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PoliticsRe: Apart From War Against Fuel Subsidy, Nigerians Need To Look Closer At Themsleves by karfe(m): 6:50pm On Jan 13, 2012
zomby:
THE PROBLEM IS MUCH MORE THAN JUST FUEL SUBSIDY.
NIGERIANS NEED TO LOOK IN THE MIRROR AND TRY TO CHANGE THEIR WAYS FROM A THRU Z IN EVERYTHING WE DO.
99% OF THE PROTESTERS TODAY WOULD STEAL MORE THAN OBASANJO IF THEY'RE GIVEN THE SAME OPPORTUNITY TOMORROW. AND THIS IS WHERE NIGERIANS ARE DIFFERENT FROM EGYPTIANS, LIBYANS OR SYRIANS, AND THE REAL REASON WHY THIS PROTEST MAY NOT EVEN HOLD A BUCKET OF WATER.
WE MUST FIRST CHECK OURSELVES AND CHANGE OUR ATTITUDE TOWARD EACH OTHER, WEALTH AND MATERIAL THINGS. THEN WE CAN EXPECT THE CHANGE WE DESERVE.
THE LEADERS CAN ONLY BE AS GOOD AS THE FOLLOWERS.
Gbam!!
PoliticsRe: Name 5 People That Should Not Be In Govt by karfe(m): 6:11pm On Jan 13, 2012
kesoyin:
all adults above 50yrs
Nice one grin

But even those below 50 years are no better. My conclusion from what has been happening this week is that Nigerian leaders are not reliable only because our society is one that does not demand accountability
PoliticsRe: Ribadu: Protests A Divine Deal To End Corruption. by karfe(m): 6:08pm On Jan 13, 2012
We will need more drastic measures than the current protests to begin any enduring assault on corruption, and it will be a long process due to so many years of living without questioning corrupt authority in our public and private lives
PoliticsRe: Reason Why Nigeria May Not Survive As A Nation. by karfe(m): 6:03pm On Jan 13, 2012
Indeed we did not have a NATIONAL leader when we started

Sardauna - Sokoto caliphate - centric - but I admired his charisma with the North, even though he gave them a wrong view of many things
Awolowo - Oduduwa centric - but I admired his excellent development economics foresight
Azikiwe - Afro-centric: Funny but he just seemed to want the emancipation of Africans from imperialists
PoliticsRe: Pat Utomi Live On Channels Tv by karfe(m): 5:48pm On Jan 13, 2012
We have intelligent people in abundance but I wish we could add a bit of SINCERITY with it
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op): 3:14am On Jan 13, 2012
ekt_bear:
you'll never get completely clean borders
ekt_bear:
overall goal of a relatively harmonious region
Thanks. You expressed this much better than me especially with these two lines! smiley
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op): 2:36am On Jan 13, 2012
DRANOEL:
ever asked yourself why the willinks report concerning northern minorities didnt work at all?
it was for the same reason of bundling every northern minority regardless of "region" into the middle belt. off course the end result was a map that extended up north dividing it in a funny way. at the end it wasn't difficult for the hausa/fulani to kick against it!
the closest thing to a MB region is the north central zone. it just needs a bit of adjusting
Please adjust the NC zone in a more workable arrangement and let us see your proposal so that others and I can comment
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op): 2:34am On Jan 13, 2012
DRANOEL:
let me give you a classic example. they is a tribe called etulo in benue state,they are right in the middle of tivland and number about 20,000. etulos are actually cousins of the idoma but because of their size and geographical location they have adapted to tivland and are considered tiv!
the point i'm trying to make is simple,if you consider those little ethnic groups up north with their land MB,then you should also consider the kanuris in lafia(and the land)  core north
Now you are beginning to understand me. I know the Etulo in Katsina-Ala. Of course they are distantly related to Idomas, but today they have been tiv-ized, if there is any word like that. They have blended in with the tiv and bear tiv names. Instances of these abound. Maguzawa are hausa who were still practising their traditional religion after the jihad. Today, some of them have become christian. That will not make me include them in Middle belt

