₦airaland Forum

After collecting the state's goverment 20 million naira......

..... he should have told them all these before collecting the twenty million....

tdjeans: Can you do 30?

Not really. You can try Ikeja sha.... maybe you'll get lucky.

But thanks all the same.

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myspnigeria: thats d nest way to address d issue.... seek redress in court

They've already been to the court; and the court refused to answer their prayers.....

drlawizle: I've said it b4...if you like spend centuries in the university...break a round-bottom flask on your flat head during practicals..that's your headache...you are only necessary when called upon...we call the shots in the health industry...live with it or go and die.

Answer the question instead of beating about the bush. I know evasive tactics when I see one. Sebi you talk sey you be intellectual?

drlawizle: It seems you don't get the drift...its just like you hiring a driver even though you are experts it...its just to relieve the stress off you...would you now say because you can drive you will refuse to hire a good driver when you can very well afford it...the driver is there to relieve your stress but when he wants to start feeling all important...you bounce him and replace him with another...not that you decide to start driving yourself from thereafter...these health workers will keep showing to the world how beneath they are to us with all these clamor...Dr Hippocrates was the founding father of Medicine and all others were assistants..fact! The day assistant will become head has and will never come..

This guy.....you think you are very intelligent, meanwhile your comparisons reeks of stupidity.

Are you comparing (for instance) a driver/driving to the job of a pharmacist.

Look at this guy who think we are fools. Pharmacy is 5 year course. And medicine I believe is 6 years course.

So are you saying that you cover all that Pharmacists are taught in their five years of study along with that of your medicine curriculum?

Pray, please do answer the question.

Tconphils: I'm a doctor. A good one at that , by His grace. I can tell you what this whole misunderstanding is about. Right from d early days of medical practice, its been d physician and his patient. Any other human being around is a helper( usually an individual without any training). Just like any other adventures of mankind, Medicine advanced( still growing ) in all ramifications but more importantly, the number of people needing medical attention on daily basis. This informed d need for trained medical personnels to assist the physicians . The laboratories: carry out tests requested by doctors. The nurses: monitor and give drugs prescribed by d doctor to d patient for the doctor and report back to him( if need be). Physiotherapist : carry out musculoskeletal exercises requested by d doctor for the patients. Pharmacists: sell drugs prescribed by doctors and REASON any irregularity in d prescription ( if any). Cleaners and security know there jobs. Read this: All doctors have basic training on all these areas ; pharmacology, laboratory medicine , physiotherapy ..all of them. We can do EVERYTHING a patient needs. Other health workers know this. But we chose to employ the services of nurses and others to lIGHTEN our burden. Health is doctors' innovation. It is like Microsoft to Bill Gate. We have the final say and this should never be compromised. Its a God given right to a doctor starting from d day He engraved enormous intelligence in us above equals. The world understand d complexity of life and ailments and dats y the world wide standard of preserving Medicine for the best brains. Believe me, I know what it takes to be and remain a doctor. We work for every bit of earnings we get. Nurses and patients know that. Health is all we have got. Our helpers cannot be our boss cos Dats wat this is about in Nigeria. Its unfair and its never heard of in other fields( Law, Religion, Universities, Engineering. etc). We are humans with feelings. Even now, I know that doctors are rendering services to patients in Nigeria. We do dat cos we know wat life is. This Govt is just a mess.

I have never read a load so full self-righteous post on Nairaland like the one i just read above. Are you drunk, a Doctor can do the work of phsiotherapist and Medical Labaratory Scientist and that of Pharmacists. Do you know the work of these professionals extends beyond the confines of an hospital.

in the curriculum of medcine, it is Global best parctice world wide that there be exposed to every arear that has to do with human heath and physiology. That dosent mean they are expert in those arears.

When i said the NMA indoctrinates medical students to beleiev they are superior and to look down at other professionals in the health sector, you guys thought i was joking. or how do you expalin the above post, and you know, the sincerely absolotely beleieves he is right and he is amking sense.

they cant even see the truth anymore.

