Lucasbalo:
You hush your trap. What the heck do you know about Health Insurance in Developed Countries. Stick to your no electricity, mosquitos and rats invested cave you live in. Civilized people are talking, village masquerade is ranting too.

This is not a valid argument.

Lucasbalo:
This post you posted is pure junk. Even the Senate Republicans accepted that they will write their own health care law from the beginning because the one you are supporting from the House is dead on arrival at the Senate. Sometimes you get carried away thinking you are lecturing people who have no idea how things work in US. You meant Medicaid that your beloved repubkicans propose to cut hundreds of billions of $ from. Please get your facts right. If Senate Reoublicans are backing away from trump care, I guess you know more than the Republican Senators.

Most laws passed in the house always get amended and re organized in the senate. If you are familiar with the process, You will know this. Even the ACA was re written in the senate.

Bernie sanders's utopia

pchukwudi:


Nonetheless, it's worth the effort since hitting their decomposed brains with the spicy aroma of facts has the same effect as shining the sunlight on the bare face of the living deads. It compels them to crawl back to their tomb of self delusion in a flash.

GOLD!

Mindfulness:

In my country and many others they do. But you can compare yours to Romania.

Not a valid argument. I just showed you evidence that discredits your narrative. You're entitled to your own opinions, but you're not entitled to your own facts.

Mindfulness:

If it was, we would not have the discussion we are having genius.

If you understand the what public policy means maybe you will understand the point of the discussion.

Mindfulness:

You are even unable to distinguish between the public and private sector. There is no hope for you.

Public healthcare already accept people with pre existing conditions. The whole argument is about private health insurance companies.

Now answer the question : since you cant get a car insurance after accidents happen. why do you want private insurance to cover the cost of pre existing conditions when you buy medical insurance without high premiums?

Mindfulness:

That's why people file for bankruptcy when they get sick and that's why Trumpeto thinks that Australia's healthcare system is better.

But you will prefer private companies to file for bankruptcy when they are forced to insure people with pre existing conditions. If ACA was so great why are those insurance companies dropping out?. So what should happen next when they are out of business or drop out of the program because of the cost?

Mindfulness:


What is there to explain? Everyone has access to health care. Even the mentally ill.
Something you deprive yourself of because you think that profits are more important than human life.
See, even Greece is better than the US in terms of healthcare.

The posts reads : With only about a third of cases receiving the therapy or medication needed

I thought you said everyone have access? what happened?

Mindfulness:

Like I said, inform yourself first before you make a fo.ol of yourself. The government runs the healthcare sector, the citizens pay for it via taxes or premiums and depending on the income. Everyone pays! That's why it is affordable for everyone.

The government does not run the healthcare sector in America, The market does, that is why the incentive must be there for it to thrive unlike government run practices in Europe, Canada and Australia. So when you ask me if doctors in those countries work for free, The first thing you should have done is to look at the different market and realize that your question was meaningless. like i said, try and keep up.

Mindfulness:

For the same reason that you do not get a car insurance after the accident happened. Very simple genius.

Thank you for agreeing with the point i was trying to make with this self contradictory post. since you cant get a car insurance after accidents happen. why do you want private insurance to cover the cost of pre existing conditions when you buy medical insurance without high premiums?

Mindfulness:

Again, genius, the private insurance is an extra.

Same case here. Medicaid, Medicare and CHIP covers most pre existing conditions. Private insurance "is an extra".

Mindfulness:


Me? Keep up!? Girl! I live in a country where there is no price tag attached to human life. We value our citizens, rich or poor, healthy or unhealthy, smart or stupid more than an insurance company's business and we have been smart enough to establish a system that benefits EVERYONE, the companies and more importantly the sick.

Then i would love you to explain this since the system benefits EVERYONE:

Europeans are plagued by mental and neurological illnesses, with almost 165 million people or 38 per cent of the population suffering each year from a brain disorder such as depression, anxiety, insomnia or dementia, according to a large new study.

With only about a third of cases receiving the therapy or medication needed, mental illnesses cause a huge economic and social burden - measured in the hundreds of billions of euros - as sufferers become too unwell to work and personal relationships break down.

