okuta007:


you called me ignorant and i don’t deserve that - lastly the CRBP clearly states what required for my little niece to become a citizen and none of your advise here apply

the DNA the father conducted on his own is kit admissible at the US consulate - they will only accept a DNA result that they request and yiu have to do it at a place they require. - and all the evidence of the father’s residence in the US at least 5 years before my niece was born - they are all states there on the website

no where was it stated that if both parents have disagreements- then certain sections of the required will be waived - they only said if the US parent is unavailable because he is the US he can send the documents in

so if the baby dad decides not to report the child because the mother plays dirty with him where will that leave the little child ?


so don’t come here and misinform people

of you have any evidence where US citizens was given to a child born abroad without any of these requirements please post it here - we are not illiterates and stop subscribing to blank emotions - i want the best for my little niece and i don’t want my cousin to make mistakes because she didn’t apply wisdom

thanks and have a good day!

“So don’t come here and misinform people”. Because you are not aware of the process and can’t find it under one jurisdiction doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Evidence of absence and absence of evidence are similar but distinct concepts. But evidence of absence certainly does not equate to absence of evidence. You have quoted one jurisdiction, the Department of State. There are others with parallel authority under which similar processes are run: Homeland Security and the DOJ. It has been done before.

okuta007:



my brother u seem to be so bitter - what’s your win in this matter ? the matter no concern me - i can afford not to pick my cousins calls and the sky will not fall - i can’t argue with u i nairaland over what i will not be paid a dime for - please channel your bitterness elsewhere abeg

you talk about evidence - where is my cousin going to get the evidence that the baby daddy was here in America for at least 5 years and a citizen of the US before the child was born ? where is she going to get his paychecks and utilities information to establish residence ? or have u not visited the CRBA website before ? that is of the guy is even a US citizen sef

the only thing i said here is that even if all your lies here stands are u going to provide security for my cousin - should in case there is problem that leads to revenge - u have carefully avoided that part - since u can’t speak on that i conceded you surely don’t mean well


abeg rest for the matter - the matter no concern u except u are bitter about someone or something else unrelated to this thread

u seem to be attacking me - am just a messenger oooo e no concern me- na beg i dey beg u - online lawyer that doesn’t even know the facts of the matter - and judging already based on emotions, na me dey open thread na me dey beg make u rest

you win - go get a life

thanks

“When you can’t establish your points with facts, you resort to name calling”
You’ve called me bitter, a liar, befuddling, judgemental with absolutely nothing to go on. I have responded only with facts and references. The internet never forgets!

okuta007:


the bolded parts show you lack comprehension and outbursting on emotions —- the child will get citizenship after registering and the child has not registered and the only person who can register the child is the very man u want her to fight abi?

and the CRBA laws requiring the man in the US presenting all the documents will be suspended for my cousin’s sake - because my cousin’s child is made of gold ? they will circumvent the law for her sake abi ?

and the Ghana or Nigerian guy posting pictures on facebook- of affluence, how does this relate to the case here ? did i tell u the guy was posting pictures of affluence ?

once again, comparing apples to oranges

and you never mentioned how you will provide my cousin security if somehow evil people decides to do her harm


and how come u never mentioned why US embassy never pay Nigerian security guards US dollars since the US can not stand anybody anywhere in the world being short changed


homeless people full here for America even hundreds of thousands of Children born world wide by US parents never get attention na my cousin for Auchi America won carry out for head abi?

Americans were left behind in Afghanistan - abandoned - even US green card holders were left behind captured on TV in Afganistan - althea na my cousin for Auchi America won fight for ?


bros e don do, na people like u go hype people to their death and when it happens na only RIP u go say - u will quietly withdraw into your lane


thanks for the advise - we won’t take it, rest for the matter, Mr Lawyer - thanks

"the bolded parts show you lack comprehension and outbursting on emotions —- the child will get citizenship after registering and the child has not registered and the only person who can register the child is the very man u want her to fight abi?" and the CRBA laws requiring the man in the US presenting all the documents will be suspended for my cousin’s sake

