₦airaland Forum

OLAADEGBU:
If you don't understand the word "Universe" let me give you "Cosmos." Both of them are included in the Cosmos.

“God created the heavens and the earth meaning the "universe" in the beginning.”

So you mean only heaven and earth comprise of “universe”?
Do you think the sun is on earth?

Heard of multiverse?

OLAADEGBU:
God created the heavens and the earth meaning the "universe" in the beginning.

You mean heaven and earth only comprises of “universe”? What about saturn and other planets?

Have you seen the size of earth?

Lawag3:
You know what I'm do with you think over all I have said let a neutral person see this and decide who is right. I need to rest good night

It’s you that should think over, not with indoctrination but with literate mind, first start with the definition of “beginning, end and all knowing”.
An all knowing god knows what will happen not possible things that will happen.
A gambler that won a ticket knew possible outcomes but didn’t know the exact outcome, are we going to call the gambler all knowing because he got the correct outcome?

Lawag3:
yeah because a match doesn't have free will even the players don't get to choose the outcome if not it is fix humans are not football matches
No a gambler knows all the outcome and he gets to pick any outcome by luck. While God gave the right to pick to us that is free will we decide our lives not God in gambling the gambler also decides although by luck but since we have free will God doesn't decide for us although he knows all possible outcome

The players has free will that’s why nobody knows the outcome, if the match was fixed they will play exactly how the match was to go hence no free will.
What are you doing bro?

If your god knows everything and the future that means you have no free will.
If your god gave right to pick that means he doesn’t know everything, he doesn’t know how the end and future will be he only has possible outcomes, just like how a gambler has possible outcomes of match..

Lawag3:
Have you watched avengers infinity war in a scene doctor strange knew all the possible outcomes of their fight with Thanos he saw that they only won once that is if they follow a particular way he knew all possible outcomes he knew that they could lose if they don't follow a particular way and vice versa
Same with God

So before the fight started he knows exactly how the fight will go, who will get punched and not?
He knew the exact outcome if they followed a particular way, he was not hoping on possible outcome.

Read what you typed bro

Lawag3:
In gambling people people don't know the outcome God knows how your life can turn out but it's up to you. You can guess but you don't know if it will turn out like that God knows how it will turn out. your possible outcomes in this life could be 20 Gods knows all mine could be 3 God knows all 3 another person could be 50 God knows all 50

In gambling people know possible outcomes.
If god knows how your life can turn out that means you have no free will, before you even made any decision your god already knows how your life will turn out .

A football match can score 2,3,10, we know possible outcomes but we don’t know exact outcome.
An all knowing god won’t be waiting for possible outcome, he knows exactly the scoreline before they even started the match.

You are describing a gambler that has different options to pick but doesn’t know the exact one that will turn out to be right, if he doesn’t know the exact one then how does he know the future?
With which option did he create the future that he knows?

Lawag3:
Ask yourself are we at the end yet? You are saying it as if I said God knows your beginning and your end I never said that I said is God himself is the beginning and end I have told you what this means.
What God said is that I'm omniscience which means to know all you know the meaning of all right

So if your god doesn’t know humans beginning and end, how then is he “all knowing”?

If he knows ALL, that means he knows what has already happened in the future. He knows ALL your decisions before you make them.
An all knowing god doesn’t rely on “possible outcomes” that’s gambling.

Lawag3:
Because we determine our future(which is free will) although he knows all that can possibly happen in that future he won't force us to choose what he wants. Don't forget my questions.

If we determine our future that means your creator yahweh doesn’t know exactly the future. He can only wait until we determine it.

I can also guess different possible outcomes of what will happen in the future, but I don’t know exactly what will happen.
If I’m all knowing that means I already know exactly what will happen in the end not what will “POSSIBLE HAPPEN” that’s gambling.

Which questions, you are yet to answer me what “beginning and end” and “ all knowing” means, they are English words.
Define them like a literate.

Lawag3:
The council of niciea was to argue the trinity not all that this will be argued later
Beginning and end doesn't mean you must know all but God is the beginning and end which means he is God today God yesterday And God forever and he is also all knowing Whis means he knows everything ,Total ,All.