"Mental disorders have become Europe's largest health challenge of the 21st century," the study's authors said.

At the same time, some big drug companies are backing away from investment in research on how the brain works and affects behaviour, putting the onus on governments and health charities to stump up funding for neuroscience.

And this:

Waiting times for non-emergency surgical interventions vary widely across EU countries. Some have made progress in reducing waiting times over the past few years, while in others such as Portugal, Spain and Greece, they have started to rise. This is probably the result of surgeons leaving those countries for better pay and facilities abroad.

Mindfulness:

And when I say that you are not (yet) smart, you think it is an insult.
Do you think doctors and nurses work for free in Australia, Canada or Europe?

I wasn't kidding when i said you should try and keep up. Most doctors in Australia, Canada and Europe are paid by the government. Most American doctors have private practice or work in a private hospital.

Mindfulness:

Are you seriously thinking that insurance companies in other countries where the healthcare system is better than in the US - for instance in Australia according to Trumpeto - are charity organizations?

Australia's health laws answered your question here:

Why do health insurers impose waiting periods for pre-existing conditions?

Because anyone who’s fallen ill could sign up for health insurance, claim on this cover immediately, and then leave. Insurers would have to shoulder the costs, and then these costs would be passed on to others who hold health insurance policies…in the form of more expensive premiums. It’s essentially for the same reasons why health funds impose waiting periods.

If Australia's perfect health care systems is putting something in place for people with pre existing conditions, What exactly are you wailing about?

Mindfulness:


Id.iotic statement of the highest order. Tell that to the people who cannot afford an insurance because companies charge them fortunes due to preexisting conditions.

It is simple logic. If insurance a company charge lets say $100 premium and pay out $10,000 in medical cost. It is no longer a business and will go bankrupt. Insurance companies calculate premiums based on risks not emotion. Try to keep up .

Mindfulness:

I know it is impossible for you to grasp it but in some countries healthcare is accessible to all like education or infrastructure because there is the underlying conviction that healthcare should not be primarily used to make business but to help people. This is patriotism and respect for life.

Keep supporting the pro-death party though

If healthcare is not a businesses, why should medical students pay a lot of money to get a degree and spend over 6 years in training for what you think is a free commodity ? You cant help people with someone else labor for free. People practice medicine not only because of their passion but the financial incentive it brings, if you remove the incentive, There will be fewer doctors.

Mindfulness:

People who cannot afford it.

If the same Insurance companies mandated to cover these people without considering burden on them go out of business, they will be back in the same spot. So what should happen then?

Mindfulness:


You still don't get it.
Private insurance in Australia is an extra. Public healthcare is accessible to all, not only the needy. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

And if you want to know who does not have access to healthcare, ask your fellow Americans or read the personal accounts I posted yesterday or better so have a look at all those people, especially in the red Southern states, who walk around without teeth.

Besides, yesterday you were accusing people of being socialists for demanding access to healthcare for all and today you are acting like everybody has access to healthcare. So are you a socialist country today?

What?!
Private insurance in Australia is an extra. Public healthcare is accessible to all, not only the needy. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

This doesn't make any sense. The "needy" are the people that needs more public option so how is that a bad thing? It seems like you want the Rich to have access to public insurance too. why?


ACCESS to healthcare is a right, RIGHT to healthcare or health insurance is not. Two different things. That will depend on how much you have and what your condition is. Simple English.

You made a claim when you said this: "Unlike in the US, in Australia the system is accessible to everyone"

So tell me who doesnt have access to healthcare in America?

Mindfulness:


In one moment you pretend to understand healthcare systems around the world and in the other you expose your utter ignorance.

In the early 1970s the Australian Commonwealth government created a public health system, called Medicare, some of which still remains.
But there is widespread use of private health insurance to help people cover a cost that is commonly called "the gap",.
"The gap" means the gap between the amount that the public system pays for a service that you get from a medico, and the amount that you pay to the medico for the service.