Just check this out "but we chose to employ the services of Nurses and others to lighten our burden"......

So you pay the salaries of other professionals now.....when i say these people are so arrogant, I hope people will beleiev me now.

drlawizle: Previously I used to complain when these lazy elements go on strike cos I don't like doing their work but if they misbehavior this time around....I will be part of those that will willingly and gladly do their work for them...bunch of lazy ingrates...

it so obvious you other professionals in the health sectors as a waste of space.....those NMA as department for brainwasing/indoctrnating doctors just coming out of medical

i know they do...though it may not be formal class, biut they definitely do....in UNILAG they start indcotrinating about their superiorty and every other profesional's inferiority right from when they cross over from LAG to MEDILAG....

...I ma not joking....this is very true....in fact I have witnessed situation in MEDILAG where the Medical labaratory Sciencetists refuse to take medicine students on their classes becasue of their disrespect to the staff.....

.....it went on for a long while.....it was an impasse that had to be settled by hospital Administration

nice concept for kitchen.... but i no see ac and tv sha.....most important, the kitchen no even resemble kitchen wey dem dey cook inside......

There is nothing in the pics that shows that it is the man birthday.....on his birthday i would have thought his wife..... that former AIT presenter would be beside him......

Who is this posing for....

.....good question....

.....I guess we can expect many of such pictures to follow......this one na just intoduction....

unh.....the boy dey enjoy sha......

^^^^^^^^

Thank you jare

Dont allow those guys misinform Nairalanders. Doctors a long time ago separated themselves from the rest of heath professionals in the heath sector. They asl things for themslves and progressed themslevses a lot. To make matters worse, they also worked vehemently against the ptogress of every other professional in the sector.

This what led to other professionals forming one united body to fight for their own rights.

I ask again, if in sane climes like Uk, US etc from where westerm medcine came to us, pharmacist, nurses, Medical Labaratory Scientists can become consultants, why should it be an abomination in Nigeria because doctors says so.

if the doctors have any concern at all, it should be about establishing the proper modalities or requirements before any of these professionals can become a conssultant.

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Dr. Adewale Owolabi is a health expert. In a chat with OMIKO AWA, he bares his mind on the ongoing strike by the Nigerian medical doctors.

Could you say the agitation by the Nigerian medical doctors is for the good of all and better healthcare for the country?

I think in trade dispute you see different unions particularly when government is an employer, acting for either benefit or condition of service review. I don’t think the case of the Nigerian medical doctors is an exemption; it is just that, sometimes, either the frequency or the reason or the process used in getting their grievances or voices heard are where the issues lie and not so much whether they should protest or not. It is not what they are protesting for that really matter, but what channels have they used to get them through and how patient are they, giving the sensitivity and the importance of their role in the society. I think those are the things we need to look at.

Would this strike not cause groups like the pharmacists, laboratory technicians and others associated with medical doctor to also go on strike?

I think the way strike or industrial disputes go in Nigeria is, when one part of the medical group calls it off, the other groups pick it up. When the doctors finish their agitation, the nurses, laboratory workers or the pharmacist will pick up theirs. Sometime instead of working as a team, you see them not flowing in the same direction. I spoke with one of my colleagues in government service about the strike, and he said, sincerely he does not know the reason they are going on strike. He was on his way to meet his medical director that he does not see any reason for the strike and this shows, sometimes, how loose some of the reasons for the strikes are. And looking at some of them, I discovered that a lot of them are really selfish; they are about condition of service, they are about some thing that could be discussed if given enough time to engage the public. For instance, I gathered that they want the structure of the Teaching Hospitals and Federal Medical Centres to be amended, they want the Medical Advisory Chairman to have deputies — four for Teaching Hospitals and three for Federal Medical Centres. They want hazard allowance of a minimum of N100, 000 per month, they want the process of climbing the ladder to level 17, which is the directorship, to be unhindered and by virtue of seniority and whether the person occupying the position is to be addressed as director or not, they want the appointment of the Surgeon General of the Federation. I could remember, 24 years I left Medical School, the issue of Surgeon General was on and I ask myself, if all these conditions are met, will it improve the healthcare of the nation? Will it make the Teaching Hospitals to work better? Will it improve the attitude of the medical team? Will it make the health indices that is abysmal for us as a nation to improve — that is talking about the maternal maternity rate, infant mortality rate, the communicable diseases and other health issues facing the nation. Would it make medical outcome better, would it reduce health tourism to India, a third world country like us, to stop? Would it make Nigeria to be a destination where people can get good medical care? Looking at this, I must say my guess is as good as yours.