The council of nicea didn’t argue trinity, they were arguing how they should potray jesus, and tertulian trinity concept won.

If you don’t know all that will happen in the beginning and end, how then did you arrive at the end?
That means your end is not complete, you lack all information to arrive at the end.
If he knows everything that means you have no free will, if he doesn’t know everything that means he is not all knowing.

If not for religion indoctrination, this is quite simple.

Lawag3:
Oga I answered your question answer mine

According to you “ All knowing (Omniscience) means all-knowing. God is all all-knowing in the sense that he is aware of the past, present, and future”

If he is aware of the future, while we are in the present making decisions, how then do you have free will?

Lawag3:
Wait what are you trying to prove exactly? that if you die a horrible death or your life turns out to be horrible that it's all God's fault or what do you believe this life is scripted? answer this question

What do you understand by “all knowing” and “beginning and end?”
They are English words, look up the meaning.

A movie producer knows all that will happen in his movie, he knows the beginning and how it will end, he knows who will die, how they will die and when they will die.

Lawag3:
Angels use to have free will but it was taken away from them after the rebellion that's why Satan can never be good again and angels can never rebel again anyway this is a story for another day
The beginning and end means that God is the beginning and the end of all things. In other words, he always was God and he always will be God.

Nothing exists that God did not create (John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16). He was God even before heaven and earth existed (Genesis 1:1). It was he who created these things by his Word, by his wisdom and by his great power (Proverbs 8:22-31).

We live in an age when people and devils oppose God by their evil deeds. They foolishly try to defeat God, but they can never succeed (Psalm 2:1-7). Even in this evil age, God remains God. Even in this age, he alone has all power (Colossians 1:17).

The Book of Revelation says much about the end of all things, especially in chapters 21 and 22. Even heaven and earth will not last (2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 21:1), but God’s power and authority can never end. When the present age ends, God will again establish his complete rule over all things. He will punish those who do evil things, both devils and people; but he will live with his people. Then his people will no longer suffer; they will never again know tears or pain or death (21:4). That is the perfect world that God wants; and that perfect age will never end .
All knowing (Omniscience) means all-knowing. God is all all-knowing in the sense that he is aware of the past, present, and future. Nothing takes him by surprise. His knowledge is total. He knows all that there is to know and all that can be known.The prefix ''omni'' comes from the Latin for ''all

So your all knowing god waited for satan to rebel to revoke the “free will” of other angels, he’s more reactive than proactive.

How did he arrive to the beginning and end of all things if he doesn’t know the outcomes of all things?
You quoting some random books to defend your yahweh is not actually brilliant, it’s just like me quoting theogony to defend how powerful greek gods are.

Everyone wants a perfect life just like your yahweh wants a perfect world, but nobody including your yahweh know what will happen.
If your god is beginning and end he won’t be hoping for the world to be “perfect”, he will already know exactly how the world will be till the end.


The book of revelation that almost didn’t make it to bible?
https://www.nairaland.com/7382665/how-revelation-got-into-bible

Lawag3:
Wait what are you trying to prove exactly? that if you die a horrible death or your life turns out to be horrible that it's all God's fault or what do you believe this life is scripted?
We humans are special the bible says that we are a little bit lower than angels just because we have free will and we are not going to have it forever because when we die it is over.

What do you understand by “all knowing” and “beginning and end?”
A movie producer knows all that will happen in his movie, he knows the beginning and how it will end, he knows who will die, how they will die and when they will die.

So angels don’t have free will, how then did some angels rebel against yahweh?
Was it yahweh that made them to do it, so the movie can have yahweh as protagonist and satan as antagonist?

[quote author=NNTR post=118176595][/quote]How come your “truth” is always against evidence and facts.

It seems holy spirit aka spirit of truth is a clueless thing or you are the one making things up?