If you see posts from our fellow posters, you will read about Jarawa, Warjawa, in Bauchi State. These guys are so into the hausa culture that it would be meaning less including them in MB. There are several minorites in Yobe who have become hausanized. I did not include them. Do you know these people have christians among them?  For the Kanuri you mentioned in Lafia hardly speak any Kanuri again! I stand to be corrected. Maybe I am wrong

Bottom line is this: I believe a huge part of our national crisis is due to our structure. Even before independence, it was argued that the Northern region was 75% in area and over 50% in population of the country. Mine is an attempt to collate what I can regarding the Middle Belt cause, and also add my personal convictions. I truly value your opinion and I wish we could get the opinions of others. I believe we all want Nigeria to grow. Remember, its just an opinion. You can chose to correct information I tried to give in a simple form
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op): 2:20am On Jan 13, 2012
alj harem:
I am not against forming middle belt. I have followed the thread from the beginning and I must say middle belt is free to do whatever they want already ( every group has right to self determination). Goodluck brother at the end of the day we are still Nigerians. smiley
Thanks, brother. Just remember I do not seek a personal kingdom or a war front against the HFK. I was born and schooled there and belive they are probably the simplest people to get along with but historical and contemporary events have made me consider the best option that will benefit all Nigerians, including peoples from the Far North. Meanwhile, I think MBelters are the most accommodating people in Nigeria cheesy
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op):
DRANOEL:
talking about the niger delta, it seems you are not getting me.
you don't see some one from ogun being referred to as nigerdeltan neither do you see one from kogi being called nigerdeltan! so why would you pick some one from kebbi or borno simply because he's minority and christian and then refer to him as MB?
I tried to attached the Willink report document but it was too large. Please check the internet for a copy. Tell me when you review, although you may have gone through it before. [b]Flipside[/b]is from Southern Borno. He can send a disclaimer to all I have written but I have not seen it yet, He was only concerned about religious tolerance in such a region and a send a very long explanation. I also tried to tell him, and I am repeating to you again, its not simply about merging of christian groups, but it appears I am unable to convince you
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op): 2:05am On Jan 13, 2012
DRANOEL:
@karfe
your concept of the middle belt is all wrong!
you are trying to draw all northen minorities into a fairy tale region.
first off'as the name states "middle belt" i.e nigeria's central belt! that means abuja,plateau,nasarawa,kogi,benue. the fact that someone is a minority or christian up north doesn't make him a middle belter.
From my understanding, a belt has to go round your whole waist! cheesy

But seriously, I am not the inventor of this idea. You may want to check the original idea as proposed by UMBC before the Willink Commission in 1958. I can send you a copy. Proper anthropological studies were carried out and are reported. I am presenting my own understanding of this region and how it can be actualized. I do not know if you are from this region. Remember where we come from may probably guide our understanding or acceptance of the idea. I wish persons from all the places I included would come to this thread and lay a disclaimer to being included
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op): 1:58am On Jan 13, 2012
alj harem:
@Karfe

I am glad you have told naijaking the truth. The eastern part of kogi to north-western part of anambra are Igala speaking people. NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. We can look at the middle belt and say it is majority Nupe, Jukun, Igala, Yoruba, Fulani, Kanuri and yes even Hausa because of Niger state etc.

Now the point is these places we can call North central. Remember it is still the north geographically and nothing would change that. All that Odua, etc republic is not really the case now. Already majority of the leaders from the northern geopolitical zone are from the middle belt (from the beginning of our independence) Thus we can say no one is under any one right ? Thus I don't see the struggle of the separate identity.
I would advise you go through the whole thread and / or speak with those from the regions I proposed
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op): 1:53am On Jan 13, 2012
DRANOEL:
@karfe

i didn't reduce the MB, i only stated whats visible. everywhere in the world you find smaller groups in the midst of larger ones. as for the small minority tribes in the core north you can't call them MB simply because they are christians.infact like earlier stated if they should be a separation then it should be the east central MB(igala,tiv,idoma)! the other category i.e s/kaduna,plateau,nasarawa etc could be separated simply based on recent religious instability not affirnity!
I believe you still understate the extent of this MB ideology especially in states like S/ Kaduna and Plateau. I feel by splitting the MB further you try to discredit the idea of having anything but a monolithic north which for me is not really workable based on present realities.

