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[quote author=A-40 link=topic=143923.msg2489255#msg2489255 date=1215712913]@millco
8'11? lol what is he a palm tree?[/quote]With his arms up. . .basically

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[quote author=gabe_logan link=topic=143923.msg2480391#msg2480391 date=1215559459]@ a-40
@ a-40
u've forgotten centres like jerome james (7'1), loren woods (7'2) shawn bradley (7'6), olumide oyedeji and all those white centers in the league.
has anyone noticed that micheal beasely is smaller than the height he is listed at. he is listed at 6'10 but ive noticed he looks at bout 6'7-6'8. i was watchin an nba summer league game and i saw him stand close to tyrus thomas (who is 6' and he was actually shorter that tyrus thomas.
finally, looking foward to watching greg oden play in the league.[/quote]I didn't know you rebound the ball w/ your head. Anyway, Beasley has a wingspan of over 7 feet and a standing reach of 8'11", greater than Noah and Horford, who are both centers in the league. Beasley's wingspan and standing reach more than compensates for his height.

Obviously Bill Clinton's at the top, and we all know who's at the bottom.



In IQ order:
182 ,  William J. Clinton (D)
175 ,  James E. Carter (D)
174 ,  John F. Kennedy (D)
155 ,  Richard M. Nixon (R)
147 ,  Franklin D. Roosevelt (D)
132 ,  Harry Truman (D)
126 ,  Lyndon B. Johnson (D)
122 ,  Dwight D. Eisenhower (R)
121 ,  Gerald Ford (R)
105 ,  Ronald Reagan (R)
098 , George Bush (R)
091 ,  George W. Bush (R)


The six Republican presidents of the past 50 years had an average IQ of 115.5, with President Nixon having the highest at 155. President G.W. Bush rated the lowest of all the Republicans with an IQ of 91.

The six Democrat presidents had IQs with an average of 156, with President Clinton having the highest IQ, at 182. President Lyndon B. Johnson was rated the lowest of all the Democrats with an IQ of 126.



Among comments made concerning the specific testing of President GW Bush, his low ratings are due to his apparently difficult command of the English language in public statements, his limited use of vocabulary (6,500 words for Bush versus an average of 11,000 words for other presidents), his lack of scholarly achievements other than a basic MBA, and an absence of any body of work which could be studied on an intellectual basis.

The complete report documents the methods and procedures used to arrive at these ratings, including depth of sentence structure and voice stress confidence analysis. "All the Presidents prior to George W. Bush had a least one book under their belt, and most had written several white papers during their education or early careers. Not so with President Bush," Dr. Lovenstein said. "He has no published works or writings, which made it more difficult to arrive at an assessment. We relied more heavily on transcripts of his unscripted public speaking."


Source: http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/11/274472.shtml

I'll love see to Obama's IQ as opposed to McCains

Well, both are surefire top 10 players of all time. I think Shaq will have the greater legacy because of his four rings, because he dominated his era so completely in his prime (given the lack of quality bigs), because of his charisma, because of his quotable nature, and because he appeals to the streetball culture. He's much more marketable and more of a household name than Hakeem. Both have unique styles, but Shaq's just seems much more appealing to many casual fans.

I believe Hakeem was better because he was able to lead one of the worst championship casts in the league to a ring in 1994 and because he beat Shaq in 1995 despite having less help. (I also understand that Shaq's teammates choked, which didn't help his case, but it was a 4-0 sweep for the Rockets.) I believe his offense is underrated because he did his work against frequent double and triple teams. I believe that his early game is underappreciated, as he was able to team up with Sampson to beat the Showtime Lakers in six in their primes. I know that he was as complete a defensive big as I have ever seen, whereas Shaq could be abused on the pick and roll. I believe that Hakeem's moves were not only more aesthetically pleasing, but more in line with the spirit of basketball. I question whether Shaq would have been so dominant if his offensive fouls were called more consistently.

That's not to say that Shaq isn't a great player, or even a top 10 player. He dominated his position from 1999-2002 as much as I've ever seen anyone--but part of that is due to the pathetic state of the bigs in the NBA at that point. Shaq's resume speaks for itself, but I think Hakeem is better for the reasons I stated.

