article.

post 4.
Is Micheal the only archangel?

Thirdly, it is a big leap to get from “an archangel” to “Michael the Archangel.” Jehovah’s Witnesses try to bridge this gap by claiming that Michael is the only archangel. The case for this is rather weak, however. Many major English translations indeed render 1 Thessalonians 4:16 as reading “the voice of THE archangel” rather than “the voice of AN archangel.” In Greek, however, there is no article here, which is why even the Jehovah’s Witness’s “New World Translation” goes with “an archangel” here. Trustworthy translations like the ESV and NKJV also use “an archangel,” and others like the NASB put “the” in italics so that it is clear to the reader that the word is not in Greek. 1 Thessalonians itself gives us no reason to think that there is only one archangel. Jehovah’s Witnesses, therefore, turn elsewhere to try and prove this point, claiming:

“God’s word refers to Michael ‘the archangel.’ (Jude 9) This term means ‘chief angel.’ Notice that Michael is called the archangel. This suggests that there is only one such angel. In fact, the term ‘archangel’ occurs in the Bible only in the singular, never in the plural” (What Does the Bible Really Teach, pg. 218).

This is rather horrific logic, and I honestly can’t believe they even published it. Let’s try applying this same argument to another biblical figure:

“God’s word refers to Alexander “the coppersmith.” (2 Timothy 4:14) Notice that Alexander is called the coppersmith. This suggests that there is only one such tradesman. In fact, the term ‘coppersmith’ occurs in the Bible only in the singular, never in the plural.”

You could write the same paragraph about “Simon the Zealot” (Luke 6:15, Acts 1:13) and a host of others, and the conclusion is just as laughable. So, too, with “Michael the Archangel.” The argument is absurd. Simon being designated “the zealot” obviously was not meant to deny the existence of other zealots. Calling Alexander “the coppersmith” does not negate the obvious fact that there were many other coppersmiths. Labeling Michael “the archangel” has nothing to do with the number of archangels that exist. Daniel 10:13 calls Michael “one of the chief princes,” clearly indicating that there are other angels of his rank. In the ancient world, people often had descriptors attached to their names. Thus, in addition to “Simon the Zealot,” we also see names like “Simon the Leper” (Matthew 26:6), “Simon the Tanner” (Acts 10:32), and “Simon, who was called Peter” (Matthew 4:18). This was a normal convention for referring to people by name, and Michael was no exception. There is no reason to think that Michael is the only archangel.

post 3.
Meaning and metaphor

Secondly, even if we accept that the “voice of an archangel” is meant to describe Jesus’ own voice, that would be a weird way of saying that Jesus is an archangel. If I were describing a man coming to greet me, I would not say that he “called out to me with the voice of a human being.” That would be awkward and entirely unhelpful. I might say that “his voice was that of a lion,” and you would get that he was speaking loudly, powerfully, boldly, perhaps even angrily. I might say that “he spoke with the voice of a nightingale,” and you would grasp that his voice was pleasant and his greeting was sweet to the ear. In neither of these examples, however, would you think that I was saying that the man literally was a lion or a nightingale. Such statements are clearly metaphors. I would not bother saying that a lion has the voice of a lion because that is obvious and useless. I would not say that a nightingale has the voice of a nightingale because that doesn’t say anything. Even if Paul was saying that Jesus will personally shout “with the voice of an archangel,” such a statement could only be a metaphor. Plus, think about what happens if you apply the Jehovah’s Witness logic consistently in this verse. If Jesus must be an archangel because His voice is the voice of an archangel, then He also must be God because His trumpet blast is the trumpet blast of God. Obviously, no Jehovah’s Witness would accept this logic as applied to the latter point, so why should they think it valid in the former? There is simply no logical way to read this passage as actually calling Jesus an archangel.

post 2.
The voice of an archangel?