If I extend you understanding down south, the NIGER DELTA REGION would be too heterogeneous to be one autonomous territory, and you would split it between EDO, IJAW and CALABAR areas as a minimum. If you try to do this, the end result may be coming back to the 36 non-viable states we have today. and which we must restructure

PS. Lagos is viable at least
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op): 1:45am On Jan 13, 2012
chima12:
I think part of southern bauchi and southern gombe could me merged together to form a new state in the middle belt.
Southern kaduna should have a state of their own in the middle belt.
The following states especially need to forge a common political identity
-plateau
-nasarawa
-taraba
-adamawa
-southern kaduna
I agree with you that the listed states have a lot in common within the larger middle belt. I however do not agree that the MB areas in Bauchi and Gombe are large enough to form another state.
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op): 1:41am On Jan 13, 2012
Flipside has raised several concerns about the importance of RELIGION in regional self-determination for the MIDDLE BELT and CORE NORTH and I would like to address them to the best of my ability:

First of all, I was not quite sure of your stand as a Southern Borno person. But based on your reaction and reading between the lines, If you are a BWALA, you, as well as the GADZAMAS, MSHELIAS, MSHELBWALAS, MALGWIS, etc, seem to consider yourself a MB person. Even if you bear a Hausa name and you are from this region, whether you are christian or Muslim would not change this view for me, except if your fellow Southern Borno people are of a different opinion

Secondly, it appears your main concerns are with BEROM and SOUTHERN KADUNA. You have based your reaction to how you would fare in the hands of these two peoples. But you have forgotten their reactions are usually based on their unfortunate experiences with HAUSA people, not Northern Muslims generally. However, in a situation of war or the struggle to survive in a place like Nigeria, it is likely that anyone with a religious or ethnic affinity with the Hausas is likely to suffer dire consequences.

It is okay to negotiate with the HAUSA on how to live. The IGBO, YORUBA and NIGER DELTA have called for a conference several times to SINCERELY discuss the bases for our existence. However, I believe that if you are going to discuss anything, your region, area or ethnicity must have a previously agreed cause of action to push forward for negotiation. That was why I felt this thread was important. You do not form an opinion when you reach the discussion table. For your information, the IGBO, YORUBA and NIGER DELTA at least have drafts or an unclear picture of what to discuss when such events take place. Those of us in the upper part of the country must not be left out. PLEASE, GIVE YOUR VIEW ON HOW THE COUNTRY SHOULD BE STRUCTURED AND HOW THE VARIOUS RELIGIONS MAY AGREE TO LIVE TOGETHER IN PEACE. Before we go to this negotiating table, we need to know whether you are with us or not so that we can articulate our stand together

I have said several times before on this thread that Christianity can not be the basis for the MIDDLE BELT because her social space is filled with people from all religions and even the HAUSA-FULANI and KANURI can be found in the MB. We can probably learn religious tolerance from the YORUBA, but it would be easier in a region autonomous from the HAUSA-FULANI. This is not to say I am against them, but I would like to say that it is much easier to relate and create a harmonious bloc in Nigeria free from the MAJOR groups. That was why I proposed that the KWARA / KOGI YORUBA should be moved to the main ODUDUWA bloc. Creation of a christian dominated Middle Belt zone is IMPOSSIBLE in my opinion