Lawag3:
He doesn't only know the outcome he knows all the outcomes which is the true definition of all knowing and he is merciful enough to let us choose how we want our lives to be so we won't be able to blame him when things don't go our way

If he knows all outcomes then you have no free will.
If he allows you to choose that means he doesn’t know all outcomes.
You are contradicting yourself

Lawag3:
The beginning and the end doesn't mean he is the All knowing controller of human life
Let's take Cain and Abel for example God knew Cain killed Abel but God also Knows Cain wouldn't have killed Abel if he hadn't allow jealousy to takeover his heart. Although God's know all that can happen before they happen it is most time up to man to decide if they happen or not. That is also why a man can disobey God.God will never script man to go against him and punish him for what he made him do. That will make him partial.

How is he beginning and end if he doesn’t know the outcome of humans decision? How did he arrive at the end then? Do you know what beginning and end means?
You mean before cain and abel was created he didn’t know how they will end? So how is he beginning and end? He his as clueless as everyone else.
Your creator yahweh is not all knowing, he lacks knowledge of somethings.

[quote author=NNTR post=118176595][/quote]Not to forget, yahweh mother asheerah later became yahweh wife.
NNTR, Your creator is literally a motherfvucker

[quote author=NNTR post=118176595][/quote]Shameless liar.

These are your truth

Lawag3:
Now you're talking . ok God is the beginning and end doesn't mean he'll control every aspect of our life's . Now God said in the bible the thought I have for you is good and not evil for you to meet my expected end that tells you that we can work contrary to what God has in mind for us which we make us not to get to the ending he expects from us.

If yahweh is beginning and end that means he has already shaped how your life will be till the end. He already knows how you will end before you were created, you only following the script to the end that he already knows.

If you can work contrary without your god knowing that means he is not all knowing, and he doesn’t know what will happen at the end.

“Expected” doesn’t look like a certain word, just like a father “expects” his son to be successful but he doesn’t know if he will be or not.
A father thought for his son is good and not evil. He can only hope just like your creator yahweh is hoping.

Like i said first know what “beginning, end and all knowing” means.
They are English words.

[quote author=NNTR post=118176189][/quote]You made a false assertions about Canaanite and Ugaritic pantheons, El.

You always talk about truth, yet you lying so desperate and shamelessly.

Once again, yahweh is one of the sons of El he gave him israEL as inheritance. That’s why yahweh alwsys refer to himself as god of israelite
NNTR.

Lawag3:
I can see you have nothing to offer because you are always repeating what I spent time to explain instead of you to prove my explanation wrong you are just saying your God does guess work even when I told you knowing is different from guessing.
If you can't prove why my explanation is wrong or why what I explained is impossible then I don't know why I'm wasting time with you
Prove what I said to be wrong .

You explained nothing. First learn what “beginning and end” means.
If your god is all knowing and he is the beginning and end, that means the exact decision you’ll make till you die he already knows it.
Only humans wait for possible outcomes.


First learn what “all knowing”, beginning and end means

[quote author=NNTR post=118176189][/quote]Didn’t you say that orunmila exist in yoruba mythology?

If not it was obatala with the help of orunmila that created you NNTR

Lawag3:
I can see you you want to blame God for the way your life is going

I can see that yahweh your creator is not all knowing and only guessing outcomes like an addict gambler

Lawag3:
He doesn't guess he knows knowing and guessing are two different things. He is All knowing but that doesn't mean he is going to allow some people be condemned from birth because it means for some people that no matter what they do their lives are going to play out in a particular way whether it is good our bad that will also make him partial. So he gave us free will and the ability to choose our path.

So your god doesn’t know the end? He doesn’t know how the end of the baby in the womb will look like.
Like a producer, he already knows the beginning and end of the movie, he wrote the script.

If your god is beginning and end then he must have seen all what your “free will” will end like.

Dtruthspeaker:
We can only see as far as our eyes can see exactly like our cars and dolls and mannequins.

Exactly, so all what you read in bible are people’s assumptions.

Lawag3:
Yeah because the dice can't think for itself but we are different we have a mind of our own

So yahweh doesn’t know our mind and he is only predicting what will happen at the end?
An all knowing god won’t be waiting for outcomes, he already knows the outcome before decision was taken hence you have no free will, only following yahweh script.