First, the most obvious reading is not necessarily that the “voice of an archangel” is Jesus’ own voice. It is merely one of several sounds said to accompany Jesus’ second coming. That a trumpet blowing and a voice crying out mark Jesus’ decent sounds more like the approach of a king who is being announced by a herald. The fact that Jesus is King is not in dispute. Even Jehovah’s Witnesses accept this. For a King to be coming with an archangel serving Him as His herald and for that King to be further announced by the blast of the “trumpet of God,” however, would seem to make Jesus someone much greater than Michael.

from Carm dot org

this not long, easy to read article is 5 posts

post 1.
Does 1 Thessalonians 4:16 prove that Jesus is Michael the Archangel?

Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that Jesus is Michael the Archangel, whom they claim was God’s first creation and the highest of all the “spirit creatures,” or angelic beings. To argue for this teaching, they point to 1 Thessalonians 4:16, which says:

“For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.”

While it is not immediately apparent to most readers how this verse could mean that Jesus is Michael the Archangel, their argument from this passage goes something like this:

1. Jesus’ voice is the voice of an archangel
2. Jesus, therefore, is an archangel
3. Michael is the only archangel
4. Therefore, Jesus is Michael
Each of these points has inherent flaws worth addressing.

MaxInDHouse: Do you agree that without Michael nothing was created?

Emusan:
No!

correct, and very easy to answer

Emusan: Do you agree that without Jesus NOTHING was CREATED?

and to this plain and clear Jehovah's Truth, fearful mad max cannot answer

MaxinDHouse:
rev 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.




Jehovah says; without The Word/Jesus Christ nothing was created
false jw maxindhouse says; without michael nothing was created

but then, mad max also says; Jehovah doesn't know it all

no one is more puffed up than false jw mad max
Pro 16:5  Everyone who is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD;

mad max you are a abomination to Jehovah < fact

cornelboy:

lost false jw cornyboy

you satan's mob have no honest comeback, all you have is emoticons and silly pictures

Jehovah says:
Pro_26:11  Like a dog that returns to its vomit Is a fool who repeats his folly
Rev_20:15  And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire

achorladey:
I was about to post about that the fact that Max loves that self glorification. It is a pity he got burnt tonight.


The same person that said I yarn offpoint equally told him I am above him. He always look for every means to have something to hold against those who don't dance to his tune in order to drag them into his madness and insanities peddling on Nairaland

Jehovah says puffed up mad max is an abomination to HIM:
Pro 16:5 Everyone who is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD;

cornelboy:
Bot

ecc_7:6  For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, So is the laughter of the fool


lost false jw cornyboy

u never ending going against Jehovah, of course, who says you are a fool repeating your folly:

Pro_26:11  Like a dog that returns to its vomit Is a fool who repeats his folly

Rev_20:15  And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire

cornelboy:
Bot

lost false jw cornyboy

of course u r never ending going against Jehovah who says you are a fool repeating your folly:

Pro_26:11  Like a dog that returns to its vomit Is a fool who repeats his folly
Rev_20:15  And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire

MaxInDHouse:
Michael is the Archangel firstborn of all creations!

Col 1:15  He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

lost false jw mad max
Jehovah'word is speaking about Jesus Christ where is said: "image of the invisible God" and "the firstborn of all creation"

but you oh lost one, very often love to put yourself against Jehovah and HIS word:

Mat 7:15  Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 
Rev_20:15  And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire

cornelboy:
Lol
You don come support your second moniker

ecc_7:6  For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, So is the laughter of the fool


lost false jw cornyboy
your habitual lies and paranoia are of the devil, of course:

Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. WHENEVER HE SPEAKS A LIE, THAT IS HIS NATURAL WAY OF SPEAKING, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

rev 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

no Christian likes a liar, one of the first things we come to know as Christians is that Jesus is the Truth:
Joh_14:6  Jesus *said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
meaning Jesus is not a deceiver, Jesus didn't deceive thomas, Jesus told thomas the truth:

Joh 20:27  Then He *said to Thomas, "Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing."
Jesus showed thomas that it was truly Him, that it was truly His body raised from death,
false jw mad max said Jesus deceived thomas, false jw's say; it was a borrowed body with the same wounds as Jesus body has

Pro 14:5  A trustworthy witness will not lie, But a false witness utters lies.

