₦airaland Forum

accused:
These are narrative from friends all around me since I declare my intention that guy it's time I settle down for marriage,but I keep hearing this same words from friends and even my guys abroad. That guy I re very lucky . forget that move and look for a baby mama.

Are you ready for your kid(s) to live in a different place than you do?

Are you ready to not be part of their daily life?

Are you ready to accept that your baby mama will move in with her new partner and your kids will live with another man?

Are you sure your baby mama will be peaceful and not bring drama into your life?

armyofone:
Who be the other one ? I want to know who is doing the competition

Coco of course!

LordReed:
I really can't see how someone cannot see how subjective he's being when he's the one subjectively deciding which fetus should live or die. SMH.

When talking to Nigerians, 99 out of 100 times, at least, they only care for healthy children to be born.
The inherent value and also, in other cases, religious norms are thrown under the bus once you mention disabilities.


But in his defense, I think that what he meant to say was that the protection of human life should be a universal value but chose the wrong words to make his point.

Xavier5:
Exactly, you are right on this one 🤔. Thanks for this. After thinking about this, I had modify the view. And this include my initial responses to you regarding the issue.

So here it is, if the deformity of the fetus is one that will affect the life span of the child, then the fetus can be aborted, since it all ends in the death of the child... except the parents says they still want to birth him or her.

But if the fetus is one that won't affect the life span of the child, then yes, that child should be born. With the system in place, healthcare would be provided for the child of the parents can't afford it.

Never forget, temporal pro-choice should be allowed until the system is effectively in place.



#Xavier

It all ends in death for all of us.

Xavier5:
That's why I used the word, higher chance. The probability of getting pregnant despite birth controls is very low which still brings me to my point of the orphanage and child support coming in only in the few cases.



This is where birth control comes in. If you don't want to get pregnant then be celibate or use birth controls. And in the very few cases where birth control fails, then the government have to ensure that the baby should be born in which he or she would be enrolled into the orphanage system, after which the woman if she chooses not to be a part of the child's life can go on with her life.

Rather than focus on feelings, we should be focusing on the right of a human life to live.



If birth controls are used in the first place, unwanted pregnancy drops significantly. It's only in few cases where pregnancy comes in. So yes, in reality, the proliferation of orphans as you are imagining it to be the case won't be the case.


#Xavier

You want a child to be given away at birth into a system that can never replace a loving family and you want to force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term and push out a baby, which is painful both physically and emotionally and then you claim that you don’t want children with disabilities to be born to suffer but it’s ok if a woman who was forced to give birth suffers and also an orphan who has to live with the knowledge that they were unwanted for the rest of their lives. I see.

Thank you for the exchange. I really enjoyed it. Haven’t had such a good discussion in a long time.

Xavier5:
There's nothing to do about them individually as far as they are all deformities that would subject the child when born to physical, mental and emotional pain and suffering. All deformity capable of the mentioned fall under severe deformities, and as such should be a justifiable reason for abortion except the parent says otherwise. It still boils down to life.
#Xavier

Suffering is a part of life. Everyone suffers at some point. What gives you the right to decide who can suffer how much and who is worthy or unworthy of living?

Xavier5:
So because it can't live outside the woman's body mean we should just snap its neck? Is it the fault of the baby that it found itself in such condition? Why should he or she be punished.

The fetus is a human life... a living human, and as such should be protected. That's the baseline.



Yes, they might cheat the system, but if the baby dies because of their refusal to the right thing, then the law comes for them. It takes an inhumane and selfish person to make such decision. The fear of the law will make them act in line.

As as for those that will be too inhumane and selfish to the point that they are willing to put the baby's ife in danger and serve punishment. Then good luck to them. Such irritates and disgusts me 😠😠😠

But the thing is, majority will act in line for fear of punishment.



Yes, I do and I donate regularly to them. I'm not a sit and watch pro-life. I'm an action one. And as I earlier stated, I'm working on creating a humanitarian organization that will be committed to the system mentioned.



This means you've not been read my write-ups... cos I made it clear that one of the critical cases in which abortion should be allowed is severe deformity of the fetus in other to prevent subjecting the child to severe physical, emotional and mental pain, except the parents says otherwise.

And as I will always say, temporal pro-choice should be allowed until the system is effectively in place.


#Xavier

Au contraire, I have been reading your answers to me very carefully. I like your humanitarian approach and I share some of your views but your problem is that you are naturally smart and thus have become intellectually lazy. To my disappointment, I was right. I was hoping you would surprise me.

Here is why:
I have mentioned trisomy 13, 18 and 21 on purpose to see how you will react and what your line of argument would be. I anticipated that you would continue to argue passionately to make your point which would make you blind to a lesson or two you could learn and eventually make you sound incoherent.