JeSoul:
Both he and Olowokandi are fighting for the title of biggest #1 pick bust of all-time. . . but Kwame is def winning!

I was watching the game on tv when he was booed everytime he touched the ball by his home crowd in LA last season. . . I felt bad for him, but it is his fault.

I would nominate Sam Bowie. He got drafted before Jordan

I dont even know how Kandi jumped up so high. He had a decent sophomore campaign the year prior to the draft and noone heard about him. Suddenly, here's a 7 footer dropping 22 & 11 at a smaller D1 school. GM's drool at any big man who averages 20 & 10 in college, and the Clippers bit it hard. Same goes for Raef LaFrentz that year, practically a 20-10 guy for one season at KU, and he goes #3.

doyin13:
Butter fingers is okay at least if you can play defence.

He was a seven footer with some athleticism before all the fat.

He could have been a notch better than Tyson Chandler.

No, relatively small hands can be OK, if he had a brain, another weakness.

His b-ball IQ was incredibly low.

doyin13:
Kwame Brown could have been something. . . .Its a shame he paid
more attention to his local hamburger joint than to his jumphook.

He has butterfingers, his biggest weakness IMO

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=143923.msg2446526#msg2446526 date=1214933338]And who told you Paul Allen will fold his arms and watch you guys buy the best players?[/quote]Miami has more flexibility now and will have much more flexibility by then. That Portland team is now stacked with young talent (Aldridge, Roy, Bayless, Oden, Batum, Outlaw, etc.). Allen will be writing alot of fairly big checks in the near future forcing them to go over the cap and would have to settle for the MLE. It would be impossible to win the bidding war against Miami using the MLE (about 4.7 million -- average NBA player salary)

By then, Miami will be well under the cap after Blount, Davis and Marions contracts are all expired.

You have to understand that the NBA is not like baseball where there is no cap.

And even if this wasn't the case, for LeBron, getting his name out so he can become the first billionaire athlete is just as important as winning a title. There is no way he's going to a small market like Portland when the bright lights of NYC or Miami can offer him so much more hype and exposure.

JeSoul:
the same Bease that is yet to play 1 second in the nba? Let us see him play first, then we can confidently say he's a team-changer.
Remember how over-hyped, espn-documentary specialed, drafted-by-MJ Kwame brown was? n he was supposed to be the great center the league had seen in years?
Until these rookies play and prove themselves, I don't buy into them at all.

With all due respect to Kwame, he isn't worth a fine air on Beasley's ass.

Kwame was straight from high school. No one had seen him play against guys his own size and skill level, he didnt do very well. He was drafted on height alone and potential.

Beasley on the other hand has played a year in college and he had one of the best freshman seasons in recent memory. He was easily the best player in a much higher level of competition, can flat out score and rebound, something Kwame does neither of.

Beasley is more of a sure thing b/c he played and dominated in college. Kwame came straight out of HS. Nobody is really a sure thing, but he has a much much better chance than Kwame. Come on.

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=143923.msg2446376#msg2446376 date=1214931747]@Jesoul
I can only help but wonder because all these combinations will confuse even Pat Riley.On the GM thingy lets start with the Knicks or the Grizzlies lol.At least you would teach them a thing or two on how not to give up their franchise player for Kwame Brown!!

Lebron will have to go sometime!

SeanT1 is in D.C shouldnt she be down with Arenas and Co.

D'Antoni well with all those dollar bills he should be able to get a good doctor




@millco
Lebron,Amare,Bosh? you want Cleveland,Phoenix and Toronto to give you their franchise players you must be on some first class Uhh-Weee[/quote]Those guys are free agents by 2010 They will be expected the top dollar from the highest bidder. Miami has the second richest owner (by far) in the league.

JeSoul:
which kin long 'tori be this now? Do you work for the heat with this kind of prediction/analysis you've noveled here? I only have so much time in one day you know

Anyways if what you were trying to say is that the addition of a good free agent will lead to a dynasty in Miami, then you can say that for pretty much 1/3rd of the teams in the NBA. I don't think Wade will last too long, he's just not a durable player.

Not quite. A Wade-Marion-Beasley tandem is quite formidable. Only few teams in league possess a trio of that caliber. But again, this is all pending a 100% Wade. He may have to refine his game a lil bit.