I think the doctors are a bit selfish. I look forward to seeing a period when our medical doctors would match out on the streets to say because our mortuaries are smelling, they will not go to work until they put them aright. Go to some hospitals and see the bad state they are and you begin to wonder why don’t the doctors working there to use them as the basis of protest. It is because of this that I say the protest is selfish. It is selfish because we are not doing the right things that should make us get up as a nation.

Are you then saying the strike should be called off?

It takes two to tango, but I am not sure government is listening because any little thing government officials will fly to America or the UK for treatment. And if they are listening, I am not sure they are listening enough. Unfortunately, you don’t hear that a minister is admitted in one Teaching Hospital, except some months back a governor had an accident and was admitted at the National Hospital; that even made the news. So, the people you are talking to are not listening, any little thing they fly, they all have their private doctors and the means to travel abroad, even when we treat malaria better than those doctors they going to meet abroad.

However, all this boils down to the type of government we have as a nation, I think government on its own part is not sensitive to the plight of the people. Government has not done enough; they should have engaged the doctors to make sure this does not happen. Also, the doctors should have engaged the public, give enough warning to sensitise the public about their actions. It is like the Police Force or the Armed Forces going on strike. The medical profession is a sensitive profession that you should not allow for a break in their services. I don’t think the government and the doctors have shown enough maturity on the strike; there are egos flying here and there and I don’t know if these doctors even use the public hospitals or if they too fly abroad.

What does this strike portend for the nation and lives of the people?

My colleagues should go back to work, public opinion is not in our favour; in fact, the public does not see us as people that protect lives or have value for lives. They do not see doctors contributing to their well being anymore, they see us as people they need to go to because they have no choice. I am appealing we go back to work and engage the government more constructively; we should go to the public domain and elicit a debate. I don’t think a teacher earning N40,000 per month would be excited by the fight of the doctors for N100,000 hazard allowance, I am not saying the work doctors do are not hazardous; in fact, every work we do has some measure of hazards built in them, so everybody wants hazard allowance. I tell you if doctors are answered based on this, those who handle blood in the lab, the radiographers, nurses who dress wounds, even cleaners in the hospital will demand for hazard allowance. Doctors should go back to work and look for a health system that would restore the dignity of man, a system that would increase research, treat the vulnerable people and think less of what goes into our individual pockets.


We should rather engage government on the health bill that has been dancing in the house; it should be passed into law so that we can go back to primary healthcare to ensure we prevent diseases. The health bill is in fact a wholesome package that would bring to end some of the things agitated for by the Nigerian doctors. To show you how insensitive government is to the plight of the people, they are not talking about it, don’t be surprised that while the strike lasts political campaigns would be going on. If this were the United State or UK you will see the President or Prime Minister immediately addressing the public, because they feel the pulse of the people. Government needs to be proactive because if you don’t value life as a nation, you can’t enhance life.