You have decided to lump all three forms of trisomy together under the umbrella of 'severe deformity‘'. Whatever that means, these three genetic anomalies are very different from each other and I would have loved to see what you would do about them individually. So much for intellectual laziness.

Whatever you mean by 'severe deformity' remains a mystery but it is safe to assume that you see a human/fetus without deformity as inherently better and of more value than one with deformity/disability. And that makes you incoherent and proves LordReed‘s point.

Xavier5:
It seems you don't read my response to you. I make it clear that this isn't only the responsibility of the government, but also that of the society... that is willing individuals and organizations.

There are organizations concerned with children‘s welfare and foster parents caring for kids whose parents can’t and yet … nobody wishes to be from a broken home or given away at birth.

How many individuals and organizations will be willing to be part of it? Only one way to find out

We already know if we really care to know, do you?

And let's not forget the fact that this only occurs in few cases since due to birth controls being subsidized and made available, affordable and accessible, unwanted pregnancies will significantly drop.

Are we talking about a utopian place or the US or Nigeria?

This is not an overnight thing, this is why I made it clear that lots of time, efforts and resources will be spent but nevertheless its possible. That's why I always state that temporal pro-choice should be allowed until the system is effectively established. I don't know which part of that you're finding difficult to grasp.

Good luck with this system. My humble opinion, look at how well it’s working now and then what needs to be done to improve it and hopefully the government will provide you with tax payers money to give the unwanted child a beautiful life.


#Xavier[/quote]

Xavier5:
... Because she doesn't want to exercise responsibility over that child. Don't forget that. It seems to me you just want to ignore that basic fact. The system prevents her from having to exercise such responsibility. Aside that, if she doesn't want it, why not utilise birth controls? At least that gives her a very high chance of not getting pregnant

#Xavier

First of all, some women get pregnant despite birth control.

Secondly, a lot of women don’t want to carry a pregnancy and give birth. Not only because they are not ready for a baby but because they don’t want to be pregnant in the first place. A pregnancy is not a walk in the park.

And for many women having an abortion is better than having a child grow up in an orphanage. Maybe in your fictional book orphanages are like Disneyland but the reality is very different.

budaatum:
"Highly unlikely", except that it already happens that some oppose feeding school children! Or are born school children not of greater value and more needing of care than a foetus?

Even in socialist UK, there's a Two Child limit to benefit payments, how much less in uber capitalist USA.

Xavier5 probably thinks that the government has an unlimited amount of money and resources to go around.

descarado:
Was told my dad has chilli he chew as he eats.
Wtf.
I think I have his reincarnation in my house. Spicy chilli is endangered spice in my kitchen. I mean,I will combine the spicest of them all and the day I want to use it, jar is empty.

I love hot chilli especially in this season. Has been raining cat and dog here since 2 weeks. Hospitals are filled with covid breakout.

Another hot lady in the house 🌶️

Stay healthy dear!

Xavier5:
The aim of abortion is for the woman not to be forced to accept responsibility over a child. With the system I mentioned, she wouldn't. That's what I mean by mother. I'm not talking about biological motherhood, but functional motherhood. I hope that's been clarified.


#Xavier

The aim of abortion is for the woman not to be forced to carry a pregnancy to term in the first place. You don’t have to be a woman to understand it or maybe you do?

Xavier5:
It's not punishing a sick person for being sick, it's taking measures to protect an innocent human life.

Aside that, the "sick people" should not get pregnant in the first place. This is where subsidizing birth control to ensure their affordability, accessibility and availability comes in. With this, unwanted pregnancies drop significantly.

And secondly, as I said, if she refuses to seek medical and therapeutical help for the sake of the child. Then the government should make it known that if the baby dies because of her refusal to seek help, then she will be punished legally. Such a woman being so selfish hence putting the life of an innocent baby at risk is highly inhumane. If you don't want to do it for yourself, then do it for the baby.

The fear of being punished legally if anything happens to the baby because of her, will cause her to take seek the help. So either way, she would seek the help.

Now if she says she doesn't want the baby, she should be persuaded to give birth, after which the baby will be enrolled into the orphanage system in place hence freeing her from such responsibility. But if there's a relative willing to shoulder the responsibility over the baby, then the child would be handed over to them. If finances is the problem for the willing woman or relative, then the child support system comes in.

#Xavier

You are punishing a person for being sick to save a fetus that couldn’t live outside the person’s body.

I agree with the point about birth control but it still happens.

No, an addict won’t necessarily seek help. That’s the nature of addiction. They will hide, cheat, use plenty of avoidance strategies and even accept punishment.