Seriously, provision of projects and federal appointees for the MB is not what we can dwell on. In Nigeria, apologists of government get recognized by dubious persons in power. This has however not translated into a healthy standard of living or a robust educational system  or good security for the people of MINNA, PANKSHIN and LANGTANG. The major projects sited are Kainji Dam, Ajaokuta Steel Company, Jos Steel Company. Where else could these companies have been located? The only major road is Lokoja-Abuja which is finally being given a look-in after many years. Several of these few projects have been abandoned. I used to know about a company in BIU called VEGFRU but I have not heard about it in ages. I do not know if it was a state or federal project but you make a point when you say there is not much federal presence

You say my 'agenda' goes beyond MINORITY RIGHTS and RELIGION. I agree totally with you. For me, what makes sense is a place where my children can live in peace and security, be able to come to BIU and ASKIRA for vacations on smooth 10-lane roads and enjoy economic prosperity while maintaining and developing strong moral and social values.

At the end of the day, all these crises, whether religious or ethnic, are because of humans fighting for resources in a country which does not yet have a stable polity. But we need an arrangements where these resources are properly harnessed for the common good and that is my personal mission. Not trying to sound like a saint, but I try to avoid political matters a lot and I only get interested when it is about the common good, not just for my people but also for neighbors I am going to live with
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op): 3:02pm On Jan 11, 2012
southern kaduna,plateau,nasarawa,taraba can all tag along'the difference btw these people is not much (including facial features) and they share a common boundary, niger can be incorporated with the larger north,benue,kogi,a small part of taraba,the tiv speaking part of cross rivers(bachave) can be grouped together. the remaining smaller tribes can remain with the north
I now understand you better. There is some kind of separation from the HFK (Arewa) in your proposal, but you reduced the MB drastically. Methinks the best option for the areas I listed is for some kind of UN referendum to allow the peoples there to chose between HFK and MB

By the way, you really understand the geography of your country. I wish there would be more like you in Nigeria. Funny though, the guy who wrote the article on the first page is called LEONARD cool
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op): 2:52pm On Jan 11, 2012
@ Flipside

Men, you really flipped!!

Okay, having seen my proposal and based on your experience and background, what would be a workable arrangement you can propose?

I am not the Federal Govt, and enforced roles and constitutions have never really been of much use to us. So I am not enforcing anything. But it is our responsibility as citizens to push forward ideas that would eventually benefit everyone. My education tells me to simplify issues at the start, and then delve into the rigorous analysis of separate parts

What I am gathering is that your parents are both from Southern Borno, Dad is Muslim and Mum is Christian. If you see what I wrote, I am not in the best position to conclude which side they should be. I based my conclusions on places I have lived and persons I have met, and of course literature I have read, which is perhaps not always accurate.

My interest is to see a workable federation based on healthy political units, hence my proposals. I am really not concerned about the religion of others as long as one's religion is able to allow other people to be who they want to be. If you feel Nigeria's political arrangement should be left the way it is, just say so. Although I would strongly disagree with you. Live and let live, bro,  wink
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op): 1:59pm On Jan 11, 2012
@ DRANOEL,

So what do you propose?

Thanks, guys. I hope we will see more views.
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op): 2:43am On Jan 11, 2012
edoyad:
@karfe, the traditional ruler of the Zuru people is known as Gomo. The present king, Sani Sami or something is Muslim and started brandishing the title of Emir so as to impress the people he was in cahoots with. Ebiras have a large Muslim population but their king has got his title hasn't he ?
The title of Emir is alien to Zurus, not that there's anything wrong with it.
Thanks, bro. We learn everyday. I think its the hausanization in action!

DanKan0:
@ Karfe is this proposed under Nigeria as federalsim or complete split?

if federalism what is wrong with the 6 zones now?
My take on the current 6 zones:

- It tries to sustain the North-South dichotomy by maintaining 3-3 regions for each, keeping North-Central, instead of Central for instance. These regions proposed use all the main cardinal points! smiley

- It tried to make all the regions with the same state (6) and failed woefully with the South East. Each natural region as I proposed should create it's own states as it deems fit, although the units for political representation should remain as they are currently i.e creating 200 states in your region should not mean sending 600 clowns to the senate!