So you think a woman seeking her child's rights is fighting the father of her child? Sigh. Once again you make statements you know nothing about. I stated clearly that this can happen (and has happened in the past) with or without the fathers consent or active participation. If you don't know how, ask. Don't just assume I am as ignorant as you are on these matters. The agency does not require the man to present the evidence. It requires the evidence. Big difference! I can refer you once again but this time refrain to do so as you have chosen to take the low road. Have I not debunked all the frivolous directly related points you raised, proving that you know absolutely nothing about this process? I refuse to delve into any of the other sentimental stuff you have raised which is extraneous to the issue. If you can't fathom that the other examples I gave are proof that this has been done successfully before then so be it. When child support is established, is that not the same as establishing paternity? And you think the agency would not have all the information needed to establish citizenship at that point? You do not need the father to do nada. Good luck seeking work around solutions for a situation where legally established processes exist, just like Nigerians always do.

okuta007:



my brother, thanks for your contribution and I am grateful for your passion and advise on this matter. To answer your question, I live in the US and I have lived here for decades and I am fully aware of all you said here. Honestly I wish we didn't get to this point and that, all is good and happy with my cousin and her child in a sweet matrimonial home. But such is life, it is not always as we hope for it.

However, while your advise all looks good on paper, kindly permit me to play the devil's advocate - to justify the reason why I did not suggest the "child support" route with my cousin.

1. The US state department tells every American citizen to obey the local laws of the country they are travelling to, because America will never impose her will on any sovereign nation. This relates first, to the ownership of the child. In the Nigerian constitution, the child of an unmarried couple belongs to the man, because Nigeria and most African countries are patrilineal societies. In this case, the US based guy did not marry my cousin so he has the right to take that child away from my cousin without sweating it in the courts and give that child to his family in Nigeria. Where will that leave my cousin?

2. The child today is not a US citizen, because she has not been registered or reported as CRBA, so the child does not even have a social security number - so how will that work out? we all know that without a social security identification, no person, (even those living in the US) can be taxed. Child support is a form of family tax and that is an uphill task

3. In this case, child support does not apply because the guy has been supporting the child, according to what my cousin said - even when she was pregnant, he sends her money monthly. So how do you convince a child support adjudicator that that man does not mean well for my cousin and the child?

4. $100 may not be a whole lot in the US, BUT there are (poor) people in the US based on their income and how many women they have to support who pay exactly $100 or even less as child support. For instance, If a guy makes minimum wage or say $1,400 a month and has 2 kids from 2 women, he can not pay more that 15% of his entire wages for both kids - that is $105 EACH for both kids (which is a total of $210) because he has his bills to pay and he has to feed himself. What about IF this guy is a low wage earner and he has another kid here in the US or even in Nigeria?

5. Another thing to consider is the "standard of living index" in every country. Nigeria's official minimum wage is N30,000 and we all know that is not the reality on ground, as most people earn way below that in both private and public sector. Here on Nairaland the other day, someone posted that a recruit in the armed forces earns N12,000 a month! While she is complaining of $100 not being enough, it is almost twice the minimum wage of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. So how can she make a successful case for that in the courts? The other day Chevron workers were demonstrating they do not earn enough, in naira, as compared to their colleagues in America because they are being paid based on the Nigerian standard of living index - that is an American company in Nigeria! Even the US consulate does not pay their Nigerian security guards up to $7.25 (an hour) that will easily be $1,160 which is N661,200 a month - you know why? because they know what "standard of living index" in every country means. So I can not say the US based guy is not trying considering the Nigerian standards because no average guy in the US pays the minimum wage as child support to any baby mama. So I can only hope the guy helps more if he has extra, not trying to "ENFORCE" anything on him since he is supporting already.

6. Lets even consider that such "child support" petition is granted, against the odds I stated above, do you realize that Child support comes with certain obligations? In the US, it is called visitation rights and all that and most times it is done weekly or bi-weekly depending on the agreement. What if the guy says, since my cousin has made him pay through legal means, and he wants to punish my cousin, requests that my cousin should facilitate the child visiting his family house in Lagos every weekend from Auchi - so his own representatives in Nigeria can see the child for one day every week. How much in cash will that cost my cousin? and with the way insecurity is everywhere in Nigeria, will she be able to make that trip without encountering road hazard (robberies, kidnaping, etc) like most Nigerians experience? is it really worth it?