MeAboki: In a house of 10, when only 1 is against the rest then something fishy must be going on, because all other 9 cannot be wrong.
Doctors greed and selfishness against other health workers is the cause of this wahala.
Imagine going on strike because:
you don't want others to graduate as consultants - even though anyone can become consultant in his own field
you don't others to be promoted to directors - even though the law entitles them to it
you don't want others to skip GL 11 - even though the law entitles them to it like other civil servants.
you want house officers & resident doctors to be paid teaching allowances - even though they are students & not teaching anybody.
You want to be given the highest Hazard allowance - even though there are others more exposed to hazards than you.
you want to take over control importation of laboratory reagents & equipment - even though there is the laboratory regulatory body (MLSCN) as provided by law
you want to head departments or organisations of other health professionals - e.g. NAFDAC even though they are not meant for you.
you do not want other professionals to head hospitals or become minister for health - even though these positions are essentially and purely administrative/political.

And the list goes on.....haba doctors, na una only be ppl?

My guy, you too much jare; u don sabi them well well

for instance, can doctors be more exposed to Hazards than Laboratory scientist who are the ones that carry out all the tests on body fluids (urine, saliva, excreta, vomit, blood, sperm, vaginal fluid obtained through swapping) whose results will be used for diagnosis by doctors.....

Yet they want to be the only one collecting hazard allowance..... I remember in the late nineties, the Association of Medical Laboratory Scientists had to fight tooth and nail before they could start collecting reasonable hazard allowance because of the stiff opposition from doctors who felt they did not deserve it...

Don't let any doctors come here and deceive you...those guys...... Very vindictive..... Very selfish.... Intact their self-centered-ness get PHD.

reindeer: Dude..your mum who spent 30 years as a lab scientist probably didn't work in a teaching hospital. Go home and ask her the profession of the Director of Administration in those hospitals.
Come to think of it, people like keep bandying on about 'abroad, worldwide' etc It just shows you have no knowledge of the workings of those systems.
If you want the privileges of being a doctor, why don't you go to med school? oh i forgot, the jamb requirements are too high for some intellects to cope with.

My mother studied in UK. She retired from Lagos University Teaching Hospital. She headed the department of Microbiology and Parastiolgy for many years. The stretch of balcony of that department overlooks directly Hall 36 and the car park adjoined to it. Underneath is the massive kitchen where the Hospital uses for cooking meals.

STOP YEARNING NONSENSE

A lady already replied you that everyone in the health sector can't be a doctor. Is that so difficult for you to understand.

So if every medical personal becomes a doctor, who will be the nurse, pharmacist.

FOr you thinks those names or designation are just for show?

Lord have mercy...... I'm exerperated

boseko: The hospital exists primarily because of patients.
How does appointing consultant nurses, pharmacists etc. help with or contribute to patient care?
What is the job of a doctor, nurse, pharmacist, physiotherapist etc.?
I believe we should try to answer these questions. Go check your job description. Efficacy and efficiency will be improved by doing what you are supposed to do. Activity is not the same as accomplishment. Don't do another persons job.

LPO

Though I don't have comprehensive knowledge about the workings of the health sector, but enough to know that the wahala over all this consultancy has to do with the money benefits attached to being a consultant.

Becoming a consultant is like an accountant becoming a chartered accountant or better, a lawyer becoming a SAN and I suspect its effects or implications goes beyond patient care. A consultant can be consulted for services relating to his/her expertise.

And I beleiev the doctors understand this.

drlawizle: That temporary measure is born out of that same mental status you are denying..import physicians that know little about the nations health system...I shouldn't even be arguing with you..your own Nah to sha see doctor even if hin no sabi Shingbain about your condition...you think disease condition and their management is universal...go ahead and import...that's how fashola brought in quacks to be doing the job it took a specialist years to perfect and Lagosians were jumping up & praising him....shior....I pity you.

This will happen when doctors push administrators to the wall. What Fashola did was a temporary measure. Are the doctors not back at their jobs nows.

And please what damage was done that it took years to perfect again? Was it damage to the internal organs of patients? So when doctors abandon their posts and people (always) die, that one is not damage, it is the damage the doctors brought that is damage?

I beg, even if we're not doctors, that doesn't mean we are illiterates you can bamboozle with the assumption that you know better.