- It does not recognize that some peoples would fall out of their natural cultural environment in these zones, thereby making compromise more difficult e.g Yoruba in Kwara trying to be PDP Chairman while the President is Yoruba. Of course, he was manipulated out. Anioma? South East? South South? Well,

For me the regions should be highly autonomous and federal. A complete split should be avoided as hostile neighbors may come out of it (if we are not there already!). However, if the regions are strongly autonomous, the central government has to be quite strong as well to avoid total fragmentation. That was why I proposed Lagos, PH, Kaduna and Abuja to be run by the Federal Government,
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op): 2:21am On Jan 11, 2012
The internal structure of the Middle Belt I propose is as follows:

ADAMAWA - Including the MB portions of Southern Gombe (Tangale / Waja)
TARABA
PLATEAU - Including the MB portions of Southern Bauchi (Sayawa)
GURARA - Southern Kaduna
KAINJI - Kontagora area of Niger, Borgu areas of Niger and Kwara, and Zuru area of Kebbi
NIGER - Nupe and Gbagyi areas of Niger, as well as the Nupe area of Kwara
NASARAWA
BENUE
KOGI - Current Kogi without the Yoruba areas

The Yoruba areas of Kwara and Kogi to combine (or not?) and be part of the ODUDUWA autonomous region together or separately

How una see am?!
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op): 2:09am On Jan 11, 2012
Having completed a SIMPLIFIED review of the complex MB area, here is my proposal (based on my limited knowledge of the rest of the country and how I feel the MIDDLE BELT will fit best with the rest):

5 AUTONOMOUS REGIONS:

AREWA (NORTH)
MIDDLE BELT (CENTRAL)
ALAIGBO (EAST)
ODUDUWA (WEST)
NIGER DELTA (SOUTH)

3 SPECIAL (OR FEDERAL-GOVERNMENT RUN) TERRITORIES:

LAGOS
PORT HARCOURT
KADUNA

1 FEDERAL CAPITAL TERRITORY - ABUJA
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op):
And, on we go to take a look at the REST and certainly not the least of the MIDDLE BELT area: wink

SOUTHERN KEBBI:

The people of the Zuru District (Dakarkari, et al) were once part of Kontagora Division in Niger province. I have no idea what motive led to them being transferred to Sokoto State instead of Niger State in 1976. Today, they are found in Kebbi State. They have an Emir but still retain sufficient cultural difference to be classified as a MB group. This group would fit better in Niger State (which is already getting quite large) or a new Kainji State in an autonomous MIDDLE BELT region

SOUTHERN BAUCHI:

The Sayawa people of Tafawa Balewa and Bogoro LGA's retain much of their cultural heritage and are constantly in a war to survive cultural and religious assimilation as has happened to the rest of Bauchi State. The other Southern Bauchi peoples who were once part of the MB area have since been properly Hausanized and are comfortable with their new status. I may be wrong however,  Transfer of the Sayawa to Plateau State would solve a lot of political problems

SOUTHERN GOMBE:

Due to strong hausanization, the only notable groups in this state that are of MB persuasion are the Tangale, Waja and a few other minority groups around, and south of, Gombe town. However, these groups are more prominent and have a much stronger say politically in Gombe State than, say, in Bauchi State. Transfer of these people to Adamawa State would be my option. However, I would like to see some argument for or against this option

SOUTHERN BORNO:

I cannot say for certain that the peoples of the area are of MB persuasion. However, my only reason is that this area was not part of the original Middle Belt State requested by the UMBC during the Willink hearings in 1958. Due to strong presence of non-Islamic peoples around Biu from the Bura, Marghi and a few other groups, an alternative identity is clearly identified. The peoples of this area have strongly fought for a Savannah State in the recent past. Even though the Muslim population is quite high, there is a clear difference between these peoples and the Kanuri to the North. In any case, it appears the entire population of this area is strongly resistant to Kanuri domination. I cannot say much about their relationship with Hausa-Fulani but I know Hausa and Fulfulde (Fulani language) are strongly spoken by these peoples

It is left to Southern Borno (and all other areas I mentioned earlier) to decide on this MB autonomy. To transfer to Adamawa?? To create Savannah State??