In public health facilities, you don't pay - all doctors are employed by the public system and they don't charge the patients.

But there are many many doctors and hospitals that are not part of the public system.

These private sector suppliers can get reimbursed from the public system, when they provide services that are covered by what is effectively a list of government subsidised services, but some (many in some areas) charge more than the public system will pay for a service.

And not all medicines are on the list of subsidised medicines that is maintained by the government.

there is a safety net there for every person, regardless of their ability to pay.

It's true that there are holes in every net (eg dental is not well supported), and sometimes people fall through the holes, but overall it is a good system to live with

Unlike in the US, in Australia the system is accessible to everyone. Private insurance and private facilities are a matter of choice.
So inform yourself first before you spew rubbish.

You keep arguing in a circle.

If You are poor in America, You get medicaid
People with low income get medicaid
Old people use Medicare
Poor kids use CHIP
mid income earners usually use private insurance provided by their employers
Rich people buy private insurance
people who use to have insurance and lose their jobs use COBRA
The people without any form of insurance still get treated under EMTALA ( even illegals)

Only people with pre existing conditions have limited access in both countries

So tell me who doesnt have access to public or private healthcare here?

Mindfulness:


Before you pretend to be an expert on healthcare systems around the world, educate yourself.
Health care in Australia is provided by both private institutions and the government.
The publicly funded healthcare is universal. It coexists with a private healthcare system. So unlike in your GREAT AMERICA nobody is threatened by bankruptcy for the simple reason that they are ill.

You are dvmber than I thought. FACT! No alternatives.

Using insults to mask your ignorance. Health care in America is also provided by private institutions and the government. The public healthcare ( Medicaid and Medicare) co exist with private healthcare in America. Poor and old Americans have a program already and it has expanded over the last 10 years. The main reason why most people are threatened with bankruptcy is because they have limited options with their prescription ( blame both parties for that)

Your solution is to bankrupt insurance companies by telling them who to insure even thou the perfect example you cited ( Australia) is not doing that. But Republicans are evil and Australians are not

You are all over the place without answering the simple question

Lucasbalo:
Another first by our Bigoted President. We have something called Cinco De Mayo which is Fifth of May that is celebrated by Mexicans in America. It's been an official celebration since 16 years ago in the White House by George W. Now the clown in chief put a stop to it to appease his white nationalists supporters. A cabinet that has only one black and no Hispanics in a diverse and multicultural country. What a shame.

The labor secretary is Hispanic.

Mindfulness:


And yet their healthcare system is better than yours.
Ask your Master Trump.

Are Australians with a better health care system evil for mandating a one year waiting period for people with pre existing conditions which can lead to their death?

Question you will never answer

Mindfulness:


President Trump met with Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull where he praised the country's health-care system, shortly after House Republicans passed a bill to overhaul the U.S. health-care system.




Bury your heads in shame. You and all the other supporters. Even Trump is laughing at you.

Australian health funds generally impose a 12 month waiting period before you can claim on a pre-existing condition.

Is it evil if patients wait for a year before claiming benefits?. Irony is laughing at you

Wailing over issues that have nothing to do with you.

Mindfulness:


Get lost!

Not a valid argument

Mindfulness:


A woman from New York:

Disappointment is not the emotion here.

As a nurse, I think back to a day of a 29 year old dad in an isolation bed on an oncology unit I needed to see because of his insurance. He had two small kids on his bed. His condition was critical.

His insurance was through his employer.

But, I wonder if he lost his job, lost his coverage along the way, he could still get coverage through the ACA, Obamacare, because he would have no worry about pre-existing conditions, nor would he have to be concerned about lifetime caps.

Today that changes. Today he can indeed be worried. Republicans have tossed his life aside hither skither. The very people elected to protect this young man may have thoughtlessly left him helpless.

And what about those two little kids, now a little older. Would they lose their daddy? Would they live a life of angst and poverty because at twenty nine years old their dad had cancer and may still or once again need treatment?

And what do these legislators do? They sing "hey, hey, hey good bye" and go party in the Rose Garden at the White House with Donald Trump, a billionaire.