You see the things the way you want to see them because you are a doctor.

armadeo: The final paragraph of the post you responded to is beyong belief. That shows you the mental status of our nation.

It doesn't show any mental status: it is just a measure to employ if the doctors refuse to go back to work.....its just a temporary measure

myspnigeria: succeeded in making doctors look more greedy.....sad

No one succeeded in making them look greedy....... Doctors are greedy.....it is not a figment of anyone's imagination...

Sylverbox: then I guess you need to revisit history for more education. And as for your mum's lab its not news that we have Doctors who work in the labs and also lecture medical students(not saying others don't train them too). Pharmacists don't deserve to row in d puddle with this little minds called Johesu.
Noted, there doctors who deserve the boot too especially corrupt CMDs scattered all over the country. But until we begin to stand for what is right am afraid things will never work out. And what is right should be inline with minimum acceptable standard the world over.

Just talk clearly, don't doctors receive lectures from medical labaroratory scientists.

God you can lie sha.....

And please do explain how doctors train pharmacists, Medical laboratory scientist and physiotherapist.

And while at it, do tell what these professionals are doing while doctors train their students.... Eating groundnut and guguru.....

texazzpete: My question for JOHESU is this:

You KNEW before you picked your JAMB form that there's a bias towards medical doctors. You KNEW before you entered your school of Nursing that there was a deeply entrenched hierarchical arrangement favoring the Medical doctors. Yet you went ahead.

Why cry 'wolf' now?

Honestly, this post is so bankrupt of wisdom and common sense that there is no need to waste time in replying.

Sylverbox: It is sad that Nigeria as a nation consistently refuse to Embrace the truth. A case as simple and straight forward as this should not be allowed to cause such uproar.
Firstly is the fact that most of us are not proud of our occupations and rather than get ourselves upgraded we sit down and hate on others.
Its just so sad that a Doctor who sacrifices his sleep and risks his life everyday for people he never knew before then will not be accorded equal respect, rather the people we trained to help us make the job easier and cover more grounds will one day rise up to lord over us.
Its a Sad war because we Doctors know the end. And it will hurt haters more when they remember the fact that over 99% of them will spend their dying moments hoping one of us Doctors can pull out one last trick from the hat.

Are you on crack or cocaine?

Doctors train pharmacists, medical labatatory scientists etc. Jesus Lord! You people arrogance knows no bounds. It rises up high to the heavens.

I have been in my mums lab many times at LUTH while medical students come to take classes on courses that borders on Parasitology, microbiology etc....

reindeer: After all these rant which seem to me was programmed into you by your mum who spent 30years as a lab scientist, will you be against it if your child wishes to go to med school? i think not.
All these bile against doctors do nothing for the health sector, there is not short-cut in life, if you want equality of roles and titles with consultants, go back and study for another 15 years please.
If these amorphous fellows called JOHETSUK are given their demands, it wont be long before bricklayers start demanding equality with architects, auxillary nurse would want to be head of nursing department, civil defence go wan be general for army. Let us not turn Nigeria upside down simply because people want the benefits of what they didn't pay the price for. You should understand there must be a reason why lab science and medicine no get the same jamb entry score.

Spoken like a true doctor.

Very stupid and unreasonable talk.

First my mum didn't programme anything to me. I saw what was happening with my own eyes because I frequent LUTH a lot while I was in Unilag. I have a mind of my own, and I know injustice and unreasonablness when I see one.

All you have said cannot be said to a good defense of doctors attitude and and their pursuit if sabotaging other health sector's workers to advance their profession.

If had a doctor son I would tell him the truth.

Are you saying Pharmacist are not cerebral enough to be directors in medical establishment. Medicine is not more cerebral or difficult than Pharmacist. Get a hold on your false ego.

So what are you guys saying? Are you saying if Dr. Dora Akunyili practised her career in a teaching hospital, she cannot become a director in administration while a doctor can simply because he studied medicine? Very ludicrous. What pomposity and such arrogance.