false jw's:
Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. WHENEVER HE SPEAKS A LIE, THAT IS HIS NATURAL WAY OF SPEAKING, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

lost false jw mad max, i remember you saying that u so called Jehovah's witnesses are not Christians
i for one agree with you,

but another false jw said: i'm a Christian, contradicting you,
so you are not all of the same line of thought at all, are you

false jw's:
Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. WHENEVER HE SPEAKS A LIE, THAT IS HIS NATURAL WAY OF SPEAKING, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

MaxInDHouse:
Ó ṣì ń rìn ẹ́ ni kòì tíì jáẹ jẹ!
Jesus is the same as Archangel Michael!

lost false jw mad max

another difference between Christians and u so called Jehovah's witnesses is:
Christians say what Jehovah's word made clear in john 1:14 "Jesus is the same as The Word"

u false jw's change what Jehovah's word made clear in john 1:14 "Jesus is the same as Archangel Michael"

Pro 30:6 Do not add to His words Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.
Pro 14:5 A trustworthy witness will not lie, But a false witness utters lies.

MaxInDHouse:
Archangel Michael= The angel of the Lord= Jesus Christ
If anyone wants to correct the OP you are free to do so at least if you don't agree with the fact that Michael is the angel of the Lord the OP has stated clearly that Jesus is the angel of the Lord.
Oya make una beat am say he call Jesus angel!

ecc_7:6  For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, So is the laughter of the fool

lost false jw mad max

you laugh at Jehovah's truth that i posted, of course, and run from what is actually said, of course:

rev 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

MaxInDHouse:

ecc_7:6  For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, So is the laughter of the fool


lost false jw mad max
if i want to reply to op or not that will be nothing to do with you

you was shown Jehovah made it clear that;" Jesus is the same as the Word"
and your reply to Jehovah's truth is a fool laughing emoticon


Rev_20:15  And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire

MaxInDHouse:

ecc_7:6  For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, So is the laughter of the fool

lost false jw mad max
my post was Jehovah's truth which you cannot dispute, https://www.nairaland.com/8358733/why-christ-angel-lord/4#134431101
and you a lost fool laughs at Jehovah's truth, of course:

Rev_20:15  And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire


false jw, you was shown Jehovah made it clear that; Jesus is the same as the Word
and your reply to Jehovah's truth is a fool laughing emoticon

another difference between Christians and so called Jehovah's witnesses is:
Christians say what Jehovah's word made clear in john 1:14 "Jesus is the same as The Word"

false jw's change what Jehovah's word made clear in john 1:14 "Jesus is the same as Archangel Michael"

Pro 30:6  Do not add to His words Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar. 
Pro 14:5  A trustworthy witness will not lie, But a false witness utters lies.

MaxInDHouse: Ó ṣì ń rìn ẹ́ ni kòì tíì jáẹ jẹ!
Jesus is the same as Archangel Michael!

achorladey:
That's why after I ensured he exhausted all his military intelligence in insulting people as one of Jehovah's Witnesses I bring to his reminder that his brains his filled with madness and insanities peddling added with lies and manipulations.

Now he has to avoid me by all means to run away from the consequences of his actions in the past.

One of the fellow member of the religious organization he belongs said all of those captured in the images attached

In the land of Jehovah's Witnesses being an apostate is the highest of the offence a member can be. It is as good as being seen as a DEVIL. Imagine his fellow brother saying he is ten times worst than an apostate.

i remember false jw mad max, years ago posting a picture of a woman
similar to person below, and mocking her because of her situation in life,
because she is poor and struggling
i bet Jesus would have said something like this about her:
"look at this poor woman who satan has kept in poverty all these years"

achorladey:
Maybe we should start with him referring to himself as worst fool with confirmation

Or where is fellow Jehovah's Witness referred to him as being worst than those they love to call apostates

false jw mad max loves quoting all of those praising him, more than he loves praises about Jehovah,
i haven't seen him quoting peoples praises of Jehovah

MaxInDHouse:
On the other thread you said you want to post comments against MaxInDHouse but it's like shame is holding you back as you know that such comments are not from reputable people but deluded folks like you!
Oya Mr Gotham post comments against these ones:
Shame on those saying GOOD is BAD! Isaiah 5:20

lost false jw mad max
your saying Jesus deceived thomas is not good, it is bad
your saying Jehovah is not Almighty is not good, it is bad
your saying Jehovah doesn't know it all is not good, it is bad