Lawag3:
We have free will. God knows all the possible outcome of our life's whatever we do we determine the outcome. It like the way we throw dice we know all the possible outcomes

We don’t know the exact outcome when we throw the dice that’s why we have something called “probability”, so yahweh also doesn’t know the exact outcome of how the end will be?
If i throw a dice I don’t the number it will bring, I’m not all knowing.
An all knowing person will know the exact outcome and not just guess the possible outcomes.

NNTR:
In the Canaanite and Ugaritic pantheons, El, is the special name or title ascribed to a particular super-consciousness (i.e. "the god"
who is distinguished from their other super-consciousnesses (i.e. other gods)

God, is God, is El, before the darling Canaanite supreme deity El and Asherah, one of the three great goddesses of the Canaanite pantheon.

God, is God, is El, before the Abrahamic faiths and most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM is

You've been warned about how to courteously and polite behave, so you have one chance left to clean up your act.

One more name calling, and YOYO.

If I am wrong, share here then for all to see and read what the plan of salvation, redemption, reconciliation and atonement are in Yoruba mythology now

You've been warned about how to courteously and polite behave, so three strikes and you're out

You havent earned the right for me to divulge to you, where or how I have access to the corpus



Go figure what the portmanteau words 'Orunmila' and 'enia' aka 'eniyan' means

If its of any value to you, you easily will point it out.

Luke 24:27
'Then beginning with Moses and [throughout] all the [writings of the] prophets,
He explained and interpreted for them the things referring to Himself [found] in all the Scriptures.'

Pleased to see you take to the Tanakh correction. I doubt you know what Tanakh stands for or represents, so hardly wont understand that the Old Testament conceals the New Testament, while the New Testament reveals the Old Testament

What I wrote is His original and/or indigenous name

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

In the cannanite and ugartic, EL is the father of the patheon.

God is an English name with germanic origin that comes from gudan and it means “to pour”
Father of Abraham is terah, you said a bunch of nothi.

If you keep making DUMB ASSERTIONS you’ll be pointed out, this will teach you a lesson that not everyone is an illiterate like you, you can’t be making false and dumb statements and not be called out.

I’m not saying you are wrong, just kindly show me the yoruba mythology you read where you got this info “Exactly why in Yoruba mythology, there isnt room for a plan of salvation, a redemption, reconciliation nor atonement”
Kindly show us.

Are you not a yahweh worshipper?
Who do you think you are?


You can’t tell us where you read orumila work because you are a SHAMELESS LIAR!

That’s not what i asked, read slow” kindly show us the works you read that make you claim orunmila is a better philosopher than socrates and Aristotle, how come you were ranting earlier but can’t prove them now?

The luke you are quoting is not in the Tanakh, the luke book written by an UNKNOWN PERSON copied MARK to write his work.
The New Testament was written centuries after tanakh was written, the jews reject your rome created book you call New Testament.

What you wrote doesn’t exist, you talk about truth but here you are living in lies and ignorance.
Yeshua is a hebrew name, yahushua or the nonsense you wrote doesn’t exist in hebrew language, same as iesus chrestus.

Lawag3:
Gods is the beginning and the end he is infinite the is outside our concept of space and time so he is highly mysterious but he also reveals himself sometimes so we have no way of knowing the beginning of God that is if he has a beginning

If he is the beginning and end, how then do you have free will since he already knows the end?
You are just following his script.

Are you not a yahweh worshipper?

NNTR:
You're wrong in saying YHWH as a father, known as El

Mind your language. Next time use incorrect assertions, while you try to be courteous and polite, as any repeat will lead to vacating interacting further with you on this thread. Do you understand?

Clearly and distinctly share here what they are then please

The more I participate in having discussions on this forum, the more I've noticed that the people who I can have an intelligent discussion with do not resort to name-calling unlike some posters who do call other posters "yahweh worshipper, dumb" and the likes.

Where and when did you ask?
Point me to where, as I must have missed reading it

What advice and you referring to

At least type the word correctly please. Its Tanakh

1. What inscription did Pilate command be hung on the cross Jesus died on please?
2. What as far as you know or understand, does YHWH mean then?

You introduce Moses and Abraham, not me

I hear you, but then, so, who is Yahshua Ha Mashiach then?

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

YHWH has a father and a mother. EL and asherah.