SOUTHERN KADUNA:

Even though this area is outside the North Central, it is, together with the Berom area of PLATEAU and Tiv area of BENUE, one of the strongest proponents for the MIDDLE BELT cause. The most prominent group within this area are the Bajju. The Kataf [/b]people are also quite well known due to obvious historical reasons

Originally, the MB southern area of Kaduna State was thought to have extended to Jaji, where the Command and Staff College on the Kaduna-Zaria road is located. However, after much 'compromise', the line of division has been pushed all the way down to the Kaduna river, dividing the City of Kaduna into two parts. This line of division may still need to be 'agreed' in the event of future boundary arrangements. The ten southern LGA's of this state have repeatedly requested for a [b]GURARA
state. The granting of this state will solve a lot of identity issues, and the entire country would be better for it
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op): 1:17am On Jan 11, 2012
Tsiya:
You are also understating the enimity between various ethnic groups in the middle belt. Most of these ethnic groups occupied the same narrow strip of land and have fought each other for centuries: the Jukuns, Tivs and Idoma have fought each, and the enmity is still manifesting today, having an independent region made of these groups alone will not usher in peace and prosperity. I think the Nigerian umbrella which provided the State and Local Government structure have reduced tension significantly between various ethnic groups in the central of Nigeria. The defunct Benue-Plateau State is an example of what would happen when such autonomous region exist.
If you see my previous post to DRANOEL, I believe the Middle Belt, and the South-South as well, if they ever become autonomous units, will still need to work out very scientific internal structures that will be to the interest of everyone. Such practices like the LGA and other sub-units may have to be carried over to these new autonomous regions where desired

I know I sound quite idealist but these are just my thoughts on how things should go. And I do not see any easy roads to take

I do not really see the Hausa-Fulani as enemy, but if we try to exist in a unitary system with them there will be a lot of friction which would not be beneficial to anyone. I believe they need their own space, just like the three southern regions
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op): 1:07am On Jan 11, 2012
Tsiya:
My understanding, purely based on synthesizing what I read over the years, is that the same reason why MD is strongly resisted by many today is the same reason why the MD could not be created in the 1963.

Over the years, a large number of ethnic groups have metamorphosed into Hausa speaking, and as Leonard said, most of these ethnic groups have similarities and more affinity to the Hausa people than the next ethnic group, except where the religion is different. The ethnic groups that make up Southern Bauchi State for instance, are largely related  with those of Plateau State, however, because of Islam most of these ethnic groups, apart from Seyawa who are majority Christains, have gradually turn into Hausa (example - Jarawa, Miya, Burra). Even the Kanuri in Northern Bauchi and Yobe States are today gradually becoming hausanised. Until the beginning of the recent religious crises, the Birom and Angas in Plateau State have no problems relating to, and also being called hausa. In fact, at the fore front of the vanguards of One North, mostly were the Plateau guys.
Great post, bro. However, I have some things I disagree with:
- Using the same reason of regional or national domination to prevent the establishment of the MB would only prove that we have not learnt anything in the last 48 years of motion without movement. My argument is based on the fact that the removal of the MB from the taken-for-granted Northern monolith would improve the homogeneity index for the rest of the area (HFK) and as such reduce friction between its peoples

- The Hausanized groups within Bauchi, Gombe, Yobe, Borno States cannot be in MB because they have already blended into the rest of the HFK territory. The Sayawa of Bauchi and the Tangale-Waja  of Gombe have not undergone this transformation and are MB peoples in my book. The Akoko people of Ondo, despite their linguistic differences with the Yoruba have blended in with the other Oduduwa people. I would dare you to tell an Akoko man he was not Yoruba