SeniorMan715: The way you explain and answer questions, sometimes i wonder if truly you are a human or an angel. You know everything.

false jw, you truly love your fellow mad men praising you

Pro 16:5 Everyone who is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD;

MaxInDHouse:
Most of you will only rush to threads that someone speaks against Jehovah's Witnesses.
Here is an opportunity for you to defend your beliefs:
https://www.nairaland.com/8360201/jesus-lied
Because by the time i speak with him and he begin to reason with the truth you people will start crying o!

lost false jw mad max
you would go to a thread to defend that Jesus lied
while you yourself said Jesus lied/deceived thomas, oh false accuser like the devil:

Rev_12:10  Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night.

false jw, you are very two minded, aren't you
James 1:8
A double minded man is unstable in all his ways

MaxInDHouse:
Have gotten a verse that explicitly says "Jesus is the word of God"?

oh duh most dum and lost false jw mad max

these verses show that Jesus is the word of God:
Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 
Joh 1:2  He was in the beginning with God. 

Joh 1:14  And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
^^ only a know nothing fool or antichrist or atheist etc. would deny that is referring to Jesus


in the flesh He was called Jesus not michael
and when He returned to heaven He is again called "The Word of God" not michael
Rev 19:13  He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.


1Co 14:33  For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints
Pro 14:5  A trustworthy witness will not lie, But a false witness utters lies.

MaxInDHouse:
So there is no verse in support of many Archangels.
Thanks for your time!

lost false jw mad max
yes there is a verse in support of many archangels:
Dan_10:13  "But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia.

even you yourself in your confused words showed that prince = angel, so of course chief prince = archangel
of which michael is one of

MaxInDHouse:
chief prince is used for many angels

MaxInDHouse:
chief prince is used for many angels

lost false jw mad max
yes "chief princes is used for many angels"
so michael is "one of the chief princes/chief angels",

that's what Christians have been saying:
Dan 10:13  "But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia.

false jw, your confused twisting didn't work for you there
1Co 14:33  For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints

cornelboy:
Achorladey 😹😹

ecc_7:6  For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, So is the laughter of the fool

lost false jw cornyboy, you people are paranoid as hell, of course:
rev 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

MaxInDHouse:
Q 5. What reasons do we have to respect Jehovah?
Jehovah is almighty; he has limitless power. His profound wisdom is clearly evident in the things he has made. He is the Source of our life and the Sustainer of it. He is loyal. Everything he does succeeds, and he always keeps his promises. Though we have good reasons to respect our heavenly Father. But Jehovah does more than earn our respect—he wins our love!

lost false jw mad max

you people teach out of both sides of your mouth
you have taught that; Jehovah is not all powerful/not Almighty

you have also taught that Jehovah doesn't know it all

Mat 7:15  Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 
Mat 7:16  You will know them by their fruits.

their fruits: hypocrisy, lies, blasphemy, paranoia, puffed up pride, etc.etc.etc.

achorladey:
That's the delusion that exist in the midst of that religious organization. They love pointing fingers at others and accusing others of the very same thing they champion

yes that is true, that's one of their delusions

if russia invaded usa and took california, arizona, new mexico, and texas,
would president trump make a peace deal with russia allowing them to keep those states

i don't think so, but president trump would allow russia in a peace deal to keep the land they have captured from ukraine

MaxInDHouse:
We can bring glory to Jehovah by telling others about his awesome power and his heartwarming qualities. We also glorify God when we give him credit for things we accomplish in his strength.

lost false jw mad max

i remember you teaching that Jehovah is not Almighty/not all powerful

u big fraud:
Mat 7:15  Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

MaxInDHouse: Many people today are self-absorbed they go to great lengths on social media to draw attention to themselves and to their accomplishments!

achorladey:
Like MaxInDHouse....

we are the only one doing Jehovah’s will all over the earth

We are the only peaceful, loving, joyful worshippers on earth

We are the only ones going from door to door preaching

We are the only one that don't go to war

self absorbed lost false jw mad max when he is criticising, he is talking about himself,
them people so dum