One more time, have you ever been to an orphanage? And do you really think that it is that easy to give up your child for adoption even if you are not ready to be a mother?

Also, if a fetus is diagnosed with trisomy 13 or 18 or 21, should the baby be born?

Xavier5:
Creating a thread is not really my thing, I would love to discuss it here. But if such is not possible, then I think there's an alternative. I'm currently writing a fictional book in which the issue of intrinsic human value will be discussed. I will be releasing the story on Nairaland, and when I do, I will tag you and other interested people to hop in. How about this?



I have explain what the government can do to address the issue to Maeve7 above.

You see it as taking the right from an drug addictive pregnant woman, I see it as taking measures to protect a human life.

Further explanation on how the government can handle the issue to ensure the woman isn't forced to be a mother against her will while simultaneously protecting the life of the baby has been addressed in my response to Maeve7 above.


#Xavier

By the way, once you force a woman to give birth, she becomes a mother. She might not take care of the baby in case of adoption but she is still the biological mother. Just for the sake of clarity.

cococandy:
Twins 👯‍♀️

One of us ended being mixed up in the hospital and was given to a different family.

Xavier5:
What the government can do in this case is to step in and persuade the addict to seek medical and therapeutical help, on the government's expenses if she can't afford them, in other to keep the baby safe. If she agrees, good. But if she refuses, the government have to let her know that if the baby in her womb dies because of her reckless and addictive actions, then she will be legally punished. This will persuade her. Legal punishment have a way of making people act right.

Now if she says she doesn't want the baby, she should be persuaded to give birth, after which the baby will be enrolled into the orphanage system in place hence freeing her from such responsibility. But if there's a relative willing to shoulder the responsibility over the baby, then the child would be handed over to them. If finances is the problem for the willing woman or relative, then the child support system comes in.

Yes, as I earlier said, the process is physically, mentally, emotionally and financially straining, but as I said, a human life is worth such strain.



No. But if the addict is pregnant, family and friends should persuade her to seek medical and therapeutical help, but if refuses, then the family or friends should involve the government which will take the above action.

And I will always emphasis that temporal pro-choice should be allowed until the system is effectively in place.


#Xavier

The government should persuade an addict to stop what addicts, by definition, and even with professional help, can’t stop doing. Alcoholics have a 70% relapse rate, the small number of those who actually stop until they start again .

So in other words, you want to punish sick people for being sick.

And what if family members don’t report? Will they also be persecuted for being complicit? Where is the limit to policing female bodies and lives? Do a woman’s fundamental liberties and rights end with pregnancy?

What about anorexic women? Will they be fed by force?

And have you ever visited an orphanage?

cococandy:
I keep a jar of hot chili oil for certain occasions when I can’t bear mildy spicy.

I have chilli sauce in a bottle for such occasions.

cococandy:
Thank you. Spice level 5/10. So the people I live with don’t cry.

My personal preference is 8-9/10

It’s like we live with the same people, I swear. I would put much more pepper inside if I didn’t have to eat it alone later.

The mother looks younger than the wife.

cococandy:
All that rice talk got me craving jollof with overripe dodo

Beautiful and I am sure delicious too.

How peppery is your jollof on a scale from 1-10 with 10 being extremely hot?

Xavier5:
As I said, policies and healthcare. Regarding policies, If you were to be the government, what policies would you create to prevent the woman from doing so? And what efforts would you take to make this addicts comply? Think about that, you will get your answer.

Secondly, if nobody knows about it then there's nothing that can be done. But as far as there are people in her life, awareness of her addiction won't go unnoticed. So which means the case of someone not knowing is highly unlikely.

Thirdly, no woman will dump her baby in the trash, not when there's a well funded orphanage and child support system. And with this system in place, any woman caught dumping her child in the trash will and should be punished with the law.



As the government, what would you do if you discover a woman was maltreating her child in this context or scenario? Therein lies your answer.



A government that cares will be willing to spend to keep those children safe and cared for. If the government is willing to spend on unneeded things like wars, then they should be willing to spend some portion of that money on child support and orphanage.

And secondly, this isn't only the responsibility of the government. But with collaborative effort of willing individuals and organizations also, such systems can very well be created and funded. As I said, it's going to take time, efforts and resources, but it's possible.

And aside that, remember, we are talking about unwanted pregnancies. The system I mentioned include subsidizing birth controls to make it affordable, accessible and available which goes a long way to significantly reduce unwanted pregnancies if effectively done. So the issue of unwanted pregnancies only come into play in few cases, not in the majority of cases.

But I will always emphasis the allowance of temporal pro-choice until the the mentioned system is effectively in place.