Today's emotion? Devastation.

If you loose your job you don't loose your insurance if you enroll to COBRA and it will cover the same thing that was covered when you are employed So, if your medical conditions were covered under that plan they will continue to be covered under COBRA

Mindfulness:
In the US, thanks to the Reps, if you have a preexisting mental health condition, you can buy a firearm, but not get health insurance.

False equivalence.

people buying guns are not going to be paying monthly premiums

Mindfulness:


Yeah, oligarchs from Romania. The rest are laughing at your stupidity.

You should keep reading maybe you will notice what I said after that

raumdeuter:


These people dont seem to get one simple thing, This is America and things are done differently. Europe is more socialistic leaning and America is Capitalist. This is America, and they are not trying to be like Europe

For all the ills in America, I will still take my chances here than elsewhere.

In Obamacare people were dropping out and would rather pay a fine that continue to have their premium rise to care for the sick. In America there is already Medicaid and CHIP to care for the poor and elderly

Exactly!.

Lucasbalo:
The same way some people hide their faces too.

Yea because this is a forum and not facebook. Everybody can be a billionaire behind the computer screen

Lucasbalo:
Let me ask you what should happen to children born with Type 1 diabetics or Autism?. They should just die off according to you because they couldn't afford insurance.

They have CHIP and medicaid. Drugs cost can be reduced if patients are allowed to buy drugs abroad from developed countries and premiums can go down if state barriers are removed.

Now i have my own question

What should we do when insurance companies go bankrupt because payouts is way too much than they receive in premiums?

Lucasbalo:
If I am a socialist, believe me I am making out very well being one. You can only imagine the kind of socialistic life I live in Chicagoland.

I don't care about your life good or bad. that is your problem.

Anybody can claim to have billions anonymously online that doesn't make it true comrade

Lucasbalo:
Yes, that can feed and house you without missing a beat. That's the kind of Socialist I am.

You think companies should not think about profits first but instead make decisions based on emotions without considering the CBA. That makes you a socialist

Lucasbalo:
That is why I supported Single Payer like our neighbor to the North. No one in Europe is coming to America for healthcare. That's republican propaganda. This republican healthcare will save my wife and I money but like I said, I don't want America to turn to Nigeria where quality health care is for the Uber Rich alone but you will see your Amen corner here who couldn't afford good health care in Nigeria clapping for you. It's a shame guys that can hardly feed three times daily are spouting junks been thrown out by republicans. How come republican senators are coming out against it now. Infact, couple of them said it's DOA .

I meant Canada.

The Fraser Institute, a Canadian public policy think tank, estimates that 52,513 Canadians received non-emergency medical treatment in the U.S. and other countries in 2014, a 25 percent jump from the roughly 41,838 who sought medical care abroad the previous year.


In citing those numbers in its 2015 report, "Leaving Canada for Medical Care," the organization said difficulties in obtaining timely medical care at home is, increasingly, leading Canadians to seek it abroad. "It is possible [they] may have left the country to avoid some of the adverse medical consequences of waiting for care, such as worsening of their condition, poorer outcomes following treatment, disability, or death," the report says. "Some may leave simply to avoid delay and to make a quicker return to normal life."

Canadians could expect to wait 9.8 weeks for medically necessary treatment after seeing a specialist in 2014, the researchers found, three weeks more than the time physicians considered to be clinically "reasonable."

Lucasbalo:
You shut your trap. I am a capitalist to the core . I don't want America to turn to Nigeria where women die during childbirth or where people die from malaria. What do yo know about health care. You are just a compound fool that have to mouth off about things you have no clue about. My family have the best insurance money can buy but I am not worried about myself. I believe in the general good for all over few people. That's the problem with Nigeria where your elites can travel abroad for good medical care while people like you die if treatable diseases. Go get a life cave man.

No you are a socialist. You think companies should be forced to insure people that will make them go bankrupt because it is for the greater good.

You cant force your standards on everyone because you can afford it (allegedly). That is what socialists do

obixcel:
Lol He's now an advocate for the socialist

confirmed socialist.