If you make dumb assertions i have to point it out.

show me the yoruba mythology you read where you got this info “ Exactly why in Yoruba mythology, there isnt room for a plan of salvation, aredemption, reconciliation nor atonement”
Kindly show us, yahweh worshipper.

What exactly have you read on orunmila for you to make that claim, we can read the work of plato and aristotle, show us where you read the work of orumila for you to compare them.
It was you that brought them in, so prove it.
YOU CANNOT BE MAKING DUMB CLAIMS AND NOT EXPECT IT TO BE POINTED OUT, you are blatantly lying about what you know NOTHING about!
you are a LIAR, making false claims you can’t prove.

You are making false assertions but you don’t want to be called out, continue living in your bubble.

Go back to our earlier discussion and read it, it just shows you don’t read reply, you just like ranting.

Was pilate mentioned in the tanakh?

What do you understand by “jewish”, before you claim yhwh came from “jewish route”?
Where did you think the books in the tanakh comes from?

Yashusa or whatever you wrote is a wrong name, deal with fact not illusion.

NNTR:
If you are not impressed with YHWH, if you have no admiration or respect of YHWH then from raw materials, actually out of nothing go make your own creation

I prefer you dont descend to using purile remark, when what we are having isnt an argument, but rather is two matured minds having a civil, and meaningful discussion

I already said that Orunmila easily could hold it down with the likes of Plato or Aristotle. Even added that Ọrunmila's philosophy is superior to Socrates.

All three.
Now when are we going to see you respond to those questions above please?

Psalm 100:3
'Know and fully recognize with gratitude that the LORD Himself is God;
It is He who has made us, not we ourselves [and we are His].
We are His people and the sheep of His pasture'

Psalms 95:7
'The LORD is our God, and we are His people,
the sheep he takes care of in his own pasture.
Listen to God's voice today! '

YHWH is a universal God, who chose to come to earth via a Jewish route or Jewish means

Tell me something, I dont already know

So? Tell that to cross worshippers then

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Why would i be impressed with YHWH, an orphan god that the israelite got from shasu tribe?
Why don’t you worship yhwh father, El, the one that gave him israEL as inheritance?

When you make dumb assertions i have to point it out, show me the yoruba mythology you read where you got this info “ Exactly why in Yoruba mythology, there isnt room for a plan of salvation, aredemption, reconciliation nor atonement”
Kindly show us, yahweh worshipper.

What exactly have you read on orunmila for you to make that claim, we can read the work of plato and aristotle, show us where you read the work of orumila for you to compare them.
Kindly show us, yahweh worshipper.

I asked you earlier, to show me the origin of the English word “heaven”, why don’t you listen to your advice and answer that?

You are quoting tanank to defend your israelite god lol, it seems your YHWH doesn’t have exist outside it.
YHWH as he called himself in the tanakh you are quoting is only a israelite god!
You said jewish route”, where did the “jews” come from?
Is moses or abraham a jew?

The cross worshippers are also iesus chrestus worshipper, that’s something you don’t know.

NNTR:
Exactly what I feel about certain part in Yoruba mythology and/or cosmology

Exactly where and how their unreasonable confusion appears

Exactly why in Yoruba mythology, there isnt room for a plan of salvation, aredemption, reconciliation nor atonement

Of course, that will be the case in a fantasised setting. Even called the second in command to God (i.e. Olodumare or Eledumare)

Another form of idolatry and ancestor worship that the Yoruba embroiled themselves in

1. Out of all three, which has a plan to bring death, sickness, misfortune, misery, adversity, poverty, pain, sorrow, destitution, discrimination et cetera to an end
2. Which out the three has an articulated plan to redeem, save, reconcile the soul back to his Maker and pay the price or penalty for sin?

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

The whole of jewish mythology is rubbish, with El father of yahweh heading the patheon.
The yahweh you are worshipping is a war god, with a lot of genocide to his name.

You are been dumb with making that assertion on yoruba mythology, which yoruba mythology have you read?
, so what exactly is it in orumila philosophy that you like.

Out of olorun, yahweh and Allah which one have you read? Or you are only a sheep to the israelite god?
Idol means image
The cross is an idol