7. Talking about insecurity, lets even assume against all odds stated above, she is awarded child support, with the way Nigeria is today, human life is worth nothing. What if the guy starts complaining to his extended family in Nigeria that my cousin has used the law to take all his money he is earning and its like he is working for her. Hmmmm, even if the man does not intend harm, you think some of his overzealous and evil relatives will spare my cousin? what if they do the unthinkable? have you considered that? Is the child support worth that? or the people awarding her the child support will award her security too? hmmm - my brother, I considered all that before - that was why I did not open a thread about "how to collect child support in Nigeria" BUT a thread on "how or IF to talk the guy about increasing the money a bit"

8. My cousin's child can not get a US passport based on emotions (let us assume the guy is even a US citizen). There are laid down rules to a child born overseas getting US citizenship and the US parent of that child, in this case the man - will have to tender a host of supporting documents when called upon. What if my cousin decides to play dirty with the child support thing and the man refuse to assist in the process of extending citizenship to their daughter? Then the child becomes one of the millions of kids born by western parents who can not lay claim to western citizenship. IF you are familiar with the coastal areas of the Niger Delta, you will see a lot of mixed race kids whose fathers worked in the ships and impregnated their mothers. How many of them have the citizenship of their dad's country today? You know why? because their dads probably did not pursue it. I do not want that for my cousin. The ones I know personally do not have foreign citizenship and they have not received a dime from their father since they were born. Many have not even seen their father since they were born and they are now adults.

9. The child getting a US passport (assuming all odds favor her) is not a privilege that will extend to my cousin. Why, because even illegal aliens on US soil who gave birth to US citizens, still get deported - in some cases, the (US) kids may have to follow them IF they insist they want their kids with them until the child gets to 18 and can fend for themselves then they return to the US because they are US citizens by birth and then when they are buoyant financially can petition to bring their parents with them. My cousin can not benefit in this regard IF he gets confrontational with the guy - because being a parent of a US citizen (in this case a minor) does not guarantee automatic immigration benefits

10. Lastly, the child in question is female. Will it be proper to alienate her father when we know in the African society when that child gets to age of marriage, she will need the father to play an important role in her life?

So my brother - your advise looks so good on paper and I am grateful for it, but one needs to apply wisdom.

Thank you

You have raised some good counterpoints, but with lots of misconceptions The answers to all your points are already well established in law, even in Nigeria. You are equating cultural practices with law and this is not so. First of all your statement "In the Nigerian constitution, the child of an unmarried couple belongs to the man, because Nigeria and most African countries are patrilineal societies. This is so not true. This is a cultural practice and not the law. This is what the Nigerian law states: At common law, a mother has right to the custody of a child born outside wedlock to the exclusion of the natural father of the child. For a father to be awarded custody at common law, he must sufficiently establish that the mother is unfit. Under customary law, as it is applicable in some part of Nigeria, if a woman has a child by a man to whom she is not married, custody of the child is deemed to be exclusive to the father or the mother, and this is so even if the child has been acknowledged by the Father. Note, both parents have exclusive rights to the child not just the Father. Either will have to win in court to get sole custody. That is the law. In addition, there are no extended family rights applicable by law. This is important for another point you raised. There is a prominent Nigerian case that happened in 2003 that touched on a lot of these issues....Okoli V. Okoli (2003) 8 NWLR (PT. 823) 565 @ 580

Second, - "In this case, child support does not apply because the guy has been supporting the child" .... So not true. Side agreements are not recognized by the courts/support agency. It has to be established by the law. This is a common mistake that fathers make in the US thinking that buying clothes, dropping money and food equates to legally mandated child support.

Third, you mentioned visitation rights. "What if the guy says, since my cousin has made him pay through legal means, and he wants to punish my cousin, requests that my cousin should facilitate the child visiting his family house in Lagos every weekend from Auchi - so his own representatives in Nigeria can see the child for one day every week." As I mentioned above, extended family do not have visitation rights or any rights whatsoever under the law. Only the father has the right to see the child. In addition, it is the burden of the one with rights to facilitate visiting the child and the one with custody only has to make the child available, nothing more. And child support payments are for support of the child not facilitating visitation. All of these are well established by law.

Let me just say this. It appears the man is willing to support the child. The question is how much should he send? This is exactly what the agency/courts will determine. I know of the case of a very prominent Nigerian family with a son in Texas that went through this ordeal a few years ago so don't think its impossible. I also learnt of three other other cases in progress after this, 2 involving Nigerians and one with a Ghanaian man. The Nigerian son in Texas impregnated a girl in Nigeria and was sending sporadic paltry amounts of money for support while posting face book pics living the good life and pictures of a new house he was building for his parents in the village. The girl filed for child support with the help of a legal aid attorney and was granted. The man ignored the support order and did not have any W2 wages to garnish being a business man. When the arrears exceeded I think $2,500, the state agency applied to the DMV and his drivers license was suspended, then to the US State Department and his Passport was withdrawn. He couldn't travel outside of the US. This got his attention and he begged the girl to withdraw. Na lie o, the girl no gree. He had to pay up and is still paying.
Finally, the child (girl or boy) will be granted citizenship based on the establishment of DNA evidence after registering the birth. Fathers consent or not. This is done all the time. Your cousin will benefit from this when the child becomes 21 years and can file for her Mum... express GreenCard then citizenship after 3 years, chikena!