But, overall I think the Heat need to stay patient. If they don't feel any of those players from my list will make this team a championship level team, don't go out and spend the money on them. The main goal, or at least in Rileys mind is the 2010 FA class. If they can add a Bosh or somebody of his caliber, then I'd do that in a second over Iggy/Josh Smith, etc. . . Now that's a potential dynasty. And Riley looks like he might be exercising that.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53282/20080630/miami_unlikely_to_ink_long_term_free_agent_deals/

Seems like its a forgone conclusion that Pat Riley will wait till 2010. Pat Riley is putting the cards on the table, take 2 year deal or move on. All the talk about free agents and trades, think about it again, unless its expring in 2010 or before it has 99.9 chance of not happening.

But can the Heat sign somebody next off season to a near maximum salary without sacrificing the cap space in the 2010 off season that could bring the Heat another maximum salary player?

I think Luol Deng is a perfect fit between Wade and Beasley. This dude is an assassin from the mid range right now, so he's got all the tools to become a spot up threat from three point land eventually.

And if the Heat are able to save some room in the 2010 off season, they could go for a superstar. So hopefully he does the same thing as this year's restricted free agents, and goes ahead and signs the one year tender to become a free agent in two years. Any team with Wade, Beasley (even if he's 80% of what the experts think) and either:

LeBron
Amare
Bosh

will compete for a title every year for awhile, I think Riley knows that and is willing to roll the dice!

And you know what I LIKE IT. . .

From the minute the Heat traded Shaq, Pat Riley and many of our fans started obsessing about how to land our next 20/10 post presence to complement Wade and make us champs again. Most experts and fans are of the opinion that the heat now have that 20/10 PF in the form of Michael Beasley -- and we have to assume Riley & Co believe so as well or else they wouldn't have taken him.

Now that Wade/Beasley are in place and should be fixtures for years to come, our focus MUST shift from the Boozer/Brand obsession of the past few months to giving Wade/Beasley exactly what they need to become champions. So what do we do? Who is this magical, signable player in 2009 who can come in and have such an impact . . .and who doesn't already play SG or PF where we are all set?

What we've all been missing (Riley too) is that probably a third (or even half) of the restricted guys on the market THIS offseason will just end up signing one-year tenders, and be UNRESTRICTED in 12 months. All are young/improving and fit with Wade/Beasley better than the older Boozer and Brand would. The list:

Restricted This Year - Maybe a Third/Half of Them UNRESTRICTED Next Year
- Josh Smith ,  taller, younger Marion --- absolutely ideal fit offensively and defensively
- Emeka Okafor ,  much needed defensive presence at center and under basket
- Andre Iguodala ,  awesome at SF next to Wade/Beasley
- Monta Ellis ,  ridiculous backcourt combo with Wade, can play 12 years with Beasley
- Andris Biedrins ,  top young center, hard to find, leaves money for another FA too
- Luol Deng ,  see Iguadola
- Ben Gordon ,  wouldn't fit as well as other guys, but deadly shooter and solid defender
- Jose Calderon ,  sets up Wade and Beasley for years like no one's business
- Louis Williams ,  cheaper than other guys, allowing us to sign two FAs
- Josh Childress ,  same as Lou Williams

Add that to unrestricted's next year who would fit for shorter term
- Baron Davis
- Lamar Odom
- Ron Artest (plus someone else)
- Allen Iverson
- Corey Maggette (could be FA next yr, we'll see)
- Andre Miller (plus someone else)
- Rasheed Wallace (plus someone else)
- Jason Kidd (bleh)

Plus some restricted's next year who are probably attainable with nice offer
- Marvin Williams
- Ray Felton
- Other dudes who would also leave us with money for someone else


Possible "Big 3s" Until Wade Retires
- Wade/Josh Smith/Beasley
- Wade/Beasely/Okafor
- Wade/Iguadola/Beasley
- Wade/Deng/Beasley

Possible "Big 3's" for Shortterm Title Runs
- Iverson/Wade/Beasley
- B Davis/Wade/Beasley
- Wade/Odom/Beasley
- Wade/Maron/Beasley ,  duh
- or a psychotic Big 4 of Wade/Artest/Beasley/RWallace

By rule, whatever restricted guys don't sign multi-year deals this year will be unrestricted free agents next year.