- I do not believe the Berom and Angas ever saw themselves as Hausa. I grew up in Jos. I know the people there use Hausa as a lingua franca, but I guess they never felt the need to exert their indigenous rights until the 1995 Jasawa crisis. I guess they may have seen themselves as one North during the 1966-75 period when their son was Head of State, and that was strongly influenced by the North/East issues we had at the time

I do not know where you are from, but I can see even you know these differences. Like I said earlier, Islam is not a criterion for making a group a middle belt group, but  you will agree that small groups near Hausa area tend to be easily assimilated. If this is not stopped by establishing the MB autonomy, even the Hausa will lose as they will spend the next two centuries and all their energy trying to make all the MB groups 'fall in line' rather than on modern developmental strategies. You can imagine all the chaos this will generate
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op): 11:23pm On Jan 10, 2012
@ Leonard, yeah you smiley

DRANOEL:
what makes people one is affirnity with each other. most of the so called MB tribes have nothing (absolutely nothing) in common! for instance theres nothing in common btw the igala and the berom man,neither is there anything in common btw the bachama and mada man.the tivs are so distinct from the others! MB is just an idea of forming a front of minorities against the hausa/fulani. most of these MB tribes have an affirnity with the hausa through years of intermingling the exception being the eastern central ones i.e igala,tiv,idoma!
Since you believe the MB folks have nothing in common, what do you propose? That things remain the way they are?

I guess we need to have some form of self-determination, no?

The beauty of the MB is actually the heterogeneity. If however, you are from this region, you will understand the level of understanding among its people. There are boundary clashes and other expressions of vice, but no different from what is happening in seemingly homogeneous places in Nigeria

To give a small example, Cameroon has over 200 ethnic groups. However, in that country the level of ethnic antagonism is not up to that of Nigeria. I reckon this is due to the fact that no ethnic group is large enough to dominate all the others, at least not permanently. The main problem is between Anglo and Franco sections. This is quite different from the Nigerian situation

If the Middle Belt region gets some kind of autonomy within Nigeria, it would still have to work out its own workable internal structure for stability and growth
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op): 11:11pm On Jan 10, 2012
@ Tsiya,

MB, according to the school of thought I belong to, is made up of the non-Hausa/Fulani/Kanuri in the old Northern region. However, I realize that the area proposed for it includes a lot of Hausa-Fulani & Kanuri peoples who still have a stronger allegiance to their parent bodies far up north than to their closest neighbours (I may be wrong, but that is my feeling)

Personally, I feel that using Christianity as a criteria for the MIDDLE BELT identity is self-defeating. Most MB persons have close relatives who are of Christian, Islamic and traditional convictions, or even a mixture of these

The fact that the region would actually be larger than the rest of the north (core or far north) may be a reason for the strong resistance to the grouping

I am however of the belief that if this region, along with COR and Midwest were all created in 1963 (only Midwest created), Nigeria would have been far ahead of what it is today, and the civil war may have been avoided entirely. But that is a topic for another day
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op): 9:28pm On Jan 10, 2012
naijaking1:
Thanks, that's very interesting. I saw a pre 1960 Igbo map that stretches well into what we know as Kogi today. The Eke, Afor, 4-day week market days is as Igbo as new yam festivals!
Not surprising the ruling military Hausa/Fulani named the state after their language without regard to local languages and culture.
I hope you are not using that old map to jump into conclusions. There is actually no part of Kogi that can be seen as Igbo territory if you check very well. Kogi was just the old LGA in Koton Karfe which is now used to name the whole state due to lack of a common reference for the heterogeneous area. Remember Kogi has Yoruba as well
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op): 7:57pm On Jan 10, 2012
naijaking1:
Iam so impressed by your analysis that I want to ask if you know why many Igala towns bear Igbo names, or Igbo-sounding names?
naijaking1:
@karfe
Please answer my question about the origin of Igbo names in many Kogi towns and villages: Ejila--, Onicha--, Ugbo--,etc
I am from Kogi State. I know about Ejule and Ogbonicha in the eastern part of the state. These are Igala towns. However, in some of the local governments in the southern side, Igbo is spoken by a good percentage of the population. A lot of persons also bear names Egwu, Ogwu, etc. Igala market days are Eke, Afor, etc. But this is normal for boundary areas. Infact, on the Anambra and Enugu side, there are several towns with Igala speakers. An example is Eteh District in Enugu State