#Xavier

You suggested it so please be so kind and explain to me how the government will prevent a pregnant woman from drinking or smoking or taking too many pain killers or the wrong ones? And what if a woman refuses to eat because she suffers from anorexia, will the government force feed her? Pray tell.

So you want family members and friends to report each other to the authorities? The DDR comes to mind.

Boil half of them. Boiled eggs last longer. And eat the rest before they expire.

Mashed potatoes with turkey breast and mushrooms in gravy.

Xavier5:
I mentioned child healthcare and welfare systems. With such, if a woman is known to be a drug addict, the government steps in to prevent her from doing that with the needed policies and healthcare.

And when she gives birth and it is determined that she can't cater for that child, then the well funded orphanage system comes in to cater for the child. If there's a relative that's willing to shoulder that responsibility, then the child can be handed over to them. If money is the issue for the relatives, then the well funded child support system comes in.

But I also emphasized the allowance of temporal pro-choice until the mentioned system, which I personally call the Abortion Mitigating System aka AMS, is effectively established.


#Xavier

Prevent her how exactly? What if she is not known to be an addict? And what about those addicts who knowing that the government 'steps in' won’t go and see a doctor? Don’t you think your ideas will increase the number of women who hide their pregnancies to dump the baby later in the trash?

What if a woman, out of shame or because of pressure or whatever reason, decides to keep the child she wanted to abort but couldn’t, maltreats it because the child is not wanted?

Well-funded orphanage? How much money is a government willing to spend on unwanted children when even the school system is underfunded? How many workers will be in charge of how many children?

wirinet:
No. They are displaying their sexuality in public. You don't see heterosexuals displaying their sexuality in public.

I live in a place where homosexuality is accepted and don’t see any homosexuals display their sexuality in public more than heterosexual couples do. In fact, I see it much less with homosexuals.

kkins25:
I think, women who are that careless usually end up in jail and charged with murder if the baby is born with developmental problems.

In which country?

Xavier5:
I addressed this genuine concern of yours in one of my write-ups. Here it is below;


#Xavier

Are you suggesting that adoption/orphanages will make a woman provide the necessary care for the unwanted fetus/embryo inside her body and stop her from harming it with e.g. substance abuse?

Xavier5:
Bro nobody is insulting you, I'm just surprised at your dehumanizing and ridiculous reasons to kill a human life. That's it. Anybody with a conscience will squeeze his or her face at what you just said. That's just it.

Imagine blaming a fetus for something that isn't his or her fault and using it to justify their killing. Imagine calling for the killing of a fetus when it stands as no threat to the woman's life. Is that not something to squeeze one's face at?

#Xavier

It’s interesting to read all your concern about the fetus without considering how a woman will treat an unwanted fetus inside her body. You surely know that her lifestyle, mental health, eating habits and possible substance abuse all have an impact on the fetus and with the development of the nervous system the pain that she can inflict on the fetus and then embryo will be felt more intensely. Will anyone be there to protect this fetus from what a woman can do or not do to ensure that it is provided with everything a fetus/embryo needs and save it from any harm?

And how has the ban on abortion stopped women from having abortions?

advanceDNA:
Yawn!!!!!!! No amount of guilt trippin will make a man marry a woman he's not interested in or be responsible for kid he clearly ddnt wasn't expecting......aat the end of the day it's best to direct this ur preaching to those spreading legs for random niggas and thinking keeping the well make him marry or start sending money for upkeep...

Who is talking about marriage? I was talking about the children that have your dna that are your responsibility. Who will want to marry you? Just exit the thread, you‘d be lucky if a woman wanted to tie you down when you can’t even read.

NoahHadNoArk:
With you gone, they’ll be One less mouth to feed

Drop venue for your funeral before you go, that rice must not miss me

Be careful with your words. What you wish unto others …

advanceDNA:
Women are funny.....we all want to fvck...but women always never want to be responsible for the outcome of spreading their legs and not using contraceptives afterwards.....

Yeah no one is denying the nigga ddnt cum......but the decision to let sperm fertilize ur egg or use contraceptive is totally urs..especially when a nigga paid u to get a contraceptive

Like I always say...the joke is always on them because even in saner climes where child support is seriously enforced .....niggas still refuse to pay and some gladly go and receive free food from government and one bedroom self contain in the penitentiary...

Whether you pay or don’t pay, the child still carries your ”advanced dna“ and is innocent in all of this. If you don’t have a conscience, that’s on you. Just don’t come later talking how you had no chance to be a father because the mother bla bla bla.

And the people who live on government money permanently are losers. If at some point they want more than just their basic needs to be met, the government‘s debt collectors will come for them.

This guy is just plain stoopid. How are you going to prove in court that she wanted to tie you down?

The level of empty skulls proudly parading their ignorance online is alarming.