I listed I think 10 impact guys who are in that position this year, and it wouldn't be surprising to see a couple of them not being able to come to terms with their cheap-ass teams, thus being unrestricted when we have max cap space in 12 months.

I'd like to have Bosh in 2010 too. But if I'm sitting there in 2009 with max cap space and someone like Josh Smith is there for the taking, then I call him at the stroke of midnight and he wants to come to Miami and take what we have to offer, why should I pass on that 100% commitment from him to wait another year for like a 10% chance at Bosh? That would be a big mistake, IMO.

That's like when we had cap space for Brand/Odom in 2003, should we have said "No, let's just wait. We'll have even more cap space next year when Kobe Bryant's a free agent, so let's wait and roll the dice on him." Of course not. If Brand or Odom says they'll sign with you RIGHT NOW, you take that 100% commitment rather than wait another year for a 10% chance at Kobe. That's exacty what Riley did in 2003 fortunately, and will do again if presented the same decision in 2009.

As far as Riley saying "we need to protect our backside for 2010" , it's pretty obvious to me that means we're not going to take any more Banks-like contracts that will tie up the cap that summer JUST IN CASE WADE LEAVES and we need to use his resulting space to rebuild. In other words, don't take on any bad contracts and *assume* you'll just go over the cap to re-sign Wade in 2010 , You need to protect your backside in case he leaves, and if he does you need to have that $15 mill available to get someone else. Which you would have regardless of whether you got a big FA in 2009.

The phrase "protecting your backside in 2010" doesn't mean we're going to sit out free agency for the next two years. It just means if Wade decides to leave, we need to make sure we are $15 mill under the cap to replace him, which again we would be even if we maxed out someone in 2009. We'd have Beasley+2009max guy + a few scrubs, leaving plenty of space to replace Wade if he left.

I dunno, I guess we'll see how things play out. If Riley had no interest in a 2009 free agent, this thread wouldn't exist in the first place. The point of it was to look at other possible 2009 free agents beside Brand/Boozer, who Riley is rumored to be very interested in. If he had no interest in anyone until 2010, Brand and Bozer wouldn't even be in the equation to begin with.

THE FUTURE IS NOW

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=143923.msg2433742#msg2433742 date=1214676468]@doyin
I agree his contract was over bloated but i think thats widespread across the whole Nba there are a lot of players that shouldnt be earning half of what they are but Marion brings a lot to the table and you can't sweat that[/quote]I agree on all fronts, including his inability to create his own shot. One Heat journalist predicted Marion will no longer be with the Heat by this season.
Marion is a very good player. It's just his contract. Riley made a offer only for Marions agent not to respond.

That Marion for Odom & Farmer deal is tempting.

doyin13:
Guy, speak English

But seriously. . , I feel stats are overated. A bloody American pastime.

I know what I see, and what me I see is an overpaid Shawn Marion. Kapish

Never argued against that. It'll help to learn some comprehension skills.

You compared him to James Posey. That's where the problem began.

That's an insult to Marion.

doyin13:
Abegi. . . .Na Stats we wan chop

That's all ya got?

I base my logic on factual, objective evidence and that's what you can bring to the table?

doyin13:
Oh Brother. . . .do tell.

Does he rebound so much better, or is he a far better shooter.?

Enlighten me

If Posey is nearly as good as Marion, then why isn't he a starter? There is a reason. Look at their per 36 minutes stats, and come back to me.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/poseyja01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mariosh01.html

Marion: 17.4 PPG | 9.6 RPG | 1.9 APG | 1.8 SPG | 1.3 BPG | .481 FG | .341 3-PT | .821 FT | 1.5 TPG
Posey: 11.9 PPG | 6.3 RPG | 2.3 APG | 1.5 SPG | 0.5 BPG | .416 FG | .351 3-PT | .820 FT | 1.6 TPG

And thats playing the same # of minutes. Marion virtually destroys Posey in just about every category while committing less turnovers

[img]http://youtube.com/watch?v=BsCrHKx-Lq4[/img]

doyin13:
The heat are in my shit list because of Riley. What an opportunist.
He kicked Van Gundy out so he could take all the glory. Somebody say S-n-a-k-e

And can someone please tell me why Shawn Marion has such a huge contract.
All that money for a defensive stopper. I don't see James Posey getting anywhere
near what he gets. Nba is the league democracy forgot.