Lucasbalo:
It is your position that defies logic. Like I said, US is the only country in the world to have a health for profit business. Infact, I was angling for single payer like the one in Europe, Australia and Canada when ACA was being debated during Obama's time but unfortunately we got hunged up to dry by Republicons. My wife and I premiums went up by almost $7.000 due to ACA but I told my wife it's worth it for millions of Americans to be able to get healthcare. I don't want America to be like Third World countries where people die of Malaria and Thyphoid because they don't have access to good health care. I believe in common good for all over good for few elites. What happens to Children with Type 1 diabetics or children born with Autism?. They can't be covered by insurance because some rich billionaires will lose money. I didn't get a memo that you are a billionaire. The health care bill passed by the Republicons have been denounced by Kaiser Foundation, AHA, NIH and a lot of republican Senators are coming out against it . Plus over 20 million Americans will lose their insurance. I bet that gladdens your souless heart that 24 million Americans will not have access to quality healthcare. Go girl, you deserve a Gold medal for meanness.

US is the only country in the world to have a health for profit business yet it is one of the top destination for medical tourist from Europe with all their healthcare.

There is nobody dying of Malaria or Typhoid in America. So if you can afford 7,000 in premiums what is your solution for those who cant afford it?

stanech:



Lucas.... so predictable

I am waiting for the day he is going to say this to those who supports his position but do not live in the US. Hypocrisy

Unemployment down to 4.4%. Lowest in a decade. 211k jobs added

Lucasbalo:
That is the problem for your ilks who have to carry the buckets for the billionaires that doesn't give a damn about you. I believe in the good for all over a selected few. There's a difference between Human life and house insurance. Some people were born with pre existing conditions like diabetics. Because they were born with diabetics, does that mean they should not be covered according to you and your heartless party ?. Infact, the new version of the republican healthcare is favorable to my wife and I due to our income scale but I don't want my beloved America to turn to a Third World country where people die of treatable diseases due to lack of insurance. People listening to you spit out your junk probably think you are a millionaire fighting for a good cause that benefits you but you are just carrying buckets for the Uber Rich who doesn't even recognize people like you exist. How come you always bring up my working in the Finance industry ?. Because I work in Finance industry should make me not have a heart for less fortunate Americans ?.

Typical rant without any substance. I did not attack you but you can't help your self you are insulting me again and trying to claim moral superiority when your arguments does not make any sense.

Businesses are there to make a profit. Insurance companies make money because the whole point is to take premiums from healthy people and pay their bills or most of it when they need it.

If you want insurance companies to insure sick people and expect premiums to stay low, that is financial ignorance. Why do you think many of them are dropping out of Obamacare, they are not charities they are businesses.

So your whole argument is that a person with diabetes should pay let's say $100 and get the insurance to cover $5000 treatment because you want the company to have mercy. So when the company goes bankrupt and stop covering that person, what will you do next? Billionaires should pay for it?

Your position defies logic.

Lucasbalo:
I sincerely believe that if Singke Payer is good for Canada and European countries, it is good for America. America is the only industrialized country in the world that makes her health care for profit entity. It's a big shame putting profits over human life.

You claim to work in the finance industry. But you think insurance companies should cover people with pre existing conditions. How are they going to make any money?

Can you buy home insurance the next day after your house burn down? This is extremely straight forward. Business exists to make money.

You end up with a system where healthy people are forced to pay the cost or premiums keep going up

Mindfulness:


I am from Europe. We are used to having a healthcare insurance and access to healthcare regardless of our social or health status. And not only in places like France, the UK, Germany or Netherlands but even in poorer countries.

You, however, despite your patriotism, can let your own people die like homeless dogs.

MAGA!

You keep making the same mistake with your answers.

This is an American political thread not an European one. Things are done differently here.

There is a program for poor Americans to access healthcare before Obamacare with over 600 billion budget ( Medicaid), Medicare for old people and most people that are in the work force get insurance from their employers

Now I would love you to answer my question.
Why do you think insurance companies should cover pre existing conditions?