In case you do not know, Kogi means river in the Hausa language, and due to the small sizes of middle belt groups, there is a lot of influence from surrounding ethnic groups. In addition, ethnic groups like the Igala which had an empire / kingdom structure have also exerted influence on surrounding ethnic groups

Just note that a lot of this is just my opinion. You may share with us any evidence you have contrary to what I have shared
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op): 7:43pm On Jan 10, 2012
To summarize our thread on MB ethnic make-up so far:

8 states: Kwara, Kogi, Benue, Niger, Nasarawa, Plateau, Taraba and Adamawa minus the Yoruba areas of Kwara and Kogi can be included in the Middle Belt.

4 or 5 other areas can also be included, and will be discussed subsequently.

Stay tuned
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op):
ADAMAWA STATE:

Due to the multiplicity of ethnic groups within this state of 21 LGA's and their differences with the Hausa-Fulani-Kanuri, we are encouraged to include this state in the MB region. However, the strength of the Fulani politically is overwhelming. An article I read says the Fulani population of the state is about 3%. There is strong islamic presence as well, even among the non-Fulani groups. The most prominent local groups are the Bachama and Higgi. The Bura and Marghi can be found here, but are mainly in Borno State to the north of this state

One other point to note is that the Fulani in this state are slightly different in origin from those in other Nigerian states. They are closely related to the Adamawa Fulfulde speakers in Garoua and Maroua, Cameroon

Just to note. Unlike the article in the original post of this thread, I am of the opinion that ethnicity, and not Islamic or Christian origins, should determine the make-up of the MB region. However, some ethnic groups have been so affected by Islam (or the Hausa culture?) in the MB that they have a closer affinity with the core north than other MB groups
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op): 7:20pm On Jan 10, 2012
Let's go on,

TARABA STATE:

There are 16 LGA's in this state. This is one of the MB states with many, many ethnic groups. Some Fulani settlements can be found mainly in the Northern part of this state. The most prominent groups are Jukun, Mumuye, Kuteb, Chamba, and Mambilla. Infact, each of these ethnic groups are usually composed of peoples speaking varying languages. There is also a group of different peoples near the Gombe State border collectively referred to as Wurkum

I have never been to this state, but I hear it is a potential tourist hot spot, especially around the Mambilla Plateau
PoliticsRe: Towards True Federalism: Middle Belt Ideology by karfe(op): 6:24pm On Jan 10, 2012
ekt_bear:
This theory seems too convenient.

Would be politically useful if true, but doesn't sound plausible.

Jukun for example aren't even really indigenous to Nigeria right? Or rather, they only settled in the region within the past 1000 or so years.

Nok on the other hand is a B.C. culture.

Unfortunately, the middle belt appears to be a collection of culturally, ethnically and linguistically heterogeneous peoples.

However, just because that is true doesn't mean you don't have a common interest today. Build around that.
You are right. Its convenient. I will do some personal research into the matter. Like you said, the main issue is that we have a separate background  from Hausa, Fulani, and Kanuri. The Jukun actually have some kind of linguistic relationship with the Plateau groups

edoyad:
Now let me riddle you a bit. What culture would you say is indigenous to the people of the middle belt ? It is liquid and somewhat brown in nature. Someone once told me that it was in ancient times used by priests and chief priests of communities, to get in the "spirit".
Burukutu is not our regional symbol like the kangaroo is to Australia!! Infact, it is not so popular in Niger, Benue and Kogi States. Did I pass?

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