About the Nets. . . . . . .After all these moves, if they don't get Lebron in '10
ol boy, the owners will sure love to get rid of the team. Good young talent
though. oh yes, bloody Vince Carter who has morphed into a jumpshooter
should get shifted. To the Celtics hopefully.

Riley didn't run SVG outta town. Shaq ran SVG outta town, chief.

And Marion is a MUCH BETTER PLAYER than Posey. Poseys a poor man's Marion.
Posey just happens to be the perfect role player.
Marion does everything at the highest level.

JeSoul:
"potential" is the key word in there brotha and "If"
Marion is a more than solid player, versatile I give you that
And I'm factoring in injury-prone Wade, who by the way will not be getting any rest this summer, showing up for the new season already partially spent, does not bode well for the heat.

With Riley as our GM, anything is possible. I'm sure he will find a way to get us the big, rebound and shot-blocking C that we lack.

Look what he did yesterday at the draft. The guy is brilliant. He got us a solid PG for a bag of rocks. We were rated as having the best draft by ESPN.

Beasley is more a sure thing. Certainly not a potential player. Not strickly a mere potential player, as you claim.

Potential players are guys like Jordan, Randolph, and Rose. Beasley was able to put up 26/12 consistently in a major conference while getting triple-teamed on a nightly basis. He has had by the far the best freshman season in recent memory, broke the double-double record for a freshman, etc.

And barring a Wade injury, I think this team is ready 2 years.

JeSoul:
chalmers + wade + marion + beasley + mle center = dynasty = dreaming

A starting line-up with 2 rookies up front, neither named Michael Jordan, and you hope for a dynasty? that's a very big word. At best 2nd tier playoffs standing between 6-8 next couple years. Wade will soon relocate as soon as that contract expires in '10 depending on who shows him the money.

You have a superstar, another potential superstar, the perfect PG to complement Wade and a top 25 player in Marion. If we add a MLE center a la Diop, we can compete w/ the Big 3.

And I didn't even mention Haslem.

chalmers + wade + marion + beasley + mle center = dynasty

[quote author=gabe_logan link=topic=143923.msg2397555#msg2397555 date=1213971914]haslem is not a star player. he is good, no doubt, but not a SOLID power foward. and besides he was averaging 12ppg and 9 rpg, less than 1 block a game (0.4)!!! he was turning over the ball almost as much as he dished out assists.

i can count about 20 power fowards that i think are better than haslem. he's a decent player.[/quote]Haslem is a very solid PF. He gets rebounds and plays good defense. Also has a surprising offensive game where he can score if you need him to or if a team leaves him open he can knock down a 15 footer. He plays his role great as a hustle player. He played great on the Heat championship run fit in and played his role awsome.

I would like you name 20 better PFs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-3ROv_MsNs

[quote author=gabe_logan link=topic=143923.msg2395428#msg2395428 date=1213925248]BESIDES WADE AND MARION, THE HEAT DONT HAVE SOLID PLAYERS. THEY'LL NEED MORE THAN BEASELY TO BE CONTENDERS. I STILL FANCY BOSTON WINNING THE TITLE NEXT SEASON.

WATCH OUT FOR MY TEAM, THE NEW YORK KNICKS NEXT SEASON UNDER NEW COACH MIKE D'ANTONI (THEY SHOULD HAVE FIRED ISAIAH EARLIER). AND WATCH OUT FOR MY BOY EDDY (BIG ED, EDDY PICANTE, MR ED) CURRY.[/quote]Haslem isn't solid? a 14-10 PF that plays great defense. What more could you ask for?

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinajournal/2008/06/19/in-south-africa-chinese-is-the-new-black/?mod=yhoofront

Interesting.

Draft night on the 26th. If Miami drafts Beasley, that could be a dangerous tandem in the future w/ Wade. Not to mention Marion.

Are the Heat instantly contenders next season?