okuta007:
Early 2018, I visited Nigeria from the US and decided to visit my Uncle and his family at Auchi. On getting there, I met one guy who came to see my cousin and He introduced himself as Florida based IT expert - I asked my cousin jokingly when we got talking - "hope this guy is not just trying to play you, is he serious on marriage or he is just dating?" - because I can tell he is a play boy from his behavior. My cousin swiped at me - abeg bros, no put bad mouth... abi you no want make me too come America - I was like wow... no vex ooo - we laughed but I know that is what was going through her mind- so I didnt want to be seen as enemy of progress, so I let her be.

Fast forward, late in 2018 - at Christmas she gave birth in Nigeria and I called to congratulate her on the delivery of her baby daughter and asked her to let me know when she arrives the US so I can come visit her, and that was when she opened up to me that the guy is not serious about marriage or taking her to the US - HE just made her pregnant, that' s all - I managed my response well so she wont say I am the wizard causing her bad luck - she claims the guy sent her money monthly some 30-40k for her upkeep but doubts he will marry her - i told her to keep the faith and pray and I encouraged her

But the reason for this thread is what happened over the weekend, my cousin told me over the phone that this dude visited Nigeria last year, brought things for her and their 3 year old daughter but wont even visit my Uncle's house. He just came, did a DNA on their daughter and after seeing her a few times (no love making or outing) - he returned back to the US... and when he got to the US - he told her he wont marry her bla bla bla - but will take care of the child and he started sending her $100 a month - an upgrade from the 40K Naira he sends for their daughter. I sympathized with her and honestly I saw this coming from the things I heard from other family members regarding this guy but I just hoped it wont materialize


From the look of things - she obviously is having communication issues with the guy but she appealed to me - to plead with the guy that N55K ($100) is not enough to care for the child monthly -- and that because we both live in America he will feel ashamed and increase the money - IF I call him to speak to him regarding the matter - hmmmmm

she said that the guy said that is all he can be sending to her ($100 monthly) - Now my cousin works as secretary in a private company in Auchi and thats all i know about her means of livelihood although she lives with her grand mom - (maternal) in the same Auchi - she claims to be making minimum wage so I figured that could be N30K monthly

My question is .. As a man, is it proper to tell a fellow man that the money ($100) he sends to take care of his daughter monthly is not enough?

And BECAUSE of the way she talked to me like I was jealous of her relationship in 2018, wont it be wise I just steer clear ? If I do steer clear and not talk to the guy about it, will she not conclude I dont mean well for her ?

My Uncle is GOOD guy and I want to help but I sincerely dont know what to do - and I really do not want any stress too

Please honest and sincere advise

Bros, you sure say you dey US so, as you dey ask this kind simple question? Is very basic na. No be the man go dictate wetin he go pay na. Don’t contact him directly. Help her file at his states child support agency. They will determine how much he should pay and garnish his wages and send her the money directly until the child is 18. This will also establish the child’s citizenship and the child can get a US passport whether the father likes or not. US no dey play with deadbeat parents.

Go to this website and read up:

https://www.acf.hhs.gov/css/faq/frequently-asked-questions-about-international-cases#q11

Q11. How can I get child support from a person in the U.S. if I do not live in a Hague Convention country or a Foreign Reciprocating Country? Collapse
First, check to see if your country of residence has state-level reciprocity with the U.S. state where the person owing support lives. To find this out, contact the child support agency in your country. Or, you can check on OCSE's Intergovernmental Reference Guide. From the State drop-down, select your state and press "GO", then from the "Program Category" drop-down, select “C. Reciprocity” to see which countries that state has child support reciprocity with. If your country has state-level reciprocity with the state, contact the child support agency in your country for assistance.

If your country does not have federal or state-level reciprocity for child support, you may be able to apply directly for services with the child support agency in the U.S. state where the person owing support lives. Contact the state's child support agency to find out if they can provide services. You can find a state’s child support website and general contact information on our interactive map. From the map, click on the state. There will also be a link to the state’s website.

You do not need to be a U.S. citizen, or be living in the United States, to contact a U.S. state child support agency and ask for services.