People, was I wrong now is saying Nigerian doctors are very arrogant, proud and back stabbing?

Then I asked a question that you cleverly dodged and avoided. What the doctors are asking for: Is that the best practises in other parts of the civilised world?

The truth is that Nigerian doctors are the most selfish arrogant and back stabbing set of professionals in the world.

Anytime health workers are asking or fighting for something, they will remove themselves. Then they will ask for their own separately. Anytime any other set of health workers, whether pharmacist, nurses or Laboratory scientist are fighting for their rights, maybe in area of renumeration or benefits, doctors always do their best to sabotage their efforts.

They do not want the renumeration of even a pharmacist to come even a thousand kilometers to their renumeration.

Anytime nurses, pharmacist laboratory scientist get a pay rise or benefits, the doctors will immediately start pressing for addition to their salaries and benefits.

When they go on their strike, no one disturbs them, but when others go on strike, they start crying to the high heavens, looking for every way and pulling strings in the corridors of power to sabotage their effort.

In fact, I don't know where Nigerian doctors got this evil and satanic traits from, and when you to most teaching hospital, dem get fellowship pass anything. I wonder wetin dem dey read for their Bible?

They say only doctors can be consultants, only doctors can be able to rise to positions of directorship.... the question is, it's that the practise in other parts of the world? If not, why do you want to establish that here....

Is pharmacy as a course any easier to study than medicine? I don't think so.

No one is saying doctors should not be given their proper place in the scheme of things in the health sector, and God knows they already have more than enough of that. But what the doctors want is nothing other than subjugating every other heath sector worker under their feet.They want them grovelling and begging at their feet.

Then go and ask anyone who uses teaching hospital, the doctors are so arrogant and full of themselves; they treat people except people they perieve important shabily.

They always shouting renumeration, but doctors are already the highest paid paid public servants (excluding politicians) in Nigeria.

The pay of their counterparts in the private sector doesn't come close at all to their monthly take home pay.

The government really needs to clip their wings. B They should import heath workers or make necessary legislation to do this.

The man spoke the truth. My mother worked for 30 years a a medical laboratory scientist at LUTH. The truth is Nigerian doctors are the most greedy selfish arrogant and back stabbing set of professionals in the world.

Anytime health workers are asking or fighting for something, they will remove themselves. Then they will ask for their own separately. Anytime any other set of health workers, whether pharmacist, nurses or Laboratory scientist are fighting for their rights, maybe in area of renumeration or benefits, doctors always do their best to sabotage their efforts.

They do not want the renumeration of even a pharmacist to come even a thousand kilometers to their renumeration.

Anytime nurses, pharmacist laboratory scientist get a pay rise or benefits, the doctors will immediately start pressing for addition to their salaries and benefits.

When they go on their strike, no one disturbs them, but when others go on strike, they start crying to the high heavens, looking for every way and pulling strings in the corridors of power to sabotage their effort.

In fact, I don't know where Nigerian doctors got this evil and satanic traits from, and when you to most teaching hospital, dem get fellowship pass anything. I wonder wetin dem dey read for their Bible?

They say only doctors can be consultants, only doctors can be able to rise to positions of directorship.... the question is, it's that the practise in other parts of the world? If not, why do you want to establish that here....

Is pharmacy as a course any easier to study than medicine? I don't think so.

No one is saying doctors should not be given their proper place in the scheme of things in the health sector, and God knows they already have more than enough of that. But what the doctors want is nothing other than subjugating every other heath sector worker under their feet.They want them grovelling and begging at their feet.

Then go and ask anyone who uses teaching hospital, the doctors are so arrogant and full of themselves; they treat people except people they perieve important shabily.

They always shouting renumeration, but doctors are already the highest paid paid public servants (excluding politicians) in Nigeria.

The pay of their counterparts in the private sector doesn't come close at all to their monthly take home pay.

The government really needs to clip their wings. B They should import heath workers or make necessary legislation to do this.

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